Sure we don't really have world class players there, but like I always say, this is the same group of players that win so many stuff over the last 3-4 seasons. They are obviously more than just decent player carried by the others. Fletcher have grown into one of our most important players.. Anderson and Nani have both showed that they have done much more in the first team than Fletcher had in the past at the same age. So they both have massive potential. We don't really have a problem in our CM IMO. Just waiting for Anderson to take a few more step forward and become an important player for us there.

As for the wing part, if Ribery was available at a price we were comfortable to pay, we would have gotten him already. Apart from him, there's no one else out there who we could get and would say improve on the ones we currently have. Valencia is still settling. Nani just needed to mature. Obertan and Ljajic have potential.. do remember where the likes of Giggsy, Ronaldo, Beckham came through.

Forget about AMs... we won't ever make use of them consistently. We don't play with a midfield 3 that often to make use of them. We usually play a midfield of 4 with two wingers and two CMs who must be able to defend properly. And AMs generally don't do well when they have to defend. Riquelme, Aimar etc.. they all play further forward.

He's not useless. He's just having consistency issues. He started the season well, then the international break came and we rotated the wings, and now he's back to square one. He just needs time to sort it all out. Fletch did. I'm not saying Nani will, but at least give him the chance to prove it.

As for Valencia, why not judge him mid/end season? Evra and Vida hardly set the world alight in their first 6 months. Since then they've been our first choice.

Ljajic won't, but Obertan will. As for how many games he will feature, god knows. But SAF seems to think he will play a part with his versatility and obvious potential. People will love him in no time once he steps on to the pitch and dribble past a few players each game, even if he doesn't have an end product to show for.

Every club does the selling bit. But we're just selling only if we have to(Rossi, Pique, contract expiring in a year, and Ronaldo.. wanted to leave and nobody could reject that amount I suppose), or those youngsters that don't quite make it. We're keeping everyone we want to keep and the good ones. I'm very happy with the transfer in and out ever since we got Saha. After that almost every signing have been great.

If he's effective, who cares how predictable he is. Right now he's still finding his feet and still haven't figure it out properly how to play things our way. I know he played with Wigan, but they're not ManUtd. We play things differently, not to mention most teams we play would defend most of the time with almost no space at all to exploit. He will improve by playing more games with us. I'm not sure why there's this mentality of expecting stuff to magically work in one season. Ronaldo took effectively 2-3 seasons to get to where he was. Fletcher took 5-6 seasons since he broke through to become a regular for us. We can wait two seasons at least for a new player to make his mark for us.

Evra showed promise.. yeah, bit like Valencia and Nani is showing/has shown. Evra came here when he was 25. He was the finished article. The only thing he needed to improve was his familiarity with the team, and tweak his game a bit to suit the hust and bustle of EPL, not to mention the way we play. Nani came here when he was 21 and he was one with the highest number of assists for our team in his first season. He wouldn't be able to achieve that if he was useless. When he was 22 he was going through that 2nd season syndrome and he struggled to find form when we preferred Park on the wings most time. Now 23.. only his third season here, he started the season well, but last 2-3 games he starts to play that clueless game again. But let's give him till the end of the season to fix things. But as Fletcher showed, it's when they're 24-26 they became consistent and playing with confidence and able to be a regular for a top team. Only those special players would be able to break through and stay there in the team since they're young. We can't expect every player to be special.

It's normal being a football fan. We watch game and we look Nani misplace another pass, Ben Foster make yet another mistake, we would curse them straight away at that time. Yet when they do something brilliant, get a goal, make a fantastic pass that lead to a goal, make a fantastic save, we would cheer. But looking at Fletcher's progress, and even I learned that just recently is that we should give young players(under 24/25) time to prove their worth in the first team. If it's like Miller/Djemba2 who was disappointing most of the time, then yes we should maybe move them on, but Nani has showed in a single season that he can provide goal scoring chances for us.. he has promise, just right now struggling with his consistency. I'm not saying we should criticize if they have a bad game, we do that for most players. That's normal. But don't write off their chances in the team so soon.

