yaya...u r right dude... I think we are of the same age group we passed 1997, 2008...even 1985 even that time I was still young....haha.... I saw many poeple are forced to sell cheap becoz need cash...and unable to serve the loan...

talking about the current situation, if it is high rise, we can on hold, especially currently there are too many high rise new launch surrounding Klang Valley...and almost over supply.... for landed, provided it is at good location n it is FH, can buy for own stay...if for second house , third house or for goreng, just hold on...the market is overheated.... not suitable for buying for investment....becoz landed property can hardly generate cash flow... more often is capital appreciation but looking at the current situation, how far the price still can up ? so, my 2 cents : buying high rise, no rush, too many supply...buying landed, unless it is for own stay, good location, FH, for getting married use or u got holding power, if not...if it merely for investment purposes, don't buy at hurry.....
now it is at the peak of the property price...

Every weekend the papers show new launches past few months.....
Wow the citizens got so much money ahhh ? Already buying 3rd house ahh or 4th house ahhhh?

The banks so generously giving loans ahhh ? Higher and higher sub sales prices and agents saying its market prices wohh !!! "Market price wohh better not kiasu. ...rush n buy before it goes higher"
Is this the mood for investors? "Can get good rentals wohh???" " Buying condo weekly is like buying ice creams"

The tv news keep saying even big China is slowing down. India is slowing down.
HK retail affected. USA job stats in May is slower than previous months.
Greece problems infecting the Euro Zone. And we here in KL are gloriously not affected? Whilst every smart dude in USA or EURO jaga their wallets and pray that they will not be retrenched or cut pay or Stuck with sub primes, we here are busy shopping for investments and worry the market price will go up?

2012 is 100th Anniversary of the sinking of the great Titanic, I suddenly remember that.
In this uncertain world landscape, if it's landed property I dare to plunge to say its for the kids I bought for. And keep my old fingers crossed. And any wrongs is dying for the kids.

For buying condo, and saying its for investment, And thinking I can rent easily and use the ringgit to pay for bank loans and paying high maintenance bills, am I trying to be naive or pretending I am still a 25 yr old and got 30 more years of work to make up for bad decisions of loss due to economic crisis?

Meantime, the best investment I made in 2012 is a new ipad2, iPhone to aid me in my work and that's brings me better income. And one Bank gives good 3 months FD Promotions. Hold my $ there first and wait and see what's going on, ha ha...

haha.... we are hero of the same thought .... we already got hint from FB IPO, haha...before IPO, all people crazy for it, worrying can not be one of the investor, now ? the market price is 25% below its IPO
why ? haha, becoz it is priced too high, too exp, with PE 100.... imagine even google , apple 's PE only 15-20 only... so, those fans of FB , u jump i jump, andjump into the trap now from here i learned, there are always good buy after the bubbles hahahaha....why buy @ USD38 ? now only selling USD28 and still have room to drop...
i parking my cash in cimb itrade , quite good interest and in case any good buy, can make 1-2% profit haha....last week just T3 IoI....make some small duit kopi...haha...

This post has been edited by jinike: Jun 2 2012, 12:57 AM

How old are u guys 40 plus from yr postings?

Put it simple, factual in middle class condo investing.
The super rich we always hear about I guess are targeting London, Australia, or NZ .
These people with fortunes of above 5, 10, 20, 50 to 100 millions travel to these English speaking World capitals regularly for shopping and visiting kids. You think they are the ones who need to buy middle class condo between 250K to 800k levels??
You think they can live being neighbors to middle class neighbors without titles of Tuns, Tan Sri, to Datos titles?

These rich can buy super expensive condo costing 7 figures and leaving them empty for years. Does it matter to collect RM1600 rental like in middle class condo rentals for middle class investors?

The fact that people who buy middle class condo and still need to work to get salaries to pay up for the condo installments with bank loans shows these people are not the super class rich or super high class levels la....don't think those super rich need bank loans to buy RM 450k condo la. When the car park outside their giant bungalows already cost RM 800k to RM1.5mil each la... And the richer they are, they are best at accounting and definitely will not foot interest to banks for buying silly middle class condo for RM450k . If their rich young son wants, they just buy with cash to save interest!!!!

