I decided to create a new thread for discussion after seeing Baronic's post here at this thread.

Why not form a committee of people whom you personally know (and can vouch for) to be good, reliable contributors? They can help you to be your eyes and ears.

There are a lot of good posts and ideas in CC, but unfortunately the whole thing lacks structure and a lot of ideas get lost in traffic, so it's inevitable that people have to keep posting the same thing again and again.

I believe that stickies are a good way to overcome this problem. Perhaps there could be a thread with a free flowing discussion, followed by a sticky thread where positions, arguments and points are summarised by the contributor, linking back to the original discussion?

Discussion is good but there are clear limits to what they can achieve. I think that it's time where forumers are given the option of just reading and digesting well written points of views in order to form their own insights.

If we're serious about providing quality input, then we have to give some thought into providing form and structure to our point of views... the one thing I've observed that is lacking in CC so far.

Just two cents off the top of my head...

P.S: I have more thoughts but I want to see the reception to this thread before I proceed with posting and developing them.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 25 2009, 09:01 PM

Hmm, well I don't know who you're referring to, but just to be on the safe side, I certainly don't intend to make CC "my own".

I'm not even going to be here for the long haul. I'm not even wise enough to make any real, permanent contribution to this place, which is why if you all here think it's worth a shot, it's going to be mostly your collective efforts.

We have a lot of good contributors here. I think that it'd be cool just to give them some proper recognition and sticky the really good posts they've made.

A lot of guys here put a lot of thought into their posts, as well as share deep experiences and profound insights. But the traffic is heavy and a lot of good content is just swamped and forgotten. There isn't much economy in this.

Also, just to allay your fears, just because we get a little bit more serious doesn't mean that this place is going to be ALL serious. There's still going to be a lot of room for laughs and just horsing around. I really can't imagine a place dedicated to love and relationships being all dour and spartan and I'm pretty sure a lot of folks feel the same way.

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Added on July 26, 2009, 4:26 amGood point!

It's not economical for those of us dispensing the advice and support though. Perhaps with good stickies, we wouldn't have to write so much, thus we can refer the poster to the sticky but write additional stuff for his/her unique situation.

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Added on July 26, 2009, 4:35 amThat would certainly be true.

But CC has one advantage that perhaps a lot of other places don't have: we have diversity of experiences and opinion.

Thus, we can disagree and even bicker, but we can do so meaningfully.

It wouldn't be good if only one point of view gets advertised, but with the diversity of quality opinions and points of views here, if we gave equal time and say to all that deserve it, there's a good chance that we could really create something that's not just thought provoking, but also catalytic in broadening our perspectives.

For all of Ezra's thread's faults and failures, he is attempting to provide a structure for his readers. Perhaps we wouldn't mind his personal opinions, efforts and flaws so much if we had more diversity of quality posts also providing form and structure.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 26 2009, 04:35 AM

Oh damn... now I understand just a little bit more than I did before!

CC has always appeared to me like a rather rowdy and nonsensical place. I didn't realise it had a heyday and that I was contributing to its degradation whenever I posted rubbish posts.

I beg forgiveness.

Edit to add: Due to the traffic moderating CC is really too much work for any single person to do. How about getting more moderators here? We should recruit from the regulars of this section. Cheesenium I would nominate you because you despise evil and that is enough for me, really, but like I said, I think that moderating this section is a job for a committee. An individual or part-timer would be overworked very quickly.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 26 2009, 03:12 PM

So, bottomline. Is anybody here interested at all in effecting change for the better?

Let me get a show of hands.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 26 2009, 03:06 PM

Would this be easy to do, with the forum architecture and all? Does anybody know?

ROFLMAO!!!!

Dude you cracked me up so badly there I almost died laughing! XD

Happy4ever is definitely an evil genius!

I have an idle mind that wanders often, and I am a stimulation addict.

Hmmm, I'm beginning to see the predicament.

1. The overall tasks of arbitrating quality posts from the not so good is definitely too much for even two or three people to do. The more popular stickied threads are so good that they inspire people to add their two cents of support, or intrigue them to start provoking thoughts and questions which they proceed to post in the same thread, and perhaps some may even feel that they need to be contrarian and push forth alternate own views. Attempting to filter all of these would indeed be a lot of work. +_+"

My proposal: We could set up a rule that stickied threads shall only be summaries and explanations of points and point of views raised, and we can have discussions held and linked to the main CC forum itself where things can be more free flowing. Then when quality positions are reached, we could add these to the sticky.

Edit to add: Meaning that, instead of a single thread containing links to all the "greatest hits", why not have stickies addressing the most common concerns and debates in CC? If we can collect our thoughts and summarise our positions in a way that readers can understand (so that they at least have a basic of understanding) we can go further in depth to the specifics of whatever their concerns are in a particular thread. (I hope I'm making sense. I'm running out of brain juice fast. )

Thoughts? O_o"

2. Okay, so now we know that the problem is that few people report infractions, there is an easy solution for this. We can deputise reliable, stable forum members to act as your eyes and ears. For example, we have regulars in the SC, WTA and COBH threads who check in there quite often, we can give them guidelines and encourage them to report infractions and other trolling behavior to you.

