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 5 Ways to Let a Girl Know You're Interested In Her, with none of this "confessing" nonsense

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ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 28 2009, 02:10 PM)
Right, I'm gonna do an ezralimm and attempt to impart my precious wisdom onto you noobs. Be kind.

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"Confessing" is for losers. Seriously. It is the lamest way of letting a girl know you like her, and it is not very effective. Here's why:

- You're giving up all control over the outcome. All the power is now in her hands to either say yes or no. There's nothing you can do about it anymore.
- You're putting unnecessary pressure on her. Suddenly she has to decide then and there how she feels about you, when she may not even be sure herself yet. And she may be afraid of hurting you if she says no. It's not fair to put her in such a position.
- You're asking her to love you back. You don't ask for love. You offer it, and if she accepts, she will offer hers in return.
- You're setting up an unrealistic expectation. Since you asked for her love, she will tend to see you as someone who always has to earn it. She will see herself as a princess to you, because you played the role of a beggar to her.

Only lovesick schoolboys still do this "confession" thing. Mature adults do it this way:

1) Eye contact. You know how two people tend to not look each other in the eye for too long? That there's usually a time limit before both people look away? Well, if you like this girl, maintain eye contact just a little longer than the time limit. Look at her just a little longer than necessary. Then give her a little smile before looking away. Don't stare, don't glue your eyes to her all the time. Just don't be afraid to show that you like looking at her.  smile.gif

2) Make her laugh. It's one thing to get her to talk comfortably with you. It's another thing for her to enjoy talking to you, so much so that she remembers how much she enjoys talking to you. Be at your wittiest and most charming, put some effort into making her laugh. Don't be too shy to say something like, "Hey, wanna hear a joke?" Then tell her a dozen jokes, one after another. Let her know that you're purposely trying to make her happy.

3) Remember the things she says. Listen to what she has to say, then show her that you listened. If she mentioned her dog Poochie, greet her with "Hi, how's Poochie?" the next time you see her. If she mentioned she has trouble sleeping, ask her if she slept well the next day. If she likes a certain TV show, find out when the show airs, then ask her how was last night's episode the next day. Better yet, watch the show, so that you can talk about it with her. You can even tell her you didn't like the show - the fact that you watched it just because of her is flattering enough.

4) Physical proximity/contact. This is a tricky one, so be very careful. Position yourself closer to her - not too close, but a little closer than normal. You know the distance between friends, and the distance between bf and gf? You want to be exactly halfway in-between. (And better make sure you're wearing deodorant!) Similarly, give her a little touch every now and then, but be careful. Touch her shoulder when you want to get her attention. When talking to her, pat her on her arm to emphasize a point; if you've gotten close enough to her, you can try her thigh. When walking together, put your hand on the small of her back to guide her in a different direction. Just don't let your hand linger there too long.

You know what's the best thing about all these? They are measurable. Meaning, you will know instantly whether or not they're working. If she likes you, she will return the eye contact with you - if she doesn't, she always will look away before you do. If she likes you, she will laugh at all your jokes. If she likes you, she will appreciate the fact that you remember things about her. If she likes you, she will stand close to you, and she will touch you. By doing these things to her, you are letting her know it's okay for her to do the same to you. You're also letting her know that it's okay for her to not do the same to you, if she's not interested in you.

And if you're getting all the right signals from her, it's time to move on to:

5) Ask her out. Just you and her. None of the rest of your gang. Nobody else. Yes, it's a date. It could be a movie, it could be a drink at a coffee place, or if you're really confident, it could be dinner at a nice restaurant. Don't treat it as if it's a big deal, as if by saying yes she'll be making a big commitment to you. Keep this in mind if she's reluctant - say, "Hey, it's just a movie/coffee/dinner, I'm not asking you to marry me laa."

And after you do all this, after you've got the date... then what?

