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 HDTV FAQ, For all Console users

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Lord_Ashe
post Oct 13 2005, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(agingamer @ Mar 2 2005, 10:03 AM)
On the matter of component input, I have a TV with one component input
but multiple devices capable of component output - DVD, XBOX and PS2.

Is there a switcher/selector of some kind that I can get?
Will the passive A/V selector work at all?
I kind of doubt it myself.

What is the difference between the component cable vs RCA audio/video
cable? The plugs look the same. I can only think that the cable quality is different.
*
I ordered a component AV switcher from Lik-Sang for about RM 60. It now connects my DVD player, PS2 and Xbox. Since I only use a reglar Philips for my TV needs (believe me the component input DOES show a difference) I find that it works fine.

Your mileage may vary.
Lord_Ashe
post Nov 27 2005, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 26 2005, 07:36 PM)
wow!!! drool.gif
it's 16:9? not widescreen? like that the screen is super long! drool.gif
even support 1080p? thumbup.gif  quite cheap for such big tv, but what brand is it?
*
Wow that really sounds like a bargain!

After going around for months I finally found one of the few remaining Philips 29" Pixel Plus 2 CRT sets. Snagged it for RM 2400 and am happily gawking at my DVDs and xbox! Even Astro looks nicer, lol.

It doesn't have 1080p, but 1080i support for HDTV will have to be good enough for an average Joe like me...

Lord_Ashe
post Nov 28 2005, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 28 2005, 07:27 AM)
^is it a wide screen or normal 4:3?
with 720p support also?
*
It's a normal 29' 4:3 TV - with the Pixel Plus 2 engine, and support for 480p, 576p, 720p and 1080i. I just ran some games on my xbox last night - and lucky I have to work today or I won't be doing anything but stare, lol.
Lord_Ashe
post Nov 28 2005, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 28 2005, 08:47 AM)
you say have to look for it for months, is this model phased-out already? damn, wish hdtv price will come down quicker. sad.gif
*
Yeah - it's pretty much discontinued. Philips has a new range out now with Pixel Plus 2 starting from 34" but without the 1080i capability and retailing for RM 3900. Weird - I guess they realised they were giving too many capabilities with the old line. Judging from how fast prices are going, I think it's viable that 32" and above hdtv LCD screens will be affordable in the next 2 years or so...till then, it's CRT, lol!
Lord_Ashe
post Nov 29 2005, 12:47 PM

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QUOTE(lightning69 @ Nov 29 2005, 09:14 AM)
There is demand but there is no supply.  All Malaysian TV comes in 4:3 ratio except the newer DLP and LCD TV.  Those are too expensive anyway.  That is why i bought the Skyworth 16:9 crt HDTV because its widescreen.
*
That's right. A widescreen CRT here would be cheap, especially some of the lower end ones, but you're fortunate if you can get an Svideo input! I hear proper (meaning component input, and possibly HDTV support) widescreens CRT are on the way, but you're gonna have to wait.

So in the meantime, it's tough unless we have the moolah...
Lord_Ashe
post Nov 30 2005, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 29 2005, 05:26 PM)
is there really any demand? only the enthusiast in AV would know about wide screen. the average joe only know that tv is 4:3. btw, your widescreen tv, it's china brand izzit? how the quality compare to like sony or philips?
*
Here's a good article on the top ten HDTV myths that are out there. A lot of us sometimes base what we think we know on hearsay. Give it a click.

Top 10 HDTV Myths
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 1 2005, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Nov 30 2005, 08:23 PM)
btw Lord_Ashe, today i see some philips tv with the HDTV (or only HD, not sure) Monitor printed on the front. is this the same as yours or EDTV in disguise?
*
AFAIK, you probably saw these on display:

Philips 34" HDTV monitor, which while definitely HD-ready, do not have the Pixel Plus 2 processing engine (which makes all the difference), or the RGB input at the back for HDTV sources. Resolution-wise, it goes up to 480p EDTV and 1080i only (pretty standard) via component inputs.

An alternative WITH Pixel Plus 2 and similar to mine would be here.

So while both offer 100Hz scanning, I can safely say without the additional Pixel Plus engine you're actually better off getting a comparable Sony CRT - at least Sony's engine makes a difference with regular broadcasts. As to why I'm harping Pixel Plus - well it's just something that has to be seen to be believed.

