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 LYN stock market FAQs & Guide, T+3, Dividends, commissions/fees, etc...

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TSkmarc
post Jul 7 2009, 03:01 PM

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Finally more free to continue on the guide. I'm stuck at the Dividend & Tax subtopic. Need clarification.

Q1:
In the single-tier tax system, I understand that the tax is imposed at the level of the company. So they would declare something like this (right?):

Dividend : 20 cents (25% less tax)

So, if it is already less tax, it is still taxable in the hands of the shareholders in their annual income tax?

Q2:
Why is there tax-exempted dividends? (T.E)

Q3:
If you look at the list of upcoming dividends, only some will have the phrase "Single tier" e.g. Interim dividend 6 sen single-tier.

Why is that? I thought all is single-tier?

Any help is welcome. Giving me a headache.... rclxub.gif
TSkmarc
post Jul 7 2009, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(smartly @ Jul 7 2009, 03:41 PM)
A1 - You need to do regross while declaring your income tax.
A2 - Not sure. Maybe on company own discretiom.
A3 - The single-tier tax system was introduces in Budget 2008 to replace d imputation sys with effect from year of assessment 2008. Under tis sys, corporate income is taxed at corporate lvl & tis is a final tax. Companies may declare single tier exempt div that wud be exempt from tax in the hands of thier shareholders.
*
Ermmm..... I don't understand the term "regross". Can explain a bit aaa? blush.gif

For A3, I thought all companies come under the single-tier tax system. Doesn't all companies nowadays declare single-tier exempted dividends? Or does some companies still follow the old system?

Do you have any good reference on this? I'm sooooo confused.... rclxub.gif

Example :

Final Dividend of one company : 5 sen
Final dividend of another : 5 sen T.E
Final dividend of another : 5 sen single-tier T.E

What does all this mean? rclxub.gif


Added on July 7, 2009, 3:52 pm
QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2009, 03:38 PM)
Q1
Single tier, tax has being incurred at company level based on corporate tax rate which is 25% currently. They will state as single tier

Q2
Dividend can be tax exempted when company utilise the tax credit to offset it.

Q3
Start from 2013, any dividend will be under new single tier. Now we are in transition period of changing from old imputation system to single tier. It depended on individual company situation.

Under old imputation system, low earners will able to claim back the tax or tax differentiate of individual tax bracket.
So single tier is disadvantage to those tax bracket lower than 25%.
*
I see.... that explains everything. Thx!!! thumbup.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 7 2009, 03:52 PM
TSkmarc
post Jul 7 2009, 06:15 PM

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QUOTE(smartly @ Jul 7 2009, 04:13 PM)
The regross thingy....
As cherroy has explained the transitional period from old sys to new sys will happen between 1.1.08 to 31.12.2013...

A "regross" of the div will apply when company fail to deduct tax from YA 1.1.08 to 31.12.2013.
There is a formula to it, please check your income tax return form for detail.
*
Ok. I'm planning to add a subtopic that covers declaration of dividend in our income tax. Just that I never did that before as my first dividend is in 2009!!! sweat.gif

Anyway, going to put some examples in the guide, as follows :

BKAWAN - Interim dividend 10 sen Single Tier T.E.
KLK - Interim dividend 10 sen Single Tier
ALLIANZ - 1st and final dividend 2 sen

If I understand the STS/TTS correctly,
1) BKAWAN - gives out 10 sen, company not taxed and shareholder no need to declare in their income tax
2) KLK - gives out 10 sen, company was taxed 25% but shareholder no need to declare in their income tax
3) ALLIANZ - gives out 2 sen under TTS, company was taxed and shareholder still have to declare in their income tax.

Am I correct in this? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 7 2009, 06:19 PM
TSkmarc
post Jul 8 2009, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 7 2009, 11:37 PM)
For 3) need more clarification

Company was taxed, but shareholder can claim back the tax if the shareholder total income is not subjected to tax or claim back the differentiate if the shareholder tax bracket is much lower than the corporate tax rate.
*
I see. Will add this and read more about this.

QUOTE(htt @ Jul 8 2009, 09:45 AM)
I think all wrong tongue.gif
1. TE just to confuse you, actually taxed to company.
2. company tax not necessary 25%, think that's lower, couple with other tax deductible, can be even lower (or higher for some company).
3. TTS? Company got the tax credit to declare dividend & distribute profit to shareholders, shareholders can claim back excess tax paid based on individual tax rate/ bracket.

But I don't think we need in depth knowledge for this topic, as tax is hard for most & the more you provide will only end up confuse more tongue.gif Just know to claim back whatever should be claim back and pay whatever should be pay will do for most of us.

