im a workout novice.
so wanna hear opinions from veterans here..
is it necessary to bulk up DEN cut down?.. necesarry to go through this 2 phases to get a more dramatic result?
cause i dun want to spend time shredding off those fats i may put in when bulking up
anyway to gain muscle mass but at the same time, lose fat so that body will get more ripped?
thanks.

If I'm not mistaken, it is really hard and maybe impossible to build muscle and at the same time lose fat. You have to choose which is your priority first. If you are already overweight, it is advisable to cut first, then only bulk. Then repeat.

Its technically possible to do that,but you have to master your diet and routine to perfection,which is not easy!

so cut things short.. in order to make it easier... should bulk up den cut down?
my main worry is that i gain too much fat during the bulk up phase n unable to shred them off later..
thanks mates btw

im currently pondering this issue as well, but theoretically, it IS possible, not too sure how practical isit to do. check out this page
http://scoobysworkshop.com/gainingMuscle.htm

but i guess its easier to bulk up and gain some fat during the process, then lose it afterward. not sure if its true, but with the extra fat u gain, it increases your testosterone production which in turn helps in bulking of muscle? any comments from the pros?

Not pro but i kinda bulked then cut,max weight reached was 98kgs and now hovering around 85kgs!

It sure is easier to bulk than cut!

haha.. of course it's easier to bulk than cut
cutting phase is the part that worries me...
what do u do to cut? just do cardio without lifting? or minimal liftin?

Check my Journal!

Am lifting heavy,its mainly the diet!

I find it very hard to bulk and cut at the same time. Now, I'm bulking on working day and cutting or non working day. See how it works. If still cannot gain weight, I will bulk all the way. Cutting is the tough part. The food is expensive during bulk up. Also have to control your craving for carb during cutting ...

what's your stats ?? height weight ??
how would one bulk if he's fat ?? same goes to skinny ppl, what to cut ??
if you afraid of the fats, just do the clean bulk...

im 175 with 60 before decided to start bulking
been trying to bulk n cut at the same time for almost 1 yr not
not much difference. weight unchanged.
so decided to bulk only. cut later.

it's rather nearly impossible to do both...just bulk up...consume more calories, above your maintenance level...maybe 2500 - 3000 ?? make sure it comes mostly from protein...the rest will follow...it's all about calories bro...

If you're over fat >15% BF then cut.
If you're a skinny twig then bulk up first.

Bulk and cut at the same time or what most people call culking can be done but the results are disappointment and the effort is not worth the trouble.

You can look at Lyle mcdonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 for a cyclic plan.

Dude........there's like maybe 10% of the world that's less than 15 % bf man....that's lean!

well 15% for seasoned gym rats is fat. Average joe on the street is around 20%.

The usual standard is cut till 8% then bulk up till about 15%.
Rinse repeat.

Natural bodybuilders on stage cut till 5-6% with shredded glutes to make up for their lack of size compared to roid monsters.
They keep within the 10-12% bodyfat zone all year round doing mini bulks and cuts - like Layne norton's 6 weeks bulk then 3 weeks cut protocol.

YMMV but thats how you'd roughly gauge imo.

I remember reading an article before which gives an example that bricks are your protein (the building block) and the calories are your cement. No matter how much protein you eat all will goes down the drain if you do not have enough calories to support it. So yeah don't worry about your 6pack if you have not achieved your desired muscle strength.

ya. thanks for all your info mates,
just realised that calories are as important as protein is..
killing myself by cutting down calories n drinking whey in the past but gained nothing.. urgh.. felt like i've wasted few tubes of whey in the past. dumbo me!.
hahah.. bulking stage now..n will try not to worry bout my abs.. cause though i've some weigh, i just cant help it but realised that im slowly losing my 6packs. hahah

wise man once said - you don't build muscles out of wishful thinking.

haha. well said..
infact, u get nothing in llife by wishful thinking..
it doesnt apply to bodybuilding only..

im in that category...before i start my weight training my bf 11% now 17% ...its really really hard to gain muscle and cut fats at the same time...unless youre very discipline person and watch what youre eating everytime...so bulk up till a stage where you think its enough and cut...but its not easy to bulk oso...my weight has hit a plateau can say no progress further...unless maybe i keep on eating more and more...?