P.S: I'm a bit pre-occupied with other things at the moment, I will add more here when I get home. +_+'

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 27 2009, 10:03 PM

I'm listening. I feel what you're saying. At some level in my gut, I feel a twinge of apprehensiom. I shudder at the thought of a Cupid's Corner without a little silliness. Isn't love supposed to be playful? All the same, I've seen some rather ridiculous things in here and kopitiam, ranging from posts recommending "falcon punching" PREGNANT women in the stomach to people actually laughing at people who have been killed and beaten to death just because they were tranny sex workers. I'm sorry, I'm not a shining example of virtue, but even I have my limits.

I think the bigger problem with CC as it is right now is not Kopitiam style posts, however.

1. I think that Cupid Corner's identity is rather amorphous and poorly defined compared to all the other sub-forums and sections in here. I think that the other sub-forums have a purpose and direction that is tangible and easily felt and even understood, but Cupid's Corner does not have this. Because of this, Cupid's Corner merely exists, its members and participants move along with the waves, there are ebbs and flows, but nobody is at the helm to direct the place.

2. Let's give CC a purpose and direction. Rather than being reactive, let us be proactive. Let us think, what do we want to achieve here? What purpose should this section have? Which direction do we want to go? And then once that is decided, let us think about how we can do all of that.

This means that the emphasis shall become less on responding and reacting to posts, and more on creating a form and structure to benefit the members, participants and viewers here.

3. I believe that our greatest strength is our diversity of opinion, character and experience. This means that although we can disagree and sometimes very vehemently, we are capable of doing so meaningfully. This is actually an advantage that we should acknowledge and embrace.

Done correctly, no party should fear dominion by the other. Rather we would all be assured that we will be equally heard and equally acknowledged as is fitting.

4. We can't just talk about things and in the end do nothing. If we want to make this a better place, it's time we stood up and made a contribution, no matter how big or small, to the overall picture. It's not difficult and it's not overwhelming if it's a collective, community effort.

Thoughts?

In the meantime I am proceeding with the next few baby steps.

Noob13, thanks for the article, I'm reading through it now. Will post my thoughts later.

Ok, does anybody know if it's possible to move CC out of Kopitiam, according to the forum architecture? I must apologise, I know nothing about internet stuff.

Can anybody here ask? I am a noobfart and lack the proper standing to talk to the moderators

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Oooh, I've just finished the article. What a good read.

I agree with number 3 and 4.

I've seen the "Karma" system in action before though, and I must say that it doesn't work. It merely allows an idiocracy to truly entrench themselves in the culture by sheer weight of numbers.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 27 2009, 11:44 PM

Well, if Lowyat is going to implement the Good and Bad system it's probably going to work very well in forums like health and fitness and careers, education, etc, but fail spectacularly in Kopitiam AND in here.

Reason being CC is too amorphous which is just one step above the blank slate that Kopitiam is. A karma system will probably see a troll resurgence of sorts as they see a way of increasing their e-prestige and k-influence and internet lolz.

Moderators alone, no matter how many, will never be able to steer or direct a medium that is so heavily reliant on quality participation as a forum.

If we want to make a change, then we have to do it together: moderators and staff together with participating members who are willing to effect change.

We cannot just push responsibility to people in positions of power and expect them to take care of us. If we want change, then we must take on the responsibility of effecting it.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 28 2009, 12:31 AM

Good point.

Being a moderator is a heavy responsibility. It can definitely become very thankless.

Goldfries, is it possible to move Cupid's Corner out of Kopitiam? This may be very beneficial.

Apart from moving Cupid's Corner out of Kopitiam there are also a couple of things we the members can do to make the section truly worthy, I hope to be able to develop my very rough ideas here and later get a committee or movement to implement those that we agree on collectively.

Good point!

I agree, the forum has definitely matured. I see a lot of very good, thoughtful and wise contributors here, too many for me to list down, all of whom have a wide diversity of experiences, character, and points of views.

This makes me believe that we can definitely move this section to the next stage.

+1!

Next suggestion: STRICT ban on the phrase "Ada wang ada amoi", punishable by 3 days suspension, the context investigated of course.

Can?

Isn't that good?

Such sanctimony.

Half of this thread is addressed to the members here ourselves, asking us what WE can do to make this thread better, instead of crying for help to the mods for every little thing.

So please, I think you need to stfu before spouting more pithy sayings.

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Added on July 28, 2009, 1:42 pmA personal question in response to a general statement, Nick?

I'm disappointed. I expected much more from you.

Also, for the record I think that Baronic is doing a great job moderating the place. He is enforcing the rules without fear or favor very consistently, and I think that is a lot more important than being polite and pandering to dumbasses who like things the way they are right now... only because they're afraid something might happen to their personal playground.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 28 2009, 01:58 PM

Of course he doesn't have a case. He's just pulling a chicken little and running around crying out that the sky REALLY IS going to fall.

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Added on July 28, 2009, 3:52 pmDo you even have a mind capable of basic comprehension?

Or do you need to conform everything you see to what little you know (which seems to be nothing more than a collection of platitudes and pithy saying anyway)?

You'll need to take the effort to grow a BRAIN before I'll even talk to you in a civil manner.

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Added on July 28, 2009, 3:53 pmYa man, I need to "change". From now on the only thing I'll do in Cupid's Corner is to post in chat threads, just like you, and when something looks like it's about to hppen I'll jump up and down crying out "oh noez" for every stupid reason I can think of.

This post has been edited by Dickson Poon: Jul 28 2009, 03:53 PM