Doing some homework before launching into my next phase.

Being in my thirties is a scary phase when I've been accustomed to sports my whole life. Suddenly, I'm a step slower in football and have to rework my game. I drop back instead of diving in during basketball. When I go shoulder to shoulder with someone, I no longer think to flatten him but worry on how my joints will hold up.

Anyone tried any testosterone boosters and have an experience to share? I'm thinking of giving them a go, might work for the ol' sex drive too since it's no longer at the level it was 10 years ago if the training part fails to perform. If you're under the age of, say 26, these aren't going to do squat for you since your t-levels should still be sky high.

On a closing note, I've gone through 2 tubs of Cytosport's Muscle Milk and 4 tubs of BSN Syntha-6. I still can't put my finger on a noticible difference between the two beyond what is plastered on the tubs. If you've tried both, which do you prefer and why?

Thanks guys.

i wanted to do a group buy for tongkat ali some months ago but there was no interest...

You wrote a great article and then you post a picture.

Look, your picture isn't that great after 3 years of training. being in your thirties is not an excuse, I've seen guys in my gym in the thirties way more muscular and way stronger.

How do you train ? How do you eat ? How much do you sleep ?

these are more important variables, then comparing muscle milk and syntha-6 ? and even considering testosterone boosters

Mike Mahler wrote in his book about manipulating the diet and workout to maximise testosterone & growth hormone production.
You might want to check it out.

4.4 Physical exercise
A great deal of research on the effects of exercise upon the male and female reproductive
system has taken place, and it has been demonstrated that some similarities,
especially with regard to testosterone, exist between the sexes in the physiological
outcomes of physical training when intrinsic gender differences in the endocrine
system are acknowledged (Hackney 1989; Shangold 1984).

Despite their athletic appearance male athletes have lower androgen levels than
untrained men in a resting state. The results of comparative studies suggest significantly
lower free and total testosterone concentrations in chronically (several
years) endurance-trained runners, weight lifters, rowers, cyclists, and swimmers
(Arce and De Souza 1993; Arce et al. 1993; Hackney 2000; Hackney et al. 1988;
Wheeler et al. 1984; 1991). In these studies, testosterone concentrations of trained
subjects were only 60–85% of the age-matched untrained men. It should be noted
that these low testosterone levels are typically not outside the clinical norm, but at
the very low end of this range.

With few exceptions (Elias et al. 1991; 1993;MacConnie et al. 1986) LH and FSH
concentrations and pulsatile frequency-amplitude were unaffected by the training,
even though testosterone was significantly reduced. Elias andWilson (1993) emphasize
that exercise effects on gonadotropic and gonadal hormones are independent
of each other, and it is still uncertain what exact mechanisms cause the change in
testosterone levels.Arce and De Souza (1993) attribute the decline in testosterone to
alterations in hepatic and extrahepatic (muscles, skin) metabolism of testosterone
which cannot be compensated by the athletes’ gonads.

Acute effects of submaximal, prolonged (>60 min) exercise in marathon runners
or cross-country skiers resemble hormonal changes found in endurance-trained
men during resting state. After a 42-km marathon run or cross-country skiing
over a distance of 75 km a highly significant decline in testosterone concentrations
compared to pre-competition baselines was observed which could last as long as
5 days (Cook et al. 1986; Dessypris et al. 1976; Marinelli et al. 1994; Tanaka et al.
1986; Vasankari et al. 1993). After a long distance run (21 kmor marathon), young
sportswomen had significantly increased testosterone levels (Baker et al. 1982; De
Cr´ee et al. 1990; Hale et al. 1983). Even after a 30-min run significantly higher
testosterone levels were observed (Shangold et al. 1981).

Regardless of the kind of sport, maximal or submaximal exercise (5–30 min)
normally results in significant increases of testosterone levels in males independent
of LH and FSH secretion. LH and FSH remain either relatively unchanged
throughout the short exercise period (Sutton et al. 1973; Tegelman et al. 1988) or
show an increase (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; Cumming et al. 1986; Kuoppasalmi et al.
1978).

The apparent disagreement between the effects of submaximal, prolonged exercise
and 5–30 min exercise on testosterone levels in males are explained by the early
(non-LH dependent) rise in testosterone concentrations (Adlercreutz et al. 1976)
and a decreased metabolism of testosterone due to a drop in hepatic blood flow
(Cadoux-Hudson et al. 1985).

