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 REIT V2, Real Estate Investment Trust

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wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(thenightcrusader @ Aug 4 2011, 08:13 AM)
congratulations on thinking of investment the moment u r deriving a source of income. before you start, it's recommended to  have at least 6 months worth of emergency funds though. now on to your questions, reits distributes dividends four (4) times a year, meaning every quarter. now bursa 1 lot=100 units and no longer 1000 units hence making it more affordable since RM1=1lot=100 units=RM100 on your side. look at accumulating small numbers at a consistent basis. more units=more dividends and capital appreciation potential. generally yield from reits are in 6-8% region which is about 2x the FD rate.
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Er.. some REITs distribute dividends once or twice a year. tongue.gif
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(goo5257 @ Aug 4 2011, 11:57 AM)
I always think to invest instead of putting money in bank to let them invest. Not a wise choice though.  biggrin.gif  By the way, what is the minimum amount to buy the reits so that the dividend is far enough to cover for the broker's fee. I dun want to buy separately. I want to buy it in one shot so that wont charged for each transaction. Let say I buy RM 5k reits, can estimate roughly how much I can earn from that? Your 6-8% yield is yearly? It means that I can earn RM 5k x 0.06 = RM 300 per year?
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DY% mentioned is gross. Thus, if say TWRREIT is supposedly paying 8%DY at current price, then U better calculate it as
8%*(100%-10%tax on dividend distributed) to get a closer net DY%.

Cost of purchase is about 0.55% (one way), assuming U are buying at least $3K worth, when buying stocks (investing in REITs are investing in their common stocks). Do the maths tongue.gif.
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(cwhong @ Aug 4 2011, 05:01 PM)
alaqar volume very big for today ...... unload by big player i guess nod.gif
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but price drop only.. 3 Cents cry.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 4 2011, 05:16 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Aug 4 2011, 05:17 PM)
is alaqar worth investing? been seeing research papers by investment banks and not many of them recommend alaqar. most will recommend axreit, arreit, sunreit and cmmt.

what's your say?
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I WANT to buy in for my own reasonings (asset allocation, target type of REITs, DY%, D/E, ROTA, etc.) , but not at current market price tongue.gif

Analysts? if they be so changgih (all of them lar, some are dang good), they'll be filthy rich liao + they'll be keeping quiet about their personal research brows.gif Want competition for them stocks meh.
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(jutamind @ Aug 4 2011, 05:45 PM)
so what's the price ur targeting? any idea how to find out a good price for REIT? i dont think the normal ratios for stock evaluation is suitable for REIT, like ROE, DE ratio etc.

what sort of asset allocation for REIT are u talking about? is it about diversification on different kind of REIT, eg retail REIT, commercial REIT, industrial REIT etc?
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Price targeting? Bro, I'm no analyst, thus dont want to publish my targets lar. No brownie points blush.gif

U can use whatever evaluation U like to find your target price - i chose mine for my own reasoning tongue.gif
Valuation and "of value" is a very personal thing - thus, for example to me, i wouldn't buy any REITs if its expected GROSS DY% is less than 7% UNLESS it's historical growth factor is great AND its D/E aint too leveraged yet. Another chap may accept less / more than gross DY7% based on other factors.

Normal ratios for stock evaluation isn't suitable?
Very simple example to my simple logic (i'm a simple fler)
eg.1 - can any business be solid if it's D/E is much higher (comparatively among its peers)? a stumble here, a hiccup there and kabloey.
eg. 2 - can any biz be worth your time if its ROE (or in the case of REITs, ROTA) is like 4% to 5% only, for the past few years?
Can ar? Ok - go ahead and buy. I'd just chose another lor, that's the beauty of being an investor and not tied to a company. Different strokes for different folks, thank gawd - else there'll be too dang much competition for our "valued stuff" tongue.gif

IMHO, the basics will always be "the basics". I still need them, then add spices (PEG, ROE/ROTA, etc.) & garnishing (minimum gross DY%, etc.) , depending on what's my aim of the investment (or trade if not REITs).

Just a thought - ever worked in the engineering or IT industry before? Most of the "new stuff" have the same basics and these are supposedly cutting-edge tech brows.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 4 2011, 06:25 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(whizzer @ Aug 4 2011, 05:53 PM)
Someone mentioned REIT is more about dividend & not buy & sell like stocks. So if you want for a good price to buy, maybe you can wait a long time tongue.gif

"Good" price only happen if REIT cannot get lease or big funds exiting or some other negative reason. However, at that time you also be breaking into cold sweat deciding on whether you want to click on BUY button.  biggrin.gif

Sometimes analyst report are more opinion than facts. So go through the report & filter what you need then decide.
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I'm willing to wait - bad stuff sure to happen within a 5 year period cycle. Hheheh - then it's either small or big sale! Woohoo!

