Some dogs will actually manage to undo the debarking operation of they are constant barkers. If they continue to try and bark directly after surgery they can regrow the vocal chords and have the same volume back.
Although i don't see debarking operation as being as cruel as some other methods (such as shock/spray collars or muzzles that physically affect or limit the dog each time they try to bark causing repeated trauma rather than a one time ordeal) it is a very extreme and painful solution.

Does your dog only bark when you go out? or is he noisy a lot of the time? There are other ways to keep him quiet that are not cruel in any way but can take some time to show any results (they are all training based). You can also discuss your plans with your neighbors to see if they will be willing to wait a while for the training to take effect.

If your dog only barks when you are away it is most likely a sign of separation anxiety which can be cured or at least handled in most cases. In this case you could also put your dog in a doggy day care center while you are out.

However if you are really busy and spend a lot of time away from the house, the kindest thing for your dog might be to find her a new home where there are people around to spend more time with her. Single dog households should be spending at least 2hours a day with their dog in order to keep them happy and mentally healthy.

So just to clarify things a little here as people seem to be getting carried away.
Dogs primarily rely on scent (pheromones) and body language to communicate, not their voice. It would be a lot more traumatic for a human to loose their voice as it is our primary communication method.

A dog (or even group of dogs) left to their ways will not find it any harder to communicate with a dog whether he has a voice or not, if you watch your dogs closely you will also be able to pick up on the body language they use to converse with one another.
However if you 'pity' a dog for any reason, pamper them when you think they are sick or feel sorry for them when something bad happens, the only thing you are teaching them is fear and panic. Your dog looks up to you as a leader and as that leader you should not be phased by anything unless it really is a major life threatening event (meaning its ok to panic and run to your dog if they are about to get run over, but not if they slip slightly and are obviously not seriously hurt).

In this situation, if you make a big deal out of your dog not being able to bark, they (and all the other dogs around) will see it as a big deal. If you act like everything is perfectly normal and nothing has changed, they will all act as if nothing has happened as well.

I said "getting carried away" because, as with many such controversial subjects, people were getting on board to 'no debarking' band wagon seemingly without understanding exactly what is involved in the procedure as well as what the alternatives are (shock collars, muzzles etc.). Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but it is important to look at the real facts before deciding how you feel.
Also if you base your feeling on debarking on your own reliance on your vocal chords then you should also be against the practices of spay/nutering as i know most male humans would be mortified at the thought of having their balls removed at the age of 1year old .

So here is a couple of websites i found about the debarking procedure and the arguments for and against:
http://www.squidoo.com/dog-debarking
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-debarking-a-dog.htm - A lot of people's own experiences with debarking
http://information.i-love-dogs.com/dog-articles/dog-miscellaneous/3727-Overview-The-Debarking-Debate.html ://http://information.i-love-dogs.com/...ng-Debate.html ://http://information.i-love-dogs.com/...ng-Debate.html - For/Against debarking arguments



You don't need to be an expert in canine body language. I'm sure all dog owners can tell you when their dog is happy/sad/feeling ill/angry. They might not be able to explain exactly how they know but what they are doing is picking up on their dog's body language, the same way we can tell what a person we know well is feeling when they walk in a room before they say a word.
Also after the debarking process a dog is not completely silent as the name suggests. Generally the noise the dog makes will simply be muted somewhat, if you are in the same room as them you will still be able to hear if they wish to 'talk' to you or alert you of something.



Once again, in the majority of cases there will still be a 'bark' left in the dog, just a muted one. Also if you had a pack that already had a reliance on vocal communication, i would not suggest debarking. However in this case we are discussing a one dog household so such complications wouldn't occur even if for some reason the dog ended up with no voice at all.



How did the owners react towards the dog after it was debarked? Also i would hope that in this case the owner would take the advice of training as i suggested and looking at the underlying causes to resolve the issue once her dog's place in her household was once again safe which seems to be something that wasn't done in the situation your psych prof told you.
On another note: I'm sure there are many cases where debarking has caused some kind of negative effect or another, however there are thousands, maybe millions of cases where not debarking has caused a traumatic relocation for a dog, or being put in a pound and worst case the dog gets put to sleep despite being perfectly healthy, happy, lovable dogs (as with so many who go through the shelter/pounds around the world) except for the fact they bark causing the neighbors/housemates/whoever else complained. I personally believe that having an operation and not being able to bark as loudly before is a far better option than any of these.

All in all i agree that debarking is not an optimal solution in most cases (as i have stated in my previous posts) especially if it is not backed up with continued training efforts (as in a lot of cases dogs can fully reverse the effects within 2 years), i would not suggest any unnecessary surgery due to the risks associated with the surgery itself. I also agree that there are many situations where debarking should not be considered an option such as in a household with an already formed dog pack (although in this case i would hope the owner would be experienced enough in training and handling that excessive barking isn't a problem), also an aggressive dog should never be debarked as this turns it into a silent weapon. However taking the situation we are looking at now, with a one dog household that needs a 'quick fix solution' (although it probably could have been prevented by trying to solve the problem before it came to a final warning), debarking is one option that can help nicholas88, not my preferred option but still one that can be considered and so needs to be looked at with regards to the facts as well as the emotional point of view.

This post has been edited by Divas: Mar 7 2010, 09:11 PM

freakfingers12: The method i know of to teach your dog to bark only a couple of times.

