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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club- The Kop Talks 2010, Lille next!

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cherroy
post Feb 20 2010, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(Playboy21 @ Feb 19 2010, 10:29 PM)
I agree that Ngog has the 'football brain', but really, I don't see the point of having a good understanding of the game and your teammates, if you fail to give your best for the team. As RyanHo mentioned, determination, passion, and the eagerness to win each ball is just as important as having a good football brain. There's no point in thinking about your next move, if you're not going to sprint and charge at defenders at every opportunity you get.

Seriously sols, just look at him 'chase down' defenders. He runs like a faggot. Admit it. Did you see how Masch chased the striker/wing down yesterday? Thats what I call determination.
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Ngog is not bought for first team player in the first place. It is Rafa's and team's financial inability not able to have a second striker. (Because Rafa like to play 1 striker so striker department is not the prioriry if Torres is fit)

I share you frustation when Ngog missed some easy chance or contribute nothing time. Little people complain when Voronin didn't score or missed some sitter time. But now Ngog like become a target man when he didn't contribute anything time. For for the sake of record, Ngog's record is better than Voronin, which we have to be fair as well.

No doubt, brain + determination is very important, but to specific target Ngog as spacegoat who has score 7 goals so far is a bit too much. My view only. smile.gif
I am not supporter of him, but sometimes, we need to criticise the whole team display instead of specific individual.

Yes, determination and chasing down opponent is very important. But if solely with that, won't win you a game either. You need brain as well, passing etc.
While if there is solely Macherano chasing down, while others don't, then it is as good as none, you need team collective effort to close down in order to pressure the opponent team. You cannot do it individually. That's why we need to look at the team. So far, it is the team play which is suck most of the time, and looks no clue in final third, only can hold on ball possession but lacking penetration pass or creativity to score goal.

Some players may look lazy or could be actually lazy (I don't know), but if he did his job ok, then it is about average display.

Just like a company, I prefer my employee that can work efficiently although may look lazy or actually lazy or not, I don't know. But he/she is better than another person whom is very hardworking like working ants, but actually output is lower than the one work in much lazy. The important point is that, delivery or output which matter the most.
That's why we need brain as well.
No doubt, we want it both to be co-exist, hardwork + brain. But in real world, every personnel is different, there is no perfect match. So with available resource, you settle for the best out of the available choice.

Until now, I hardly see Liverpool plays brilliantly and attacking with real threat, it has been 10+ matches, I seldom see real goal mouh threat from Liverpool play.
Yes, there are lot of possession but most of those possession is no real threat to the opponent.
I blame the team and manager tactic more than individual players.

Cheers. smile.gif


cherroy
post Feb 20 2010, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(mamet @ Feb 20 2010, 05:21 AM)
i hope with the signing of Milan Jovanovic ..
rafa will use 442 and revert gerrard back to CM ..
next season hopefully..
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QUOTE(sivapc @ Feb 20 2010, 11:25 AM)
so where would aquilani play?/

milan isn't young and i think he'll be a voronin type of player.

lucas and kuyt will start most of the games. so 4-4-2 with kuyt, torres, milan and gerrard in the same team?
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As long as Rafa in charge, I don't think we can see 4-4-2 formation. Rafa is known for 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 tactic even back to Valencia days.

His favourite would be Torres upfront with Gerrard supporting
Kuyt will play RM, Milan play LM?

My opinion, I seriously think that Gerrard should revert to CM to bossing around midfield and spraying passes and play with 2 striker upfront. Team play more fluent with that. If not lone striker is not something easy to play and players may have difficulty to adapt, you need brilliant and outstanding player to play with lone striker in effective way. Even Torres look out of sort sometime with lone striker role, and being bullied by opponent physical CB.

In cup game, yes, can, as long as don't concede and don't lose, you can lift the title, league game cannot have this kind of mentality.
cherroy
post Feb 22 2010, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Feb 22 2010, 07:30 AM)
Sometimes, just sometimes, you would want Benny or Kuyt stop playing so honestly...I'm surprised Benny actually tried to continue instead of winning us a penalty.No one would label him as diver if he went to ground last night since there were contacts. A certain "honest" player from the other way of Manchester went to ground for little contact and no one call him diver.So, Benny should stop worrying.

