Closely after Kakuta, Pogba, Today latest:






As for Liverpool case, nothing solid as the player YET to join Liverpool.


For now, all I see is English clubs being reported one after another.Does that mean another big clubs in La Liga and Serie A do not raid small clubs for their young unpolished gem?

This post has been edited by solstice818: Sep 8 2009, 03:14 PM

I just hope that a consistent punishment....what about all major club ban for 2 transfer window..? Hehhe...got what I mean...no club is free from poaching...It just high profile case or low profile case...

About Kakuta..they report to FIFA after Chelsea dont want to pay the unnecessary amount of money to silent them..and now they talked about rich and money...Hippocratic

to be honest...english club really like to pouch underage youngster from abroad....italy i dunno...but at spain big club at there seldom pouch underage youngster from abroad...look at barca n real madrid...

I would be really happy if FIFA are continuously trying to look at these matters. Poaching activities should not be allowed, as it always benefits big clubs with huge financial backing.

As you can see, only EPL clubs are being accused of poaching. IMO, it is because only EPL teams have the advantage of doing so. La Liga and Serie A clubs can only tie above-17 youngsters with a professional contract, so how can they 'poach' a 16 years old youngster?

if more and more clubs reported to poach youngsters,i think it's time for FIFA to be more strict with the rules.my suggestion:
1)lower the age limit for a professional contract
2)set rules for all nation that no under 18 players allowed to move out of the club.unlike certain countries such as Brazil and Argentina where players cannot be transfer abroad,the rule should be more strict and not allow players to move away from the club's academy.

What next? Below then 5, 6 years old `signed` up by MU, Chelseas, Barcelonas, etc?

Spanish clubs do poach players. Even if they don't sign professional terms, a youth contract is still a contract. And taking 14-15 year olds from South America or Africa to put them into the academy is also poaching talent no matter how you look at it. Messi anyone? Probably the difference is that the Spanish and Italian clubs pay some form of compensation when they take these talents over. English clubs however have tried to totally screw smaller European clubs by taking their talent for free. I may be wrong though and I'm sure it doesn't represent the behaviour of all or most English clubs; just a minor few.

I knew it, that somebody will bring up his name.

Messi's situation looks like Kakuta's, except that Messi was dumped by Newell's Old Boys, while River Plate refused to sign him because of his medical bill. Simply put, the difference is, Messi was clubless when Barca came 'poaching' him, while Kakuta already had a pre-agreement with Lens. We can safely say Chelsea poach Kakuta from Lens illegally, but whom did Barca poach Messi from?

Yeah, I realize about the youth contract. Italian clubs also use such contracts for their youngsters. So doesn't it mean Spanish and Italian clubs could also seek for compensations? For instance, the Cesc case, can't Barca claim anything?

I use to think that Arsenal 'poach' legally because they pay the compensation for Cesc to Barca, and Barca was angry because they felt that the amount was too small. Not sure though, it is just my assumption.

You think Messi just happens to migrate to Barcelona in young age

Dunno much about contract, but didn't youngster sign YTS form before they are 17 or 18 in England? The only screw up is in other country, youngster are just a trainee without any contract? So it bound to happens English clubs take advantage of this.
Its like whole loads of free agent out there, why not pay peanuts for outstanding talents though it doesn't means these youngsters will all make it. I don't see any difference in way that eg: Barca got Messi from his Argentina club when he's young to the way English clubs operate.
But it only means there's dearth of talents in England when they go around world looking for young talents. Just see Fabian Delph whisch cost a bomb even though he never played in top flight.

Don't think they got for free. Most of the time its a fee set by tribunal because as always, reluctant seller will wanna sell high & buyer wanna buy low, in this case is possible due to lack of contract binding youngster with clubs

I'm not so sure about calling those paying compensation as "legal poachers" as from what I know, those being reported are deemed to be put on inducements to the players to void their contracts or whatsoever.The focus is more onto the inducements, no?

This post has been edited by solstice818: Sep 8 2009, 05:38 PM

cesc to arsenal poached meh? i tot they paid compensation to barce already? no? it was legal what just a transfer.

english club are being reported cos english clubs usually try to muscle the small club into submission meaning big club throw money at the youngster and parents and they abandon the small club leaving them with nothing.

i think italy and spain does it but as usually english league get more airtime so more ppl are aware of the complains and more and more are reporting the big clubs

I was just giving an example. There are plenty of other South Americans who have been brought to Europe at a very young age but Messi so happens to be the most high profile one.