Like I maintained throughout, we are a bit spoilt having child prodigy in Rooney and Ronaldo at the club in their teenage years. Having seen them in the first team since forever, we expect every single player to have the same impact almost in the first team and be consistent as they were all the time. But as we know with young players, they're bloody inconsistent. Great one game, fecking terrible the next. Fletcher was like that.. and Nani is going through similar phase. Nani really need to improve though. Whatever he does, at least create a couple of chances.. right now he's going through some spiral blind tunnels with nothing to show for.. he should just whipped them crosses in a few times at least. He doesn't do that although he's well capable. He prefers to play with one defender over and over till he pass the ball back to someone if he doesn't lose it.

Then there's the no old man brigade. They would want those players that's in their thirties to be shipped off straight away and get new players as replacement. Hopefully the likes of VDS, Giggs, Scholes, Gary and soon Rio will show that when they're old, doesn't mean they would turn bad and can't run anymore overnight.

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Everyone was missing in that Barca game though. Ando was useless, Giggs can't do anything, and Carrick obviously can't hold that midfield on his own. IMO, in a 433 game, he's important for us. Stick him next to Fletcher and someone else, you would see our midfield work. Before his form dipped and Fletcher grew into the player he is today last year, I thought he was the important piece in the middle. Even though he's not as good as Scholes was/is, but his role in the team is of far more importance. Right now on a bad run of form.. but he will get that form back. November-December he should be back to his normal self.. unless Fletcher, Scholes and Ando keep him out of the team beyond that, but he should still get games.

This post has been edited by Wan: Sep 29 2009, 02:51 PM

I have free time last 2-3 months. Won't be free soon.

That, and/or a certain hairy English-Canadian.. Thank god he's back soon. If Fletcher is out, we can rely on him. CL 433.. midfield will fix itself as long as Fletcher is there and his partners do their job, but those supporting Rooney will have to do better than they have so far shown. We can't leave him so isolated upfront..

That Julio Cesar does look fantastic from youtube clips. Strong hands there. He's 30.. got his chance at Inter when he was 26(same age as Foster is now).. hardly heard of his name except last few years. I'm almost hoping VDS will be out a bit longer or won't straightaway get into the team just to see how Foster handle being a Utd GK for a few more months. If he doesn't do anymore mistakes in the next 3 games till VDS get's back, we should keep him there till mid season and see how things goes. We can use VDS in the 2nd part of the season where the games will be of higher importance and give Foster runs out in the cup games, and a few league games. Even if VDS decides to stay in goal next season for us, we should just give that experience to Foster if we can afford it.. I just can't see us getting in another GK that would guarantee success there in goal unless we spunk over 30m for one. That Barca GK.. Casillas.. they all broke through since they were young.. if they can have that chances, we can give it to Foster too to see how he develops.

Did you say the same thing about Fletcher? He was poor for a few years. He was just the extra leg in midfield to cover Keane and Scholes. He showed nothing more. Then he gradually improved and became a regular in midfield for us. The same could happen for Nani. And why not. He's only 23.

2 goals, 2 assists so far. Good start to the season if we compared that number to last season. I understand your frustrations.. he really need to turn it on soon if not he'll be off. But like I always said, those under 24/25 are inconsistent and don't really play with the confidence needed to stamp their mark on games. Seems SAF is happy enough to still play him in games. Before Giggsy started to deliver again on the wings last few weeks, I would say our season depended a lot on him to deliver.. that's still the case as we can't expect Giggsy to turn it on every time and play all the time. So Nani does have to step up.. but we may have to play the waiting game on him for another season looking at things. But he'll do better this season compared to last. We can afford to play two attacking wingers this time round rather than have someone to look after the defensive side of things on the other side of Ronaldo.

It won't be too much trouble to look for another GK to act as backup. Can get an up and coming one at a lower league or someone experience like Ricardo etc. I wonder if we can persuade VDS to stay another season to see things through with Foster.. that would definitely be one I would want right now. Foster taking over permanently next season with VDS as that safety net.

Only IF Foster pass the test given to him this season that is..