Poor refereeing in general.It's a men game and he is treating it like 11 grown men versus 11 sissies... yellow card here and there...
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Torres getting yellow card just little nudge or body checking with MC's defender when fighting for the air ball, and with first offence after being on the field.

6 yellow cards per match, Liverpool is going to be fined with this, if not mistaken.

another.... scappy game.

No goal threat at all.

Again, poor away match and with 2DM and non-adventure fullback like Carra, the match is expected like that.

Liverpool is the among the disadvatage team to fight for 4th, play 1 games more than the rest, inferior GD compared to Spurs and yet to play Chelsea and MU.




cherroy
post Feb 22 2010, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(normeck @ Feb 22 2010, 01:17 PM)
Liverpool cant score much nowadays...just mark Babel and Ngog, our attacking will be shut down, our midfield cant create much opportunity to give the ball to the striker or score by themself...

i feel now Liverpool was a place to test player and tactical playing...dont have decent striker like other team do...Chelsea got Anelka, ManUtd got Berbatov, Arsenal got Bendtner ..(dunno)

if we see this player, they are playing as 2nd Striker...if they lose their main striker..they have another one...so..what we got? yes we got 2nd striker.. at the bench...so how they will perform?

Midfield...has our midfield score as good as other team? Valencia, Nani, Arshavin, Joe Cole, Ballack,

so this season we just test our tactical and player?
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It is not about striker role only. It is about midfielder inability to score goal and create goal opportunity. There is no midfielder to score a goal for you currently, fullback also none, you don't expect Carra to score goal, right? You don't expect Lucas, Macherano to score as well.
So just mark the front 3-4 players, (like Kuyt, Ngog, Gerrard, Benny) then almost nobody can score already, except through some brilliant and lucky break. (Liverpool win a few 1-0 through this way)

When you play 2DM and no creative passes or through pass to upfront, then most of the time, you are holding up the midfield and having possession, but no goal threat to opponent.

It is more about system you play, instead blaming individual. When you play 2DM (whom don't score) with lone striker, it is hard to see fluent football especially on the front which can create lot of goals for you.

Yup, kinda agree, it is more like tactic game and battling display from Liverpool set-up instead try to beat opponent.
cherroy
post Feb 22 2010, 03:13 PM

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QUOTE(kazuki85 @ Feb 22 2010, 02:58 PM)
I know he's still NOT the same Aquilani who played in Rome. He still showed his rustiness (due to the fact Rafa still rarely plays him even he's fit) and made some mistakes. Give the lad at least till early next season to judge him, cause he just played for us several times, mostly as a sub. I think he will come good if he settles in.

Benayoun and Torres looked a bit rusty as well, I hope they can play in the next match with more minutes...at least thats one of the good point of yesterday's match.  thumbup.gif
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Season near to end liao, Aqualani was bought during summer transfer windows at the price tag of 20 million, until now, either we heard not fit, this match is too physical for him etc, and resulted not play more than 3-5 matches (even as come from as sub), (those left 5-10 mins don't count).
cherroy
post Feb 23 2010, 02:09 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Feb 23 2010, 01:02 PM)
I'm not going to disagree that we've by an large, been piss poor this season. It's the reason we had a big cyber war amongst ourselves not too long ago isn't it? Still the comment you've just replied to is with reference to the game against Man City alone. I do share your sentiment however when it comes to our season in general. Unlike last season, I just don't see us coming from behind even against relegation candidates. When substitutions are made, it looks more out of hope than belief. The way we are playing, I keep hoping for a draw even if it is against opposition from lower divisions. Anyone betting against us being eliminated from Europe all together in Romania next week?
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Losing 2-0 is highly unlikely, as to be fair, defence is quite ok lately. Have several clean sheet, max concede 1 goal only.
May be 1-0 then penalty shootout?