Yes River Plate couldn't afford his treatment but he was still training with Newell's. And seeing that nothing was paid for them for training him it is still a form of poaching as well. But legally of course Barca didn't do anything wrong. I'm hardly pointing fingers at Barca here. Lens actually asked for a fee from Chelsea which they refused to pay; offering a substantially and mockingly lower offer.

If i recall correctly Arsenal did not pay anything initially. It was only after the case was brought before a tribunal that Arsenal were "ordered" to pay the compensation. Or I may have confused him with Merida which was a similar case.

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Added on September 8, 2009, 5:44 pmI think we can say that inducements to players or their parents to void their contracts should be illegal. When I say compensation I mean a certain fee paid to the clubs who trained them

This post has been edited by verx: Sep 8 2009, 05:44 PM

Yes, indeed.

IMO, the reason why Man Utd managed to poach Macheda (as in Cesc's case) with ease was because they were only required to pay very minimal amount of compensation, since he was signed near the end of his youth contract. It sounds legal, no?

On the other hand, the inducement that Chelsea offered to Kakuta was because they couldn't find a way to buy out the pre-agreement. How to evaluate a pre-agreement? So they had to convince Kakuta to dishonor the agreement and leave Lens, with the thought that the pre-agreement is not regarded as a kind of a contract by FIFA. Maybe that is where Chelsea got it wrong.

But it seems that they are saying the referred to UEFA before going ahead. But we dont know the real story.

As it seems so Macheda and Cesc are actually legal transfers rather than calling it poaching.

http://www.youth2youth.com.au/article54.asp

See point 3.

This confirms what i was thought in unis - minors cannot enter into a legally binding contract? And any such contract is a waste of paper until ratified by the minor when he/she reaches legal maturity?

So what of youth contract?

Hmm... but it seems that apprenticeships are legally binding under common law

This post has been edited by madmoz: Sep 8 2009, 06:19 PM

I knew this would happen - as soon as Chelsea gets the punishment, all the smaller clubs will be out to get the "big guns"!

In many cases, the so-called "big clubs" do a bit of "poaching talent" or whatever you want to call it. It may be legal, but is it ethical? IMO, unless it's proven illegal, it's pretty unethical - but until the rules are changed (which will be hard to do, considering EU laws on movement of workers), all clubs are going to use any loophole they can get to purchase the players they want.

That's not to say only the English teams do it, some are reporting the movement of youth from Africa and South America to France and Spain to be a form of poaching as well. I can't say much about the legalities of youth contracts in France, Spain, etc. but in England, I think the 90-minute rule has been on of the causes these players are uprooted.

The rule was set by the FA, saying that clubs cannot sign players under a certain age into their academies if they lie within a "90-minute" radius from the club HQ. For instance, Liverpool FC cannot sign a young player from London because they are outside this radius.

What happens with this is that some of the best players in the country are stuck where they are (i.e no "big" clubs can take them until they're of a certain age). And worse, most clubs are stuck with the choices available - think about it. In the North-West of England, you have clubs like Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton, Blackburn and Bolton all pulling from the same pool of players.

This causes them to look elsewhere, and rules in France, Spain, etc. that limit youth players contract lengths or don't allow clubs to sign contracts with youth become the victims of the English clubs' plunder. All is apparently legal under UEFA.... but let's see if it continues to stay legal and if FIFA or UEFA will put in a new rule to prevent this from occuring again.

I dont think is wrong to pouch youngsters. Clubs especially english clubs uses the crack of the current football law to improve their team. Since the youngster does not have any legally binding with the their team, what is wrong if they decided to join a bigger team to train them up? Clubs like Chelsea paid Kakuta's parent a sum of money may sounds wrong, but at the end of the day Kakuta decided to join Chelsea. So I do not see anything wrong.I think new rule to prevent these incident to happen will be implement

the problem lie over here is not over Player issue, is the club
imagine u running a club and spending million on youth academy, some club just raid your bright young player without paying any compensation, what will u feel?

I thought Man Utd produce own young players rather than stealing from others...

Beckham, Neville, Giggs...are all from the great academy of Man Utd...

Maybe you guys should add Rio Ferdinand, Rooney, Paul Ince and Ronaldo to the list...

Blue part:That doesn't mean they wont raid other clubs for youngsters...

Red part:

And what? LOL This coming from a manutd fans? Ferdinand from manu academy?Rooney?Ronaldo?Ince? You made my day.

You are as good entertainer as Golden...

This post has been edited by solstice818: Sep 9 2009, 02:01 AM