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 The Official Subwoofer Thread v3, Everything you need to know about bass!

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pierreye
post Jun 2 2010, 06:45 PM

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It's not for bragging but so far SubM seems to be the reference sub at USD2k. I don't think we can find any commercial sealed sub that can output 110db at 15hz below RM 10k. Reference level for speaker is 105db and subwoofer is 115db.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jun 2 2010, 06:59 PM
pierreye
post Jun 3 2010, 11:35 AM

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None taken, I just pointed out on the $ to performance ratio. I'm going for cheaper route getting DIY eD kit. Been waiting for 2 months.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jun 3 2010, 11:36 AM
pierreye
post Jun 3 2010, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(scsoo @ Jun 3 2010, 03:51 PM)
Yeah.. front speaker left and right need.. maybe get one more put in middle also can...
Me go to small cinema can see speaker one.. maybe big cinema they got budget to hide speaker  rclxms.gif
Yeah.. you go big cinema.. hidden speaker.. must be expensive cinema.. sure great for Bass....
If you don't buy SPL Meter how to measure? to know need to measure.. so need to spent money and buy...

Or, like I suggested earlier.. buy one subwoofer first.. test and add until enough bass.. if up to 100 subwoofer also no Bass.. then  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif  rclxub.gif

1 sub 2db = 100 sub 200db... hope my matematik correct...... (assumption of 1 sub output 2db)

If 1 sub 20db.. then 10 Sub enough... think my matematik correct, if wrong then do inform me  biggrin.gif
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db don't add up like mathematics. If you co locate similar sub, normally the gain is max 6db. Every 3 db need to double the wattage.

If you want to calculate theoretical SPL you can achieve, look at your speaker sensitivity, goto below website and plug in the number.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Note that this only show you max SPL your speaker can achieve. Some speaker/sub start to distort when exceed certain wattage.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jun 3 2010, 06:05 PM
pierreye
post Jun 21 2010, 12:20 PM

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Received the DIY eD A7s-650 kit. All build and info will be on the first post in this thread so it's easier to read.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...0#entry33517996
pierreye
post Jun 21 2010, 12:40 PM

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Within a month. If my carpenter too busy, I will check with some local hardware store if I can rent some equipment such as clamp and braid gun.


pierreye
post Jun 30 2010, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(ambg @ Jun 29 2010, 07:26 PM)
Noob question, would it be better with 2 ard 2.3K subwoofer or one near 4.2K subwoofer for a HT (7.1 vs 7.2)? TQVM.
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You have to determine what is the min spec you need from the sub. Do you need sub that dig deep (sub 20hz)? If you have a sub that can only go to 25hz flat, then 2 sub doesn't mean you can go down to 15hz depends on the rolloff. I would advice to go for one very good sub first (preferable down to 20hz -3db) then add on when you had the budget for second sub.

The advantage for dual sub is to smooth the freq response for multiseat and around 3-6db louder compare to one sub.
pierreye
post Jul 2 2010, 11:35 AM

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Anyone interested in PB-13 vs eD A7s-650 review? But it is in Mandarin done by Taiwanese. Note that PB-13 is tune at 20hz (by looking at the graph).

http://www.myav.com.tw/bbs/showthread.php?...2&pagenumber=20
pierreye
post Jul 2 2010, 12:05 PM

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There are 2 school of thoughts on the SPL meter direction. I read in avsforum that some of the guru advice to point the SPL meter upward or slightly forward. I think the reason is to get uniform SPL level from all speakers. Even REW documentation also mention pointing upward but some SPL meter need to plug in the sponge for more consistent reading.

http://www.realtraps.com/art_microphones.htm

Note: Pointing up is only for omnidirectional mic. I recheck REW documentation on meter placement recommendation. For low freq (below few hundred hz), pointing straight up is the recommended position. Above few hundred hz, recommended to point the meter at the speaker.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/wiz...ingstarted.html

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 2 2010, 08:10 PM
pierreye
post Jul 9 2010, 09:49 PM

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The dual HSU ULS-15 are very good. The few sub that can extend to 10hz. Big plus on the size which is quite small for 15" plus wireless which is more flexible on sub placement.