1. Teach your dog the command 'speak' or 'bark' by using the command and saying good boy/girl whenever he is barking until he will start barking when he hears the command.

2. Next ask your dog to 'speak' and then after a couple of barks hold their muzzle closed gently (emphasis on the gently) and give a command such as 'enough' or 'stop'. After a few rounds of this give the command 'stop' before reaching for your dogs muzzle to give them an opportunity to respond to the command without your help.

3. Once your dog fully understands both commands you will be able to tell him to start or stop barking whenever you see fit. Also most dogs that get used to hearing the stop command after a couple of barks will start to predict the stop command and stop by themselves and look for a reward (in much the same way a dog who has newly learned a number of commands such as 'down', 'roll over', 'stand', and 'up' will try performing all tricks when asked for just one or sometimes none at all! ).

And there you have it, a dog trained not only to bark once or twice but who can bark and stop barking on command as well.
There are other methods of achieving the same goal, however i personally find this one simple and effective enough.

That is all i wanted to do, is make more people aware that there are 2 sides to the argument. Even if their decision is to be totally anti-debarking after that, at least they have all the facts first. Also to remove any confusion, i was not implying that you needed to see the sites, it is perfectly obvious that you do know what you are talking about, it was for the benefit of others who will hopefully take the time to do a bit of reading about it.

I know it is a weak argument that when you look at it properly is quite flawed in many ways. However on the surface it does make a good point, as would comparing de-barking to tail docking or ear cropping (which many people see as acceptable and not cruel in any way, but could be seen as so because you are removing a dogs right to wag his tail...).


I'm glad we can agree on some things at least . I never meant to start a huge debate, just simply wanted to air the other side of the argument. I would never push someone to debark their dog if there were other solutions because i am strongly against any kind of surgery that is unnecessary (although i am still on the fence about cropping/docking for puppies as it is such an integral part of a lot of breeds looks, and of course 100% for spaying/neutering due to health benefits and stuff).

The only point i was really trying to make is that people should truly understand what something involves before making a judgment on whether it is wrong or right (again this doesn't include you, you obviously have much experience with dogs and have done the research to know what you are talking about).
For someone with my background and theories on dogs i find it insane that you can go into a forum like this and find people screaming and shouting about how it is so cruel an inhumane to perform a surgery on a dog and then tell someone in the next thread that whacking/beating/hitting with newspaper is THE ONLY training method that works.
I think maybe my views on dogs is just very different to a lot of people in Malaysia still which makes my opinions on what is 'more cruel' also very different .

Yep expat here. But i grew up in asia so it isn't such a shock, just saddening. I understand that people are brought up in different ways with different ideas about what is cruel and what isn't but what frustrates me is when people are supplied with the facts and still don't want to try other solutions. When people come to my shop with a dog that is obviously treated badly, i sit them down and discuss what they do and what would be a better way of getting the results they want (if they will even hang around for 5 minutes to see what the problem is). Only about 25% of the people i have talked to show any kind of improvement in the care of their dog (and those are normally the ones who just don't know what to do, not the ones who actually physically harm/torture their dogs).
So that is why i have resorted to sitting on forums, here people are asking for help so chances are they will actually listen to the advice people give and try out new training methods or food types or whatever else it is
(also the dogs on the forum are far better taken care of than a lot of the ones who stroll into my shop every 6 months for a total shave down which helps keep my spirits up ).

You shouldn't feed your dog pizza, burgers or any other human food, especially be aware that dogs commonly have intolerance to onions and garlic both of which are commonly used in a lot of human food. Dogs also commonly develop allergies to corn which is a main ingredient in a lot of bread like products. Dogs are also commonly lactose intolerant, meaning that milk based products can cause them problems,especially later in life when their digestive system is weaker. Finally dogs shouldn't eat products that are fried or use a lot of fat as they have the same issues processing this fat as we do which can lead to obesity problems as well as clogged arteries and heart attacks...
If you don't want to only give your dog kibble, try looking online for some dog safe recipes so you can make a tasty and safe meal for you and your dog.

If you choose to feed your dog things that are bad for them, its your choice, but don't act surprised when you tell people about it on a public forum for pet lovers and someone picks you up on it... Yes all dogs are different, just like all people are different... but dog's digestive tracts are all the same, even if your dog has developed an immunity to the immediate effects of things such as milk and corn, over time they will still wear down your dogs digestive system and lead to more complex problems in later life (a dog's natural life span is estimated at between 15 to 20 years).

Put it this way, I'm a smoker, if someone tells me smoking is bad for me and i turn around and say "I've been smoking for 5 years and i'm still healthy" they would think i was a complete moron who was living in total denial of the fact that i was doing something bad for myself. However if instead i say "I'm aware of the risks and lead an otherwise healthy life, so i'm willing to accept any health related consequences" then i am an informed person who is choosing to do something despite knowing the proven medical risks, its my life and my choice.

If you are aware of the fact that giving junk food to your dog is unhealthy but choose to do it anyway, that's your choice, as long as you are aware of the potential health risks later on in life (heart attack, digestive tract issues, bloat etc) and are willing to bare all responsibility and costs, however arguing that feeding your dog things like milk and junk food isn't potentially bad for their health is just silly, there are many studied done that prove undeniably that they are bad for all dogs and can cause serious health complications (both in the short and long term).