Thats like wanting day and night at the same time.
Building muscle - Caloric surplus.
Losing fat - Caloric deficit.

Unless you're a newbie, even then it has its limits.

ok. final say.
bulk up den cut down,or vice versa instead of attempting the nearly impossible of doing both at the same time...
thanks.

You can bulk and cut at the same time, depends on what kind of bulk you are looking for.

elaborate plezzzz

If I'm not mistaken, I think he means "bulking" with lean muscles instead of fat

Its called a miracle lol.
Caloric surplus will lead to fat gain, even how minimal it is.

There will be fat gain.

Bulk and cut at the same time, prolly maybe with some pharmaceutical concoction

What you guys think about this guy? Gaining 5lbs of muscles a year, losing weight and gaining muscles at the same time.

He's pretty damn thick though.

This post has been edited by monochrome1234: Jan 5 2010, 02:39 PM

juiced.

juiced ?

I used to read his stuffs when I first started out. He's big and lean, trains and eat really well

There is such things called genetics, dedication and a lot of hardwork. Don't rule out anyone that is muscular being juiced

Yea... I followed a lot of his workouts when I started out too... He's been bodybuilding for almost 30 years already dude and follows a vegan diet most of the week... He's definitely not juiced.

45 years old @ 225 9-10% bf?

Given contest prep, it'll be about 215.
He'd kick IFPA pro Tommy Jeffers(27/28 years) who competes at 198.

edit - Food for thought - John hansen competes at 210 and he's a genetic monster.

This post has been edited by weib: Jan 6 2010, 12:47 AM

Not every person with a good body has to be on roids.

This post has been edited by -Dan: Jan 6 2010, 05:04 AM

225 @ 9-10% bf and expected to be contest ready at 215 lbs ?

have u ever prepare for a natural bodybuilding competition ?

+ 1

No way, he's never takes any supplements, only whey.

Most of his workout practice slow and steady form, with minimal range of motion for safety.

Btw, his push ups and pull ups supersets are killer, just doing those can get you sore for days But I must say, I love the his abs workout

This post has been edited by monochrome1234: Jan 6 2010, 10:09 AM

lol mentioning of steriods and everyone is on the defensive.
It can be HRT, at 45 is hard to retain that much mass from what I've seen - I'm not against drug use.

However I'm skeptical given the current genetic freaks out there.
read these few articles -

http://www.weightrainer.net/potential.html
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-ga...-potential.html

I'd be glad to admit i'm wrong if the evidence points otherwise

I saw the same article when alan aragon posted biotest surge vs chocolate milk and how they condemn the whole anaconda protocol.

I for one think the anaconda protocol is questionable. Christian thibaudeau physique and knowledge definitely makes the whole damn protocol much more convincing but I m still doubtful bout it.

how much have you seen really ? Joe Defranco's dad George Defranco was featured in a recent washed up meathead t-nation article, that man is the definition of strict nutrition (only organic foods) and hard training also against drug use. @ the age of 50+, his physique is phenomenal.

I was browsing through your blog and saw the 12 weeks fat loss transformation, how long have u been training and taking care of your nutrition ?

Most people that I know in the gym bulk every 6 months then cut. I'm now bulking also, in a healthy way of course.

My current weight now is about 86kg or 87kg. Last weight was 81kg. I plan to bulk until end of March, then start cutting in April. Maximum bulking at 92kg, then I cut down to 85kg. Maintain from there.

81kg I look like crap, skinny. lol

However, does that mean I should stop weight lifting during my cutting process by doing high intensity cardio less than 15minutes a day 3 times per week? Say for 3-4mth. Cannot be right? Sure lose some muscle since im not using them. Should I carry lighter weight with higher reps?

This post has been edited by chenwei89: Jan 19 2010, 12:55 PM

in details ?
if i dun cut down, i dun have enough energy to lift,
i can lift but 'no air' lolz

for bulking/cutting gears do visit www.musclegears.blogspot.com

Hello Frost Fire!

Just wondering, were you the one who posted this question on my blog? If you did, well, I answered it. Here's the post. Third question. Hope it helps.

http://fabodylous.blogspot.com/2010/01/que...or-fabby-1.html