As you know, there are several rules enforced for all ESPGL-related on-location events that do not exist in online competitive leagues, or even on-location events not run by ESPGL. The original reason for these rules is to maintain professional conduct of participants and to present a good image to the public eye.

We're not saying we're going to be making changes to the rules at this time but for the moment we'd like community feedback on a few things:


1) Dead chat. You are currently not allowed to talk to teammates (including other dead teammates) via in-game teamchat OR person-to-person while dead.

2) Locked dead speccing. You are currently not allowed to flip through still-live teammates while dead. (This is the infamous 'hands off mouse' rule)

3) Communication with opponents. You are currently not allowed to communicate (taunting OR otherwise) with opponents when matches are live, both via in-game chat OR person-to-person, with the exception of team leaders using the in-game chat. (And obviously no taunting even then)

4) Foul language. For any reason whatsoever, foul language results in an instant warning. This pseudo-officially includes "shit".


There were very good reasons for implementing these rules, and I believe to a certain extent that those reasons still apply. However due to the past culture of FPS gaming, up to the CyberFusion event we've been trying to be as lenient as possible with the rules, administering reminders instead of warnings or totally letting things slide for minor cases. However due to the scale of the CyberFusion tourney we had to be much stricter with the rules we decided upon.

There comes a point where the ideals of professionalism starts to clash with the overal event atmosphere and enjoyment of tournaments. This is why this thread exists now, so you guys can tell us what you think, and how the rules have or have not worked out practically.

I'll get a little bit into the 'why's of certain rules after this thread develops a little, but I'd like some feedback FIRST before saying anything. If you have a beef with the rules, this is your chance to speak up!. Your time and effort is greatly appreciated.

I scrolling when running also can't =(

1 and 2 should be removed,

3 and 4 should stay for obvious reasons and be enforced

Hmm, i think the rules should be innovated rather than totally removed. I feel that a dead player shouldnt talk at all. The rules are particularly clear stating you shouldnt talk after death in the exception of a 2 second report. Unfortunately, with such a generally ruling, this also rules out cheering, which makes competitive games more exciting.

I will revise the rules with the community, as this was the first ever official release of a r&R on paper, it was designed for LAN tournaments.
What i think we should do is make separate rulings for online and offline play, since they have different styles of play.

Taunting opponents shouldnt be banned, but should be limited to undirected taunts. (standing up and cheering, etc etc) Although not directly related to taunting, it does affect and opponent when you do such things. Unless there is a more clear cut line about what taunting is (which is a borderline insult) it should be banned for now. (in sports, they do gestures which actually taunts their opponents indirectly, cheering loudly, parading etc etc, so thats a decision to be made by the community) Quiet games are honestly boring to watch...

So we've also got to think about spectatorship. We no longer play for ourselves, we play for the game too. (aside from wining cash that is)

I just hope teams dont get TOO tangled up on either side.

Can't type when dying not fun lor... Cuz, beside can make a stupid joke, can discuss the strat or what you've done wrong, ain't it? When you died, it's so boring until I go watch Ks vs Mnski when it was shoutcasted =x.

Dead speccing also kinda teamwork also, let say the there's B and E is still alive, because they can't see each other's screen, A should change spec to E, so that B knows where is E and what the hell is he doing. Same goes to D give spec screen of B to E. (Sorry stupid explanation)

I saw SA players playing, they taunting "OI, GO HOME LA", etc, lols.

What if they use team chat to "tell" where the enemy was? Like let say I die, I tell rojak where is the enemy? They don't need to do much. They just glance my screen to see what I said.

I'd love to see if the black screen can be implement into COD4. You are dead so you're not suppose to roam around see who's doing what not.

Some one typed "F*** how to play Dom." to teammates before RUP and Goat pointed it out. And I was "err so?" but didn't say anything.

Typing when dead to teammates shouldn't be banned. Although the whole bogus where alive players reading what dead players type, alive players can barely take their eyes off their screens, let alone read.

v[*.*]v

i dont understand why i cant choose to spectate my mates after i die

jiaojiao boy angry edi

the CS black screen sux la..

