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Health Myth about reverse omosis, Forget what others have said

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TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:33 AM, updated 17y ago

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What other people told you is a myth created by salesman. tongue.gif

R.O is the only way to filter drugs contamination. rclxms.gif

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http://www.squidoo.com/reverse-osmosis-water-truth-safe
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 10:48 AM

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What if I told you that I used to managed a high-purity water treatment system for a semiconductor company for about 4 years in a location where there's no proper technical expertise readily available?

The way you're typing out the entire post is so dramatic which is unnecessary. And not completely correct either. Are you out to scare people out of RO water?

Meh, busy at work. Maybe when I have free time tonite or during lunch hour. This is going to be an extremely long post.
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:54 AM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Mar 24 2009, 10:48 AM)
What if I told you that I used to managed a high-purity water treatment system for a semiconductor company for about 4 years in a location where there's no proper technical expertise readily available?

The way you're typing out the entire post is so dramatic which is unnecessary. And not completely correct either. Are you out to scare people out of RO water?

Meh, busy at work. Maybe when I have free time tonite or during lunch hour. This is going to be an extremely long post.
*
Hahah i didn't type out all lor. I only copy and paste from the source.

Uhh so, when u manage a high purity water treatment for semicon then? lol didn't countinue geh? Which point wasn't correct ya. hhehe just exchanging idea for the benefit of all.

Hahah just trying to create awareness. hahah, too many people say ro water no minerals so i mai create awareness lor. So people will more understand it more.

Singapore new water is also ro water system. hahah. if ro water really that bad, all singaporean should become weak de. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by NINJIAO: Mar 24 2009, 10:55 AM
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:19 AM

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Haiya, even copy and paste, you could have selected a more neutral article. The guy is partially right but mostly wrong interpretation. He doesn't have the water industry knowledge that I do. tongue.gif

I didn't continue because I changed jobs but still in the same company. Went to special projects and now to Environmental, Health and Safety. So some of the health and safety stuff, I know because it's part of the job. The technical aspect is because I took up Chemical Engineering for studies.

NEWater is definitely interesting. smile.gif I know one of the researcher in Singapore who was developing it. Nice chap. smile.gif
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(myremi @ Mar 24 2009, 11:19 AM)
Haiya, even copy and paste, you could have selected a more neutral article. The guy is partially right but mostly wrong interpretation. He doesn't have the water industry knowledge that I do. tongue.gif

I didn't continue because I changed jobs but still in the same company. Went to special projects and now to Environmental, Health and Safety. So some of the health and safety stuff, I know because it's part of the job. The technical aspect is because I took up Chemical Engineering for studies.

NEWater is definitely interesting. smile.gif I know one of the researcher in Singapore who was developing it. Nice chap. smile.gif
*
Hehehe tell me more about the wrong interpretation. Me oso wan to learn more. tongue.gif
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 12:33 PM

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hype up ... water is jus another commodities tat being badly twisted.. water processor always hype their water .. saying this and tat.. at the end of the day is jus H2o.. y so fuzz.. i not saying tap water is clean.. but i believe water should not be a commodities.. y a swiss tap water is sold at rm6.5 per litre when normal drinking water is rm1? why the blue gold tat v drink is more expensive than tat of black gold-->fuel .. is jus a hype up thing.. water is safe to drink if v hav a proper active carbon filter , uv filter and some boiling... done.. RO water .. alkaline water .. mineral water, mountain water .. spring water .. all jus hype up water to push the value of this blue gold sky high..