Then you just let it happen naturally. And believe me, if you've gotten this far and the girl has been showing all the signs of liking you, it will happen naturally. Which may be a surprise if you've always thought that tackling a girl is a long, gruelling, agonizingly difficult task that involves a "confession". You may be surprised at how easy it was. Which is as it should be. (And don't give me that "if it's easy to get, you won't appreciate" nonsense.  shakehead.gif ) If a guy and a girl like each other, they should fall into a relationship easily.

This is how mature adults do it. And even if you are a lovesick schoolboy, you should still do it this way. Because it's the right way to do it.
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Vote pin.

A bit technical though. The tl;dr summary would simply be that it takes two to tango.

I dont quite agree with the part on physical contact. Different girls expect different amounts of physical contact. Just go with the flow, you should be able to sense when you are going too far.

The thread should come with a disclaimer that if a girl doesnt find you attractive, none of the above would work.... The eye contact would be interpreted as being "creepy", jokes would be "lame", physical contact would be a no-no (she would edge away and avoid you...creep!), and you will be brushed away when you ask her out smile.gif


With regards to the part on remembering things: I feel that it's best not to "try to remember". Rather, try to build genuine rapport. EMPATHY is key. If your mind is somewhere else, your date will notice...no matter how many little things you remember about her.


Added on July 30, 2009, 5:46 pmOh btw, this article is a nice followup to the one i just wrote.


my article dealt with issues of attractiveness (holistically).

this one deals with the step after that.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 30 2009, 05:47 PM
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 30 2009, 05:57 PM)
No, I don't think so. Not everything can be reduced to a tl;dr.
Not quite. I made it clear that aside from showing your interest in someone, it also allows you to test her for interest in you.

One of the best ways to attract someone is to show your attraction to them, in a manner that does not make them uncomfortable. But this is not a "kau lui" guide. It is, as I have titled it, a guide on what to do to let a girl know you're interested in her.
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Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

In my experience and observation, I find that if a guy shows that kind of interest (steps 1-5) towards a girl who does not find him attractive:

1) extra eye contact wont be reciprocated, and may be considered "creepy".
2) the uninterested girl simply wouldnt give the guy much opportunities to "make her laugh".
3) Physical contact will earn you the proverbial slap on the face.


Either way. It doesnt matter. Chicken or the egg? Which came first? Dont know, dont give a shit. I still like to eat chicken.


The bottom line is that if a girl does not find you attractive, you simply wouldnt have much luck with any of those steps. Dont believe me? Try doing those steps with the hottest girl you know... Ya know, the girl who gets all the attention and has a zillion eligable bachelors going after her. Good luck!



You can generally tell when a girl finds you attractive. SHE would be looking at you. SHE would not avoid talking/chatting with you. SHE will actually try to engage you...giving you all the opportunities for steps 1-5 in your article.


the girl will give the guy opportunities for steps 1-5 if she is interested in him smile.gif


...in the same way guys give lots of opportunities to girls they find attractive (guys always seem to want to know more about the hot girls yea wink.gif )
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 06:42 PM

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QUOTE(Dickson Poon @ Jul 30 2009, 06:20 PM)
Ezra, hate to say it but you're trying really hard to conform Noobie's content to your point of views again.

Noobie's guide isn't about attracting women. It isn't about "success". Of course it would only work on a chick who already likes you.
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I agree.

Dude, just because you agree with someone over some points does not mean that you are "conforming" (it's the wrong term btw) their views to yours.


At the end of the day, we are talking about different things. And yeah, you said it (bolded text^).
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 08:18 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 30 2009, 07:50 PM)
If attraction is not there, you simply build it. A person can't choose to be attracted to you or not, so it doesn't hurt to show your best and do your best for the person you're interested in.

1) Eye contact - Confidence
2) Make her laugh - Interesting
3) Remember things she say - Attentive
4) Physical Proximity / Contact - Confidence / Experience
5) Ask her out - Initiative

*
TS: There we have it^, the tl;dr summary. wink.gif




Again, which came first? The chicken or the egg?


Glass half full, glass half empty.

Optimist vs Pessimist.


