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 Bodybuilding Thread V6, Bodybuilding Discussion

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ken86
post Feb 11 2010, 09:28 AM

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I had a debate about milk with a guy recently at the gym

Now, the person I was talking to at the gym was defending his skim milk usage. His main argument was simply this: "I drink it and I'm fine! Doesn't hurt me!"

Thing was, it did seem to be hurting him.

Or at least in the three years I'd known him I'd never seen him reduce the size of his gut, even though he trained hard at least 4-5 days a week.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you're still fat after years of gym-going, then something is wrong, most likely your diet. Everyone say it together now: You can't out-train a bad diet!

Thing was, I don't think he "knew" he had a bloated, overly-fat belly. Denial is a powerful thing. I spent a while swimming down that river in Egypt myself, so I know.

Or maybe some people would rather be "right" than be healthy and lean?

Anyway, the whole incident reminded me of something all of us need to keep in mind: Is what we're doing (eating plan, training style, etc.) really working for us?

Too often we vehemently defend our diets or our preferred training methods without really taking a step back and saying, "Okay, is it working for me?

is it just me or most of you are having a gut/muffin top and looking to lose that, and what you are doing is clearly not giving the results, why not take a NEW approach. If you are happy with your physique, keep at it ! and more power to you !.

happy cny peeps and time to set new goals.
ken86
post Feb 11 2010, 09:41 AM

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sorry to break the news to you

your problem is not unique and ur bodyfat levels are high, you just need to get leaner. DOn't worry 99.9999% of the crowd "that assumed they are the discerning bunch" I train with refused to accept that even ME until I decide to go a fat loss cycle.

No matter how many leg crunches or abdominals exercise u do, The visceral fat on the abdominals is gonna stay unless u diet it away or get leaner.

PS. hate to be the bad news bearer

This post has been edited by ken86: Feb 11 2010, 09:42 AM
ken86
post Feb 11 2010, 11:42 AM

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QUOTE(ken86 @ Feb 11 2010, 09:28 AM)
I had a debate about milk with a guy recently at the gym

Now, the person I was talking to at the gym was defending his skim milk usage. His main argument was simply this: "I drink it and I'm fine! Doesn't hurt me!"

Thing was, it did seem to be hurting him.

Or at least in the three years I'd known him I'd never seen him reduce the size of his gut, even though he trained hard at least 4-5 days a week.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you're still fat after years of gym-going, then something is wrong, most likely your diet. Everyone say it together now: You can't out-train a bad diet!

Thing was, I don't think he "knew" he had a bloated, overly-fat belly. Denial is a powerful thing. I spent a while swimming down that river in Egypt myself, so I know.

Or maybe some people would rather be "right" than be healthy and lean?

Anyway, the whole incident reminded me of something all of us need to keep in mind: Is what we're doing (eating plan, training style, etc.) really working for us?

Too often we vehemently defend our diets or our preferred training methods without really taking a step back and saying, "Okay, is it working for me?

is it just me or most of you are having a gut/muffin top and looking to lose that, and what you are doing is clearly not giving the results, why not take a NEW approach. If you are happy with your physique, keep at it ! and more power to you !.

happy cny peeps and time to set new goals.
*
just to add -
more CNY wisdom for CFB (current fat bast*rd)

I told some fat people recently that they couldn’t out train a bad diet. Some were offended. They thought that as long as they trained hard on some high intensity circuit type workout a few days a week they would get lean.
They won’t. Nobody gets lean from doing kettlebell swings and burpees. If you’re eating clean, these will help, but unless your diet is spot on you aint losing an ounce. All the exercise in the world will do you no good without eating properly. These are the cold, hard facts and something I noticed , my friends.
ken86
post Feb 11 2010, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(pizzaboy @ Feb 11 2010, 01:20 PM)
*
metalfreak - I never mention diet > training , diet and training to elicit the best effect. Correct extra virgin olive oil has terrible smoke point and oxidizes quickly rendering it useless (the good parts).

I cook with extra virgin coconut oil or macadamia nut oil. I pour my oils into a comestic spray can and spray it. The metal spray like PAM cost a ton.

Pizza - hmm I tried PSMF aka Protein-only diet when my fat loss stalls for 2 weeks. I had great results but it was mentally and physically very challenging.