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 4 2011, 06:25 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Aug 4 2011, 06:25 PM)
when we mention a good price in this thread, I believe it is only when something drifts near to historical supports, or drifts below average price. as you might be aware, reits here trend according to current and perceived future EPS/DPU growth. Have a look at Axreit, Arreit, and compare with Atrium. you'll understand, so when it misprices itself then there might be an arbitrage opportunity.

the only 2 outliers in the MREIT market, from my POV is Sunreit & CMMT, because these two got a lot of retailer marketing & interest, hence a higher premium, higher capital gain, but lower dividend yield.

of course, value is very subjective. but if you want REITs cheap, you must be praying for an earthquake or massive floods or the last one, a simultaneous crash in the 3 markets, industrial, retail, office props giving a massive devaluation in rental prices... touch wood tongue.gif
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Those with $ammo$ stored + dry powder will DEFINITELY touch and bang wood - for it to happen! drool.gif
wongmunkeong
post Aug 4 2011, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Aug 4 2011, 08:21 PM)
Of course, I have tried this too, but the problems start when that 'Shopping Day' never comes, and I start to feel that I am losing out on opportunity cost, and missing out on the dividends that I could have earned, on the coupons that I could picked-up, or the premiums I cold have collected... or when it comes to properties, on the rentals I could have collected from my tenants had I taken the plunge, even if at a premium price.

So long as we are able to hold, and the investment is sound and not toxic, I stand on the belief that anytime is a good time to buy.

One should be able to invest in any market conditions.
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Agreed - it depends on which vehicles (bonds, stocks exREITs, REITs, properties, metals, MM) and for what (income, cap gains via value or growth, trade, etc.). Still gotta "wait" for the right triggers / personal entry rules mar right? Touch wood, touch wood tongue.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 4 2011, 08:39 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 5 2011, 07:03 AM

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QUOTE(goo5257 @ Aug 4 2011, 09:32 PM)
I do not understand your equation. You mention that YD  8%. Then calculate to get net YD %?

If dividend distributed is in cent or percentage?I confuse ade...
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Assuming that most people say DY%, they mean gross Dividend Yield:

gross DY% = dividend yield based on the price paid BEFORE tax

To get the "$ in pocket" version of that, please remove 10% tax to get net DY%


Hm.. i thought i did state gross DY% and net DY% in my earlier posting. Waitaminit.. i did! Bro - English lar, read lar. Spoon feed meh doh.gif

earlier's posting:
DY% mentioned is gross. Thus, if say TWRREIT is supposedly paying 8%DY at current price, then U better calculate it as
8%*(100%-10%tax on dividend distributed) to get a closer net DY%.

Cost of purchase is about 0.55% (one way), assuming U are buying at least $3K worth, when buying stocks (investing in REITs are investing in their common stocks). Do the maths

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 5 2011, 07:06 AM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 5 2011, 08:49 AM

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QUOTE(goo5257 @ Aug 5 2011, 08:24 AM)
Lol...Sry bro...But I did read that. What I mean here is I do not understand your equation.

Let's say TWRREIT stock price is RM 1.09.

DY = RM 1.09 * 8% = RM 0.0872

If I got 3k amount of stock, RM 3k/RM1.09 = around 2.7k unit.

The dividend I got is RM 0.0872 * 2.7 k = RM 235.44 each year

This is how I calculate without deduct anything yet. Is it correct?
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So des kah. Since DY% is already a % of the current price and assuming it's the current price U buy in:
IF price bought in $1.09
AND gross DY8% at that price
AND U bought in with $3,000 at the above time
Gross DY expected = $3,000 * 8%
Net DY expected = $3,000 * 8% *(100% -10% tax)

Note that your calculation was based on Units and mine was based on transaction $. I'm assuming U are calculating EXPECTED gross & net DY. Of course when U really receive the $, U then calculate yr actual DY% using:
a. Simple net DY%: Dividend Received / Total Cost of Transaction

b.DY% pa:
( (Dividend Received + Total Cost of Transaction) / Total Cost of Transaction )
^( 1 / ( (Current Date -Purchase Date)/364.25) )
-1
tongue.gif Derived from the ever handy S = P *(1+%)^years

