Starting to raid again with some friends...

Problem is.... I went with a bunch a vietnamese, I dont know the fights and dont know what they are talking at all!

like few mins b4 each fight I went wowhead and read and try my best to understand and learn it T_T

they are all geared and experienced so no fights are explained, they just tell me like 1 -2 lines of what to do

We are just doing normal one to gimme a taste on how it goes...

Heres my summary on what Ive known after everything:

1st bosses- the animals
p1- Just dps, if got adds kill it asap,
p2- kill acid first, if got poison run to fire to dispell
p3- just dps too, when knocked back and he prepares for change, just dont stand infront of him...

2nd boss- some demon
just dps him, if got mistress dps her then back to boss

3rd boss- arena thingy.
Oh god i hate this the most, was only told to stay on priest -> shaman
and survive!

4th boss- 2 flying white mob
err... click on the dark orb and just dps 1 mob, thats it
i saw wowhead so many switching thingy but i wasnt told to do any!
gg

5th boss-
save cd for p3!
Dps adds if got one. when boss digs underground and starts chasing u, make sure got ice in between us.
then i understand why save cd for p3! omg if im healing sure buttons start to fall off...


Thats it???

All the fights are over so fast that I dont know if there is something I should know about...

Can someone share more tips as a rogue on what I can do to ease my raid members life...

-edit for typo-

This post has been edited by alexision: Oct 10 2009, 12:09 AM

cause its normal...
try on heroic =p

1st bosses
p1- boss hits freaking hard, a DPS race before the next boss comes in, keep levitate up (since the fire debuff last the whole fight for heroic), management of itnerupts
p2- depends which worm u wanna kill first, the fire debuff will kill that some1 if u have 3 person with that debuff close to each other
p3- just that now u dun have the speed boost to run out of the ram way (not easy without swiftness pot at times)

2nd boss
the portal and volcano needs to be killed ASAP as they will throw unlimited ads
the mistress now silence/ interupt (can really wipe the raid)
takes much more heals for incinerate flesh

3rd boss
boss nerfed like mad on normal mode but on heroic they hit like a truck/ non tauntable
normally last 10+ minutes for me
basic pvp fight
as a holydin i need to div sac/ bubble combo, stun, silence, BoP, judge, dispel while healing

4th boss
big dps race to prevent the shield
hits a lot harder (especially the one without shield)
for 25man, u would need ppl to absorb the orbs so they dun reach the boss or the boss can really kill some1
change color on special ability of u die instantly (including tanks n heals)

5th boss-
only limited to 6 ice for the fight (so u gotta kite the boss in p2 - 10 to 20sec kite per target or you'll run out of ice)
ads comes in pair and keep coming (even in p3)
ads hits damn hard
small ads cant be taunted and hits like a truck when enrage (2-3 hits a healer)

for normal 10man?
jz zerg all of them and u will down it...
my guild run only take me 40min for normal (all 5 bosses)...
on heroic, it would take around 6hours-8hours...
should be much less now since finally confirmed on the strat now...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 10 2009, 05:30 AM

Thx god they nerfed heroic Icehowl.It was stupidly crazy hard to dodge his trample with 600ms+ streamyx latency.

u gotta position urself well before he knocks u back....
that way u can outrun him easily...
if needed pop ur swiftness potion...

Thanks for your comment evofantasy!

I'll be sure to keep those in mind, cant wait for my heroic taste xD

yup...
the fight is deeper than that...
jz that on normal mode once u are geared enuff, u can basically jz zerg through the bosses as long as i dun do stupid mistakes lol...
the heroic one is much more unforgiving (especially with the limited tries 25 45 and 50)...

hmmm there's not much tip for u...
ur role here would be mostly on ur interrupts...

boss 1
p1 just dps
p2 just dps (positioning is key if not fire debuff + sweep = dead on a slow heal)
p3 just dps (position for the trample is key)

boss 2
interrupt the boss's chain fel thingy
DPS the portal, mistress and volcano (dun dps infernals)
dun nuke the melee with the fire

boss 3
lock down a healer (u gotta repoison for this)
sap and tonnes of CC

boss 4
maximize ur dps with the orbs

boss 5
kite the boss in p2
kill the ads fast in p2
dps mad otherwise

mostly the important thing is knowing the fight and where to place urself...
survivability is an issue usually as a dead raid member is really punishing on heroic...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 10 2009, 06:23 PM

if you dont know the fight and your raid buddies doesnt do a good job explaining

visit sites like bosskilllers.com can be great help

and try start with normal mode first - its not 100% the same as heroic, but you will get a basic understanding how the fight goes, and how the bosses react

going straight headed into hardmode clueless is only advisable if your entire guild is well-geared, and you guys have good understanding on each other's skill - which is why most hardcore raiding is extremely taxing on both your skill, gear as well as your wallet

10man normal and 25man normal same easy?

ya u can say same as long as the players are of the same lvl...

normal is just normal
for heroic version, i would say just read abit and do it.
practise make perfect. eventhough there is 50 attempt only.

