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 Money vs Marriage, Money ruin everything...

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SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 07:15 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 07:12 PM)
hahaha you're so wrong on this....fruits, nuts, potatoes and most of the calories are provided by the wife, the husband brings back fish and animals. It is equal food ok...those days no money, so food is everything...btw they live in caves no? so its ready made.
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Show a quote or link then.

Again, give me a good reason why women should sponge of men when they can rely on themselves and earn their own living.

SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 07:18 PM)
I've read this in a book long time ago....so your book says no or you didnt understand?
google about why woman love red and pink and you'll find because they gather fruits, nuts and potatoes, so you're wrong on this, pls be a gentleman and admit to your mistake instead of fighting and hanging on to your ego
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The books states that men were the main providers for their families and groups/ clans in prehistoric times (albeit a lightly touched matter) so spare us your crap about mistakes.

Provide an answer as to why women should sponge off men.
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 07:23 PM)
you are reading a very very wrong book written by a sexist, pls read more book and come back here again tongue.gif
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Shailaja Fennell and Madeleine Arnot are female authors.

Looks like you are talking through your rear end again.


Added on May 12, 2009, 9:16 pm
QUOTE(barista @ May 12 2009, 08:55 PM)
There are men who talks about women must be independent, must not leech but they still act like a China Men. OK... give pocket money, do house work, help with the kids... they think they've done everything, woman must be happy. They forgot the wife's emotional needs. So end up saying the wife is not content when she grumbles.

kakaka...
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dont' forget the men's emotional needs as well. It's not one sided.


Added on May 12, 2009, 9:18 pm
QUOTE(zacharyyeo @ May 12 2009, 08:56 PM)
its good to find this type of husband  smile.gif  if i am a girl , i would want to find this type of husband also .
Now i know why our opinion differs so much smile.gif

my mom was not raised in this way , my dad never raise me this way and he taught me to always earn my keep . He has the money to buy me things but choose to only give me the nessescity . and i would say that it made me a better person .
So i grew up watching my mom earning her own keep even for shopping her own cloths and woman stuff and even though dad gave her pocket money and credit card she choose not use it . It made me respect her alot because she is very independant . She also told me if one day my dad leave us she would have money to go on her own .
My mom the champion  blush.gif
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That's the way I brought up my daughters and my missus and I would have it no other way.

Seeing my daughter in a happy and fulfilling marriage has been a joy in our lives.



This post has been edited by SPS: May 12 2009, 09:18 PM
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(barista @ May 12 2009, 09:19 PM)
If a woman is willing to marry someone who is not as capable as she is, do you think she is insensitive to her partner's need?
What do you think the woman need that man for? She must love him very much.
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Why must you cling onto the notion that women MUST marry only men who financially more well off than them?


SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(barista @ May 12 2009, 09:32 PM)
Because man normally do not want a woman who is more capable than he is.  whistling.gif

You open poll and ask the men lah.

Maybe we will see some male leeches.
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And if a man does not mind you being richer than him, would you consider him to be your soulmate?

I am not interested in a poll, I merely seek only your reply.


SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 09:46 PM

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QUOTE(barista @ May 12 2009, 09:44 PM)
Yes I will. He is confident, loving, caring, hardworking, sensitive, supportive, serious about his work, tries his best etc... he may not do better than me but he is better than a lot of men out there.  smile.gif
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I acquiesce, thanks.


SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 09:58 PM)
looks like you're reading with your rear end, a man who duno know how to read yet best you can do is talk crap.
Pls do yourself a favor and google if you lazy to buy book. Dun read one book and conclude it is the ultimate truth.

For people who read this...google why female are attracted to pink color, because it is in their gene since prehistoric times to gather fruits.
Since caveman era, man and woman bring food to the table equally and not like what sps says woman those days sit in cave and wait for their food.