COD4 so nice can still spec ur teammates and see how he play/clutch/ace whateva so nice..

i tried cs.16 during the cyberfusion LAN mini Tourney.. after die dem sien.. cant see anything one... can only chat

Let's also branch out the discussion a little, to:

a) Coming on time, postponing matches (League) and its related penalties

b) Tournament draws, seeding vs random

I mentioned people coming on time in the Cyberfusion thread. I'm completely serious about that... it REALLY helped.

Even though me (and by inclusion Holyboy (ahahaha you suck)) screwed up servers at the start and thus we only kicked off at ~12:15pm instead of as originally planned at around 10:45 to 11am, we basically folded a full 16 single elimination tournament using 4 islands into about 6 hours, not counting the time we paused for the presentation, and we did so while undermanned. (like... 4 marshals total for 4 islands?)

If we can keep up that level of efficiency or maybe slightly improve on it, (i.e. starting games off sooner after the previous game is done) we may even be able to look at implementing a full double elim some point in future.

With some teams becoming as good as they are, I think a double elim may actually sooner or later become more necessary to foster a healthy community.

A double elim would also probably make multiple-team groups happier, as it justifies seeding. As it is, when you seed great teams into different brackets in single elim, it heightens or completely guarantees the chance that startup teams WILL get eliminated within their first games. Having absolutely no hope of making it past the first round sucks for people trying to learn the game/metagame, and while that will always happen, it's happening more now than previously because there just are so many good teams.

While tournaments are all about which team is better (within reason and within the confines of the tournament/environment/situation i.e. blaring techno music ahahah) people improve via experience and playing for keeps is miles different from friendly scrims.

I would say a well-run league is the best source of competitive experience, and if a tournament has to be run, a double elim will garner the most interest especially after a community matures and you want to continue introducing new people to competitive aspect of a particular game.

I've personally watched the ESP ACC team and SWL PeW mature in playstyle throughout the ACC league which has been going on 10 weeks now. Sure, they're all good players to begin with, but they've gelled together through shared experience and playing many different teams and different opponent playstyles.

Except SWL still loses to RnF. But let's not mention that lolol.

Please allow dead teammates to talk to each other. Person to person as I don't see a reason to type. The strat time in CoD just isn't long enough so at least if you're dead you can still strat something out with your other dead teammate.

But implement it in a way that you're only allowed to talk to the person beside you.

This is quite tricky as you could do 1/2 in the name of absolute fairness. However, you could also allow 1&2 but add a "CS-Like Anti-Ghosting Rule" but this would of course be harder to enforce. Punctuality should always be strictly enforced but you will always get b****ing about the seeding. You should try using the MS EXCEL Random function or whatever makes the seeding the most random it can get. I felt the country separation seeding during the Promod Tournament was a good idea.

This post has been edited by DeathAdder: Apr 13 2009, 10:03 PM

The fat kid sitting furthest on the right that got up on his chair and started shouting with his wheezing voice was the most annoying of the lot. Honestly if I wasn't marshaling I'd have gone over to do some... interesting things.

To make this more relevant, when things turn into yelling matches like that, it disrupts the flow of other islands. More often than not there's more than 1 island (or even different titles) going on simultaneously and it's distracting as hell when mongoloids start making themselves look like retarded shit-chucking chimpanzees. Don't do it.

Wat, it was completely random. ABC drew your card for you.

This post has been edited by Falk: Apr 13 2009, 10:05 PM

At least allow us to talk in team chat with our dead comrades is ok already.

but how about the content of the "talk" u having with ur dead teamate?u can easily give out intel to playing teamates.

dont get me wrong,i would love to be able to talk to my dead teamates n plan for the next round or just chit chat to kill time but i am looking at a marshalls POV.

I was trying to refer to using the most random method available.

^ ???