I have to say though that the 34" Pixel Plus 2 set will probably cost around RM 3800 which puts it on the pricier end of a CRT set. Add a bit more and you can go with a plasma/LCD display maybe?

This post has been edited by Lord_Ashe: Dec 1 2005, 01:07 AM
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 1 2005, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 1 2005, 07:49 AM)
both also looks about the same, i couldn't tell tongue.gif
but the one i see don't have rgb input, guess this is the model without Pixel Plus 2.
btw, the second link, is this the same model as yours? i read th pdf file, it only support 480p and 1080i. from philips website there's only 3 model with HD capabilities, and all 3 only have 480p and 1080i.
user posted image
user posted image

the tv, does the display look almost similiar with pc monitor? i mean without the interlace line like normal tv?
*
Hehe, both look the same because of the tendency for retailers to hook up the dinkiest (and I mean stupidest) kind of composite connection to "show off" the TV, with brightness and other settings tuned up way high...

You're right - I forgot to mention that strangely enough only my model (which has been discontinued, I guess) has support for 480p, 720p and 1080i. I couldn't find a similar PDF but it's stated on the manual. Hmm... I need to do a bit more testing, I think.

As for no interlace line - I played a bit of King Kong yesterday, and that looked pretty amazing for a CRT. Soul Calibur 2(ori) also looked extra crisp but that was at 480p. I'll need to see if I can push it higher...
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 5 2005, 01:04 AM

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I have to agree. Even if you discount the support for 720p (or lack of it) Pixel Plus 2 still blows everything out of the water. I should know, I own one of those. If you're on a budget but still want killer image quality and support for HDTV, you can't go wrong.

I've had people refuse to leave my apartment these past few days, lol.
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 5 2005, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(agingamer @ Dec 5 2005, 01:36 AM)
Lord_Ashe, which model exactly is it? I wanna to check it out too!
*
If you scroll up a few posts you should be able to see it being listed by another gamer. I was mistaken that I said it supported 720p, it doesn't. But everything else IS supported (480p and 1080i with RGB input) AND it comes with Pixel Plus 2.

Right now it's difficult to find the 29" variety, so if you have the cash you MAY want to invest in the 34" or go FlatTV. Either way, for people with a budget, this is definitely good enough, iMHO.
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 5 2005, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(kobe8byrant @ Dec 5 2005, 11:08 PM)
how much is a 25 inch HDTV ready? i wanna buy 1 when i get a next gen console
*
25" TVs aren't really common in Malaysia. You COULD try getting them, but usually people make the jump to a 27" (equally difficult) or 29".

Depending on brand, you can spend about RM 3 - 8,000 on it, so you may want to consider which kind of display technology you want to invest in...
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 6 2005, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Dec 6 2005, 09:26 AM)
Lord Ashe: Can u tell me whether your Philips TV does upscaling/conversion of 720p to 1080i??

Example, when u play SC2 (XBOX) on your TV, how do you know which resolution it's running? Is it set from the game or TV?? Does it runs SC2 in 720p mode by upscaling to 1080i??

I think need to check out the Pixel Plus 2 prices soon.
*
Good question. As far as I can see, when I run SC2 on my TV it defaults to 480p. I don't think it does upscaling - but as of the time of writing I'm trying to see if I can get it to do so. It's controlled by the TV (auto resolution selection), of that I'm sure - I'm just looking to see if there's any way I can change it. I'll post any info I can.

In any case, if you're on a budget the Pixel Plus 2 sets won't dissapoint.
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 7 2005, 01:09 AM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Dec 6 2005, 07:51 PM)
Thanks...keep me updated!!

btw, just check out the price of the Pixel Plus 2 TV 29"(same like yours i think) at SENQ...SENQ prices cheat people one....their "member price"(pay RM12 to join) is actually the standard retail price. Ex: they charge RM2099 for the SONY DB29M61 and RM1999 for "member price"....when RM1999 is the standard retail price elsewhere.

Anyway, it's RM2999(non-member) and RM2799 for the Pixel Plus 2 TV (29")...means that it's about RM400 > than when you bought!!! cry.gif You definitely have a good deal!!!