I went 25man normal pug today, well RL was from my guild so I could tag along... 1st bosses was easy, but for 2nd boss Im a big time noob...

I went into the fight with my mind thinking only 2 things, interrupt and kill mistress. But then I died on fire! boo! but I cant see it since Icehowl died at the middle and nobody can skin him. They tanked 2nd boss in the middle so when I dps him, I was somewhere hidden inside his body and totally forgot about fire. I bet dbm got announce but I dont know what was I busy looking. oh well, I got brez and learned from my mistakes... at least I did a good job at interrupts xD

then faction champions...

*&!^@*(^!@ the healer just wont die!!!

kick, kidneyshot, vanish and cheapshot all spam cukup cukup also still wont die...! so stress wei~ (ok maybe due to the fact that i hate and dont pvp much... but still!) twice he almost died but fear us all away~ gg no priest to mass dispell hots too =/

called it after 2 wipes...

and duno why but server abit weird, if whole raid goes bursty for the first few seconds of the fight... gg mass dc... lol!!

But raiding is sooooo fun xD

too bad I kept having lousy rolls =(

If the primary target is not dying fast enough, its normally either:

a. your CC on the other healers have gotten loose and your priests/shaman aren't dispelling/purging hots and buffs off him fast enough.
b. the pally bubbled him and the bubble wasn't removed fast enough, allowing their healers to get him up to 50% or more

I find the biggest key to success is having priests who WILL mass dis-spell. On good runs (normal or heroic) you often see the priests doing upwards of 150+ dispells in the fight. Very big difference

This post has been edited by patalim: Oct 12 2009, 09:53 AM

our top dispeller would be a pally with 60++
and 2nd on the list is <5...
We got a disc priest... mass dispell only for holy priest or any priest?
I'm not sure if that makes a difference since I've never played a priest before.

But it was really messy... no vent, just simple strategy b4 the fight at thats it. The priest kept getting death grip flying all over places -__-
Guild run with vent would be much neater...

normally on faction champs we train the DPS instead of the healers. As long as you keep the hots off the train you can burn them down fast enough.

depends on the lineup actually...
for normal mode, we usually just burst down 1 of the healer since they have already nerf the damage significantly (to the point u can just heal through their damage)...
with a bloodlust on pull, u can kill a healer even before the first cc break...

on heroic mode however, my team usually burst down a DPS then a healer while cc-ing the other healer...
with 1 dps down, healing becomes much easier or else we'll get nuked to death when DR kicks in...

the key to the fight is actually survivability...
with the right cc assignments, u would outlast them and finally kill them...
dun even bother to AoE since they break cc and it only deals 25% damage...

@ alex
usually a disc priest will be the one mass dispelling

@ evoshin
yup practice on heroic mode would make perfect (use all the 50 attempts to learn)...
for heroic mode, there would be a need to try and error some different strat till u got it right...
50 attempts is there but 25 attempts gives u an extra weapon and 45 attempts (just missed it this week 4% wipe at anub for 10 man zzz) give u cloak...
spend 1 week to decide on ur strategy and the following week would be very easy (reached anub with 48 attempts left this week vs 30+ last week)...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 12 2009, 01:48 PM

I got my first taste of 10man toc also... awesome... who knew a gnome warrior could tank the 2nd boss when at the start... the mage was one shotted

it was a gnome warlock...
since only locks can summon demons...
not a mage...

Just some revisions.


