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Science Earth to Mars in 39 Days, ion engines

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TSobefiend
post Jul 29 2009, 08:26 AM, updated 17y ago

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Earth to Mars in 39 Days


A six-month space journey away, Mars often seems an almost impossible planet to reach. But engineers are developing a new engine that could turn six months to six weeks, bringing the Red Planet much, much closer than ever before.

Using the traditional fuel-burning rockets that carried humans on lunar missions, it would take a manned spacecraft six months to travel from the Earth to Mars. While you could find volunteers in spades willing to trade a year in a tin can for a glimpse of another planet, osteoporosis-inducing weightlessness and dangerous radiation render a lengthy trip unfeasible. But attention has turned to ion engines. While a combustion rocket thrusts a space shuttle through the atmosphere, then lets it coast to its destination, ion engines are able to effect a more continuous thrust:

Ion engines, on the other hand, accelerate electrically charged atoms, or ions, through an electric field, thereby pushing the spacecraft in the opposite direction. They provide much less thrust at a given moment than do chemical rockets, which means they can't break free of the Earth's gravity on their own.

But once in space, they can give a continuous push for years, like a steady breeze at the back of a sailboat, accelerating gradually until they're moving faster than chemical rockets.

Engineers at the Ad Astra are seeing promise in VASIMR, an ion engine that uses a radio frequency generator to heat charged particles and create greater thrust than other similar engines. Ad Astra plans to attach a solar-powered VASIMR engine to the International Space Station for tests, and, if they are successful, could use VASIMR periodically to thrust the ISS back into the Earth's orbit.

But, if the engine were powered by an onboard nuclear reactor, its applications could be much more profound. Using 1000 times the energy of a solar-powered VASIMR, a nuclear-powered VASIMR engine could propel a manned spacecraft to Mars in a mere 39 days. Although the technology to play a nuclear reactor on a space shuttle is still a ways off, many in astrophysics feel the project holds enormous promise. NASA has provided Ad Astra with a small stipend for VASIMR development, and NASA chief Charles Bolden had high praise for the possibility of shortened space travel:

If engines, such as VASIMR, could be developed to take people to the Red Planet in 40 days, "that puts it inside the range of what we feel comfortable of doing with humans," he told New Scientist. "Something like VASIMR – that's a game changer."


http://io9.com/5323516/earth-to-mars-in-39-days
Toriton
post Jul 29 2009, 08:44 AM

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after this we can transfer all our environmental polluting industries to Mars... so that greener earth can be achieved thumbup.gif
amduser
post Jul 29 2009, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 29 2009, 08:44 AM)
after this we can transfer all our environmental polluting industries to Mars... so that greener earth can be achieved  thumbup.gif
*
then you will have more overpriced goods on earth.
Toriton
post Jul 29 2009, 09:55 AM

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QUOTE(amduser @ Jul 29 2009, 08:50 AM)
then you will have more overpriced goods on earth.
*
additional price we have to pay for a better environment... wink.gif

like extra price we have to pay for a so call organic farm's product...

rockets
post Jul 29 2009, 10:45 AM

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currently we have a couple of deep space probes that uses ion engine powered by solar energy, the first one was launched back in 2000 iirc. so this technology has been around for a while, but yea i guess the real challenge is having a nuclear reactor to power one.
TSobefiend
post Jul 29 2009, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(rockets @ Jul 29 2009, 10:45 AM)
currently we have a couple of deep space probes that uses ion engine powered by solar energy, the first one was launched back in 2000 iirc. so this technology has been around for a while, but yea i guess the real challenge is having a nuclear reactor to power one.
*
yeah.. we have been using ION engine for years. the thing is those ion thrusters does not exert enough force for real deep space missions. i read somewhere that the thrust of these ion engines is equivalent to you blowing on a piece of paper. it might not be much in earth atmosphere and gravity but in space that is good enough to push space probes all the way to pluto and beyond

interesting enough the TIE fighter in Star wars stand for Twin Ion Engine.. just in case some of you don't know that!
Toriton
post Jul 29 2009, 11:42 AM

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by time... researchers will find method to improve it...