---

Added on April 13, 2009, 11:27 pmPersonally after watching matches I really feel that dead teamchat is not much of a security issue. If a live teammate spares enough attention to actually read text on the next screen over he may miss something important on his own screen. On the flip side if nothing's happening anyway, what info would there be for teammates to disclose?

Thoughts?

(OBVIOUSLY THIS ISN'T A RULE CHANGE, I'M JUST FOSTERING SOME DISCUSSION KK)

This post has been edited by Falk: Apr 13 2009, 11:27 PM

example of info


scenario 1:the bomb is being planted at A..wtf is [insert name of pokemon here(hint:water type)] doing circling B???

scenario 2:we are attacking leh.he should go pick up the bmb not play for time!

This post has been edited by prash: Apr 13 2009, 11:38 PM

They are allowed to whisper or talk softly. Not too loud. I'm sure the marshalls can watch over that.

I heard some joker nearly got DQ'ed for disrespecting a referee at Cyberfusion ?

Well, you're not supposed to disrespect anyone really. So regardless, its a penalty.

Dead chat should be allowed from dead teammate to dead teammate but not typing. What the CS rules usually do is, they allow dead players to type but you can press enter until you respawn.
This should be closely enforced as if they become too loud, generally warnings can be given. Shouting especially.

I second this idea.

Cuz ur ugly =.='' need 2 ask meh??


Regarding the rules i think that

1.Dead chat should be strictly enforced to the last 2 sec report time or *last Breath* rather then allowing full blown conversations during death with a teammate....BUT with this allowing dead chat to be active... because 15 sec strat time is barely enuf to reposition or re strategize a play or play style.About the dead chat thingie where dead ppl are typing msg's to live ones would fall on the marshals hands to notice such infractions and penalize the player with warning... and like Flaver said when ur in game u dont have the time to glance at another persons's PC yet alone read the small text(not like zok can read).....

2.Cheering for teammates during death should be allowed thats the spirit of the sport... i mean when someone makes a 360 degree no scope jump shot and satays 2 people one kinda has the tendency to cheer cuz of the awesome shot or kill or jump or what ever, what do you expect us to do? look at the teammate who did the shot and throw him a thumbs up?kinda lame (like Zok's face)

3.Foul language should not be allowed of course it destroys sportsmen ship but i think some little words like "shit" "dam" and small words should be let slide compared to the more seroius one's such as "If you seek amy" and more canton related swearing...(calling someone a ZOK should be considered the highest offence in competitive gaming No the world and said player should be bannded from all forms of tourny's and fast food outlets...)

4.mouse scroll lock i think its a stupid rule (like Zok) it should be free so we can spec our teamates...but theres also cases where LIVE team members example no. 1 wants to see what team member no. 5 is doing but cant because its 2 far so team member no.2 which is dead switches over to spec team member no.5. to me it should be allowed but i dont know its kinda a grey area rule for me...

5.Be punctual or dont come kthx bye (or else ppl call u a Zok)

6.About taunting and jeering i think should be enforced to a certain extent disallowing taunts to be personal and more like a *COME ON IS THAT ALL U GOT* kinda fashion not the personal insults such as " you suck, go home noobs, ur face looks like Zok etc etc etc"

Yea i think thats about it for me


ps: Zok is stupid and ugly....

Just to clarify a little about taunts.

At the moment, 'undirected' taunts or stuff aimed at teammates along the lines of "YES, KILL ANOTHER ONE GOGO" are allowed while taunts obviously directed at opponents like "YOU GOT OWNED" (and "IS THAT ALL YOU GOT" ) are not allowed.

The main problem as I see it is that the further we go into opponent-directed taunts, the grayer the line is, and the logistical problem is that we don't have just 1 marshal, we have 4+ at any given tourney and we need a very easily differenciable line so that penalties awarded (if necessary) are similar enough coming from different people.

Like I told a few players, it really does revolve around how you phrase the morale metagame, and building a mindset of funnelling everything to your teammates will help out.

