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 Cost of Debark, anyone knows? can they still bark?

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TSnicholas88
post Mar 5 2010, 10:33 PM, updated 16y ago

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As title.
Sashan
post Mar 5 2010, 11:18 PM

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Debarking is actually a very cruel thing to do to a dog. Its a procedure that cuts the dogs vocal cord so they cannot bark, they can make some kind of wheeze. Its illegal in many western countries including UK and Australia, I dont think many vets actually do it here.

Why do you want to debark your dog? Perhaps you could consider training it to bark only once or twice, then stop, and to stop when you tell it to.
chamyk2311
post Mar 5 2010, 11:42 PM

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don't debark ur dog lar. very pity ler
TSnicholas88
post Mar 5 2010, 11:45 PM

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I have no other choice...

Either I have to give her to someone else, or I have to debark.

I'm working and taking part time degree as well.. and my neighbors had give me final warnings, if they still hearing any barking, they will lodge a report..

I was so down today, I came to no other choices!
Sashan
post Mar 6 2010, 12:32 AM

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Well, if you read about it, even a debarked dog can make noise, it just wont be a very loud and proper bark. If the dog is really determined, he can make a loud WHEEZE WHEEZE sort of sound. Your situation kind of sucks at the moment, but performing a cruel surgery on your dog isnt an option.

Try consider training, or even moving, you might regret it later when you see how unnatural your dog sounds
rystic
post Mar 6 2010, 01:20 AM

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please dont debark your dog...
poor him/her >.< iam sure there are other options you can make...
i do think debarking a dog is considered a SIN ><
anyway its your choice...iam just posting to help you not to regret later...
and really really hope that you wont debark your dog from the bottom of my heart x.x
Pennywise
post Mar 6 2010, 09:03 AM

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I believe the cost of debark would be a ticket to hell. I am sorry, no offense but that is an inhuman thing to do. I would suggest training or professional training rather than debarking.
ciohbu
post Mar 6 2010, 09:12 AM

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i think u better giv it away or try to find out the reason why ur dog is barking...

debark a dog is like i take away ur sound and voice from u, u want or not ??


Vinci777
post Mar 6 2010, 09:52 AM

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ya...totally agree with ciohbu...if i take away your sound..how would you feel...many ppl say..."NVM LA...JUST A DOG ONLY"...but they have feelings too...for a dog...no matter how you treat them...they will still always love you

but they give their life to you...its on your hand...you are their owner, you have the responsibility...

why she bark?...because she need attention? or your dog bark for no reason?

give the dog away is the best for her rather than debark...
TUCKY
post Mar 6 2010, 10:27 AM

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about 250. seapark animal clinic.
michael9413
post Mar 6 2010, 11:31 AM

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eh isn't it they have some ultrasonic anti barking things... maybe u can try that.... switch it on when u r not in...
the dog barking day and nite??? u stay in Condo or Apartment ar???
Divas
post Mar 6 2010, 02:06 PM

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Some dogs will actually manage to undo the debarking operation of they are constant barkers. If they continue to try and bark directly after surgery they can regrow the vocal chords and have the same volume back.
Although i don't see debarking operation as being as cruel as some other methods (such as shock/spray collars or muzzles that physically affect or limit the dog each time they try to bark causing repeated trauma rather than a one time ordeal) it is a very extreme and painful solution.

Does your dog only bark when you go out? or is he noisy a lot of the time? There are other ways to keep him quiet that are not cruel in any way but can take some time to show any results (they are all training based). You can also discuss your plans with your neighbors to see if they will be willing to wait a while for the training to take effect.

If your dog only barks when you are away it is most likely a sign of separation anxiety which can be cured or at least handled in most cases. In this case you could also put your dog in a doggy day care center while you are out.