I never heard the sub but according to avsforum, I believe the rating as below:

PB12+ < HSU ULS15 < PB13U < Dual ULS15. Again ULS15 is a seal sub so it depends on your preferences.

If your main application is HT and can only get one sub, PB13U would fit your need.

Anyway, someone had to be the first to get ULS15 in Malaysia.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 9 2010, 10:01 PM
pierreye
post Jul 10 2010, 05:26 AM

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QUOTE(mys_terious @ Jul 9 2010, 10:31 PM)
your sub sudah siap?.. finally this afternoon i have installed my projector screen:).. my ht dream is getting near.. it's been delayd for 2 years hehe
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cabinet spraying done. Still waiting for rubber feet
pierreye
post Jul 10 2010, 10:21 AM

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Any open ceremony for your HT? Picture?
pierreye
post Jul 20 2010, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(mpyw @ Jul 20 2010, 09:50 AM)
if your SVS selling at USA's price....no one would complain lar tongue.gif

but in reality, we are here in bolehland...unless you can convince SVS to setup a plant here tongue.gif but folks at East M'sia still need to pay higher price due to shipping lar......hay, why not setup in East M'sia...they have lots of land there......tongue.gif
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And a lot of timber and cheaper labor rclxms.gif Can do solid wood subwoofer.
pierreye
post Jul 20 2010, 08:08 PM

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Want to try out some crazy low LFE? Try out Iron Man walking out from the cave. For LFE mid punch, try out Dark Knight where batman punching Joker's thug at the party. You can really feel the punch in your chest.
pierreye
post Jul 21 2010, 10:06 AM

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First time I hear my sub bottom out. I think need EQ to tune down some freq a bit. I can't use audysey MultiEQ XT as it some how constraint the sound of my speaker. The bass boost for MultiEQ XT also is crazy high matching 10hz at 105db (I think my sub start to bottom when hitting 10hz - 15hz at 110db.

Will borrow EQ1 from Anfieldude to see if it help to tame the sub. eD A7s-650 is a beast but need some control from EQ. Will post my REW graph later.
pierreye
post Jul 21 2010, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Jul 21 2010, 11:19 AM)
What movie and what level were you playing at when your ED bottomed out?

You mean the MultEQ XT constrains the sound of your ED or your JTR?
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Iron Man when walking out from the cave, I believe my gain is mismatch to my receiver sub out. At -5db on my receiver, my ED bottom out. If I turn down to -12db, then the thumping stop. REW test tone at -5db at my receiver will bottom out my sub too. That's when it hit 110db from 10hz to 20hz with audyssey engage.

MultiEQ XT constrain JTR speakers. I heard similar reports in avsforum.

Graph posted in eD DIY thread.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 21 2010, 12:59 PM
pierreye
post Jul 21 2010, 08:41 PM

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Earn half from everybody else but pay double price. So in actual fact we are 1/4 spending power compare to other advance country. Also, we always get second grade items. Ask Panasonic on their V model compare to US/UK. What to do, our minister all 3rd grade.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 21 2010, 08:41 PM
pierreye
post Jul 27 2010, 08:48 PM

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Their sub quite cheap but not sure how much for shipping. Also, if you want pro speakers, their Pro 10 is the cheapest you can get. Might get one pair to replace my surround back speaker as it can't match my front speaker efficiency.
pierreye
post Jul 28 2010, 06:08 AM

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If you see their SPL graph, you'll queue up too. If I didn't get my A7s-650, I'm interested in their dual 18" too. Shipping should be the killer part. I estimate with shipping + tax should be close to the price your pay for the sub.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 28 2010, 06:09 AM
pierreye
post Jul 28 2010, 08:08 AM

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QUOTE(kc01 @ Jul 28 2010, 07:38 AM)
Just off the phone with Mark 2 hours ago. Ordered a Seaton Submersive hopefully ETA Sep! : )
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How much you get including shipping? rclxms.gif Any word you can get HP version upgrade.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 28 2010, 08:08 AM
pierreye
post Jul 28 2010, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(kc01 @ Jul 28 2010, 08:14 AM)
All in including sub (US$1,495) + shipping (US$180) + Black Oak finish (US$50) + debit card charge (US$25) = US$1,750.

