QUOTE(manami @ Nov 21 2009, 09:26 PM)
You are in denial just like the scientists who have been exposed as frauds in their field.
The counterpoint realclimate link is bs by the same team of PHD cretins whose emails got hacked.
Guilty parties would always try to weezel their way out of their crimes.
The evidence of data manipulation, collusion to prevent peer review, conspiracy, it's all there in my links.
Global warming is a political tool for carbon taxes, a profit making venture for elites to impose a tax on the poorer nations.
Tons of corporations and political powers stand to benefit from these taxes.
Why should anyone in mainstream or rather, the ordinary people trust your ilk anymore?
Proponents of global warming, especially the academic elites, seem to effectively show themselves to be nothing more than arrogant god complex self labeled learned PHDs who would falsify and commit fraud in the name of those who funded them.
Why, should the general public trust your ilk anymore?
This fraud has exposed what is probably just a tip of the iceberg in the scientific community.
It's time the masses wake up and realize that scientists are as much a problem even though we've always grown to assume they're the solution to our problems.
These global warming scientists have shown me they're not much different from religious terrorists, except these terrorists are the types who carry PHDs, labels and other academic credentials who decide who shall live or die.
Those who're interested in the financial interests of who benefits from the global warming agenda should read up on Goldman Sachs and the Cap and Trade.
Goldman Sachs is one of the most scandal ridden financial companies and anyone who has an interest in finance would know about them.
They have people sitting and making policies in the US government. Timothy Geithner anyone?
Why am I in denial? I've considered the possibility that I am, but have you?
Same team? You sure? Or are suddenly all people with PhDs with an interest in global warming just part of a giant conspiracy? Sure I accept that if they're guilty they might want to avoid it. (Heck I don't even have a PhD for goodness' sakes, nor am I studying for one right now, heck I'm not even interested in any climate science at all)
Why the heck do you think that I'm of their ilk? I'm not even certain that anthropogenic global warming is occurring, but I'm leaning towards it after being shown the evidence. All you've done is come in, make various claims, most unsubstantiated, throw in multiple accusations without showing any proof whatsoever, throw in a conspiracy about 'my ilk', people I have no relation to or know, or have heard about until I read your links, and claim that I am in denial.
Stop making silly accusations about me [edited word out], and if you want to make an attempt at convincing me, perhaps you should actually start showing
scientific evidence that the results were faked, no, the emails don't work, because if it were truly faked you could go back to the original paper and show the flaws in the methodology.
All you have done is say these fellas are discredited, that because of this, their research output is discredited. That's not exactly true, because the papers will live and die based on the data and methodology used, which is the important scientific principle here, and whether it's acceptable or not, not whatever their beliefs are. Stop concentrating on the beliefs and start concentrating on the science itself if you want to make a strong case.
Again, I say that this is, for me, the most disturbing (or you would call damning) piece:
QUOTE
I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline. Mike's series got the annual land and marine values while the other two got April-Sept for NH land N of 20N. The latter two are real for 1999, while the estimate for 1999 for NH combined is +0.44C wrt 61-90. The Global estimate for 1999 with data through Oct is +0.35C cf. 0.57 for 1998.
But RealClimate seems to downplay it by putting it into some context, which is most important don't you think?
QUOTE
The paper in question is the Mann, Bradley and Hughes (1998) Nature paper on the original multiproxy temperature reconstruction, and the ‘trick’ is just to plot the instrumental records along with reconstruction so that the context of the recent warming is clear. Scientists often use the term “trick” to refer to a “a good way to deal with a problem”, rather than something that is “secret”, and so there is nothing problematic in this at all. As for the ‘decline’, it is well known that Keith Briffa’s maximum latewood tree ring density proxy diverges from the temperature records after 1960 (this is more commonly known as the “divergence problem”–see e.g. the recent discussion in this paper) and has been discussed in the literature since Briffa et al in Nature in 1998 (Nature, 391, 678-682). Those authors have always recommend not using the post 1960 part of their reconstruction, and so while ‘hiding’ is probably a poor choice of words (since it is ‘hidden’ in plain sight), not using the data in the plot is completely appropriate, as is further research to understand why this happens.
Also, you have not addressed the question of how is the WHOLE of climate science discredited from just having ONE research unit's (out of many) dodgy looking emails leaked.
What's with you and the religious language of choosing people to live and die? Preventing some form of global warming isn't choosing who to live and die, heck if you suppose that it's real it might even prevent people from dying based on their geographical position due to climate change.
Start concentrating on the science, cut down on the conspiracies please, if you want to convince me at all, and please, if you don't want to alienate people who are on the fence, stop attacking them personally. What you are doing now is not making a concrete argument based on the science, but throwing in all kinds of conspiracies. Start working on the evidence, and you might just win me over.
I'm going to pose this question for the third time, since you seem to have missed it the first 2 times: What do you propose to do about ocean acidification, which is a byproduct of pumping more CO2 into the atmosphere?
Added on November 21, 2009, 11:23 pmQUOTE(manami @ Nov 21 2009, 11:00 PM)
The world is not warming up, it's cooling down. Another one who can't read.

The world has been cooling down in the past 8 years, except that all of these 8 years have been the 14 warmest years measured (directly, I presume) on record. Have you ever considered that for context?
This post has been edited by bgeh: Nov 22 2009, 12:20 AM