However if you are really busy and spend a lot of time away from the house, the kindest thing for your dog might be to find her a new home where there are people around to spend more time with her. Single dog households should be spending at least 2hours a day with their dog in order to keep them happy and mentally healthy.
TSnicholas88
post Mar 6 2010, 04:35 PM

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After further thinking, I think debark her is very cruel, I'm really tired.. I guess I have to start searching for good owner for her better living..
nissangtir
post Mar 6 2010, 04:36 PM

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Maybe you would like to reconsider. Maybe debarking is an option for you, but it's not his fault to bark. They bark for their own reason, which sometimes we don't see. Sometime, it their way to catch your attention. Since they dont speak, it's the only way for them to communicate. Maybe another way would be sending him to training school
MaxReddevil
post Mar 6 2010, 06:42 PM

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Do not debark your dog. Damn pity leh. My family just adopted a debarked dog. So pity her, cannot bark. Our other 4 dogs thought she was an alien coz she got no sound. She couldn't tell us she wanna go pee, she couldn't tell us she is hungry, she couldn't even tell us when she is playful. She can bark a very coughing kinda sound, which is so pityful.

You may think it's the right choice to do because you are thinking of keeping your dog. But you put yourself in a dog's point of view. If someone comes and cut's your vocal cords, you can't talk. But then as humans, you can write, learn sign language. Can a dog do that? My new dog cannot communicate with our other dogs. It's sad to see a voiceless dog.
byaku-chan
post Mar 6 2010, 07:33 PM

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QUOTE(nicholas88 @ Mar 6 2010, 04:35 PM)
After further thinking, I think debark her is very cruel, I'm really tired.. I guess I have to start searching for good owner for her better living..
*
Really glad you reconsidered your decision to debark your dog. My bf's dog was debarked (by a #@!# breeder who put him up for adoption once he outlived his usefulness as a stud) and hearing his hoarse muted attempts at barking is one of the most pitiful things ever. If you really love your dog you will never forgive yourself once you see the effects of the surgery.

If your current lifestyle really doesn't allow for time to train your dog then the least horrible solution would be to rehome her. Do you know the reason she barks? It's important and a responsible thing to do if you rehome her - her adopter needs to know what to expect and anticipate whether he/she can train out the barking. If she's a compulsive barker because she's easily excited then training her to bark and be quiet on command might work, but if she's barking due to separation anxiety other training methods apply.
Divas
post Mar 6 2010, 09:53 PM

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So just to clarify things a little here as people seem to be getting carried away.
Dogs primarily rely on scent (pheromones) and body language to communicate, not their voice. It would be a lot more traumatic for a human to loose their voice as it is our primary communication method.

A dog (or even group of dogs) left to their ways will not find it any harder to communicate with a dog whether he has a voice or not, if you watch your dogs closely you will also be able to pick up on the body language they use to converse with one another.
However if you 'pity' a dog for any reason, pamper them when you think they are sick or feel sorry for them when something bad happens, the only thing you are teaching them is fear and panic. Your dog looks up to you as a leader and as that leader you should not be phased by anything unless it really is a major life threatening event (meaning its ok to panic and run to your dog if they are about to get run over, but not if they slip slightly and are obviously not seriously hurt).

In this situation, if you make a big deal out of your dog not being able to bark, they (and all the other dogs around) will see it as a big deal. If you act like everything is perfectly normal and nothing has changed, they will all act as if nothing has happened as well.
byaku-chan
post Mar 7 2010, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(Divas @ Mar 6 2010, 09:53 PM)
So just to clarify things a little here as people seem to be getting carried away.
Dogs primarily rely on scent (pheromones) and body language to communicate, not their voice. It would be a lot more traumatic for a human to loose their voice as it is our primary communication method.