My diet template for PSMF
Meal 1: 12 egg whites or 6 egg whites and 3oz cooked chicken
Meal 2: 40g protein from whey protein isolate in water
Meal 3: 6 oz chicken and 1 cup asparagus
Meal 4: same as meal 2
Meal 5: same as meal 3
Meal 6: same as meal 1

Change it to suit your needs, alternate it one day protein + fat one day protein + veggies and progress accordingly whenever fat loss stalls. I highly recommend not doing it for too long, maybe it will help kickstart your client's progress


Added on February 11, 2010, 3:11 pmjust to add
-don't forget at least 2 servings of metamucil or psyllium husk. You don't want bowel problems
- Some fish oil and evening primose oil (GLAs are good for you)
- Lots of green tea and occasional diet soda to stay sane

This post has been edited by ken86: Feb 11 2010, 03:11 PM
ken86
post Feb 19 2010, 10:12 AM

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QUOTE(uncontrolled @ Feb 18 2010, 08:34 PM)
Hi guys,
1. Just wanna ask how much carbs and calories should I consume per day?!
I usually workout 3--4 times per week. After workout I will consume 1 scoop of ON Whey(24g protein).

2. Should I consume whey on normal day?! I mean without workout but only cardio.

3. Should I strictly follow the nutrition value in every single meal to maintain a good body shape?! (usually I just eat without consider hw much of carbs,protein,fat, calories does the food contain)

Thanks
*
ok i got ur pm and will reply here

1. really vague, can't tell x amount of carbs or y amount of calories without knowing your weight ? how do u look like currently ?
Generally, a good starting point will be multiplying your lean body weight x 15 and add 500 - 1000 calories to that. You'll have to experiment with this. If u have a crazy-ass metabolism (ectomorphs not skinny fat people) you probably want to start at 500-1000 calories over maintenance. If you have a slow metabolism you would want to start at about ~500 calories over predicted maintenance.

Divide the protein , carbs and fats accordingly. 40/40/20, 33/33/33 (zone approach), etc.
Some thrive on high fat, high protein while some thrive on high carb, high protein. Very individual thing and depending on your goals.

A good start will be
i) eliminate high GI foods like noodles, roti canai, chapati, whatever made of white flour, or anything white like what johnny bowden said (perhaps ?)
ii) drink more water
iii) eat more dead animal flesh

2. Whey protein is like convenient food , you can take it anytime you want but it's best to take it postworkout as it is absorbed quickly (particularly whey protein isolate, hydrolysate(the higher the degree the of hydrolysis the faster)

3. what's your definition of good body shape ? if u are asking that, you probably don't have one right now so go figure.




ken86
post Feb 19 2010, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(uncontrolled @ Feb 19 2010, 07:05 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Thanks for answering yea!!! =p

==>My height is 172cm,weight 68kg. I look 'fit' but i am not. I mean I am not fat or skinny with 'fit look' but with soft muscle.
Do you mean the calculation for calories intake is like this?! (68kg x 15)+500 calories *assume that i have slow metabolism rate.

==>'Divide the protein , carbs and fats accordingly. 40/40/20, 33/33/33 (zone approach),' I dont really understand what you are mention about. Sorry~

haha..my defination of good body shape is getting fit, with 'hard' muscle,6pack, etc. and of coure healthier. ^^
*
oh lord fit look but with soft muscle = skinny fat in my book. sorry as my muscles are hard.

68kg (convert to lbs) x 15 + 500

40/40/20 = % of each macronutrient (protein, carbs, fat) = P%, F% C%
ken86
post Feb 20 2010, 05:08 PM

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QUOTE(mrPOTATO @ Feb 20 2010, 04:37 PM)
Everywhere i read, it says sleeping time is catabolic and muscle breaks down during sleep.

On the other hand, everyone seems to say we grow when we sleep.

I don't seem to be able to reconcile both of these statements. Is there something i don't 'see' ?
*
are you even eating enough during the day to worry bout this, you are definitely still small and weak, so quit worrying about small details like this.

angrydog - we have to be precise man... training is like conducting an experiment, miss the time by a split second , you miss that highly anabolic hypertrophy response by 200%
ken86
post Feb 23 2010, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(olkooi @ Feb 23 2010, 08:55 AM)
Hey,

What will be a good replacement for DL and squat? I cant do workouts that are too demanding on my knees.

Peace
*
Read this
http://www.wannabebig.com/training/bodybui...with-bad-knees/

I highly suggest sled dragging with a big ass tractor wheel (steal it or ask for it, check the yellow pages) or substituting it with car pushes
ken86
post Feb 23 2010, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(mrPOTATO @ Feb 23 2010, 10:19 PM)

Is it quite inevitable, normal and even a pre-requisite to have some padding around the mid in order to bulk ? From yr pm & angrydog's foto, i surmise it is. Just wanna be sure before i go down that path because looking at my pouch last time really turns me off.
*
depends on ur genetic makeup and how well your nutrient partitioning system works (genetic as well) seriously, some b*stards don't seem to store any fat in the mid section. But if u are just starting out and is skinny fat, eating better and more frequent plus training hard is gonna make that pouch of yours firmer.

