i wanted to do a group buy for tongkat ali some months ago but there was no interest...

4.4 Physical exercise
A great deal of research on the effects of exercise upon the male and female reproductive
system has taken place, and it has been demonstrated that some similarities,
especially with regard to testosterone, exist between the sexes in the physiological
outcomes of physical training when intrinsic gender differences in the endocrine
system are acknowledged (Hackney 1989; Shangold 1984).

Despite their athletic appearance male athletes have lower androgen levels than
untrained men in a resting state. The results of comparative studies suggest significantly
lower free and total testosterone concentrations in chronically (several
years) endurance-trained runners, weight lifters, rowers, cyclists, and swimmers
(Arce and De Souza 1993; Arce et al. 1993; Hackney 2000; Hackney et al. 1988;
Wheeler et al. 1984; 1991). In these studies, testosterone concentrations of trained
subjects were only 60–85% of the age-matched untrained men. It should be noted
that these low testosterone levels are typically not outside the clinical norm, but at
the very low end of this range.

With few exceptions (Elias et al. 1991; 1993;MacConnie et al. 1986) LH and FSH
concentrations and pulsatile frequency-amplitude were unaffected by the training,
even though testosterone was significantly reduced. Elias andWilson (1993) emphasize
that exercise effects on gonadotropic and gonadal hormones are independent
of each other, and it is still uncertain what exact mechanisms cause the change in
testosterone levels.Arce and De Souza (1993) attribute the decline in testosterone to
alterations in hepatic and extrahepatic (muscles, skin) metabolism of testosterone
which cannot be compensated by the athletes’ gonads.

Acute effects of submaximal, prolonged (>60 min) exercise in marathon runners
or cross-country skiers resemble hormonal changes found in endurance-trained
men during resting state. After a 42-km marathon run or cross-country skiing
over a distance of 75 km a highly significant decline in testosterone concentrations
compared to pre-competition baselines was observed which could last as long as
5 days (Cook et al. 1986; Dessypris et al. 1976; Marinelli et al. 1994; Tanaka et al.
1986; Vasankari et al. 1993). After a long distance run (21 kmor marathon), young
sportswomen had significantly increased testosterone levels (Baker et al. 1982; De
Cr´ee et al. 1990; Hale et al. 1983). Even after a 30-min run significantly higher
testosterone levels were observed (Shangold et al. 1981).

Regardless of the kind of sport, maximal or submaximal exercise (5–30 min)
normally results in significant increases of testosterone levels in males independent
of LH and FSH secretion. LH and FSH remain either relatively unchanged
throughout the short exercise period (Sutton et al. 1973; Tegelman et al. 1988) or
show an increase (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; Cumming et al. 1986; Kuoppasalmi et al.
1978).

The apparent disagreement between the effects of submaximal, prolonged exercise
and 5–30 min exercise on testosterone levels in males are explained by the early
(non-LH dependent) rise in testosterone concentrations (Adlercreutz et al. 1976)
and a decreased metabolism of testosterone due to a drop in hepatic blood flow
(Cadoux-Hudson et al. 1985).

As typical as the quick increase in testosterone concentration is the rapid decline
below baseline levels 15–60 minutes later (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; Elias et al. 1993).
The reduction can last up to three days (Adlercreutz et al. 1976; H¨akkinen and
Pakarinen 1993; Kuoppasalmi et al. 1978; Tegelman et al. 1988) and its duration
was found to depend on the intensity of the exercise (H¨akkinen and Pakarinen
1993).

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Added on January 31, 2010, 3:30 pm8.2.4 The effect of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on body composition
and muscle strength

Intense controversy persisted until recently with respect to the effects of supraphysiologic
doses of androgenic steroids on body composition andmuscle strength
(Bardin 1996; Bross et al. 1998;Wilson 1988).We conducted a placebo-controlled,
double-blind, randomized, clinical trial to separately assess the effects of supraphysiologic
doses of testosterone and resistance exercise on fat-free mass,muscle size and
strength (Bhasin et al. 1996).Healthy men, 19–40 years of age,whowerewithin15%
of their ideal body weight, were randomly assigned to one of four groups: placebo
but no exercise; testosterone but no exercise; placebo plus exercise; and testosterone
plus exercise. Themenreceived 600 mgtestosterone enanthate or placeboweekly for
ten weeks. Serum total and free testosterone levels, measured seven days after each
injection, increased five-fold; these were nadir levels and serum testosterone levels
at other times must have been higher. Serum LH levels were markedly suppressed
in the testosterone-treated but not the placebo-treated men providing additional
evidence of compliance.Men in the exercise groups underwent weight lifting exercises
thrice weekly; the training stimulus was standardized based on the subjects’
initial 1-repetition maximum (1RM) and the sessions were supervised. Fat free
mass by underwater weighing, muscle size by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI),
and muscle strength of the arms and legs in bench press and squat exercises were
measured before and after ten weeks of treatment.