It doesnt freaking matter. You can tell people that attraction can be "built" by following those five steps if it makes you happy. This is simply not reality as I perceive it.

Steps 1-5 are valid though...and there is no harm trying to show your best to the person you're interested in.

If a girl doesnt find you attractive, no matter how well you do steps 1-5, she will still only see you as a friend. If you push too hard, she will be creeped and avoid you! Put yourself in the girl's shoes. What if a really ugly girl starts showing romantic interest in you? What would you do? She's a goody 2 shoes who is an angel and makes you laugh. She is interesting. She communicates well with you. She is culturally compatible with you... but she is so very dead ugly that you couldnt EVER imagine seeing her naked. What would you do? All the "nice" female characteristics... personality, compatibility, etc... simply dont matter... There is no mutual attraction.

Also note that it is very hard to have confidence, to be interesting and to be empathetic if you proverbially "DONT HAVE A LIFE" (the topic my latest thread addresses).

You could tell very early on if a person is interested in you or not pretty much by the way they look and interact with you. Things are mutual... and in my opinion, just to progress beyond step #1 requires mutual attraction
.


That's why I keep on stressing that guys should only pursue girls they detect interest from (i am assuming that guys would only pursue girls they are interested in of course). It should be obvious as the light of day when a girl is interested in you. Once you detect interest...then proceed with step's 1-5 as TS is suggesting.

How well you proceed through each of those steps depends on the characteristics you correctly outlined above: confidence / empathy ("attention") / social skills ("make her laugh") etc.


oh and btw, those traits are not just "simply built". They take a solid foundation to build up over time...

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 30 2009, 08:24 PM
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 30 2009, 08:23 PM)
Wow cool discovery you have there. Err... tell me, what do you get out of this?
*
Sexual kicks. I have a LYN:CC keyboard fetish...

ooh... yeah, typing makes me hot.... whistling.gif
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 08:32 PM

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IMO, ask yourself... truthfully....

Would she be romantically interested in you?

Put yourself in her shoes...look at yourself (figuratively lah...) in the mirror .
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 08:50 PM

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QUOTE(dr3w @ Jul 30 2009, 08:34 PM)
i'm not sure bout that, cause i'm asian, and she's half filipino half caucasian, so i really don't know if she will date asian now that she's more comfortable with me i wonder if i should ask her out.
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Race is irrelevant.


Love really is blind... but usually only when there is strong MUTUAL attraction.


Does she find you attractive?



All the steps mean nothing if she simply doesnt find you attractive.
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 30 2009, 08:57 PM)
So only start courting a person who's already attracted to you? laugh.gif Do you know how many girls go "you know I would never have thought I'd fall for a guy like my bf"? Only approaching girls which show interests in you is weak and a cowards way of living.
You never learn anything in life until you experience it first hand.
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^ or it is the way of those who are lucky enough to be choosy in the game of love.

Always remember that reality is cruel. People settle for what is available to them. There are only so many hot girls. They are only so many hot guys. Everyone likes to tell themselves things that make them feel good about themselves.

Many guys, especially those who hook up towards the age of desperation (ie 35yo) also say "you know I would never have thought I'd fall for a girl like my gf".

At the end of the day, I believe that attractiveness plays a big role in love and relationships. You seem to think otherwise. There is no point in arguing further and it is better for us to agree to disagree.

Ok Mr Phuah, we're starting to argue about the same things in circles.

Hopefully one day we shall meet. I want to you ask some questions, but I never discuss anybody's personal life online, including mine. I've attempted to contact you on facebook but have yet received a reply.

Im going to stop here.
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 10:21 PM

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QUOTE(dr3w @ Jul 30 2009, 09:31 PM)
okay okay thanks for the encouragement, i shall ask her out next week  biggrin.gif and uhm the reason of my undecisiveness is because she rejected me before last time when i asked her out for lunch, she replied me that she just broke up and not looking for any relationship.. but that was like 6 months ago
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let us know how it goes..
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(dr3w @ Jul 30 2009, 10:22 PM)
sure, will do
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You are teh man. She is the one who is lucky to have you. Not the other way around.