I do not have high hope Liverpool to win, max can hope for is 0-0. Liverpool forget to bring the shooting boot for away match nowadays, they only bring a bus to park in front of goal. biggrin.gif

Yup, recently watch Liverpool match time, if concede then can shut down TV already. Not concede, hope some magic and lucky moment to win. At least this is what I feel when seeing live match time.
cherroy
post Feb 25 2010, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(skeleton202 @ Feb 25 2010, 04:33 PM)
this is the reason why i dun like liv play for europa..  sad.gif
no broadcast live wuld be shame
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CL is the centre stage, Europa match like consolation competition only. Little people care.
cherroy
post Feb 26 2010, 12:32 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Feb 25 2010, 09:53 PM)
Read that as well last week.If they do minus the points, it will be...

Chelsea 58
ManU 54
Arsenal 49
Tottenham 43
City 43
Liverpool 45
Villa 42

lol...
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I don't think this will happen, Premier league will make sure they completed the season, so that all result is valid. It is just about 3 months time before season ended, so can put up some decision to 'buy some time'.


cherroy
post Feb 27 2010, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Feb 26 2010, 11:02 PM)
Speaking of babel, his goal last night shows 2 things.He has great 1st touch and great finishing. If he can improve on other areas, he will be superb!
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Babel shooting is quite good actually, his weak point is passing game, and awareness of teamates around and don't know how to play one two with teamates to create some space for himself, which often we see he is being crowded out by opponent defender.
cherroy
post Feb 27 2010, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(Duke Red @ Feb 27 2010, 01:22 PM)
It's no secret that the most prominant reason behind why we're lagging behind our rivals in terms of global appeal is our failure to market (whore?) ourselves to the world. This is turn is ultimately the reason we aren't able to spend a huge amount on any one player.
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Yup

My view,
The reason, why Liverpool lag behind is failing to take the advantage of commercial wise aka you need $ money mind as well, to grow the club and remain successful. You need to market yourself.
Liverpool lose out the golden opportunity to grow and build bigger stadium back late 80's golden age.

At the most basic point, stadium capacity is always important. Every week, compared to rival, Liverpool already lose out around 20K ticket sales. 20K x GBP 20 per week, and accumulated over the year is a huge sum. The longer it goes over the years, the gap become exponantial wide, which eventually in ability in transfer market. Although money cannot buy you success, without money, success even hard to come by.

New modern football, $$ is an integrated part of football already.
cherroy
post Feb 28 2010, 12:08 AM

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My view, I already conceeding that Liverpool won't able to finish 4th, worst still may be 7th and totally missed out Europe place.

The only way to enroute back to Europe is through winning Europa cup, from backdoor again like last time out.

But I do not feel optimistic about it.
cherroy
post Feb 28 2010, 01:10 AM

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QUOTE(reiben05 @ Feb 28 2010, 12:39 AM)
his one of the most hated players in premier league lol.. unlike drogba and ronaldo, at least they have awesome skill and finishing biggrin.gif
never give up biggrin.gif.. we've seen what an in-form liverpool can do last season smile.gif , we are getting better.. obviously biggrin.gif

we have beaten spurs and villa , now only left with both away to chelsea and man u sweat.gif
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On form? Yup, but we haven't seen since the first day of this year league started. whistling.gif

I only see poor performance, scrappy game win with some lucky factor, and only a few occassion play decent football (during the start of the season), but faded away since 10+ matches or so ago.

Sorry, although lately result is better, but I don't see some exciting performance on the pitch.

Beat MU, then next match lose to Portsmouth 2-0, as good as none.

Somemore away match against Chelsea and MU. Fyi, away match for Liverpool is awful to watch since months.
cherroy
post Feb 28 2010, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(led_zep_freak @ Feb 28 2010, 02:57 AM)
I think what he meant was based on results of past few league matches. You know, the stats based on the last 5 matches where pundits like to use. Before the last few matches, we were never known to be the form team, so it was good to know we made little progess. Not to say I have lower expectations but losing Benayoun, Gerrard, Torres and Johnson at one point was always gonna be a blow.