Serpentarius
post Jul 29 2009, 11:53 AM

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US got NO extra money to do space research

they pull out a lot of budget before .... this publisity is to spur the public to change Obama policy ... NASA got no extra funding .... a lot of research has been abandoned ...


TSobefiend
post Jul 29 2009, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(Serpentarius @ Jul 29 2009, 11:53 AM)
US got NO extra money to do space research

they pull out a lot of budget before .... this publisity is to spur the public to change Obama policy ... NASA got no extra funding .... a lot of research has been abandoned ...
*
its a sign of times. the space golden age was in the 50-60's where the tech was also used to build ICBMs. when the threat of ICBM from Russia is no longer there i can see why they face budget cuts

the shuttle for example was suppose to be used only for 25 years. as it stands the shuttle programme is long overdue for a new shuttle design. with the collapse of the world economy i think the future of space exploration will be gloomy. by 2015 the ISS will deorbit

YES! they will let he ISS tumble back to earth. Neither NASA,ESA nor Russian space administrator see any reason to keep it afloat. The only people interested in space programme is CHINA. so better hope china will do something!
Serpentarius
post Jul 29 2009, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(obefiend @ Jul 29 2009, 01:19 PM)
its a sign of times. the space golden age was in the 50-60's where the tech was also used to build ICBMs. when the threat of ICBM from Russia is no longer there i can see why they face budget cuts

the shuttle for example was suppose to be used only for 25 years. as it stands the shuttle programme is long overdue for a new shuttle design. with the collapse of the world economy i think the future of space exploration will be gloomy. by 2015 the ISS will deorbit

YES! they will let he ISS tumble back to earth. Neither NASA,ESA nor Russian space administrator see any reason to keep it afloat. The only people interested in space programme is CHINA. so better hope china will do something!
*
but China is building their OWN spacestation ..... unless ... United Nations cannot support the Space Station (which is a laughter, they cannot take it) ... maybe they'll either rent it out ... or sell it ...

dun worry about that le ....... UN will always have the IMF to borrow money from ..... and NASA may have reduced most of their funded researches ... but not the private funded ones ..... plus .... they just not doing anything special ... but to revert to the status: IDLE (or relaxing holiday)



but now they US itself is holding their own states together (takut pecah like USSR) .... the threat of their states going independent is very real .... checkout California's local politics

since US is actually not a FAIR country .... some states are producing more, some are less .. they argue a lot of the GDP per state .... plus their country is far too large ...... their state ppl love their state more than their country ... (e.g. even their own state police hates FBI)

i believe ... we might see the US to split in our lifetime ... or US might change its own policies and become kuku besi to their own country to keep their states together (which even worst - Militarism)
Toriton
post Jul 29 2009, 01:41 PM

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fallen of democracy champion...

maybe its better to spend more on earth protection... protection from pollution, meteor...

spending a lot for knowledge about something beyond our need is just a luxury that we might need to put aside for the time being...
TSobefiend
post Jul 29 2009, 02:23 PM

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QUOTE(Serpentarius @ Jul 29 2009, 01:32 PM)
but China is building their OWN spacestation ..... unless ... United Nations cannot support the Space Station (which is a laughter, they cannot take it) ... maybe they'll either rent it out ... or sell it ...

dun worry about that le ....... UN will always have the IMF to borrow money from ..... and NASA may have reduced most of their funded researches ... but not the private funded ones ..... plus .... they just not doing anything special ... but to revert to the status: IDLE (or relaxing holiday)
but now they US itself is holding their own states together (takut pecah like USSR) .... the threat of their states going independent is very real .... checkout California's local politics

since US is actually not a FAIR country .... some states are producing more, some are less .. they argue a lot of the GDP per state .... plus their country is far too large ...... their state ppl love their state more than their country ... (e.g. even their own state police hates FBI)

i believe ... we might see the US to split in our lifetime ... or US might change its own policies and become kuku besi to their own country to keep their states together (which even worst - Militarism)
*
there is a joke among californians

"outside of california its foreign policy"

they truly believe that they can sustain themselves. with what i dont know. at least texas have their oil. same goes to alaska. i dont think we'll see a split in america. them bastards are patriotic as hell!

QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 29 2009, 01:41 PM)
fallen of democracy champion...

maybe its better to spend more on earth protection... protection from pollution, meteor...

spending a lot for knowledge about something beyond our need is just a luxury that we might need to put aside for the time being...
*
this is the thing. how do we say something is IMPORATANT or not. like the Larhe Hadron Collider. how does it benefit human kind. so far all we know is they are trying to find proof of theoretical physics that does not benefit makind. then again if we try to cut scientific research we will be back to the middle ages! sometimes you need to spend big for science.
Toriton
post Jul 29 2009, 05:15 PM

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yes... science is important to improve our life... there are many branches of science... even for space exploration... there is so many research going on where it cost billions... some of the research is necessary but some can be consider as luxury for this time...

not sure about other ppl... but for me... research like finding another planet that can support life in our galaxy seem to be unnecessary for the time being... eventhough if we know there are some suitable planet for human in out there... we still don't have the technology to go there... and actually transport human colony to live there...

this kind of research might be significance once we have discover the way to travel faster than the speed of light...

This post has been edited by Toriton: Jul 29 2009, 05:17 PM
Cheesenium
post Jul 29 2009, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 29 2009, 01:41 PM)
fallen of democracy champion...

maybe its better to spend more on earth protection... protection from pollution, meteor...

spending a lot for knowledge about something beyond our need is just a luxury that we might need to put aside for the time being...
*
I dont see why space research isnt important.

It's crucial for our survival.

QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 29 2009, 05:15 PM)
yes... science is important to improve our life... there are many branches of science... even for space exploration... there is so many research going on where it cost billions... some of the research is necessary but some can be consider as luxury for this time...

not sure about other ppl... but for me... research like finding another planet that can support life in our galaxy seem to be unnecessary for the time being... eventhough if we know there are some suitable planet for human in out there... we still don't have the technology to go there... and actually transport human colony to live there...

this kind of research might be significance once we have discover the way to travel faster than the speed of light...
*
With this kind of thinking,then,we wont be able to advance in science.Everything we have today is just a step up from what we have yesterday.Things are improving step by step,not suddenly a huge leap to a new tech.

If we dont have ion engines now,how we gonna get an engine that travel in speed of light?

It's like trying to make a jump between steam engines to hydrogen powered electric cars.
Maxieos
post Jul 29 2009, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(Serpentarius @ Jul 29 2009, 11:53 AM)
US got NO extra money to do space research

they pull out a lot of budget before .... this publisity is to spur the public to change Obama policy ... NASA got no extra funding .... a lot of research has been abandoned ...
*
That's why US keep on spreading H1N| virus without preventing and those medical company can sell those vaccine for profit.
Petrol/Oil price hike is what they did.

First - War with Iran for Oil giving a false reason of harmful weapon but can't find any of it.
Second - Increase the Oil price to sky high
Third - Spreading virus like they dont care to prevent it
Aurora
post Jul 29 2009, 10:58 PM

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Space technology rank as the pioneer of technology evolution in the world. All of our household item are the result of development of space technology. Non-stick coating on our frying pan, wireless communication, television, GPS, ball pen, etc. Imagine a world without satelite and everything run on wire.

Please don't bring in world war, oil price, virus, politics into this thread... It's a discussion about the potential of space travel. (no offense). All things start with one small step at a time. I still remember when the first colour LCD was launch, it was just 256-bit colour depth, a resolution so small it only fits mobile phone. Back then, it drain battery like nothing. But it was a huge step in display technology, when we finally switch from 2-tone LCD to colour. For techie, those are really front end technology. Even now, the general E&E master graduates can't even write a code to display words on 2-tone LCD. sweat.gif

Back to the topic, if they can maintain constant acceleration, say half a g, it would prevent any weightless health syndrome. I'll say it's a go. 10 years from now, the technology would probably be on the road!! That's why space development is important. smile.gif
Toriton
post Jul 30 2009, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(Cheesenium @ Jul 29 2009, 05:37 PM)
If we dont have ion engines now,how we gonna get an engine that travel in speed of light?