As typical as the quick increase in testosterone concentration is the rapid decline
below baseline levels 15–60 minutes later (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; Elias et al. 1993).
The reduction can last up to three days (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; H¨akkinen and
Pakarinen 1993; Kuoppasalmi et al. 1978; Tegelman et al. 1988) and its duration
was found to depend on the intensity of the exercise (H¨akkinen and Pakarinen
1993).

---

Added on January 31, 2010, 3:30 pm8.2.4 The effect of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on body composition
and muscle strength

Intense controversy persisted until recently with respect to the effects of supraphysiologic
doses of androgenic steroids on body composition andmuscle strength
(Bardin 1996; Bross et al. 1998;Wilson 1988).We conducted a placebo-controlled,
double-blind, randomized, clinical trial to separately assess the effects of supraphysiologic
doses of testosterone and resistance exercise on fat-free mass,muscle size and
strength (Bhasin et al. 1996).Healthy men, 19–40 years of age,whowerewithin15%
of their ideal body weight, were randomly assigned to one of four groups: placebo
but no exercise; testosterone but no exercise; placebo plus exercise; and testosterone
plus exercise. Themenreceived 600 mgtestosterone enanthate or placeboweekly for
ten weeks. Serum total and free testosterone levels, measured seven days after each
injection, increased five-fold; these were nadir levels and serum testosterone levels
at other times must have been higher. Serum LH levels were markedly suppressed
in the testosterone-treated but not the placebo-treated men providing additional
evidence of compliance.Men in the exercise groups underwent weight lifting exercises
thrice weekly; the training stimulus was standardized based on the subjects’
initial 1-repetition maximum (1RM) and the sessions were supervised. Fat free
mass by underwater weighing, muscle size by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI),
and muscle strength of the arms and legs in bench press and squat exercises were
measured before and after ten weeks of treatment.

The men given testosterone alone had greater gains in muscle size in the arm
(mean (±SEM) change in triceps area 13.2±3.3 vs.−2.1±2.9%, p<0.05) and leg
(change in quadriceps area 6.5 ± 1.3 vs. −1.0 ± 1.1%, p < 0.05), than those given
placebo injections (Bhasin et al. 1996). Testosterone treatment was also associated
with greater gains in strength in the bench press (increase 10±4 vs. −1±2%,
p<0.05) and squat exercise capacity (increase 19±6 vs. 3±1%, p<0.05)
than placebo injections. Testosterone and exercise, given together, produced greater
increases in fat free mass (+9.5 ± 1.0%) and muscle size (+14.7 ± 3.1% in triceps
area and+14.1±1.3% in quadriceps area) than either placebo or exercise alone, and
greater gains inmuscle strength (+24±3% in bench press strength, and+39±4%
in squat exercise capacity) than either non-exercising group. These results demonstrate
that supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with
strength training, increase fat free mass, muscle size and strength in healthy men
(Bhasin et al. 1996).

Other studies that have utilized supraphysiologic doses of testosterone esters in
healthy volunteers, men with muscle dystrophy (Griggs et al. 1986; 1989), or older
men undergoing hip surgery (Amory et al. 2002) have also demonstrated consistent
gains in lean body mass during testosterone administration (Griggs et al. 1989).
Collectively, these data demonstrate that when dietary intake and exercise stimulus
are controlled, supraphysiologic doses of testosterone produce further increases
in fat free mass and strength in eugonadal men. Strength training may augment
androgen effects on the muscle.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Jan 31 2010, 03:30 PM

Dear ken86,

I believe looking great is relative to the subjects at hand. I might look great compared to myself 3 years ago, but pale in comparison to yourself. Our bodies are after all, a reflection of the lifestyle we lead and judging from your pic, you do invest a lot in keeping yourself fit. I'm happy with where I am now, and I know there are guys in their thirties who are way more muscular than me. Some of them in your gym. I am sure that anyone with enough willpower and determination can transform themselves into more muscular versions of themselves given enough effort.