Also no use study tax in depth unless you are really interested or got great benefit by study that, because tax law change almost every year, what you study now might not be applicable in a year or two, waste brain cells tongue.gif
*
Thx for your input. Will make the necessary corrections.

Yeah, I'm not planning to go into the details. Just want to provide a little background and some information so that forumers can understand what it means when they see the dividends declared.

QUOTE(lklatmy @ Jul 8 2009, 10:51 AM)
1 and 2 same answer,the single tier dividend are of the same category and it's not taxable in the hand of the receipient. No need to include in the income tax return.KLK should be more specific and state the dividend as " Interim dividend 10 sen Single Tier T.E."

3 is taxable in the hand of the receipient,must declare the gross amount and offset the Section 108 credit(ie the tax credit) against the tax payable.If you hold 1000 shares in Allianz,you will receive dividend of RM15 with tax credit of RM5.
I stand to be corrected.
*
I see. Thx for the info. I read your blog again and it was very helpful. Need to clarify a few things. Quote from your blog:

QUOTE
When a Company makes profit of RM10 million in a financial year,tax at 27% would cost the company RM2.7m which has to be paid over to Inland Revenue in cash.This 2.7 m paid is known as Section 108 credits.

If this company decides to distribute a gross dividend of 10% less tax to the shareholders, shareholder who holds 1000 shares of RM1 each would receive RM100 less tax 27%,the net amount received is RM73.

This shareholder then declares the gross dividend of RM100 in his Income Tax return as his dividend income.The RM27(known as S108 credit) is then deducted from the tax payable by the shareholder .This whole system where tax paid by the company is imputed to their shareholders is known as the "imputation system".


In your example, the dividend is : 10% less tax

So, 1000 shares of par value RM1 each, we will receive RM73.

My question is:
1) Is the "less tax" now 25%, 26% or 27%? rclxub.gif
2) We only receive RM73, but why declared RM100? Is it because the RM27 was taxed?
3) If our income tax bracket was 13%, then we can claim back RM14 right? How do we claim this back? Is this the same as the "E10) Tolakan cukai seksyen 110 (dividen)" in the income tax form?
4) By looking at the dividend certificate (subsidiary income tax certificate), how do we know whether that dividend is taxable or not?

Basically, what I'm driving at is to understand the whole process and to explain it as simple as possible - from the point of a shareholder receiving dividend to how he file the income tax returns to how to claim back if the tax bracket is lower.

Maybe you can give a better example/explanation? nod.gif Something like your example:

Company declare dividend of 10% less tax
You hold 1000 shares of RM1 each : Receive RM100
But 27% tax so actually receive only RM73
Declare RM100 as dividend during income tax filing
Tax bracket 13% so can claim back 14% (RM14)
Claim is through.....

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 8 2009, 11:10 PM
TSkmarc
post Jul 14 2009, 11:39 PM

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I'm thinking of challenging the topic of "Warrants". Will start on the topic soon. Hope you guys can help........
TSkmarc
post Jul 15 2009, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(lklatmy @ Jul 15 2009, 02:51 PM)
1.The rate varies according to the basis year,Y/A 2003 to Y/A2006 was 28 %,Y/A 2007 was 27 %,Y/A 2008 was 26 % and Y/A 2009 is 25 %.

2.The RM27 is the tax paid by the company to the IRB.

3.You setoff the RM27 against your tax payable and the unutilised amount will be refunded.

4.I don't use Nominee CDS so I have no idea on the subsidiary income tax certificate.Normal Dividend warrant is quite straight forward and it clearly states whether the dividend is taxed,TE or single tier.
As for the example/explanation,I am kind of lazy and hope other forumers can help you out.

Sorry for the late reply as I 've missed your post.
*
Thx for the info. Will update the thread later tonight. smile.gif
TSkmarc
post Jul 15 2009, 10:55 PM

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QUOTE(htt @ Jul 15 2009, 05:31 PM)
Good answer rclxms.gif
Something to add.
4. Nominee account dividend voucher might have 2 sections, one section stating tax information, the other stating charges etc, use the tax section for tax purposes.
*
Yeah, I have that 2 sections too. Just that I never submitted for income tax before so I don't really know what to do.... sweat.gif
TSkmarc
post Jul 19 2009, 10:05 PM

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QUOTE(chunjiet @ Jul 19 2009, 05:57 PM)
Warrant question.....
example in actual figure... hmm.gif