Back to reality here, we simple not super rich investors are careful because every dime, ringgit are hard earn money.
If the choice of buying a landed small terrace of RM450k in suburbs Selangor and buying a small size condo costing RM450k and making more comparisons of other condo within price list of RM300 to RM450k, we suddenly aware that our choice gets wider because we look beyond but same time STEADFAST in knowing we are not pretending that paying maintenance bills of RM350.00 to RM450.00 don't hurt our wallets!!!
It does and hurts! That, that saving RM100 of maintenance bills of condo, can buy a new pair of pants or a new shirt every month too. That sort of sacrifice, I mean .


What age group? I have colleagues who are 35 yrs old, and it seem they are even more cautious than me in spending money. So it's not so much the age group too. It's how informed and intelligent that person is to invest.

I don't have kids. I don't need to dream to buy for kids a condo from my savings and believing that one day, that in return, they will look after me, and that my next generations having condo as their heritage. That's bullshit.
I can rent midfields at RM1600 alone , 3 rooms for myself!!
Large lanai too. I take survey walks and sitting around the nearby Taman Sungei Besi little humble shops, where their customers are neighborly flat dwellers, Indonesians, and other immigrants workers from nearby backyards business recycle collection centers, etc lorry loading depots with busy forklifts till 12am in the nights at times.


Cheong hei here, but guys lets face reality - there is nothing wrong being kiasu to carefully buy or wait to buy.

Let those agents talk. Owners yet to come out to sell themselves. But ummm I did receive a few owners reaching desperately to me to buy their Block B units and I told them if they can continue to play market game or the bank loan game. They were speechless. And the super rich are snapping up homes in USA to UK as now with bad economy over there, the prices of condo to buildings are dirt cheap . They astute smart rich investors NOW pay half of what they Need than one or two years before!!!!!!

You see, the super rich don't get rich being dumb. They got one thing we seldom got. That's patience and correct attitude and they don't jump into the murky waters of the kolam mandi . Don't just get impress with beautiful looking pools of any condo laaaaa to buy. Can you afford to stay your self or u again opt for renting to who? Use caution . Use time. Use yr brains !

This post has been edited by Citydude: Jun 2 2012, 03:24 PM

I am at the mid of 30 too..haha... ya, super rich people will not eyeing at malaysian property now....becoz all are selling at peak price while , alot of property in US, UK, Nz, Oz, China....now are selling at discounted price.... my friend in china just bought 1 luxurious condo, duplex, buy 1 free 1 (duplex: buy the lower level, free the upper level, simply mean buying duplex at normal price ) ....it is about 15-20% cheaper than last year.... now if we have cash . plenty choice at overseas....cheap sales !

Wow at yr age, you are wise

Ummm definitely, the rich knows the current crazy price up in KL valley are only sapu by locals opting to support the housing industry
They got options .
They go overseas sapu n still own prime world estate and still richer and nobody knows!!

We here think we are really rich.
So still paying car loans and suddenly act rich and go buy buy buy etc every week buy as if no tomorrow.
Someone pretending to me saying RM 450K is cheap!
I look out at what car he is paying and wonder if he still on car loan and still got 2 school going kids to raise.

Gosh !!!
That's really make me puke !
But these people got soft ears and listen to sales agents thinking suddenly they are rich by able to "own" one .
I ask " can you stay there ?"
Forget about the rental to pay your loan wohhh !???

Uncles, i concur with ya all 2 .. but only part of it.
I agree most people are playing the market game but it was the bank loan game that won the transaction numbers.
i also tend to agree people who had experienced 1985, 1998 are more cautious. But that doesnt mean you understand better than the younger generation. In fact, you should look at what the younger generation demands. The world has changed.
In fact those age 28-35 are the biggest group of house buyers.
I also agree the house price has gone overboard but actually not too much overprice. Bank loan is only 10-20% lower than market price ..
I think if anything happen, that's what the market will experience.
And please dont compare US, UK, China, etc. If you do compare, please compare capital city with capital city like NY, London, Beijing, then you will see how much cheaper KL is.
And having to say all these countries in crisis, doesnt stop the speculators to malaysia. In fact, they would prefer to because malaysia has not join the bandwagon. But i dont think the speculators are also interested in malaysia due to their change of policy.
In fact, i believe house price increase in recent years are due to rising inflation, rising material cost, and rising labour cost.
Malaysia house is now more expensive, but come on, the whole world is facing the same problem. i feel malaysia is always slower to react compared to other countries. Some may already have the peak and having some slowdown which is good.
Are we at the peak ? To say we face slowdown, maybe. To say we face bad recession, a big NO.