I've come to terms that my life is a constant balance of commitments and responsibilities, and training to look good isn't at the top. My family is. Quite frankly when we talk about sleep, most of us do not get enough. Last night, I logged 4 hours. Yes, it is that shitty sometimes. But I cannot stop a baby from waking up at 3 am hungry, and I refuse to allow my wife to pick up these things alone because parenthood is about the two of us and I give her enough crap as it is. Me and my family go on pretty healthy diets, that is one aspect that I can control but we do cheat family meals on a weekend dinner.

2nd from the top....isn't training surprisingly. It's my career that puts food on the table, and I'm very happy with it and the trajectory I'm on. But it sometimes involves late nights, long trips overseas where you really have to eat whatever the boss there orders (local custom) and messes with the training routine. If I'm lucky, I get to hit the gym 3-4 times a week. 1-2 times on a sucky week, and sometimes zero.

These are gaps in my life that I cannot change because it covers my family's basic needs and allows us the occasional luxury. But I work around these gaps. If I only hit the gym 1-2 times, I manipulate my training routine. It is never set in stone, I just keep the end objective of my training in sight and everything I do is moving towards that goal. If I end up not being able to train for a whole week, I use that week as a recovery week. Time off for the muscles.

I'm not the best specimen in their thirties you'll find. Not even close. But I am optimizing my life to make sure my free time and my training is efficient for the time spent. And I love the rewards, especially when all but 2 of my colleagues are overweight from eating large meals and sitting down in the office all day. But when it comes to training, I'm not hardcore. I'm not even the regular fella who hogs the squat rack every Tuesday. But I make sure everytime I hit the gym it's a trip through hell and load up on lactic acid for my sick consumption.

Being in my thirties isn't an excuse. Kids isn't an excuse. My job isn't an excuse. But they form the bedrock of my life, and I will be the best that I can be with all these variables permitting.

Dear Iamyuanwu,

Thank you for the reference. I'll try looking it up.


Dear kotmj,

Thank you for posting that article. I learnt something today.

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Jan 31 2010, 03:48 PM

lol you are posting a research on effects of supraphysiologic doses of androgenic steroids on body composition andmuscle strength. You are aware your eurycoma longifolia aka tongkat ali is not even close to being an anabolic steroid/androgen ? Androgen = prohormones, prosteroids, steroids which either a precursor to the hormone testosterone or containts testosterone itself. Saying your eurycoma longifolia that boosts FREE testosterone level to have any effect close to anabolic steroids, you gotta be joking. If tongkat ali does have anabolic effects like steroids, I guess it'd be banned long time ago.

Dear statickinetic,

Investing a lot ? hmm maybe I cooked my meals on the weekends, pack em and read a lot of books on training and nutrition and last i checked my pantry for dietary supplements I only got 1 tub of scivation whey , 1 tub of ON casein and 1 500g canister of creatine. not some fancy overpriced stuffs like syntha-6, muscle milk, etc funny how marketing works eh ?

you say you are not hardcore the next moment you say 'But I make sure everytime I hit the gym it's a trip through hell and load up on lactic acid for my sick consumption.' so i guess your term of hardcore is squatting in the rack ?

Kudos to you for finding a happy medium between your kids(congrats), work and training. I've come to terms that my life is a constant balance of commitments and responsibilities and training to look good and strong seems to be one of them. I am working , pursuing my master's degree in engineering, recently got engaged, financing my first home and car. I may not have a kid but I know what striking a healthy balance between them is. If waking up at 6am to train, if cooking 5 lbs of chicken breast is what it takes to achieve my physique goal, I'd be ready to do it.

I posted my fat loss transformation http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1109615/+1240 while undergoing all the aforementioned tasks. well just maybe I need a kid to really challenge myself.

Shame on you for rubbing down The Wonder Root! It does in fact increase T-levels in much the same way as steroids. I've posted some material on this about half a year ago.

Dear ken86,

Congratulations on your engagement! And if my assumption that the numbers at the end of your name signify the year of your birth as do most, you're being very succesful at such a young age. I never got around to getting my first home until I was about to hit 30, in fact the car and marriage was just before that. A kid wouldn't challenge you any more than you are already, just brings a new perspective in life. Suddenly it's a new responsibility you have, but one you'll love I'm sure of it...regardless of which way the potty gets turned over.