Man hunt for animals
Female gather fruits, veg, etc
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How many books on gender and society have YOU read? I stated men was by far the dominant gender during prehistoric times and were even willing to kill to obtain women. In current times, that power gap has been greatly narrowed as education has empowered many women and rightly so. http://www.dur.ac.uk/news/newsitem/?itemno=6585

Read some of these and know about the challenges women have faced throughout history and how many of the them were overcome:

1) Sex differences in social behavior: A social-role interpretation by by Alice H. Eagly

2) Women and Men in Organizations: Sex and Gender Issues at Work by Jeanette N. Cleveland, Margaret Stockdale, Kevin R. Murphy

The point of contention here is not about your fascination with pink colors, it is about WHY do you believe women should leech off men?

Answer the question unless you are too pipsqueak to avoid replying.
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ May 12 2009, 10:12 PM)
Pearls before swine, my friend.  laugh.gif
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I find it amusing that she distinctly avoid answering my question as to why she believes that women should sponge off men and not stand on their own two feet.


SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 10:16 PM)
Mr Liar Liar ...are you trying to lie your way out from your own trap?
You said woman sit and wait for food!!!

now read this plucked from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunter-gatherer

Pls eat your word and not lie your way out, if you're wrong admit your mistake and we can continue the debate about marriage, be a man once in your life would you?
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Let's take a look at the postulations in greater details before you embark on false accusations, shall we?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...sex-humans.html

Now according to National Geographic sources, prehistoric men (I should say Neanderthals to be more precise, hence I apologize for failing to be more specific by differentiating Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon) did not have a division of labour between the genders and preyed almost exclusively on game by largely depending on the physically more powerful male gender of this branch of homo sapiens (some might argue neanderthals were a seperate branch of humans altogether i.e. Homo neanderthalensis). This is WHAT I pointed out in my earlier posting i.e. the male species played a more dominant role in hunting and gathering (not much gathering to be precise).

Modern humans (i.e. Cro-Magnons) which arrived 45,000 years ago organized their lives by defining roles for men, women and children and this may have been the tipping point in which the modern homo sapiens species dominated and eventually led to the extinction of the neanderthal sub-species of humanity.

A very poignant remark by an anthropologist:

The findings, he added, should not be taken as a justification for the separation of roles for men and women in contemporary society.

"We shouldn't look to the remote past for clues about how we ought to behave today," Kuhn said.


In short, DON'T use the past to justify present day behaviours.


Added on May 12, 2009, 10:43 pm
QUOTE(monashguy @ May 12 2009, 10:18 PM)
A very good article I found, very good, must read.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Hunter-gatherer

A quote from the article

"A vast amount of ethnographic and archaeological evidence demonstrates that the sexual division of labor in which men hunt and women gather wild fruits and vegetables is an extremely common phenomenon among hunter-gatherers worldwide"
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Good stuff but turn the clock back another 100,000 to 200,000 years back and that phenomenon isn't so prevalent after all.



This post has been edited by SPS: May 12 2009, 10:43 PM
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 10:48 PM

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Now moorish, why do you believe women should sponge off men?

Your reply is appreciated.


Added on May 12, 2009, 10:52 pm
QUOTE(ravager877 @ May 12 2009, 10:19 PM)
Wow. 1 day and there's 12 pages worth of comments already. >.<
Let me clarify some points since there are some questions directed at me.
1. I love this woman and really want to make her my wife. I just didn't expect it to cost so much.
2. I am simply complaining cause its gonna burn an entire years worth of savings on an event of only 1 day. I can see much better use for the cash.
3. Bear in mind that its only a rough estimate of what it costs so it can come up to much much more.
4. For those who think you can make more out of the "ang pow" from the wedding, its only true if your relatives are rich. Sadly my relatives are from medium to low income bracket and they have many many children (meaning more seats needed, less angpow)

You'll excuse me if I honestly do not envy the man who married the women who got them to pay exorbitant prices for a 1 maybe 2 day event. I feel it is wasteful and there is plenty you can do with the money that will see you through better times. Sadly we chinese haven't learn to throw away our damn "face" so we cannot just have simple weddings like in the western countries. Me and my fiancee want a simple wedding. However, my dad has voiced strong objection to it and he will go so far as to say he will not give his blessing if we don't give the wedding its dues.

I know some of you will say "forget bout your dad, its your life" well sorry to say I'm not a heartless ******* who will forget about the man who raised me, fed me and paid my way through life.