---

Added on April 14, 2009, 9:58 amRegarding dead teamspeccing, my personal opinion after watching many games is, the rule itself really does detract from the experience, and as it is, the 'buffer time' before marshals remind you to take your hands off the mouse is already more than enough time to swap to the teammate your neighbour wants to see, and therefore enforcing the rule does nothing to prevent the behavior its intended to curb if people are determined enough to utilize it.

If teams are good enough to utilize dead players' screens as a CCTV, then all the power to them, I honestly don't see it any more of an unfair advantage than seating your team in a specific order.

Don't quote me on this (yet) but this rule will most likely be revised in future.

Regardless of any changes in future, you still won't have any communication between the living and the dead, though. A live teammate cannot ask a dead teammate to spec X player, which could incur a penalty along the lines of a dead teammate talking to a live one. That dead teammate will have to come to that conclusion of who to spec himself.

This post has been edited by Falk: Apr 14 2009, 09:59 AM

I think dead chat should be remove, some times when you are about to tell your teammate something but the strats time is just not enough.

Dead chat.

tis rule very sad
i cant even say oh hi i am dead

I think dead typing should be allowed, but the player only allowed to press enter when the round is over.
That when everyone can view the message anyways. This is because think about it, strat time is like under 10 secs, it's super chaotic to type out in that panicky short moment let alone digest what your team mates are saying while you type.
Unless there's like a longer strat time, but this would make things annoying now wouldn't it?

About the no taunting? er... I support it whole heatedly?? =D

So I can't said...


"U HAZ BEEN PWNED BY AN INDON LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!"




And again, if everyone typing in strat time, our left hand screen would be flooded by light blue texts that you would have no idea what your teammates talking about.

And I don't think longer strat time also would solve this problem.

This post has been edited by syNcv9: Apr 14 2009, 12:39 PM

taunting is friggin rude seriously especially when sync do it...his voice is like over the top lor

+1.

+1 is not a reply.....+2 is!!!!

+2

Read faster. :V

And no, teammates typing in Paki or Tagalog or Canto isn't a valid complaint either.

Implement the CS rule. You can type but cannot enter. Wait till round starts you enter.

Well, that's 3 people so far recommending that. I need some clarification though. If this is meant to avoid dead intel, it does its job for P1 not being able to see dead P5's chat, but he can still see the text that dead P2 types. Was this an issue during CS days?

This post has been edited by Falk: Apr 14 2009, 07:46 PM

someone likes Zok ^^V

yeah zok got burned pretty bad there. GOOD JOB DON!

with the text being so small and the level of concentration required during the match i doubt anyone would have the time to strain their eyes to read from their teamates monitor.in fact this rule was some what allowed in the last WGT SG which i marshaled.some of the players turned off their monitor and typed and pressed enter after the round ended.(obviously they turned their monitors back on as well.)

This post has been edited by prash: Apr 14 2009, 09:34 PM

+1 I do practice it sometimes, cos thats when everyone can see the chats anyway. I mean lets say after the last guy is down, and the last man in my team goes for the defuse, I should be able to team_say all I want by then, right? I mean, duh, why wait for the round to end? Another 8 seconds of defuse time can spur up a lot of strats.

And typing "If You Seek A" to teammates should be okay right? Not like the big screen can see also. Unless its directly connected to the big screen, and the enemy can view all your chats, woo.

This post has been edited by bv2427: Apr 14 2009, 10:27 PM

1 should be removed TOTALLY. If not, then at least allow dead persons to team chat each other.

2 is a meh rule to me, doesn't really matter in LAN tourneys since if I'm dead I can look around and look @ their pc screens.

3 no tauntings at all allowed, been to too many LAN tourneys, tauntings only go ugly and will need a marshal to intervene too many times

4 I think foul language rules should only be at LAN tourneys with public members there (e.g. Blitzone vs Cyberfusion) but should be permanently banned for using foul language on any person (teammate, enemy, marshal etc)

But I don't think anyone really bothers about the foul language during ACC matches, it becomes a real bad habit, and so being said, it's like second nature to swear during other tourneys.
So, marshal's for ACC matches as well!?
=D

While I don't practice casual swearing personally, it kinda is part and parcel of market culture nowadays regardless what Moral Studies syllabus are crammed into schools.