In investing a lot, I actually meant a lot of time and effort. I've read a lot of your forum posts, and you are one of the most informative. All that education doesn't just fall into idle hands. As for hardcore, I personally define it as a state of mind. If you are willing to commit your life to training, then I'd say you're hardcore. For me, I just get by making my chickens count...God knows how many have fled the farm.

By the way, I saw a pic of you doing deadlifts. Isn't that Pushmore?

This post has been edited by statikinetic: Feb 1 2010, 11:35 PM

There was this guy who took tongkatali in this forum & credited them for his improvement, forgot his nick, seems like not active anymore else can query him.

I've been taking 160mg for 2 months, minute by those gwailo standards. Initially there is this feel good feeling but now dun feel it anymore. Maybe need to up the dose.

Where do you get your supplies from?

Pharmacies got, using this Rainforest Herbs brand, got their own website too.

Awesome. I think I'm getting the Tonex, 300g of extract/capsule.

---

Added on February 2, 2010, 11:06 pmSo I was at Guardian KLCC today and bought myself a pack of 30 capsules of Tonex. Swallowed one down at 9 p.m., but now, 2 hours later, there is zero noticeable effect. I was expecting a huge boner. But nothing.

---

Added on February 3, 2010, 4:22 pmTodate I've taken 3 capsules of Tonex. Had a bit of difficulty sleeping last night, but otherwise no boner. I do feel rather energetic today, but it may be a placebo effect.

---

Added on February 4, 2010, 8:44 pmI've taken altogether 6 tablets and I must say they make me more alert. Today, I had a constant boner, but that is normal 48 hours after a workout even without supplementation with the root.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Feb 4 2010, 08:44 PM

It might take a few days to a week to take effect or maybe yr test'e levels are high already, so no effect

I think I've figured it out. The lack of discernible effect is due to the dosage. One capsule of Tonex is the equivalent of 6 grams of tongkat ali chips. The recommended dosage for bodybuilders is 50g of chips/day. No wonder.

I would need to consume 8 capsules/day to reach that dosage.

hye guys..what is t0nex?

I contacted the distributor of Tonex. If you're to buy a box at Guardian's, it'll cost you RM70.40 now with a promotion going on.

If you buy it from the distributor, it'll cost you RM61.60 per box.

If you buy 12 boxes, something called "bonussing" kicks in. You get 2 boxes for free if you buy a dozen, making the price per box RM52.80.

The more boxes you buy, the greater the bonussing. Anyone interested in joining a bulk buy please reply here.

---

Added on February 11, 2010, 6:21 pmhttp://www.rainforestherbs.com/faq.html

---

Added on February 11, 2010, 6:53 pmhttp://www.medicinehunter.com/tongkat_ali.htm

---

Added on March 2, 2010, 11:37 pmHere's a recent infomercial on this topic:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article...sterone_toolbox

This post has been edited by kotmj: Mar 2 2010, 11:37 PM

Recent infomercial on the topic.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article...sterone_toolbox

This post has been edited by kotmj: Mar 2 2010, 11:38 PM

i dont get it
why buy testosterone boosters?
why dont u guys just cut the bull and get the real deal...the AAS
just my 2 cents



This post has been edited by gtoforce: Mar 3 2010, 12:09 AM

Exactly what I was thinking.

because u will get killed


Chow

haha
well, i've never used them honestly but through my amateur research and convictions by some sport m.d.'s, they said it wont kill u unless and until u overdose
and overdosing costs loads of money
hahahaha

i was being sarcastic lah.
and how overdose can ever kill you?


Chow

Testosterone booster??
why not get testosterone itself??? Yes AAS

overdose??
The more the better the result!!!
hahahahhaha

coz if you get the pure one there is a chance its gonna shrink your nuts. and give you b**** tits.

boosters however have a limit to their effectiveness as it will stop working once your body produces enough, making it safer but less results.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Apr 19 2010, 09:23 AM

yes yes true.
lol gyne
but there's things that u can take to prevent it from aromatizing (from test to est) though.

not sure about this booster... i've tried Animal Stak last time, doesnt seems to give me any difference... =\
M-stak is better.