Be confident.

All the best.


Added on July 30, 2009, 11:08 pm
QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 30 2009, 09:23 PM)
Your words here reveal to me what you I've always criticised about your writing. You place a very heavy emphasis on looks, and have this conception that people "settle" for less because they can't get the best looking partner.
very often tongue.gif
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^ Dude, the latest thread has little emphasis on looks per se.

As per your metaphor, I focused quite heavily on the driver rather than the car. Because you cant change the car... and I want my thread to be as politically correct as possible.

I do keep in mind however that physical attributes do play an important role. ie. It's very difficult for a guy to ask out a girl who is significantly taller than him.

Using the car analogy, you cannot race a kancil against a BMW M3.
...no matter how much the kancil driver tells himself that it's really about driving skill.

but the point is, it doesnt matter what class of car you are driving. Even Class C cars have the Sunday Cup!


You want to be the best you can be in the league you are in!

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 30 2009, 11:17 PM
ezralimm
post Jul 30 2009, 11:55 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Jul 30 2009, 11:26 PM)
In the writing itself, no, but from the way you write its obvious.
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That is your opinion.

I'll leave it to the others who read my thread to decide.

I maintain that i place APPROPRIATE/realistic emphasis on the role of physical attributes in love and dating.
ezralimm
post Jul 31 2009, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(happy4ever @ Jul 31 2009, 02:43 AM)
No problem. Thats what i have said, GROW in love, not fall in love.
Everything starts from building meaningful friendship first, getting to know each other. The attractiveness within will bloom like a flower, delicate and intimately... ("wat wat? in my butt"  tongue.gif  sorry, can't stop imagining that MTV)
No problem about that.  smile.gif

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The more you get acquainted to him/her, the more you would eventually grow in love.
I've seen how butt ugly people gets the prettiest/most hansem mates. biggrin.gif
Its not how you look that matter. Its how well you carry yourself, and how sincere and gentle and sweet you are.

Look for a soul mate. Not a wife.  wink.gif
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Firstly, exceptions will always exist:
user posted image

You can keep reminding yourself of exceptions if it makes you happy but at the end of the day they are exceptions and will never be the norm. You will rarely see a girl with options date a guy who is shorter and lighter than she is. You will rarely see a successful guy settling for a girl who isnt at least reasonably sexually attractive.



In the cases you mention: It's not love at first sight (ie. NOT mutual romantic attraction from day one). Rather, two people get to know each other...and slowly fall in love.

Not everyone can be choosy in the game of love.

These people tend to be in their late 20s as they start to consider those around them in their social circles.
That is the case with many many many people and is the real reason (i hypothesize) people are getting married later and later in modern times.

Btw, i've also said that before: Spend enough time, empathize and share experiences with someone reasonably compatible and you will fall in love eventually.

Also note that love simply wouldnt "grow" (using your word) if mutual romantic attraction doesnt develop...and romantic attraction is at the end of the day still based on sexual attraction. Girls want guys with good successful traits that succeed in life. Guys want fertile girls that could produce healthy, thriving kids. For the apple doesnt fall far from the tree...regardless if you like to admit it or not. Think of the ugly girl that has a charming personality, but guys only consider her a friend and not a lover. Think about the hapless loser that tries hard to be nice to girls, but only gets considered as a friend and not a lover.

Look at wedding pictures. Look at the bride. Get to know about the groom. What do you notice?

Look at people who are single and never dated into their 30s... what do you notice?

Dont lie to yourself.

Even in cases when there is no romantic interest at the start, the woman is almost always reasonably attractive (ie. if she were naked on a bed, any healthy young guy will do her), and the groom is able to provide with reasonable success in life.

I rest my case.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 31 2009, 03:14 PM
ezralimm
post Jul 31 2009, 03:13 PM

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sorry TS!