However the main point of the foul language bans on on-location events is the fact that there's usually media coverage and publicity. How would you like the Science and Tech minister to briefly pass by a game and have his ears turn purple and fall off?

If you guys want to hire hookers and smoke weed while playing privately, i.e. on on-line leagues, etc, it's none of our business how you spend your leisure time.

shh stop telling people how we play privately!

i still think talking after death to a live teammate shouldnt be allowed.

Regardless of what players say, i still believe that there will be those who will abuse it and give intel to their live teammate. Even more so when they can flip through the screens. Intel is more important in CoD4 over CS (since cs has map bottlenecks in the map). If a dead teammate is allowed to firstly scroll through his teammates and also at the same time tell his live teammate what to do, i dunno.. you do the math.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Apr 16 2009, 02:51 PM

What about:

NO communication between live and dead teammates whatsoever, but no restriction on dead teamspeccing?

Live can shout to other live teammates, dead can discuss with other dead teammates with reasonable volume.

+ over 9000

i agree with falk

agree with falk 100%.

Now you just made the world a better place.
But obviously, the dead has to be discussing in game instead of talking out loud right? Otherwise it could be distracting to the live players, and who knows what the heck they might be talking about =D

Why don't make it like ESPGL:AL like before? Can type with dead teammates, but don't have to talk. Dead speccing is a bonus.

who gets to make the final decision?cause in the end of the day someone has to.

Probably falls back on the ESPGL commitee sometime in immediate future (especially since other events are coming up)

hmmm, btw, would ESPGL still be in PAM4 or would it have moved on to Promod?

Never read properly! Promod I guess

REASONABLE VOLUME LAH DAILOUUUUU.

You don't have to shout to your dead teammates.

I can foresee a lot of shouting AT dead teammates.

Seatings during tourney as such, Player 1 - Player 5.

Player 1 team kills Player 5 and Player 1 gets naded by Player 5's cook nade.

"LEI CHOU MAT YEH" was heard from one end to the other.

Hehe.

Then the options:
1. Allow to talk with dead teammate only when he's beside you, must whisper and can't type.
2. Allow to team chat, but can't whisper/talk or whatsoever.
3. Allow both team chat and whispering XD

I think you should be allowed to type to each other when dead, however people are capable of flicker eye movement and reading text on screen especially for low res since it's bigger. I know about this because i can.

i don't support talking once dead however, low voice or not. It is possible to pitch your voice to a level where someone within 2 feet can hear you from the side but not from the rear. And marshalls can't hear everything. I know, I tested it hearing my teammate swear a few times but the marshall didn't, because background noise will break up the sound by the time it hits further than 2 feet.

That happens regardless of the rules being able or not able to talk to live teammates, though.

lol now marshalls need to bring measuring tape

Nice one Oreo LOL! Night will post more details lator!

The one who very fierce. Pierce, pierce ear. Wear tight,tight shirt. Smoke,smoke and wear spectacles.

This post has been edited by DeathAdder: Apr 20 2009, 06:49 PM

err night dun smoke

He's referring to the biscuit.

night is too cute to smoke

wow... sounded so wrong...

Don't see how.

stop spamming thx.

A new RnR should be out before June, or mid May.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Apr 23 2009, 01:45 PM

PERSONAL WARNING FOR UUU!!! LOL

This misay lebih lebih .. -.-' wondering when's the next time will be seeing you again o.o'

Interesting feed backs and let's hope the rules and regulations for COD4 will be finalized where everyone's satisfied with.

I apologize to those who felt frustrated about me tapping their shoulders for well, can't have dead chat, don't touch mouse and keyboard when ur're dead etc. but, with the rules enforced and practised, since it was already set for the tournament at that time (WGT, Blitzone, Cyberfusion), it creates a sense of professionalism and sportsmanship.

And by far, the COD4 community SURE is setting the benchmark for Malaysia in the gaming scene.

We even have own CoD4 marshall!