Anyway, i've checkout the quality of 3 models...SONY DB29M61 and Philips Pixel Plus 2 and Philips non-Pixel Plus HDTV.

Although the input isn't the best (only normal composite...it's hard enough to get those dumb showperson to test the thing for you with DVD video...most of them doesn't seems very interested in entertaining customers and isn't very tech savvy...asking them for component input will probably get a negative answer like "don't have", "don't know", "cannot"...pick your choice), the Pixel Plus 2 TV clearly blows away the Philips non-Pixel Plus HDTV.

It is also significantly superior to SONY's DB29M61 model, although i can't do a side by side comparison. But the DB29M61 does hold it's own and is pretty good, although it's inferior to the Pixel Plus 2 TV.

So the verdict:
PP2 > SONY DB29M61 > Philips non-PP HDTV.

I think i'm leaning towards the SONY model now...almost 1K difference wor...

kobe8byrant:
PANASONIC HDTV?? As far as i'm concerned, PANASONIC CRT TVs sucks. I don't think their HDTV conforms to the typical HDTV standard..with weird 833i mode....what the heck is that!!! Also, image quality lose out to both SONY and PHILIPS. I highly recommend you forget about any PANASONIC TV.

SONY has the best price/performance HDTV right now (< RM2K...apa lagi mau??), while Philips Pixel Plus 2 is the KING of the hills if you've the dough. Samsung new SLIMFIT TV also very interesting...but a bit pricey RM4300 and the image quality isn't very good ( or maybe the source video sucks...like every showroom in Malaysia...maybe need to ask them show proper DVD video to determine the result).
*
I've heard some horror stories about SENQ before...looks like it's all true!

The 29" Pixel Plus 2 SHOULDN'T retail for more than RM 2400 since it's already being phased out! Even the 34" set costs about RM 3600 onwards - but I'm sure SENQ is making a whole lot of money from people who are unaware... I got mine from a HSL myself!

Generally I've been in almost every electronics store here, and I can agree that most times all they do is connect a composite video signal to the TVs and then turn the brightness way up, which accomplishes nothing! Not to mention their sheer ignorance when asked about connections...

IMHO, the Philips non PP2 CRTs aren't such a hot deal - when the PP2 equipped sets make regular Astro broadcasts look just a little less beautiful than a DVD. It makes all the difference, as you've no doubt seen.

In terms of quality I have to agree that Panasonic isn't really the best buy. Even standard Sony CRTs blow Panasonic out of the water by having some of the best picture quality I've seen. Engine wise the Samsung DNIE looks good, although honestly I have to say that with the conditions in the showroom I can't really say HOW good.

In any case I'm still trying to sort out your earlier question...and good luck with your future buy!


Lord_Ashe
post Dec 7 2005, 01:56 AM

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QUOTE(agingamer @ Dec 7 2005, 01:49 AM)
Most stores for the masses seems very poor in their setup, making it difficult
to make like for like comparisons between brands of the same range (except
for specialist showrooms for plasma TV)

Any recommendations on which store to go to shop for CRT TV and LCD TV?

Thanks
*
If you're looking for TVs in general, Harvey Norman in IKANO is actually a good place to shop around. The staff are friendlier, and since there's less people they may actually treat you better. I've had good experiences in HSLs in the Subang area and One Utama (YMMV) and on the whole Sen Heng and SenQ have both been somewhat unsatisfactory. Best Denki is a hit and miss affair, with only the one in One Utama new wing showing any kind of knowledge.

CRTs are easier to look for even in most shops, and there's a multitude of these scattered all around the Klang Valley - but if you're keen on LCD I strongly recommend the Best Denki/HSL combo in One Utama, or Harvey Norman.

Good luck!
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 7 2005, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Dec 7 2005, 09:40 AM)
Eh? HSL got branch in One Utama meh?? Where ah? New wing? Old wing?

Anyway, there's also one shop i can recommend. It's DESA HOME THEATER SYSTEM in Kepong and Low Yat Plaza.

*
I meant to say The Curve, hehehe. My mistake - but the HSL is even quieter and there's plenty of space. Desa's good too! I bought my Pioneer HT system there - good selection and fast service. In fact I think that's where I first saw the Pixel Plus 2 sets...