Good news for increasing your testosterone & testes size !
Its doubly good news if u have high cholesterol levels.

http://www.ergo-log.com/olivetest.html

pwahahha
serious shit???
So coconut oil is the best??

the dogma of coconut oil being high in saturated fat is bad has long been researched and proven that it is actually really good for your body and has no correlation with cholesterol level.

I cooked with extra virgin coconut oil due to its high smoke point compared to extra virgin olive oil

good info.
thanks

btw, what about egg yolk??

problem with malaysia is they reuse oil
and thats just sh*t

- mod edit : roid is bad, mmmkay. -


This post has been edited by Syd G: Sep 12 2010, 04:24 AM

Tongkat Ali aka Long Jack has been recently discovered by the western scientists and is used by many bodybuilders. why is Tongkat Ali better than other herbs eg Tribulus?

Tongkat Ali can be used long term, whereas Tribulus has been shown to only stimulate your testosterone production for about 10 to 14 days, then it looses its effectiveness. On the other hand Tongkat Ali continues to raise the bar higher and higher in time as you continue using it. Many doctors now refer to Tongkat Ali as being "herbal HCG" because it forever stimulates your HTPA and never shuts it down like Tribulus or HCG can.

Tongkat Ali is indeed a safe way to boost your testosterone level naturally. clinical studies show that it can help you to gain muscle and decrease your body fat:



FRIM Research on Tongkat Ali

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Added on November 24, 2010, 2:24 amhey would you like to share more of your up to date results with us?



This post has been edited by Berrymore84: Nov 24 2010, 05:16 AM

That's weird. I'm in my 30's and I'm getting stronger, faster and bigger with each workout. Trust me when I say my job is insane too working sometimes 36 hours at a stretch with no sleep and hitting the gym straight after that. At our age and current commitments, supps are a must. Get what you can to maximize recovery asap. Natural foods and the average multivitamin won't do the job. I'm talking about specific PWO recovery formulas, intraworkout bcaa's, nitric oxide preworkout boosters, anything which does the job.

Heard that too much testosterone will result in increased hair loss. No ?

Powder & capsules testosterone booster, which one u guys prefer?

previously i've done a discussion on a patient that being diagnosed with hyperthyroidism after taking DHEA..he was an athlete..
just sharing~

I believe testosterone boosters and anabolic steroids and two different things . Testosterone boosters are stimulants that helps increase ur hormone production while anabolic steroids itself is a synthetic testosterone hormone where the individual directly injects this into his blood stream or consumes it . Similar to dibol and others

This post has been edited by kshen: Apr 25 2014, 02:08 AM

test boosters are often used post steroid cycle for the very fact that they promote natural test reproduction which often has been shut down for a period of time while on a synthetic steroid cycle; clear difference between the two.

there are much more benefits of a healthy test level than more muscles. i'd consider it for the bros past their mid 30s. anywhere before i believe your natural test should be optimal most of the time!

Maybe it just me but the test booster I tried had no noticeable effect except promote deep sleep. Like way overpriced mild sedatives

surely it made you horny a little bit right? lols.

Sadly no it did not boost my libido nor increased my soldiers (suppose to have some quantity of zinc) A couple of raw oysters and the difference is noticeable. I think test boosters r snake oil mixed w some sedatives. Do recommend me some if u feel otherwise.

Anyway if these stuff works then u would have more monster like nattys and more mainstream promo rather then some vague promise and fine prints.

Have somebody tried Testogen supplements? According to naturaltestosteronepills.com, it's very good testosterone booster.

The reason is that if you are under 21 years old, their testosterone levels continue to rise and fluctuate wildly on a daily basis – if the rate may be low a full day and detects that its next levels are too high. Was installed Once your around 21. Try to ensure that you have found at least eight hours of sleep a night (which explains why the blog) and you will see their prices rise significantly. So testosterone booster can help you a lot. Read more here - https://eddrugs2017.com/testosterone-defici...on-go-together/
Many women go from gym to gym, hoping to be comfortable to work. They often worry about wearing the right clothes and shoes or if you are training correctly. They walk and see the big, muscular men lifting weights 200 pounds and feel stupid lift a weight five books, thinking they look like a weakling.


This post has been edited by ben_woker: Oct 20 2017, 07:04 PM

The effects of any testosterone enhancer or booster is almost negligible. At best, it bring up to normal male testosterone level aligned with age.