This post has been edited by Wan: Sep 29 2009, 03:48 PM

Darren Fletcher:
2002–03 2 0
2003–04 35 0
2004–05 30 3
2005–06 41 1
2006–07 40 3
2007–08 24 2
2008–09 42 4
2009–10 6 2

He was more than just a bench player. Those days we played with 3 in the middle if you remember. He was always part of that. Fletcher showed in the big games that he can really play, but come the normal games he disappeared for some weird reason. That's when people say he's a bit limited I guess. That continued even into 06/07.. but that season he played a lot better as a whole and doesn't always look limited in the games he had. But still he didn't dominate the way he is now. It was only last season things started to work for him in every game. And in 05/06, he lost his place when Keano retired, Scholes got injured with that eye injury to O'Shea-Giggs combo in midfield.

Oh come on. You think we're blind. I'm not saying we should give every single player games or keep them when it was obvious they're consistently shit.. and looking at their current ability+potential, their performances in the team, their contribution.. if they're not up to mark, I won't say no to moving them on. It depends on the quality. Some players you know straight away won't provide much other than just another body to choose from. Evans always had quality. Fletcher.. well, he was highly regarded as a kid. Chadwick showed nothing much other than a few trick to beat his man. Eagles and Richardson both showed they are average on the wings. Can't beat their man, can't provide any decent balls into the box.. never once did they really impress for us. Djemba2(left when he was 24) obviously failed here. Kleberson(24-26) struggled with injuries and didn't adapt to the league. Both of them showed nothing of the sort of performance Nani did in his first season here. They both had just around 15 starts for us both season, and never really impress except for a few games. Everyone of those had their chances for a few seasons before we flogged them off.

I would understand totally where you come from if Nani indeed have been inconsistent from the very start. But from the tone of your post, it's obvious you're just looking at the recent season that just past rather than his whole career here. Nani showed in his first season he can be very good for us from the wings. He doesn't quite manage to play that way last season, but still showed in some games that he has the ability to trouble and create chances for us. This season has been a mixed bag for him. He started the season well, then he sort off had a bad few games. But as always the talent is there. Now he just need to make use of it better which would come with age. Hopefully he does it this season. His spot should be save unless we can prise away Ribery/Messi. Can't see anyone else I want for that winger spot other than those two, and Ronaldo of course.

Ronaldo had 4 seasons before he conquered everything. Started from 03/04 till 06/07 when he just became the best player around. And before that there were even doubts from our own fans whether he would be consistent enough to be a top winger for us. But ihs talent and potential was there for all to see. He was younger too that time compared to Nani, but again we can't compare everyone to those special ones. Everyone else would look quite average. Ruud joined us after he turn to 25. Two years older than Nani is right now. You're basically written him off even from last season if I remembered it correctly unless I mistaken it for someone else.

Of course Giggsy won't last that much longer. That's why we have the likes of Park and Valencia around to be that experience guys should anything go wrong in the short term. Nani will soon step up you feel.. and then there's Obertan and Ljajic.

Just a question, who would you get to play on the wings for us? Messi and Ribery seems to be out of our reach. Ronaldo is at 'his home'. Like the GKs, there's just a lack of quality out there atm..

Yeah, Nani have been pretty disappointing since his debut season, save for a few good games here and there. He started this season quite well I thought, but seems to return to his shell last two games especially. But it's only the start of the new season. Hopefully things will pan out better for him this season. With Ronaldo gone, maybe we can have two wingers doing their thing rather than cover defensively on one side.

Park can be very good in some games, but in some games he can truly be ineffective too. If he has better control, touch and finishing, he would be a great player. Right now he's just a good player IMO. He's the opposite of Valencia really. Very good coming inside, but pretty woeful going outside, while with Valencia it's the other way round. Nani seems to be good on both, but as we know, he's inconsistent. When he's in that kind of form, he's would mess everything up. Simple pass, movement etc.. all wouldn't work for him. Hopefully that Obertan kid has something special about him.. a surprise perhaps.

He will be back in the game after Sunderland.. Bolton I think in 2-3 weeks time. That's what SAF said. He's back in training though.