The men given testosterone alone had greater gains in muscle size in the arm
(mean (±SEM) change in triceps area 13.2±3.3 vs.−2.1±2.9%, p<0.05) and leg
(change in quadriceps area 6.5 ± 1.3 vs. −1.0 ± 1.1%, p < 0.05), than those given
placebo injections (Bhasin et al. 1996). Testosterone treatment was also associated
with greater gains in strength in the bench press (increase 10±4 vs. −1±2%,
p<0.05) and squat exercise capacity (increase 19±6 vs. 3±1%, p<0.05)
than placebo injections. Testosterone and exercise, given together, produced greater
increases in fat free mass (+9.5 ± 1.0%) and muscle size (+14.7 ± 3.1% in triceps
area and+14.1±1.3% in quadriceps area) than either placebo or exercise alone, and
greater gains inmuscle strength (+24±3% in bench press strength, and+39±4%
in squat exercise capacity) than either non-exercising group. These results demonstrate
that supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, especially when combined with
strength training, increase fat free mass, muscle size and strength in healthy men
(Bhasin et al. 1996).

Other studies that have utilized supraphysiologic doses of testosterone esters in
healthy volunteers, men with muscle dystrophy (Griggs et al. 1986; 1989), or older
men undergoing hip surgery (Amory et al. 2002) have also demonstrated consistent
gains in lean body mass during testosterone administration (Griggs et al. 1989).
Collectively, these data demonstrate that when dietary intake and exercise stimulus
are controlled, supraphysiologic doses of testosterone produce further increases
in fat free mass and strength in eugonadal men. Strength training may augment
androgen effects on the muscle.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Jan 31 2010, 03:30 PM

Shame on you for rubbing down The Wonder Root! It does in fact increase T-levels in much the same way as steroids. I've posted some material on this about half a year ago.

Where do you get your supplies from?

Awesome. I think I'm getting the Tonex, 300g of extract/capsule.

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Added on February 2, 2010, 11:06 pmSo I was at Guardian KLCC today and bought myself a pack of 30 capsules of Tonex. Swallowed one down at 9 p.m., but now, 2 hours later, there is zero noticeable effect. I was expecting a huge boner. But nothing.

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Added on February 3, 2010, 4:22 pmTodate I've taken 3 capsules of Tonex. Had a bit of difficulty sleeping last night, but otherwise no boner. I do feel rather energetic today, but it may be a placebo effect.

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Added on February 4, 2010, 8:44 pmI've taken altogether 6 tablets and I must say they make me more alert. Today, I had a constant boner, but that is normal 48 hours after a workout even without supplementation with the root.

This post has been edited by kotmj: Feb 4 2010, 08:44 PM

I think I've figured it out. The lack of discernible effect is due to the dosage. One capsule of Tonex is the equivalent of 6 grams of tongkat ali chips. The recommended dosage for bodybuilders is 50g of chips/day. No wonder.

I would need to consume 8 capsules/day to reach that dosage.

I contacted the distributor of Tonex. If you're to buy a box at Guardian's, it'll cost you RM70.40 now with a promotion going on.

If you buy it from the distributor, it'll cost you RM61.60 per box.

If you buy 12 boxes, something called "bonussing" kicks in. You get 2 boxes for free if you buy a dozen, making the price per box RM52.80.

The more boxes you buy, the greater the bonussing. Anyone interested in joining a bulk buy please reply here.

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Added on February 11, 2010, 6:21 pmhttp://www.rainforestherbs.com/faq.html

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Added on February 11, 2010, 6:53 pmhttp://www.medicinehunter.com/tongkat_ali.htm

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Added on March 2, 2010, 11:37 pmHere's a recent infomercial on this topic:

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article...sterone_toolbox

This post has been edited by kotmj: Mar 2 2010, 11:37 PM

Recent infomercial on the topic.

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article...sterone_toolbox

This post has been edited by kotmj: Mar 2 2010, 11:38 PM