Added on August 5, 2011, 11:18 am
QUOTE(Hansel @ Aug 5 2011, 01:26 AM)
Certainoy, in other words, need to be fully-satisfied that it is a viable entry point to go for, but what I am trying to say is not to take too long.  smile.gif
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Hmm - seems like knocking on wood worked! BSDREIT and ARREIT down to my target price this morning bwhahaahah rclxms.gif UNFORTUNATELY several other counters also down tongue.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 5 2011, 12:10 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 5 2011, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(goo5257 @ Aug 5 2011, 10:11 PM)
Thank for your explanation. Much clearer now. I have a question. If I buy at stock price 1.09, if it increase to 1.50. I sold it out. Assume I buy 1000 units. So, I earn 1.50*1k - 1.09*1k = RM 410 without deduct transaction fees. Is it correct? So it works exactly like stock also? But Reits just a much steady compare to stock. Also, the DY is much higher as well? Other advantages?
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You're spot on with the profits. REITs are just a type of stocks leh - traded on the same market and method biggrin.gif

+DY% is USUALLY higher (some are lousy like normal stocks')
+thus prices are usually steadier
-thus unfortunately prices are usually steadier, it doesnt fall and rise as much as normal stocks

IMHO - the flux in normal stocks' price is what gets the gold, whereas the DY% in REITs keeps U nourished biggrin.gif
If stocks' price dont flux, how to buy low & sell high?

FYI - from end 2008 / early 2009 after the recent 40%+ KLCI crash,
my REITs are making me only 20%+pa
VS
normal stocks like LPI & PBank which is making me 30%+pa to 50%+pa
all held till now - total returns (cap growth, splits, etc + dividends received)

wongmunkeong
post Aug 7 2011, 07:17 AM

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QUOTE(mIssfROGY @ Aug 7 2011, 01:22 AM)
I also wish the price wont change much but its traded like shares, it can go wayyyyy down too
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Use-less statistics of the day:
end 2008 early 2009 (bottom-ish of the crash & stablized), TWRREIT was at $0.85 to $0.90 with gross DY% of 10% (as shown on HLeB's DY% column)
VS
now 2011 TWRREIT last done on last Fri DJ crash was at $1.28 with gross DY% of 8% (as shown on HLeB's DY% column)

a. Seeing the $, whoa.. can drop like 33%+, calculated ($1.28 -$0.85)/$1.28

b. (a.) is unfair view
TWRREIT's highest was $1.43 before the 2008 crash and $0.83 at the bottom, thus taking the peak & bottom, that's 41%+ drop

c. A different view would be that at the bottom-mish, gross DY% was 10%-11%ish.
Now at a "peak" (dunno how high it can go yar), its gross DY% is 8%ish, still looks good to me (to hold) biggrin.gif

Now where's the fler who was asking ppl to sell off office REITs, quick lar, crumble the price ASAP. Dumbass value investor here wants to buy in at right price here tongue.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 7 2011, 07:19 AM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 7 2011, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 7 2011, 09:20 AM)
The office space concern is real.
As supply pace is faster than demand at least for the near future.

If we see office reit registered lower income, then we can see office related reit price goes lower, to match the expectation yield.

The 2008 crash, was because the fear of severe recession might result in lease cannot be renewed, refinance cost become expensive or difficult to be obtained.
There were reit (particularly overseas) especially those high leveraged one, unable to refinance resulted reit need to fire-sale their asset during the wrong time.

Reit is not a foolproof investment, there are risks involved as well.
Just because we saw reit recover in price and not having lease problem issue, despite the recession, we cannot conclude every reit will surely plunge and recover back.
There were reit that unable to attract tenants, or having difficulty in rental as well, not so good properties in the portfolio resulted dismay income.

I would say, don't be over-confidence.
Every reit performance is not the same. Every properties is not the same. Some properties are selling like hot cake, and tenants easy to find and can good yield.
Some properties may be sitting there, little people interested.
So it is better to evaluate the reit underlying portfolio properties, their location etc.

As even office space may face supply>demand, it doesn't mean all office space rental/lease is totally bad. There are still location people prefer and highly demanded.
Same with boom time, there are still properties that perform not so good during good time.
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Agreed! Thus i said i'd pickup at the right price tongue.gif
Everything has a right price and if it's not at a right price, dont lar buy in. Heck, even things like PBank and Nestle - good Co & managed well, but at the wrong price, waffor?