Nani just doesn't run at defenders the same way. That's why he's not as effective. Ronaldo would just drive at them at speed. Giggs would leave the defenders with twisted blood.. while Nani would go around in circles in slow motion almost most of the time, beating the same guy over and over. That's on his good days. On his bad days even that he can't manage. He need to learn from Valencia a bitm and incorporate that with his skills.. add both qualities together, he would be far more effective. Beating a guy on the outside and crossing it in can't be that hard.

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Added on September 30, 2009, 12:42 amPark is out with a virus.. Evra was out too after the Stoke game but recovered in time. Park suap sup to the both of them while Evra is in bed, that's why Park got the virus too I bet. Owen had a groin problem, although not serious. But SAF won't use him unless he has from his tone..

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_5593263,00.html

This post has been edited by Wan: Sep 30 2009, 12:42 AM

They look really great good forward. Fluid.. and they always have more players attacking than Liverpool defending for some reason.

Tosic is well down the pecking order. He's even behind Welbeck for that spot(Carling Cup recently). I believe it will be a while before we can count on him to contribute in the first team. Well, this is only the start of Nani's third season.. let's see how he does mid season. He really need to turn it on this season.. or next at a push.

Everybody knew he was something special when he broke through at Everton. SAF initially didn't want to buy him straightaway after that Euro I think.. but Newcastle came in with a bid making us move for him. Thank god! Imagine, a season after that Roman bought Chelsea over... haha, instead of cursing Drogba, we could have been cursing Rooney..

No idea what happened to him. His first game against Spurs last season he showed good ability. A bit like Park, but just not as busy and with better control. Since then it's like he's been asked to play like a traditional winger, and he so far haven't really impress. Doesn't really have the pace to beat his man, not much variety in his play too.. defenders easily blocked him. Maybe he's better playing on the right coming inside..

Wonder if we will go with 433 as we usually do in CL.. hope not, but it's the CL.

Fletcher-Scholes-Ando
Valencia-Rooney-Nani

Rest Giggs for the weekend?

Reported for spam!

We should be more worried about his teammates, Dzeko(36 goals last season) and that Grafite(28 goals last season?).

Rooney is not turning it on last 2 games or so.. should we be worried that he will be on a drought? I just hope even if his goalscoring touch ain't quite there, he would bring still bring his football boot and brain to the pitch with him.

A bit of both.
It's hard playing away in the CL, no matter what team it is. Just look how we struggled a bit in Turkey last week.. or few weeks back.

This post has been edited by Wan: Sep 30 2009, 09:25 PM

Not sure about wmv formats.. didn't search, but mostly people use avi.

But go here..
http://www.erightsoft.com/Superdc.html

Download and install that. Then just convert the vid to wmv format. Choose no change on the resolution thing..

Matchday thread open. F5 button at the ready...

* 29 Tomasz Kuszczak
* 3 Patrice Evra
* 5 Rio Ferdinand
* 7 Michael Owen
* 8 Anderson
* 10 Wayne Rooney
* 11 Ryan Giggs
* 15 Nemanja Vidić
* 16 Michael Carrick
* 22 John O'Shea
* 25 Antonio Valencia

Substitutes

* 12 Ben Foster
* 6 Wes Brown
* 9 Dimitar Berbatov
* 17 Nani
* 18 Paul Scholes
* 20 Fabio
* 24 Darren Fletcher

Coach

Sir Alex Ferguson
VfL Wolfsburg

* 1 Diego Benaglio
* 4 Marcel Schäfer
* 5 Ricardo Costa
* 7 Josué
* 9 Edin Džeko
* 10 Zvjezdan Misimović
* 13 Makoto Hasebe
* 17 Alexander Madlung
* 20 Sascha Riether
* 23 Grafite
* 25 Christian Gentner

Substitutes

* 12 André Lenz
* 11 Obafemi Martins
* 14 Jonathan Santana
* 15 Karim Ziani
* 19 Peter Pekarík
* 24 Ashkan Dejagah
* 43 Andrea Barzagli

Coach

Armin Veh

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Added on October 1, 2009, 1:56 amUnless that guys lying.. haha. quite weird lineup.

This post has been edited by Wan: Oct 1 2009, 01:56 AM