1st bosses- the animals
p1- Just dps, if got adds kill it asap. Don't stand in fire. Tanks must swap aggro after every 3 debuffs.

p2- kill acid first, if got poison run to the person in the raid that has the fire debuff to dispell the poison. For the first half of the fight when Acid maw is still alive, the Dreadscale tank usually has the fire debuff. After Acid Maw dies, anyone else in raid may have it instead.

p3- just dps too, when knocked back and he prepares for change as everybody must evade him by running to the sides where he isn't charging to, just dont stand infront of him... And if someone does get hit (and they will especially in a 25. Hunters must immediately cast tranq shot to dispel the enrage or the tanks die)

2nd boss- some demon
just dps him, if got mistress dps her then back to boss. When infernals spawn, the boss tank moves the boss away from the volcano and away from infernals that come nearby. Off tank must grab all infernals and if your a paladin to use hammer of justice. All ranged dps MUST dps the infernals while the melee focus on the boss. Nobody stand in fire. Boss must be interupted constantly when he tries casting anything. Anyone with debuff must stay away from raid and must be healed. Must DECURSE and spell steal.

3rd boss- arena thingy.
You get a random make up. But the usual strategy is to kill 1 or 2 healers first. The melee plate dps can be tanked by the 2 tanks in raid by constantly taunting when you lose aggro. The others especially warlock must be sheeped and ccd. When killing the first healer, the other healer must be interupted for example by a rogue. If the healer being killed first is a druid, a shaman must purge him to make his heals worthless so can dps down fast.

4th boss- 2 flying twin valkrys black and white
The white valkry tank click black orb. The black valkry tank click white orb. Tank both of them in the center between the 4 orbs. tanking positin can be changed depending on what strategy you prefer. I split dps to white and black. Dps all focus on the valkry that is trying to heal so can disrupt heal. If one of them tries to do vortex, everybody must be the same color as the valkry casting the vortex, for example if white valkry is casting vortex, everybody click white orb, vice versa.

5th boss-
save cd for p3!

During the entire fight, 1 or 2 range must help dps down the frost clouds to form ice on the ground. The first pair of elites to spawn must be tanked on ice or else they will burrow. The maintank must bring boss near to the ice. All dps must kill the 2 pairs of elites as it only takes 10 seconds or so. The next pair of elites can just be off tanked while the dps focus on the boss.

When the boss burrows undergerground all tanks grab small scarabs and dps kill them. 2 ranged dps still continously shoot down frost clouds. Whoever is being chased by the boss must make sure ice patches are between you and the boss.... patches will fade after boss hits them so that is why range dps shoot down frost clouds.

In the third phase, everybody blow your cooldowns and heroism. Max dps boss. For healing, do not heal anybody above 40% unless they are a tank. There is a healing mechanic here which means if you heal more above a certain threshold, you will be dealing more damage to the raid compared to the healing your throwing out then is worth it. Basically heals musn't fail here, and dps must go all out. It also helps having an uber main tank preferably a Paladin <3

if you have a lot of dks in the group you can chain death grip on the target. I've seen the pokok fly to the opposite side of the room once.

ya chain gripping to the middle away from their shaman totems FTW!

TOGC 10 is a joke.. anyone with 4800 gear score or more with a bit of brains can do it. I pugged TOGC 10 last week and got 25 tries tribute. Tribute to insanity is a diff story.. best be done with guildies or players who have experience.

missed the 45 attempts left with a 4 % wipe on anub this week =(

my other guildies missed insanity by 1 coz of 1 persons mistake...49 attempts.. lul

accessible raids are much better idea than a super tough raid that only 10% of players ever get the chance to get inside - MC, AQ, and original pre-60 Naxx for example

if challenge is what you want, there's always hardmode that wipes hardcore guild for breakfast

i also agree that now the toc10 is a joke.. haha..
and during for last toc 10 raid for twins fight... we didnt switch target at all, just pew pew grab orb and they die eventually.. lol

Of course you guys find it a joke knowing all the strats already (or have someone telling you what to do). The first week was thoroughly enjoyable as my guild went in guns blazing and blindfolded. The lack of trash was great.

i actually prefered having trash...
it adds variety and sorta set the pace a little...

@ spawn
yup the casuals would get to raids while the hardcore would enjoy the challenging raids...
healing on normal mode is just so relaxing compared to hardmodes...

everything is easy once you done it once
just need everyone to do their part

Our team did not have the luxury of strats when we tried TOC. Anyway, with mods like dbm and such, bosses are much easier to kill despite the more complex mechanics compared to vanilla bosses. If blizz does something to dis-allow mods like DBM or bigwigs from working, would be a whole diff story all together.

Some ppl still fail at twin valks with DBM warning flashing on screen to change color -.- wtf

actually blizzard themselves do announce to change color...
i usually raid wit my dbm off after knowing the fights and blizzard's default still let me know about the twin's ability...

h toc25man today...
wiped at around 1% 5 times...
before this wiped 20times on all sorts of stuff especially on p2
its like the moment 3mins ngam ngam on p3 sure wipe when he does his charge thing =/ if only blizz make him enrage like 10secs slower =(

actually p3 is the crucial part...
1 person got trample = cant beat enrage...
and the last trample, he'll enrage at the same time...
so if u guys manage to evade him, u would have around 20sec to burst him down when he is stunned...