QUOTE(matrix)
And their latest plasma/lcd promotes useless features like 8 BILLION colours...errr...don't they know the human eye cannot differentiate > 16 MILLION colours??
Yup. It's really bad marketing on their part - but I'm sure there's more than a couple clueless buyers who will be conned...



Lord_Ashe
post Dec 9 2005, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(xxboxx @ Dec 9 2005, 03:17 PM)
all of SC title only support 480p, no 720p.

Lord_Ashe, "hulk: ultimate destruction" support 720p and 1080i. try disable 1080i from xbox dashboard and see if the game display 720p.
*
Hmm. Okay, thanks for the input. I'll do that the moment I can! Strangely the back of my original SC2 says 720p support.

Hmmmm.

This post has been edited by Lord_Ashe: Dec 9 2005, 05:21 PM
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 12 2005, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(jacky @ Dec 12 2005, 05:38 PM)
lightning69, which model you got?

mine to share?
p/s: Sony Bravia LCDs looks like a good deal... thumbup.gif (178degree viewing angel)
*
Bravia's really good for LCDs. Have to agree that even with all the shopping around I've done, the current gen plasmas and LCDs just don't feel/look right. Of course, it could also be that some of the models here aren't even current and the connections...ugh...
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 14 2005, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Dec 14 2005, 09:14 AM)
Yeah...when you surf US sites...you can see a lot of models reviewed which is not available here...dunno why. And i actually think LCD and PLASMA ain't all that great if you look closely...but then again...with the crap setup in our Malaysian showrooms...who can tell anything!!!
*
LOL yeah man. I was trying to see if the Philips Pixel Plus 2 LCD sets would be comparable to the Bravia series - as of now I haven't seen ANY! All that's available are the older Pixel Plus sets that look somehow...wrong. In fact, a lot of times, even the high end Plasma displays look wrong.

I guess a user-friendly place that does not have to break the bank is still a dream...
Lord_Ashe
post Dec 14 2005, 11:25 AM

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QUOTE(agingamer @ Dec 14 2005, 10:48 AM)
I am also perplexed why I am seeing poor setups at most showrooms.
Some showed Astro ESPN that looked so bad that its a turn off.  shakehead.gif

Is cost (cabling, hidef players, etc.) the reason why they have such poor setups?
*
IMHO that shouldn't be a reason, since these showrooms also stock the necessary cables/players. For example, since most LCD/plasma displays these days are HDTV ready - all they need is an HDTV source. I suspect however that the showrooms lack HDTV source devices, unlike us gamers who have our consoles that can at least output ONE flavour of progressive scan. True, these showrooms also have DVD players that support progressive, but I'm seeing that they're just plain lazy or ignorant to hook up their displays properly. A simple example would be Astro. Even on my entry level Pixel Plus 2 set, Astro on a cheap S-video can look pretty good (depending on the source, some shows are better than others) and I've seen a 43" TV in a showroom hooked up to an ESPN feed that looked like it came over regular terrestrial signals! So yeah, while HDTV settop boxes may be expensive, hooking up their high end TVs to progressive scan DVD players with component cables is not!

At the end of the day, the bottom line is to flood the potential buyer with so many specs and features that they end up buying the most expensive TV, not to help them make a good buying decision. Sad, innit?




Lord_Ashe
post Dec 15 2005, 09:05 AM

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QUOTE(Ken6800 @ Dec 15 2005, 08:40 AM)
Sorry to jump on, but I stopped at component inputs three years ago and I am now quite confused!

Are new DVD players able to output in HD?  720p etc?  I know DVDs are not HD, but does it improve the picture quality?
*
Hi mate.

AFAIK, most DVD players you buy don't actually output a HD image. That we have to leave to the upcoming next gen technologies (Bluray, HDDVD). Progressive scan usually means that you'll be getting a 480p image out of your DVD player - although that may change once next gen kicks in and you get HDMI inputs, which can push 720p (and theoretically 1080p).

As to whether they'll improve your picture quality also depends on the TV. My experience with progressive scan is that it makes the edges a little softer than what I would get with my Pixel Plus 2, which is why I use the latter via component for DVDs. However, generally images are smoother, colours are richer, and you can say goodbye to annoying dot crawl.

I'm sure there are others out there who can add to this, but IMHO at the moment, if you're using a sub 40" CRT, progressive scan via component is the way to go.

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