IOICORP               = RM4.660

IOICORP-CI          = RM0.005  
Non-Collateralised American Style
Maturity date 03/08/2009
Exercise price        = RM5.50

so hmm.gif  0.005+5.5 >4.66
Means this warrant is "tapau" <---- correct?
IOICORP-CJ          = RM0.260
NON-COLLATERALISED AMERICAN-STYLE CASH SETTLED CALL WARRANTS
Maturity date 03/06/2010
Exercise price        = RM 2.88

so hmm.gif 0.26+2.88=3.14 < 4.660
Means i can buy the mother at 3.14 + processing fee ?
the convert of mother share can be do it any time or until expire date?
if can convert now those ppl who buy warrant and convert to mother can earn big money ler.....
am i rite? shocking.gif
any pro can answer me?
if really can by just waiting for 2-3 week to convert is worth to try... whistling.gif
*
That's one question I wanted to ask too (among other questions). Have been struggling to do the guide about warrant with unfortunately minimal help from our forumers. Sad.... sad.gif (A very big thank you to those who did help out! thumbup.gif Maybe everybody busy making money.... drool.gif )

Anyway, don't forget about the conversion ratio. It doesn't affect the calculation much but it should be factored in. FYI, IOICORP-CI conversion ratio is 0.20 while the IOICORP-CJ is 0.13. wink.gif

I haven't addressed the "conversion ratio" part (and it's formula) in the guide yet. Will do it soon..... smile.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 19 2009, 10:06 PM
TSkmarc
post Jul 20 2009, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jul 20 2009, 12:25 AM)
For CI, yes, tapau if its average price for settlement below 5.50

CJ
Generally, CW is cash settled, they don't allow you to convert to mothershare, but you can exercise it when it is in money, the extra money between the exercise price and market price will be paid in cash. You forget to take in conversion ratio, some may need 5, 10 or more CW to convert 1 mothershare. Sorry I don't know/check the CJ conversion ratio, but it is easily available info.
*
Cherroy, the IOICORP-CJ's conversion ratio is 0.13.

So, if I understand it correctly, it means that 1 warrant can convert to 0.13 mother share @ 7.69 warrants to convert to 1 mother share? hmm.gif

(The 7.69 is from 1 / 0.13 = 7.69)

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 20 2009, 12:49 AM
TSkmarc
post Jul 20 2009, 01:15 AM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Jul 20 2009, 01:07 AM)
0.13 is the rounded multiplier. Should be 0.125 since the ratio is 8:1.

Easier if you quote the conversion ratio in ratio terms like 1:2 or 3:1.

FYI IOICORP-CJ conversion is 8:1 meaning 8 warrants needed to convert 1 mothershare.

So to see if tapau or not;

(warrant price * conversion ratio) + exercise price =/= mother price

(0.26 * 8) + 2.88 = 4.96 ;  therefore still have premium over the mother share.
Bursa page for all Call Warrant
*
I finally understood the conversion ratio. Thx! thumbup.gif

Geee... I didn't even know you can check the warrant info from Bursa Malaysia.... sweat.gif
TSkmarc
post Jul 23 2009, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Jul 20 2009, 08:29 PM)
Do not be trapped by looking at the conversion rate only . There are times on papers they look attractive ( by boosting the mother shares ) to get you to buy warrants to convert.

By the time, " they"  push out the warrants , the mother share price falls.
*
Now that I understand more about warrants, I will only buy them if there is another major recession/depression....... nod.gif

Oopsss, better continue my guide.... sweat.gif
TSkmarc
post Jul 30 2009, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(jojo777 @ Jul 30 2009, 11:52 AM)
Sifu, need your advice on this,

Say I want to buy call warrant of ABC-05 which currently is at USD0.10 and expiry date is May 2009, purchase total of 100 unit,

So cost to me is100 x xUSD0.10 = USD10 x 3.5 = RM35
Plus brokerage fee = RM12
Total cost = RM47

Say after 1 month price increase to USD0.20, if I sell it,
100 x USD0.2 = USD20 x 3.5 = RM70 – RM12 = 58

Is that how it’s calculated? From your tutorial, you mention that there is a target price, how do I see whether the warrant that I buy will reach the target price?
*
That should be correct. However, your example is confusing leh:
1) You can't buy warrant which has already expired!!!
2) Why did you put USD10 and not RM10? As far as I know, the commission for trading on foreign stock market is much much MUCH higher! Like RM200++. Are you planning to trade on US stocks?
3) Don't forget about clearing fee and stamp fees too
4) To see whether the warrant has reach your target price, you need to check it yourself or ask your remisier to monitor the stock price lor...... I'm not too sure about whether your trading portal can inform you about that or not....