Don't think the volatile situation allow the economy to be too depressed
The govt should be pumping cash projects to show good GDP etc
Only whether yr particular sector is affected or not

I am not going to compare that a condo in KL is still cheaper than in London .
But I think the rich is shopping overseas as its cheaper to them compare to years ago .

Similarly prices here are up can be really due to supply vs demand .
It may also be smarter prop speculators buying wholesale units in 10 or 50 units and reselling
On completion n marking up at least over 150k to 250k

Buy sapu many units at cost and sell push a " market price" to make profit
It's a business .

that's why i said, buy only if u need it, if buy for own stay it is ok, but, if buy for flipping, goreng.... it is very risky already... no harm buy for own stay if u can afford it, and if it is located in good location, FH property, good surrounding amenities...etc.... ( check my previous post )

we are uncle, but, our mind is not uncle.... and we have the advantages of " between the young n older generation "...becoz we have experiences....and we are still able to fill the gab between young n older generation...at least we still know how to use FB, twitter...e-banking...online stock trading.... don't think that we are those uncle with cash, a lot of money, but don't know everything n no knowledge.... I buy stock, i never listen to remisier advice, I study and buy at my own decision .... by clicking 1 or 2 button at home, i can easily make a few hundred buck at home daily already...

I set up my company HQ in HK, not KL, why ? save tax.... and easily to move my money all around the world without any ti9ght restriction...I have online platform for doing my own business for saving cost.... I know to put cash in which country get better FD rate, which country can not got good rate...I know how to save cost for the import duty n sales tax by breaking my material into different packaging n declare in different tax tariff.....etc....etc....don't think we are old generation uncle, that don't know what is going on and what is happening....

we have the benefit of the young n older generation, better experiences, knowledge, know how, and most importantly, our networking !


* you know how banker value a property and approve a loan ?

take for example :

developer buying a land with cost : RM100 / sq ft.... building cost for a condo...RM100k....facilities...public area cost....RM20m ( to be divided into total unit ) let say RM50k per unit...

so, let say RM200k per unit cost, selling RM300k...developer make profit RM100k per unit...

now come to sub-sale....market price RM450k... the so call RM450k market price is intangible value ! the actual value is only RM200k...

like stock market...a share price can be USD38 for FB IPO, but when it reflect it actual value...now market price is USD28...it is just within a week...before that all people very positive about FB, good company, well known...good investment ...etc...etc...but the so call USD38 is calculate based on its intangible value....where every people believe it , have confident on it, then only stand its price ! the actual value of FB is ？ the actual value based on its PE of 100, mean 1 unit of FB share only generate USD 0.49 profit / annum... so , if u want to compare it with google or apple, their PE is just around 15-20.... mean FB value, max is USD 10 only... so when FB selling USD38 @ IPO, why warren buffet don't even wanna look at it and say, if i were to invest, i better invest in IBM !
WHY ? becoz IBM, at least have the tangible asset that worth that value, what is FB ? what asset FB have ? what is the future profit of FB ? any potential growth ??

why some banker are not easy to approve loan ? becoz they worry if borrow out the money at RM450k ( RM250k is intangible value ) to a sub-sale buyer, if anything happen, they collect back the RM200k paper value products, even lelong , maybe oso can not cover the cost ( like what happen in USA )...so...normally banker will only approve certain no unit for certain project.... that's why we always heard the banker say, sorry , not we don't want borrow u the loan, it is our quota is full for this project.....becoz they oso worry if too many eggs dump into 1 basket....they have their risk management dept....



This post has been edited by jinike: Jun 3 2012, 01:44 PM

Mr Jinike,

Tq for detail explanation. I hear you loud and clear.

The other forum chatter said "to say we face slowdown, maybe. To say we face BAD Recession a BIG No"

You also think a BIG No too? Or ?
Yr views n comments?