It's like trying to make a jump between steam engines to hydrogen powered electric cars.
*
you missed my point... just because i say 1 space research is less important... doesn't mean all of them fall in the same category...

what i say... we need to focus the research on technology that will enable us to travel faster than light... if this is possible... only then, the search on suitable planet in our galaxy will be significance...

right now... scientist are talking about far away planet which has been discovered that MIGHT be able to support life. So far no solid prove, its all based on theory. Even if it is true, it will took thousand of light years to travel to that planet.

Back to the budget... with the current economy, budget has been cut. The question is... which research need to be focused on and which one that can hold. Everything is important... but some are be more important that the others.


befitozi
post Jul 30 2009, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 30 2009, 09:22 AM)
you missed my point... just because i say 1 space research is less important... doesn't mean all of them fall in the same category...

what i say... we need to focus the research on technology that will enable us to travel faster than light... if this is possible... only then, the search on suitable planet in our galaxy will be significance...

right now... scientist are talking about far away planet which has been discovered that MIGHT be able to support life. So far no solid prove, its all based on theory. Even if it is true, it will took thousand of light years to travel to that planet.

Back to the budget... with the current economy, budget has been cut. The question is... which research need to be focused on and which one that can hold. Everything is important... but some are be more important that the others.
*
We will never be able to travel faster than light. Nothing can travel faster than light. The only way to reach another destination ahead of light if both start from the same point is by using extreme curvature of spacetime caused by massive objects like a blackhole.

Idea of searching for other planets that may support our future need not depend on the ability to get in a short period of time. So what if it takes 10000 years to reach that destination. It is easier to build a huge spaceship that can support a thousand generations of humans than trying to beat the speed of light.
Toriton
post Jul 30 2009, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(befitozi @ Jul 30 2009, 12:35 PM)
We will never be able to travel faster than light. Nothing can travel faster than light. The only way to reach another destination ahead of light if both start from the same point is by using extreme curvature of spacetime caused by massive objects like a blackhole.

Idea of searching for other planets that may support our future need not depend on the ability to get in a short period of time. So what if it takes 10000 years to reach that destination. It is easier to build a huge spaceship that can support a thousand generations of humans than trying to beat the speed of light.
*
u r right...

then, they need to do research on space ship that can support life for a very long time. Also a way to lift the massive weight out from earth gravity. also food supply. And i don't think it will be available for everybody.

space time theory for traveling involving wormhole for example might enable us to travel faster than light... but there is no telling how much energy needed to create one which connect us to the nearest suitable planet. Even if we managed to create one, we might need special equipment to go through it.

anyway... when i wrote " some can be consider as luxury for this time..." it doesn't mean that thing have no benefits...

luxury = mean something that good to have we can still live without it
for this time = mean right now... not for the future...




This post has been edited by Toriton: Jul 30 2009, 04:13 PM
Cheesenium
post Jul 30 2009, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(Toriton @ Jul 30 2009, 09:22 AM)
you missed my point... just because i say 1 space research is less important... doesn't mean all of them fall in the same category...

what i say... we need to focus the research on technology that will enable us to travel faster than light... if this is possible... only then, the search on suitable planet in our galaxy will be significance...

right now... scientist are talking about far away planet which has been discovered that MIGHT be able to support life. So far no solid prove, its all based on theory. Even if it is true, it will took thousand of light years to travel to that planet.

Back to the budget... with the current economy, budget has been cut. The question is... which research need to be focused on and which one that can hold. Everything is important... but some are be more important that the others.
*
I was just using steam engines and hydrogen powered engines as an analogy.

If you want to focus on researching to travel at speed of light,why not start with ion engines first.If it works,go even faster.Things just dont happen over night like suddenly you have a light speed traveling capable engines and you just have jet engines yesterday.

I dont see why we shouldnt find a suitable planet now.Regardless on the economy.Firstly,it's always a human curiousity to find out whether there are life on other planets.The finding they have now could help us when the time comes for proper space travel like a map for the particular type of planets that they are looing for.

Researches are important,probably all of them,IMO,even for theoretical stuff like LHC as the findings from that could explains some of the mysteries of science and spawn new inventions.Or it's findings could help other fields like quantum computers to mature.

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