PS. Angrydog is not fat
ken86
post Mar 4 2010, 11:29 AM

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I was reading the purposeful primitive and came across this

user posted image

the whole idea is whether determine if you want to add muscle or lean out. Pick one. Determine how many days you have to train. Select a weight training template that syncs up with your available
days. Devise a 6 to 12 week periodization plan. Start with the desired end goal and work backwards to the start date, establishing small weekly benchmarks for each lift and for bodyweight. Lifting performance needs to be nudged upward weekly, in some manner or fashion. We synchronize nutrition and cardiovascular exercise with resistance training to accelerate progress. Regardless the selected direction (add muscle, lose fat) rest assured that
if you abide by the precepts and principles, if you generate the requisite training intensity, the body has no choice, but to accede to your self-imposed biologic imperatives

very powerful and simple things that most neglect[CODE]

This post has been edited by ken86: Mar 4 2010, 11:36 AM
ken86
post Mar 4 2010, 12:49 PM

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swks = decrease cals = calories

jamis - what on earth is JW321 ?

I do say a good base to start with for cardio, let says steady state in our case would be 30 minutes and adding it progressively.

Steady state cardio is not the only form of energy system work, get creative with stuffs like HIIT, car pushing, sled dragging, tire flipping, smashing the tire with sledgehammer, sprints, boxing, etc
ken86
post Mar 4 2010, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(jamis @ Mar 4 2010, 03:29 PM)

Sorry sorry, it is suppose to be Jim Wendler 321 raw strength program biggrin.gif.

icic i plan to start with HIIT. But HIIT itself lasted around 12mins. If 30mins... thats mean i can proceed to other steady state cardio stuff (i mean if i still can proceed)?
is 5/3/1. I saw ur log, you need to lower the poundages seriously, assuming is your first cycle and u are getting bout 5 -7 reps on the 5 day, U are gonna stall real bad in probably max 1 -2 cycles.

My first cycle - 5 rep day
Military Press - 115 x 10
Squat - 225 x 12
Deadlift - 315 x 14
Bench Press - 165 x 11

I've been progressing pretty well for 5 cycles now and keeping my reps high. Is all about long term progress, start light mate !

Natural test booster may increase you free testosterone level, while it may increase your sex drive, but how many of the free levels are actually testosterone of the anabolic variant. Even arginine is known to cure penis erectile dysfunction by promoting blood flow to your wiener but well based on research (not really a fan) and experience, it does little to promote muscle gain, maybe the pump.

Besides that you aren't even getting the basics right and considering test boosters ?! You all know who I'm talking about. We all have the guy(s) who come into the gym with all the gear necessary to equip a small Mexican village. They have the latest in Pre-workout supplements. You know the ones that increase protein synthesis up to 40002% per workout. And, have psycho-rage focus excelerators that help you stay ultra-intense for up to 13 days per serving. Plus, they have beta-alanine for tbose who want to look and feel like they have Parkinson's.

ken86
post Mar 4 2010, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(jamis @ Mar 4 2010, 05:59 PM)
Great reference for the cycle Ken.

Get ur idea on the Booster. Just getting too excited aft seeing my fren bought in one huge s root in the gym lol.

Thanks in million buddy.
*
must start light, that's the whole idea of 5/3/1. I have a max military press of 70kgs x 2 reps, I started at 135lbs as my 5/3/1 max so i could progress further and longer. same goes for bench (255lbs), I started with 200 lbs as my 5/3/1 max. same goes for deadlift and squat. try to not rely on training aids like belts, straps.

5/3/1 is good as it also incorporates the whole auto-regulation idea. If you feel like a million bucks, go ahead and try for a rep max. If you're feeling sloppy, hit the prescribed reps(which may be hard but doable) and move on.

I have a theory to see whether I m prime (CNS wise or whatever they call it) for that day by testing my vertical jump. When it's about 32-33 inches, I know I have a good day ahead. When it's about 25-27 inches, I know a rough day is awaiting.

shane - is in lbs, I think I'd have a dilated bleeding anus (from shitting bricks) as well if it was in kgs.
ken86
post Mar 11 2010, 02:29 PM

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PB - where do you get ur betaine HCL from ? True Protein ?