I'm just a simpleton - buy MORE during sales and buy just ngam ngam if ok price, and avoid like the plaque when it's way too expensive. Just like groceries shopping - stockup cow cow during sales AND if it can be kept properly AND it's useful. Else ignore or buy just enough. I'm a "domesticated guy" - what to do bwhahaha.

Quick quick - ask me which airconditioner, washing machine and vacuum cleaner has the best bang for the buck (ie. does the best it suppose to do at the best price of purchase & usage) tongue.gif

Note - i'm just totally cheesed off by the fler making a blanket statement about office REITs AND telling people to sell off. Dude - U have crystal balls ar? If not, dont lar make blanket statements like that - IF THEN ELSE statements good, BUY BUY BUY SELL SELL SELL with general blanket statement is not right. In addition, apparently if there's a sell off, it's not of value to people like me? Again - mana itu logic? At what price point mar, sheesh. doh.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 7 2011, 09:40 AM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 9 2011, 07:40 AM

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QUOTE(echoesian @ Aug 8 2011, 10:27 PM)
Is this a good time to buy an REIT stock?
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It depends whether U are willing to hold the REITs for DY of 7% ish or not lor - assuming that REIT U buy at current price = gross DY 7%+ to 8%. If U ok with that, dont bother about falling price lar.
If fall good mar, buy more coz its DY should be higher biggrin.gif
The only Q would then be, when to buy more brows.gif

Best bang for value is at the bottom but who in the world has crystal balls to call a bottom OR a top?
wongmunkeong
post Aug 9 2011, 01:01 PM

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QUOTE(teehk_tee @ Aug 9 2011, 12:44 PM)
gone over some data and updated some REIT yields based on mreit.reitdata.com

AMFIRST - 8.591%
ATRIUM - 8.350%
ARREIT - 8.227%
TOWER - 8.175%
HEKTAR - 7.923%
QCAP - 7.842%
UOAREIT - 7.535%
STAREIT - 7.483%
AXREIT - 7.229%
CMMT - 6.341%
SUNREIT - 6.296%
ALAQAR - 6.054%

smile.gif
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dammit - fall fall! ALAQAR & SUNREIT! go baby go (knocking on wood AGAIN, hey it worked the 1st time tongue.gif)

Sorry ar - pardon this barbarian if U guys are holding those 2 REITs notworthy.gif
wongmunkeong
post Aug 9 2011, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(Bonescythe @ Aug 9 2011, 01:04 PM)
Economy down, no work, office close, more office place for rent.

A lot of office lots projects coming out.. A lot of office place for rent.

So in the end. A lot of office place for rent.

Rental slash.. Cheap cheap also come..

REITs got threaten already...

Dividend fall..

Lol.. I am just joking.. smile.gif Even though economy downturn, there are contracts bind with the retailers on shop rental. So won't knn so fast.

Market down, good time for REITS really. smile.gif
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Truly possible. However if you're holding plantation REITs and also things like ARREIT at sales price (college/Uni is one big customer wor), should last the winds of change mar. Then as office glut knocks down office REITs prices and things stablizes, can go peck on it for some $ lor hehe. It depends when only right? That's the cycle of the market and life.

I'm looking to move into hospital and shopping REITs, currently ZERO (ignoring ARREIT's here/there a bit). All the while DY% tak shiok lar. Waiting for nice sales price for good DY%. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Aug 9 2011, 01:22 PM
wongmunkeong
post Aug 9 2011, 01:37 PM

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QUOTE(Bonescythe @ Aug 9 2011, 01:24 PM)
Sunreit is stable. Semua sendiri punya kang tau.. But yield tak boleh la
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DY% skrang tak boleh, pi lepas bomb kabloey! + fear + blood, most probably boleh. M'sia boleh mar tongue.gif

Stabil tak guna bang, i mau returns $ and higher than 6% else tak de feel lar, cam awet yg i tak boleh under-stand lor blush.gif
wongmunkeong
post Aug 10 2011, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(kabyss87 @ Aug 10 2011, 10:00 AM)
Thx for the replies sifus  biggrin.gif

With my recent windfall of RM1k, i shall invest in one of these counters..

Arreit Currently caught my attention for now... i'd guess i'll go for 1 counter 1st..  rclxms.gif
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Not to burst yr bubble Bro - RM1K transaction isn't really a viable sizing due the among of brokerage & cost as a % on the $1K. Minimum economic order quantity for online using HLeB is >= $2,858 to achieve 0.42% brokerage charges.

Just sharing to help manage cost & sizing ya. It's worth the % if U think it's worth it, k tongue.gif. No right/wrong

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