Thanks for posting the graphs htkaki. Now, interpreting them is a more complicated matter.

Shouldn't only look at the FR graph, but all the others as well since they each have their own story to tell. I still have lots to learn about the different graphs.

The notes in the test conclusions are also valuable to read. It was interesting reading about some of the fine differences between the PC13 vs PB13:

JL Audio has been in the market longer (and they also advertise). SVS has only been recently reviewed by the magazines, so let's give them some time.

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Added on December 19, 2009, 9:57 amLower frequency is not the sole criteria for judging a sub. You also have to consider things like output, distortion, group delay, etc.

This post has been edited by jchong: Dec 19 2009, 09:57 AM

Just looking at the maximum output level graph alone...

1. F113 starts to roll off around 23Hz and max output at 20Hz is 101 dB.

2. PB13 starts to roll off around 18Hz and max output at 20Hz is 107 dB (could be higher but was not tested).

3. From about 23Hz - 70Hz, F113 is marginally flatter than PB13 although both can be considered quite good already.

Which special guest?

Just another enthusiast and forummer visiting the famed htkaki in his pad.

Ha-ha, monster vs beast (not Monsters vs Aliens).

Frankly I doubt I have golden ears. Probably only silver or brass There was a link posted in another thread for hearing tests based on pitch, tone, etc... did so-so only.

Anyway, both PB13 and Submersive have slightly different characteristics (probably due to being ported vs sealed). Both are top class models in their respective categories so the differences are not worlds apart. But also note a proper comparison wasn't done because both were in different rooms and importantly I didn't use the same BD to demo, so I didn't get a chance to hear the same scene on both subs. From general impressions:

1. The PB13 can be well behaved when tuned properly. Obviously at htkaki's place it was tuned properly (not hot) and had the benefit of AS-EQ1. It was also sitting on the Auralex platform. So bass was quite articulate and tight (not your typical ported sub). However, in terms of tightness and control the Submersive still edged it out (this is w/o AS-EQ1 or Auralex platform). There is a bit more definition with the Submersive.

2. The PB13 had a fuller, room filling bass sound. Maybe this is related to the group delay difference between ported vs sealed. It's like the bass has more body. Bass on the Submersive is more defined and focused. If you like your bass to shake the room then PB13 has slight advantage.

3. In terms of power, didn't push the Submersive really loud. Didn't push htkaki's PB13 that loud either but I did hear the PB13 in another person's house where it was really pushed and it overloaded the room (became too boomy). I suspect that if you pushed the Submersive hard it wouldn't overload the room so much.

These are the impressions so far. Wish I was able to do a more apples-to-apples comparison with the same BDs.

Yes, the Rythmik and Submersive shares quite a lot in common - tight, accurate, articulate. In terms of difference, yes yours would have more headroom. Also more output, so if you wanted to play loud you can do so easily with the Submersive. The Rythmik would likely bottom out earlier. Also in long and deep bass scenes (e.g. the skidoosh in KFP) the Submersive controls it better throughout.

If you like defined and tight bass then probably sealed sub is the way to go.

Or even 4...

Need someone to experiment with this... who's gonna be guinea pig?

As far as EQ1 is concerned, although it does the calibration well some of the inherent characteristics of ported vs sealed will still remain.

+1

Nope don't have F113. Just supporting htkaki's opinion that F113 should be better than DD12.

Which shop has the Sub 25 for audition? If I happen to be in KL same time as you, then maybe we can go together to listen.

With bluray I think it is possible to equal or even exceed the cinema experience if you have sufficient budget. With good equipment, good room and good setup it's possible.



Looks like your HT room will shape up nicely. The PSB Synchrony is a very nice speaker. It definitely deserves a power amp to drive it well. I agree that a pre/pro and power combo is the way to go for you.

I have listened to PSB Synchrony One briefly before... can't say I've tested it. Good bass, clear mids and treble. Yes I think it would also be suitable for HT use.

That FR graph is not very informative. For more useful info see this review: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/subwoofers-....html?showall=1

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Added on December 29, 2009, 11:23 pmThat 9 Hz is quoted in typical listening room. Anechoic testing might not yield such low Hz. In the review above (done in room, middle position) the reviewer states: "Paradigm’s product sheet for the Sub 25 states “low frequency extension 9 Hz (DIN),” but I could not reproduce usable output at or below 10 Hz during my bench tests."

Always take manufacturer's claims with a pinch of salt.

This post has been edited by jchong: Dec 29 2009, 11:23 PM