I was replying to happy4ever.
ezralimm
post Jul 31 2009, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 31 2009, 03:23 PM)
You're shallow.
You really are.

I notice a wide variety of "reasonably sexually attractive" people, men and women. I see brides whom I do not find terribly attractive, even in their wedding best, yet their husbands are looking at them like they're the most beautiful women on earth.

That's the part you keep failing to understand, ezra.
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Yup. Most people in their reproductive years are sexually attractive by default. How sexually attractive they are is another question. Everyone wants the best that is available to them.


Average Jane's are plenty attractive btw.


Take a long hard look at the husbands of those women you mentioned: Do you think they had any opportunities to be with more attractive women? There may be some who are a bit more attractive in his social circles... but they are not culturally/emotionally/religiously compatible... or it could just be simple chemistry.


At the end of the day, many people simply will not have many choices in the game of love.



You can harp about the exceptions till the cows come home. It will not change basic human nature. Look at the girls you consider really pretty/hot/attractive. Hot girls can be really choosy in the game of love. Look at the guys beside them. I rest my case.



This post has been edited by ezralimm: Jul 31 2009, 03:38 PM
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post Aug 1 2009, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Aug 1 2009, 01:48 AM)
In here lies a certain truth that men may not like to admit. (Attractive) Women are the drive of social force and change. What (Attractive) women generally want from society, women get. (Attractive) Women set the rules, women set the expectations, and many men follow suit. You can see the change in the last few decades quite clearly. Macho men were popular, then women wanted more sensitive men, and when we got that, women found them too sissy and want a change, and we're starting to see that change.
yes, practised in some tribes in africa.
*
^corrected.

To be fair, attractive men set the rules too! Women begrudgingly follow. There is a reason why so many "hot"/attractive guys are considered "jerks" yet women still flock to them.


Proven worldwide in peer-reviewed and replicated studies on psychology:

Women want sensitve men when they are not ovulating... They want masculine hunks when they are fertile. Go figure.
ezralimm
post Aug 1 2009, 06:43 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Aug 1 2009, 05:29 PM)
Tsk tsk tsk, your small mind reveals itself again. What I wrote has much further implications than just attraction. It spans to include education, nurturing, literature, media, etc. Think about it, who raised you as a kid? Who set your initial impressions for women? who taught you how to treat women first? Its more often than not, the mothers... which if it eludes your mind, are women.

Women also being more empathic than men, communicate a lot more. Their feelings, their expectations, their needs, their wants, their desires... this information gets spread within the female network. Hence how certain "standards" are achieved within a female community. You know the saying, "the fastest way to spread news is to tell a woman" smile.gif
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WHAT THE FVCK does the rant above have anything to do with stuff I quoted?

Acknowledging reality is all i did.

Dont try to change the subject or bury it with irrelevant things.

Yes, women do have an instinct to nurture. Dont you ever try to imply that I dont believe so. And it has nothing to do with the realities around you that relate to dating and relationships ... especially to single women who have yet to commit to anyone. Women's motherly instinct tend to kick in when they are in a stable, committed relationship.

And still you have the gall to accuse me of having a "small mind". Look, ad hominems are ok used sparingly... but you are getting to a point where it starts to reflect badly on yourself.

To Other Readers:
If you ever want to know what a non-sequitur (logic doesnt follow), ad-hominem (flame/personal attack) is, read silver's reply to me.

What happened was:

1) Silverhawk said that women set the standards that guys strive to follow
2) Ezra said that attractive guys AND girls set the standards that society follows
3) Silverhawk rants about "initial impressions for women", and implies that Ezra has a "small mind", and then implies that Ezra doesnt know how to treat women ("who taught you how to treat women first").


like wtf. doh.gif

pathethic.


And just think about it: What does the phrase "Who set your initial impressions for women?" even mean? This delves into epistemology and is beyond what could possibly be relevant to this thread. And just so you know, i think the word 'for' should be replaced with 'towards' as the sentence as it is doesnt make sense.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Aug 1 2009, 06:56 PM
ezralimm
post Aug 1 2009, 06:59 PM

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Honestly, I want to see this guy in real life one day. We would have an interesting talk.