A dog (or even group of dogs) left to their ways will not find it any harder to communicate with a dog whether he has a voice or not, if you watch your dogs closely you will also be able to pick up on the body language they use to converse with one another.
However if you 'pity' a dog for any reason, pamper them when you think they are sick or feel sorry for them when something bad happens, the only thing you are teaching them is fear and panic. Your dog looks up to you as a leader and as that leader you should not be phased by anything unless it really is a major life threatening event (meaning its ok to panic and run to your dog if they are about to get run over, but not if they slip slightly and are obviously not seriously hurt).
I don't think the strong feelings people have expressed about debarking in this thread is "getting carried away" at all. From the responses in this thread I'll take a gander that some of us feel strongly about this because as a species that relies so much on vocal communication, it's particularly distressing for us when this channel of communication between our dogs and us is removed. The average dog owner is not an expert on reading canine body language. Where one's dog could previously whimper, howl or bark to indicate anything from distress to pain to plain old boredom, how will a debarked dog tell its owner now if it needs to get a message across? When even an experienced dog handler can get seriously attacked by a vocally intact dog because something conditioned it not to growl in warning before biting - how likely is it that the typical dog owner or even naively clueless puppy will be able to tell a debarked dog that can't growl audibly is about to do some serious damage?

Dogs can get along fine relying on scent and body language with each other - it may be adequate, but it's certainly not ideal. I'd have to disagree with you when you say a dog will not find it any harder to communicate with other dogs whether it has a voice or not. Vocal communication certainly helps - I've seen cluelessly friendly pups get repeatedly nipped by a debarked dog, perhaps they weren't socially experienced enough to read hostile body language and were over-reliant on the growl that never came to warn them! Another case in point: I'm currently fostering a feeble spitz that can't see very well - the alpha dog in my pack makes sure to growl his displeasure when she wanders too near his food bowl - conflict averted. He used to do this with the greedy puppers he coexists with but no longer needed to once they were taught the Stay command lol.

Now on this next point I can't speak for others since I don't know how they actually act in the presence of debarked dogs, but I understand your concern over people visibly demonstrating their distress/pity to their dogs when they can't bark as it's a very human sort of response - I don't do that. My pups which are calm in the face of thunderstorms (one of which had separation anxiety when I first rescued her) were trained based on the behavioural principles you described. All I'm saying is it's a rather sad thing to watch a dog deprived of what should be part of its natural repertoire of behaviours, especially if all other methods haven't been exhausted.

QUOTE(Divas @ Mar 6 2010, 09:53 PM)
In this situation, if you make a big deal out of your dog not being able to bark, they (and all the other dogs around) will see it as a big deal. If you act like everything is perfectly normal and nothing has changed, they will all act as if nothing has happened as well.
*
Hmm well, there are definitely fortunate cases where a debarked dog bounces back post-surgery seemingly unaffected by reduced vocalisation. I mean if you're lucky and the dog is none the wiser about being debarked and yaps happily at a much lower volume, great! But if there's an underlying behavioural issue that isn't addressed (i.e. barking due to anxiety/a way to release stress etc.) wouldn't the neurosis worsen if the dog realises barking doesn't get it the attention it used to? It brings to mind an anecdote a psych professor once told me about a really sad case of a debarked dog that started self-injuring (hurling itself against walls etc.) after it realised barking wasn't "effective" anymore.
luffy4688
post Mar 7 2010, 08:01 PM

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I do not personally support debarking, but nor do I find it inhumane if it's necessary.

If you decide not to rehome the dog, I suggest you try to work out the reason he's barking before even considering debarking him. If it's seperation anxiety, boredom etc, debarking would not solve the problem at all.

If you tell us more about your situation, we might be able to help you more. Information like below might help explain the reason behind his barking more
1. When does he bark(Is it only when you're away etc)
2. Has it been a recent problem? Or since you got him? If so, since when?
3. How much physical/mental stimulation do you give your dog daily?
freakfingers12
post Mar 7 2010, 08:23 PM

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How do you actually train a dog to like just bark twice? I've seen a youtube video, and she said let the dog bark twice, then treat her. Wouldn't treating reward the barking, thus encouraging the dog to bark more when it doesn't get its treat after barking twice?

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