Guild run on 10-man: still can't pass 3rd boss - arena team. Having problem to dps down the healers. Might be doing something wrong. The horde combo gotten was Resto Druid, Priest, Lock, Ench. Shaman, Rogue and Mage. So we tried to target the resto druid to die first, banish the Lock, sheep the mage, and tried to keep the rest away. Failed to even take down the first target.

Any advice.

As for Toc-25:
Recently just did a pug toc25 @anub, failed miserably after one of the off-tank decided to play god, kick ppl out without raid leader approval (comparing his dps gear (ilevel 245 to 258) with other dps gear (ilevel 226 to 232), brought his/her friend into the raid. Then this off-tank didn't want to tank the adds that come out, wiped the raid, scolded all dps as failure and quit the raid.

1. you shouldn't banish the lock because it wouldn't work chain banish the druid and chain fear it will do the job,the ench shaman i think you need to kite and burn down priest make sure you have cleave on the burn down target 24/7 other wise its point less

Our kill priority is always the Disc Priest > Shaman > Druid > Paladin for the healing npcs.

You will need a dedicated dispel/purge on the first kill target, and another dedicated CC on the other healer, purge everything on the kill target. So in your case, focus on the Priest and have your Warlock focus on the resto: banish, death coil, fear, Curse of Tongues. By then the priest should be dead. What you kill next depends on your raid health.

Remember, doing DPS isn't the issue in this fight, the key is control. If you have warriors in your raid telling them go Prot for multiple charge stuns and shield bash silences might be better. Mortal Strike debuff is nice but not really necessary. The Enhance Shaman and Rogue are harmless if they can't reach you, use roots, snares, stuns.

In my experience the Mage don't really do fatal damage, more like being an annoyance with the poly and frostbolt slows.

is it normal or heroic?
cause if it is normal, u are doing it rite to dps the healer...
if heroic, u are doing it wrong...
always go for a dps first or ur healers would never ever be able to keep up...
(the rogue in my team died before i could even BoP him)...

for that compo assuming normal mode, u are doing it wrong as well...
banish on the drood then dps burst on the priest...
it is the easiest to cc the drood of all/ pure n dispel...
after the priest is down, go for the shaman no thanks to his annoying totems then the rogue...
we normally leave the drood/ range last...

as for heroic...
banish the drood, another cc on priest and burst down the shaman...
once the shaman it dead (normally just in time for the first CC to break) go for the priest...
with the shaman down, it would be finally be healable (if u have paladins, blow div sac to absorb the initial crazy damage)...
then it is pretty much rogue, lock's pet, mage, lock then drood...
u can leave the drood last since he's easy manage...

---

Added on October 19, 2009, 5:33 pmbtw its vital to have communication for heroic mode to time the CC wells...
consider lucky not having boomkin with his crazy cyclone spam...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 19 2009, 05:33 PM

We usually burn 2 healers: Priest>Shaman. Then start to kill the most dangerous dps which is the Warrior before we start losing squishy clothies to him. (Ppl need to learn2gtfo from whirlwinds)
Then resuming to kill the remaining healers. Pally heals can interrupted easily with 1 enhancement shammy/rogue on him.

They've gone over the kill order, I'll fill in a lil on the more class specific details.

1. ALL priests, shadow, holy, disc, doesn't matter, all of them need to mass dispel. I pug it pretty often for fun, on successful attempts in 25 mans, its common to see the top priests doing 100+ dispels. Dispel the mobs, dispel your own people, make sure mass dispel is part of they rotation. On failed attempts, the first thing that normally sticks out is the lack of dispels.

2. Hunters should have Tranq shot as part of their rotation.
2a. Hunters should drop slowing traps, NOT freezing traps. It provide much better value considering how long they last as compared to the freezing ones.

3. Put a shaman on the kill target and have him on purge duty. He will spam Purge whenever there is ANY buff up on the target. If he's a healer, tell him that purge > heal unless someone is below 50% health. If its a bubble, purge > healing even if one person is down to 5% and has aggro! Other healers will cover his job

4. Last but not least, NO AOE!!!!!!! The cc guys are busy enough, don't make them work harder than they have to

Hope this helps

I am not getting drops