It's easy to throw flames about online... But face to face, you'll see just how much credence he has in his words.


You can call my views dogmatic. I stand by what I said. You could also say that anyone who stands up for their views is dogmatic. Just because you agree with theirs and disagree with mine doesnt make their views any less dogmatic. Hence the argument of "dogma" that brings a negative connotation is simply irrelevant.
ezralimm
post Aug 1 2009, 07:50 PM

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Whateverla. I leave it to readers to decide.

Reality is not tunnel vision. It is seeing the truth in the world around us, and knowing that exceptions exist.

Acknowledging norms of society (while noting that exceptions exist) is not "tunnel vision".

I hold that harping on exceptions, without acknowledging or downplaying the norms of society, is "tunnel vision".

There are winners and losers in the game of life. Some get good jobs. Some get bad ones. Some get good partners. Some get bad partners. And as with everything, there is a grey area between the good and bad. Nobody is black or white (figuratively, not referring to race).


I contend that acknowleging the cruel realities of the world let's us make real changes to our lives that make us better people... both in career and the game of love.

You may disagree. I respect that. I stand by what I say.

Arguing about who is right is pointless. At the end of the day, believe whatever makes you happy.

You know deep down inside if you have been successful in life or not.



-peace out-

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Aug 1 2009, 07:55 PM
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post Aug 1 2009, 08:00 PM

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There is nothing to admit or deny. The readers will be the judge of this.

Believe whatever makes you happy. Life will be the judge of what you speak of. You know where you stand in the game of love. You know where you stand in the game of life. Now dont be a complete nerdy/no-life/fvcktard and confuse opinions with 'rules' or 'generalizations' because that would apply to almost everyone on this forum.

I will not argue over semantics. I have never claimed to make any 'rules'. Call it a rule or generalization or whatever damn words you want. I stand by what I said: I acknowledge the norms of society and the exceptions that exist within it.



This post has been edited by ezralimm: Aug 1 2009, 08:08 PM
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post Aug 1 2009, 08:36 PM

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QUOTE(silverhawk @ Aug 1 2009, 08:14 PM)
I'm quite at a lost for words. You "corrected" something you obviously misunderstood, got pissed when you perceived a personal assault when none was intended, then throw the responsibility to the readers? blink.gif

The readers have nothing to do with this, nor does their opinion on the subject, matter. It just me, trying to get you to understand things better. If you can't, then, so be it. Who people think is right/wrong doesn't matter.
*
Dont you dare try to put yourself on a pedestal.
I've ignored alot of the flames you've used in my threads.

This is a public forum. You attempt to discredit my views. I attempt to get readers to re-read and think about who is right and wrong.

If you believe you are right, fine.THe readers have a brain and can decide for themselves.


I stand by what I say:

1) Social norms exist with exceptions. eg. A girl will rarely date a guy who is both significantly shorter and lighter than she is.
2) The existance of exceptions does not disprove the social norm.
3) Acknowledging realities and social norms while also acknowledging that exceptions exist is inline with the truth (reality).
4) People who harp on the exceptions are the ones who are "narrow minded".



QUOTE(silverhawk @ Aug 1 2009, 08:14 PM)
The readers have nothing to do with this, nor does their opinion on the subject, matter. It just me, trying to get you to understand things better. If you can't, then, so be it. Who people think is right/wrong doesn't matter.
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oh but they do. You are attempting to discredit my views by using ad hominems. All the pointless accusations of me having a "small mind" etc.

To other readers: This guy thinks that other people's opinion doesnt matter. It does. If not, then why the hell is he getting so worked up over what I said. Gosh he's such an idiot (yeah, calling him an idiot is an ad hominem).

I've said it a few times: we clearly have different views. There is no point arguing further. Delving into semantics is pointless.

This post has been edited by ezralimm: Aug 1 2009, 08:36 PM

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