Anyway what's surprising though, is that Reina is on course to his 4th Golden Gloves. He is currently on par with Peter Cech with 12 (Or was it 1 behind?) clean sheets. Of course, there isn't much competition in this league apart from Shay Given whos had leaky defense under Hughes and Peter Cech who is now out. But if Reina gets it eventually, he more than deserves it for his brilliant all-round performance - pulled a number of stunning saves that kept us where we are now, dealt very well with crosses where our out field players struggle and more importantly, being a leader in our team. Without his contributions our season would haven been far worse, easily our player of the season.
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Sorry, I don't share the view Liverpool is on form.

Although for the last 7-8 games or so, based on result and points taken, it is indeed quite ok and especially lot of clean sheet lately which is good, but attacking sense wise, and ability to score goal and walk pass oppoenent is not, so I don't classify as 'on form'.

On form team is ruthless and able to kill off opponent with ease and even trailing also can turn the game around.

Current on form team in the league is Arsenal.
cherroy
post Mar 1 2010, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Mar 1 2010, 01:33 PM)
IPersonally, I would like Aurelio to stay.We don't have much players who can deliver great set pieces.He is one of the few we have and losing him isn't something to be happy about.

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Aurelio is the one that can deliver good crosses, corner and set-piece for free kick. Better than Gerrard in term of corner and free kick delivery. My view.
His crosses and shooting are curling one (some sort like Beckham style) which make defenders hard to defend.
cherroy
post Mar 1 2010, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(kamkamparadise @ Mar 1 2010, 02:30 PM)
With aurelio staying, he can teach a thing or two to Insua about being a left back. probably after this Insua will able to deliver the ball as good as Aurelio.
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Those shooting skill (thunderbolt), delivery skill (curling freekick) sometimes is inheritant, not something that said want to learn already can learn.

cherroy
post Mar 1 2010, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(kamkamparadise @ Mar 1 2010, 04:10 PM)
thunderbolt might be inheritant but i'm not sure about delivery skill. it's a skill that can be practiced and perfected. Last time cristiano Ronaldo don't possess curling freekick but after few years of training he possessed one of the deadliest freekick.
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Yes, it can be praticed and learned, but not everyone can master it. Only a small portion of players can.

If cannot, then cannot.
cherroy
post Mar 2 2010, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Mar 1 2010, 06:23 PM)
Who the hell is Aquilani? mad.gif
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This game is too physical for him?
whistling.gif
cherroy
post Mar 2 2010, 02:43 PM

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Please don't buy injury prone players again.

Even the player is very very good, if due to injury prone which the player is not available, and cannot play more than 5-10 matches for the whole season, it is as good as having no player.


cherroy
post Mar 2 2010, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(led_zep_freak @ Mar 2 2010, 05:08 PM)
Arteta is a decent shout but doubt the blues would even consider selling one of their best players to us.

I'm more disappointed we didn't go for Sneijder or even Van Der Vaart considering we sold Alonso to Madrid. You could see where Rafa was heading with Aquilani who plays in a more advance attacking role. His style of play would be useful to break teams that we struggle to beat last season. However, he is injury-prone and could just potentially cost us an entire season. =/
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Liverpool needs CM that can run the show in the midfield, dictate the match tempo, spraying passes, not just DM doing the dirty job. Arteta can fit the role.

Errr... but those struggle to beat team are all physical, so he has no chance to play? whistling.gif

The way to utilise Aqualani is drop back Gerrard to CM, let him run the show in midfield, and Aqualani sit behind Torres.

Liverpool needs Gerrard in midfield, playing Lucas + Macherano in CM, the whole team could struggle to score a goal, except rely on some magic or lucky moment only.
cherroy
post Mar 2 2010, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(Everdying @ Mar 2 2010, 08:37 PM)
next game cb just left with carra and kyrgiakos...dunno how they going to survive...esp if masch plays RB again tongue.gif
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I don't mind Mascherano playing RB, at least the situation force RB to play Gerrard in the middle and 2 upfront, with 4-4-2 formation.

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