It sickens me that there are still people out there who can forget about their parents so easily.
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For the sake of your father, postpone the wedding reception and save more money until you can afford to do so.

This post has been edited by SPS: May 12 2009, 10:52 PM
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 10:53 PM)
oh my god you can actually put your own foot into your own mouth...do you even know how to read that article you provided?
It says :

The olden cave man
The modern cave man
Both caveman from 2 era shows and proves, man and woman put equal food on the table? how many book you said you read? you cant even understand a simple 2 page article and you telling me you read how many book again??? doh.gif  doh.gif

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/20...sex-humans.html
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Wesley Niewoehner, an anthropologist at California State University in San Bernardino, has studied Neandertal hand mechanics.

"I've always been impressed by the observation that female Neandertal hand bones indicate that their hands were just as powerful as those of male Neandertals," he said.

"This indicates to me that female Neandertals were doing things with their hands that required significant physical force."

"Whether this fact means that female Neandertals were performing the same tasks as their male counterparts, or they were simply performing different tasks that required the same amount of force, is up for debate," he said.

Now where does that say Neanderthal women put "equal food" on the table? I can treat it as a possibility but it is by no means a certainty as the bolded statement above indicates that the antropologist noted so. One possibility in another article that I have read (but not available online I'm afraid) postulated that the women could have been primarily tool-makers.

Note there was little GATHERING of pink and red fruits.

Obviously, this is all academic as even the anthropologists themselves are making intelligent guesses at times but let's not forget this has NO bearing on current marriage related behaviors of men and women in modern society.

Do you DARE to answer my question?


Added on May 12, 2009, 11:09 pm
QUOTE(moorish @ May 12 2009, 10:58 PM)
ok good nite...until you admit you made a mistake then we'll proceed to your sponge question.

Now be a man...dun embarrassed yourself further
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Obviously I read and cpmprehend English a LOT better than you.

Re-read the National Geographic article and tell me where does it state Neanderthal women put an EQUAL amount of food on the table.

Be an honest woman and prove your statement! The only red-faced one here is you.

This post has been edited by SPS: May 12 2009, 11:09 PM
SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 11:32 PM

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QUOTE(monashguy @ May 12 2009, 11:15 PM)
Personally I am already lost, don't know what both of you are arguing about already.  whistling.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
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Quick summary:

moorish states that women were fruit and berry gatherers and put an equal amount of food on the table. Note that this is true of early homo sapiens who emerged around 40,000 years ago (ancestors of modern humans) whereby women gathered fruits and berries for sustenance to supplement the wild game hunted mostly by men.

My postulation is that this was not true as the even earlier homo genus species called Neanderthals were primarily meat eaters and thus gathering of of wild berries and fruits was not significant. It is entirely possible that Neanderthal women could have hunted game alongside the men (and thus put an "equal mount" of food on the table) but that is up for debate so no one is entirely sure. I took a leap of faith by stating that the women would have tended to more domestic matters (e.g. looking after the children, protecting the home and possibly tool-making and repairs) as men with their more muscular physiques would be better suited to hunt for wild game.

Anyway, this was a huge distraction as moorish in her oneupmanship and hysterics tried to sidetrack the question of why should women leech off (or depend entirely) on men with hair-splitting arguments about what prehistoric homo genus species did in the past for males and females which has absolutely NOTHING to do with the modern issue of men and women's roles in keeping with the spirit of this thread.




SUSSPS
post May 12 2009, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(silverwave @ May 12 2009, 11:33 PM)
The gist of the debate is because SPS wants to know, "Why women should sponge of men when they can rely on themselves and earn their own living."
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Yes, that's what I wanted to know from moorish.

However, she attempted to nitpick on my "caveman" comment and take a literal stance on it although I meant it as a metaphor or a figure of speech by highlighting that modern women aren't defined/ fixated in domestic roles and many have had wide access to education and have embraced it for the benefit of their liberalization and independence. Few things in history are more endearing than seeing a whole generation of women unleashing their potential in working alongside men in advancing every facet of society.

I brought up my two daughters and gave them both access to a good education and they are certainly contributing to their other halves, workplace, friends, charities, etc in meaningful ways.

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