Tq

well, I must say, I am not economist... but, I am a businessman, and mix around with many multinational businessman due to my networking ... ( HK, China, US, Korea, Nz, Os, S'pore, Taiwan, Swiss , Germany )

based on what we have seen and understood.... I can say : the Fact that slowing down is already seen ....not maybe...it is already slowing down ! including stock market, property market, and even consumable products !

the whole world now is slowing down, the only hope is rely on a few country to contribute to the " demand " so that we still can have grow in GDP...

now Europe , N.America and many western country already proven to have economy slow down, they need to export , they need to lower their currency value to make their product attractive to export...and rely on India, China Brazil...Russia and some other country like vietnam , Indonesia to export their products....to sustain the GDP...

but, the fact now is, even BRICK country facing the problem or the down trend of the domestic demand... how to digest overseas products?

the Bad recession is not seen yet , untill when it is around the corner, u don't even have time to prepare for liquidize your stock n property. it can be happen tomorrow, day after tomorrow ...1 week later ,1 month later...but it will happen without our consent ... ( beyond our control , we r small fish )

we are unable to predict big recession, how many time when the world suddenly turn into big trouble, all of us the normal people can know earlier, and sell our property, stock, and holding cash , and waiting for big recession and then pick good offer, good buy ? no ! never once...when we the small fish started to seen it...it is already no ways to do that... imagine...many banker , even big shark oso can not avoid being burned !

but, we can smell it, based on our past experiences...we can know what are the symptoms before big recession happen.... and now, I can only say, the big recession is not yet, but I can see the symptoms already.....this is what I can say...

"but, we can smell it, based on our past experiences...we can know what are the symptoms before big recession happen.... and now, I can only say, the big recession is not yet, but I can see the symptoms already.....this is what I can say"

The other chatter has mentioned that a recession to hit us being a NO!

If you asked me, we tend to see slowdown. Feel it? Yes. Today 2012 is not like those days of 1997, where the online world is only reaching the privileged and those privileged to know the signs.
,
Those 1997 days its like the titanic it hit hard rock and water overflow our heads and we just watch each other sinking or drown.

Today, with mobile broadband smart phones, info reach us light speed.
But it took a tsunami to rock Japan overnight everything including the car industry was affected, where imported parts to trades was affected. It is still recovering.

With an ailing EURO, exhausted USA, and slower China, our trade partners are not doing well. How can we be?

Back to our main chat here about properties.
We all agree that IF the buyer is buying for own use to stay.
Ave to good location. Helps his route to work.
Able to pay monthly maintenance condo fees.
Feels good. Even if next 5 years is weak economy and is not really affected.
Then BUY CALL.

But IF the BUY is to invest. To rent out to pay for the Bank installment. T pay for the monthly installment. And any loss of job or retrenchment will be at total loss.
And living to assume every year is better than last year and not able to withstand 5 years of slow recovery. Should you commit to a condo with sub sales over RM200K/RM350K over the original price ( original RM250k and now is RM450k/RM500K)

It is risky? Or should we insist that sub sales be lower . Yet the stubborn sub sales agent says. " Market Price!!"
The bank says Market price. The market says market price.
We closed another deal at this price last week. So RM500k is market price.

Gosh! That's the 6 million dollar question and answer.
Is this still cheap before its rumoured that someone wants to buy at RM550k now!
Kiasu buyer. GO BUY ?

Watch Bloomberg TV
What the news keep talking about past months.

U should know !!

u can see today KLCI .... drop -18.xx .... u know, everything look so normal, calm, doesn't mean nothing is going to happen soon.... I will not buy if the property is not for own stay....now it is not right time to buy for investment....if buy for own stay , getting marry....and u think u r afford to pay instalment, maintenance, etc...go ahead...becoz good property don't wait people.... but if for invest or goreng....no...don't be too rush....wait n see....now is bubbles....like someone pour a can of coke into a glass.....when it is full ...don't judge it 1st, wait another few second u see...it is actually just 50% filled....

Yea la. agree with you.. u see la. last month, i read the Investments news.. they say, BUY PLANTATIONS cos, Plantations is very safe counter. Export to BIG Brother China Market. Not enough supply sure, keep this Plantation Counter up and up.
This week see what happen? Suddenly, the truth is real. China slowing down. Need stimulus to survive their regime. How to buy some more? keep stock? aiyo. so much stock, no space leh...

So, its a global economic disease.
Once Big Apple sneeze, the world catches cold along. domino effect.

BTW, have u heard, a new condo ( 2 blocks) i heard coming out somewhere between that Danau Desa coming out exit to Smart Tunnel. Someone, sms to me. Saying there are two blocks and open for booking. its not cheap. Develper? he don't want to tell. Just say, its reputed one.
Design? also don't want to reveal. He just said, almost sold out woh.. now from 20th floor only available. Not exactly in Taman Desa la. but its that plot of land, after exit from Danau Desa to KL, to Smart Tunnel, after turning left. 500sq/ 700sq/ 900sq. Price: RM290K onwards.....