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jul 30 2009, 09:18 PM
TSkmarc
post Jul 31 2009, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(jojo777 @ Jul 31 2009, 10:57 AM)
thank you sifu...but yesterday when i re-calculate base on the tutorial posted in this forum i found out another info...
Example
Current CITIGRP common stock price : USD2.95 (let's use this as example)
Current CITIGRP-C2 price : USD0.095
Exercise price : USD3.25
Exercise ratio : 50 to 1

For me to convert to common share because i wanted to sell off the warrant:
Warrant price for 1 mother share = USD0.095 x 50 = USD4.75
Convert to mother share = USD4.75 + USD3.25 = USD8

if the above calculation is correct, meaning i will have to wait until the common share reaches USD8 in order for me to break even? pls advice sifu
*
Aiyoooo... don't call me sifu la... I'm a noob in stocks icon_rolleyes.gif

Yes, if go according to your example, your calculation is correct. You would have to keep until the mother share is USD8 before you can break even (minus the commissions).
TSkmarc
post Aug 11 2009, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(! Love Money @ Aug 11 2009, 10:25 PM)
thanks kmarc... learned something about warrant...

icon_idea.gif  icon_idea.gif  :idea
*
No problem. It's not finished yet though. Almost.

Not meant for you to go buy warrants aaa.... tongue.gif
TSkmarc
post Aug 14 2009, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(rstusa @ Aug 14 2009, 02:09 PM)
What you mean good thing? Why some stock didn't deduct the tax?
*
It means that if your tax bracket is 7%, then you can claim back the remaider 18% (25% - 7% = 18%) when you do your income tax filing. That's what I understand... wink.gif

This post has been edited by kmarc: Aug 14 2009, 03:57 PM
TSkmarc
post Aug 25 2009, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Aug 25 2009, 01:01 PM)
Kmarc, just wondering if you're going to add an example of how PUT warrants are calculated, now that KLCI got PUT warrants by OSK and AMMB.
*
Ok, will do that later. However, aurora97 found a new Kenanga website about warrants : http://www.nagawarrants.com/naga_wisdom1.html

Really excellent website with nice pictures and graphs. If I had seen that earlier, would not have done the warrant guide.

Anyway, since the warrant guide is almost complete, will complete it and also put the above link on the first line!!!! smile.gif
TSkmarc
post Dec 19 2009, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(tsytsy @ Dec 19 2009, 02:57 AM)
hi, i am wondering. what does it means and how 'the price ll drops after giving out the dividends'? Is due to the investors re-calculate the 'reasonable' price to be traded after the payout?

Thanks for answering. Appreciate than smile.gif
*
The cash dividend comes from the company's own pocket. As the stock price reflects on the company's value (and that value is lower because the company gave out cash in the form of dividends), the price of the stock will reduce an equivalent amount.

So, if the stock price is RM1.40 per share and the company gave out cash dividend of 6 cents per share, the price will automatically reduce to RM1.40 - RM0.06 = RM 1.34. That is automatically done on ex-date. smile.gif
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post Feb 7 2010, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(newgain @ Feb 5 2010, 10:38 PM)
I have question on rights issue ex-date (example: 8 Feb) and entitlement date (example: 10 Feb).

If i have the stock until the ex-date, does it mean I already can sell it on ex-date and will get the right issues?

Or I will need to hold it until the entitlement date (10 Feb) to get the rights issues?

A bit confused after reading the FAQ on ex-date  in the post.

Thanks.
*
To get the rights issue, you just have to hold it until ex-date, in this case, hold it until 8th of february. wink.gif
TSkmarc
post Sep 2 2010, 12:16 AM

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QUOTE(se7enteenGuy @ Aug 30 2010, 09:45 AM)
From the 1st page quote
"The last day of trading to receive the dividend. It is one trading day before the ex-dividend date, where the stock is said to be "cum dividend" (in other words, the stock that you hold comes with the dividend).
Existing shareholders and anyone who buy and hold the stock on this day (i.e. until the end of that particular trading day e.g. 5:00pm) will receive the dividend. Even if you bought the shares at 4:59pm on the last in-dividend date, you are still entitled as you held the shares until the ex-date.
After this date, the stock becomes ex-dividend"
Contradicting advice.

*
So sorry. Haven't come to this thread for some time now cause I'm out of the stock market at the moment. What's the contradicting advice? Kindly point it out and I'll make the necessary corrections. Thx. smile.gif
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post Oct 15 2010, 06:56 AM

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"If you do not pay up after T+3, your remisier will sell your shares, and charge you if you sustain any loss from the sell."

As mentioned above, This only applies if you bought shares using credit. If you have the cash and paid for the shares, then you can keep the shares for as long as you want. No need to sell it.

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