I heard great things bout acidophilus products for digestive system and nootropics to aid in recovery.

My current offseason diet

meal 1:
oats, a bit of fruit, and "milk" made with whey, casein, almond butter, and macadamia nut oil

meal 2:
whole eggs, a bit of oatmeal

meal 3:
beef, a bit of brown rice, and some raw nuts

meal 4:
same as meal 1

meal 5:
beef, huge salad, extra virgin olive oil

meal 6:
either whole eggs and a bit of milk, or salmon, salad with balsamic and olive oil

night-time shake:
whey, casein, mac. nut oil

note the word a bit as I m too lazy to quantify it latelyyy.. mmmm I love food.
ken86
post Mar 17 2010, 10:42 PM

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How do u keep the hardboiled eggs darklight ? they seem to go stale pretty fast in containers.

Here's a tip for those who can't stomach 10 egg whites

What I do
No-Carb Pancakes

In a blender, put in 10-12 egg whites, a few tsp of psyllium husk and a few dash of cinnamon powder (You can add some CHOC whey powder for a chocolatey pancake). and blend it under the lowest speed for a few minutes.

then pan fry it. It will come out nicely like a pancake and if you want some good fats, spread some peanut butter on it and consume.


ken86
post Apr 4 2010, 09:37 AM

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QUOTE(uhuk-uhuk @ Apr 4 2010, 03:56 AM)
I've been cutting for the past 4 weeks following an 8-month bulking phase from which I gained 17 kg (70kg ==> 87kg).

My daily calorie intake is 2500 which is roughly 500 below maintenance. I'm doing cardio too (I've never done cardio while bulking). The problem now is that I'm losing too much mass. I've lost 6 kgs in the past 4 weeks. My arms have gone down by 1/2 an inch and my shoulders have shrunk. I know that I'm losing fat too cause my love handles are reducing in size but the loss of muscle mass is pretty darn devastating.

Do you guys think that this is normal or should I up my calorie intake? Am really hoping to get some sound advise as I really want to PRESERVE my mass while losing fat. Thanks.
*
You need to post some pics, People get paranoid during cutting phase and there are too many possibilities - too little carbs (looking flat). And a 500 caloric deficit with 6kgs a month is quite good progress but hard to judge without any pics.
ken86
post Apr 6 2010, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(pizzaboy @ Apr 6 2010, 10:17 AM)
Do back squats with a stick. Slowly descend to maximal depth and then pause. Remember the feeling, of how deep you descended and then bounce out. And then repeat. Ensure weight is constantly at the heels and that your hips aren't rising faster than your shoulders and neck. Shoulders and neck always always rise at the same speed as the hips, or your angle will move your squats into being a hamstring dominant exercise even past parallel. Now repeat this about 15x for 2 sets and then proceed to doing your actual squats.

As for your butt-tuck, people suggest to stretch the hamstrings and glutes. I've got a better idea. Hold a 40KG bar over your head and do over head squats. If your butt tucks, you'll fall backwards. If your bar's not in the middle of your center of gravity, you'll fall forward or backwards. If your butt isn't pushed out hard enough, you'll fall over. So anytime you fall, you'll have to get up and figure out what the hell didn't you do right and repeat. Fantastic isn't it the overhead squats? That's why it's known as one of the best postural assessment tools in the industry.

Poliquin I believe, once said that getting stronger is like learning a new language. You need to keep doing (speaking) it over and over and over and over again consistently, over a period of time. He was summarizing Doug Hepburn's method of getting stronger, which is using many many many many sets. This principal is also applied to learning of the squatting (of course) movement. You need to keep doing squats over and over again, with that empty stick to be able to get the technique right. When you're tired, rest. Then repeat with the empty stick. Squats is one of the most difficult exercises to learn and you've got to keep practicing.

You'll notice that your squat technique evolves with time. Mine has changed numerous times as well.
*
Awesome explanation

What do you think is best grip width for someone that barely OH squat and is planning to incorporate it ?

Any recommendations on improving vertical presses?
ken86
post Apr 7 2010, 09:24 PM

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QUOTE(-Dan @ Apr 7 2010, 08:38 PM)
Aw shit, I think I've really done it for my back this time. During football today, I jumped to take a header, got pushed and fell hard and flat on my back. Made the pain from my not-yet-healed lower back injury worse, and what's more, now I can feel some pain going down my right leg. Going to the doctor tomorrow. =/
*
Oh man the symptoms sounds like Sciatica to me, It happened to me during basketball as well (lower back pain + tingling sensation around one side of knee and leg).. Good luck with the doc tomorrow

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