Ummm, i told him, if i am interested, i call.
GOSH< these people think, buying Condo with few hundred thousand rinngit like buying chee cheong fun ah? like means buy ah? no need to calculate affordability or validity .....

I didn't heard any news on this, but SP Setia is planing to launch KL Eco City soon... ,now actually a lot of condo projects in Klang Valley.... Bangsar South... KLCC Verve Suites ....all selling nearly 1M for studio...

now surrounding KLCC, all the condo seem over supply....the selling price / sq ft also drop abit already...

Now condo prices going fever high!

As if everyone in KL can afford millions a unit.
Developers launching more and more condo. Wow KL become city of condo, etc
Or every other guy earning millions. Can afford buy condo above millions la.

Ummm I must be the odd one out ha ha

It's ok
I don't believe in working till drop dead lo

I can afford what I can. Let it be !

---

Added on June 10, 2012, 6:21 pmHeard from someone
Some bigger companies make money when they go sales launches buy up 20 to 50 units or more.
They keep until completed n keys ready. NOW, they make money as sub sales push and goreng goreng price till reach 150 to 250k above launch price. Make tons for each unit. As they hold alot units up for sale.

After hearing, I guess it's up to prospects to decide.
If they think they generously want to pay so much more for sub sales, it's up to them.

Enough of comments.

---

Added on June 18, 2012, 12:35 pmTalking about crazy prices hike.
I ask one agent, how much, the Block B, Midfields.
He replied, the "owner" wants RM500K !"

I told him, "you think, the banks still so generous to lend such money to a already hike up property prices market?"
As usual, the Agent said, " Market Price la".

I said, if market price, then, I think, i settled for Gembira Resident, which is completing soon, its FREEHOLD, and less density.
Since its almost reaching this price or class.

That's crazy! Well, Maybe, its time, i drop the idea of buying. And rent and still enjoy the facilities. RM1600 (monthly rental) x 12= RM19,200
and if 5 years = 96,000
and 10years = 192,000
well, if i buy a RM500k condo, when bank loan over, i almost paid RM1mil.
Well, if i only rent, it means 808K in saved money, and i can use that money to upgrade my life with travels, buy health facilities, eat better, and don't have to Save so hard to pay house loan only and forgo all the best other things in life. By late 60s, if i have not travel to USA, UK, Switzerland, Japan, the the islands of the world, can i say i am a successful person in life? just because i own a condo only?

These owners or agents, think, 470k or 500K is market price, or they made the market price?
When the market slow down, by the next few months, the so call market price, also will slump down.

So, if i were in the investor owner market, i think, i sell fast, even if its just minus 50K, before, i end up with the original price, i paid for.
And nobody is interested anymore.

That time, money kept in bank is better investment than throwing into bricks and mortar ( Hses/Condo).

And for those other smarter investors, they can reinvest again.

This post has been edited by Citydude: Jun 18 2012, 12:35 PM

Actually midfields plenty of unit 20floor x 8 x 2 tower = 320 units block A

block B also 320 unit

Block C i think 160

all together 800 units

but, u hv to look how big the land is....each block are separated quite far away

newly launch project mostly 450Sq feet, if upon completed i think wanna sell 500-535 per sq feet..a basic 1000sq feet..u need to pay 535k...

if u need to move in now, just buy completed unit

if for investment, any new launch will do since u will sell upon completion


the location of midfields is good also

This post has been edited by ts1: Jul 3 2012, 11:14 AM

Yup everyone going for new launch. Mid fields price so cheap at rm430k-rm450k currently

i think correct comparison should be Yearly rental X 30 years (normal loan period) = RM576,000

So comparison is RM576,000 and RM905,760 (assuming interest 4.4%p.a.)

Conclusion = i think buy still better than rent under long term....cause your rental of RM576,000 totally burn off. but after paying RM905K u still get a condo....worth RM500K..assuming price stagnant over a period of 30 years.

if rent, RM576,000 burn off....but of course you can use the money to upgrade life, etc as indicated. However, you be have to keep shifting house....cause i dun think you get to rent the same place for a period of 30 years.

if buy, RM905K - value of condo @ RM500K = RM405K burn off...but potential capital appreciation gain, no headache ppl kick you out of the house in short notice. However, sacrifice lifestyle?

hehehe...for you to decide....