HP version for 230V country not ready until 2011.
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Wow great price. Too bad not for Malaysia.


Added on July 28, 2010, 11:16 am
QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 28 2010, 10:00 AM)
bro,

If u've got the time, drop by....check out the F15.

The last couple of days (actually from Saturday last week), I've been mucking around with the Rythmik F15.

Most of u who know me and hv been to my home, will know that I am an audio 1st guy. I currently own a Dali Ikon Sub (12in driver) that seemed to do the job well in my room, went down to about 26Hz. Probably at high SPL scenes, it could go to about 100dB but it was always strained. I have auditioned the Rythmik in the owners home before and at that time, was convinced that it was either a room problem or a sub problem. Subsequently, I listened to PB13U (was absolutely floored by the punch), Seaton Sub (my personal favourite due to its ability to handle music and movies with relative ease, the one complaint I had to the owner was that his sub was outperforming the rest of his gear!), the Velo DD12 (also powerful but not near the PB13U) and all of them in this range seem good. I am pretty sure by pierreye's current impression the eD650 seems to trump his DD12 easily so its another one of those damn good subs...

My current Ikon Sub has overhang, that's one thing I do not like when integrated to my current fronts. The Ikon6s go pretty low (rated at 37Hz) but paired with a sub, for orchestral pieces and even music, its even better. Being a 6 1/2in driver of course it does not do low frequencies that well but its rated low anyway.

So when I actually plonked the F15 by simply removing the IkonSub, (did not redo the Audyssey), the improvement over the smaller sub was clearly evident. The older AS-EQ1 curve was set to cutoff everything at 26Hz due to the older sub. All I did was to adjust the trims to bring the levels matched, and even then the difference was clear. I later re-did the EQ1 with 1 in 2 out combo and set the F15 to 20Hz mode. The curve post EQ1 was pretty spot on and the cutoff was set at 18Hz or so. I did not do REW or enable the PEQ on the F15.  I believe for my 2 channel listening this will improve the effect much more. Some of my reference CDs for bass response do seem much better. Also I can listen at lower volumes and still get the low end to show. So after all this, I watched some of the normal scenes to check the overall bass response for movies.

Boy, was there a difference! My room is untreated, so I already know that there will be a decay problem. Maybe this weekend I will run the REW curves and see how it looks.

The normal movie scenes that has been recommended by all, Batman, WOTW, KungFu Panda was all so much better compared to my older sub. All this was not at reference levels. Since my room is untreated, I normally listen to -5 to -10dB below reference, at the impact was really big! The sub seemed to dig deeper (of course) and the impact was visceral as well. The kick in the chest was evident on some of the scenes. I will write more of my impressions later.

So the moral of the story, for all those contemplating for a sub and u r the kind who wants to enhance ur viewing experience, go out there and spend on a good sub. All the subs above are good. Of course, with htkaki selling SVS here locally in Malaysia, it makes it that much easier in not having to import the sub urself and also with the addition of the new SB13, u can get the sealed in big bad a** sound! I also know how capable the PB13U is as I have felt it in the demo room and its one big bad sub! Certainly give it a try if u r looking for a big sub.

I am definately going to continue to play with this sub to see how I can further integrate it into my 2 channel stereo as there are still knobs on the bugger (phase, PEQ, damping and rumble filters) to see if I can improve on it.
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You are using the Onkyo 876 for music? All this upgrade of sub and speaker had exposed that the weakest link I have in my system is the receiver. I seriously consider getting an Emotiva USP-1 so that I can cross the speaker and sub at 80hz for music (analog crossover) and use the HT passthrough for Onkyo 805 during movie session. I need sometime to tune in my system as I'm still waiting for my RCA to 1/4" plug for BFD and Galaxy CM-140 SPL meter to measure the full freq response of my speaker.

This post has been edited by pierreye: Jul 28 2010, 11:17 AM

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