This post has been edited by xavi5567: Mar 24 2009, 12:35 PM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 12:33 PM)
hype up ... water is jus another commodities tat being badly twisted.. water processor always hype their water .. saying this and tat.. at the end of the day is jus H2o.. y so fuzz.. i not saying tap water is clean.. but i believe water should not be a commodities.. y a swiss tap water is sold at rm6.5 per litre when normal drinking water is rm1? why the blue gold tat v drink is more expensive than tat of black gold-->fuel .. is jus a hype up thing.. water is safe to drink if v hav a proper active carbon filter , uv filter and some boiling... done.. RO water .. alkaline water .. mineral water, mountain water .. spring water .. all jus hype up water to push the value of this blue gold sky high..
*
Cabon filter can only filter up to 0.1 or some 0.001 micron particles. RO filteration is 0.0001. Newest contamination is drug contamination that is being flush and water is recycled. Drugs content is still in the water we drink if not being filtered by ro process.

We are now expose to a lot unknown contamination, not like our grand parents days where rain water is safe to be used.


alanyuppie
post Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(NINJIAO @ Mar 24 2009, 03:18 PM)
We are now expose to a lot unknown contamination, not like our grand parents days where rain water is safe to be used.
*
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".



Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).

It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.

This post has been edited by alanyuppie: Mar 24 2009, 02:30 PM
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 07:48 PM

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great comment by alanyuppie, wat he said is very true....water and any thing which is able to make money has been exploited to make people believe they need it and thus buy it..now bac to this carbon filter and activate carbon thing... don u noe wat does activated carbon actually do.. it not jus act as filter it absorb the other metal and chemical.. the activated carbon is very reactive hence it will bind to virtually anything.. and the surface with come in contact for a small 1cmx1cmx1cm is equal to 2 football field.. go c how big is ur carbon filter.. but if u buy those ciplak carbon filter then i m spechless la.. so ur those small particle will still bind to the activate carbon.. then for those germs, normal UV light is already suffiecient to kill 90 of it.. hence jus left to normal boiling to further ensure urself it it safe..

This post has been edited by xavi5567: Mar 24 2009, 08:00 PM
SUSSeLrAhC
post Mar 24 2009, 08:04 PM

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usually i just drink boiled filtered water... and i know RO water is safe, what i hate most is those ppl advocating distilled water. to produce distilled water, it cost a bomb! not to even mention the cost of the distiller involved.
Visualize
post Mar 24 2009, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM)
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".
Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).
It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.
*
Reading your statement made me think of Darwin's theory of natural selection.

So how about those RO water machine outside shoplots, where you pay 30 cents to get like so much water?
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 09:53 PM

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the RO machine outside the shoplot is jus a money making machine.. rm0.3 per litre.... i doubt it is ever RO.. taste more like plain tap water which smell and taste a bit weird..
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(alanyuppie @ Mar 24 2009, 02:29 PM)
yeah rite. In our grandparents day, main source of water NOT always from rain. Some are taken from rivers and streams. Remember wartime when civilians were killed. Some dumped into rivers, a form of water pollution. Yep our grandparents drank many of those for survival. Tap water were "luxurious".
Unknown (and KNOWN) contaminations been happening for like many decades and centuries. When humans in the past more savage, waging wars, making war machines that produces dust, smokes and dirt that our grandparent breath (on top of NOT getting enough nutrient for their daily meals).

It's only in recent decades that people like us are more informed and educated, and MORE PARANOID over the media's exposure to many issues (environment, health). At the same time, some people "exploit" the situation and bank on it, producing products riding on these issues, and claimed to have improved the daily staple of our lives (better drinking water? better food supplement? better oxygen ?), and putting in scientific catchword that seemed legit.
*
Hmm simple question. Do you install any type of water filter at your home? If you do, you are contradicting to your standings. Because our grandparents/great grand parents do not know what is a water filter and neither they have seen any during their times. lol.

See as time past by, we need to upgrade ourself with better filteration. Well, at short term, you won't know the effect of the contamination will do to you. In long run, nobody can assure what will happen as well. but do you wan to risk yourself by saving few k's? Serious speaking my life worth more than that few k's of savings. tongue.gif


Added on March 24, 2009, 10:17 pm
QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 07:48 PM)
great comment by alanyuppie, wat he said is very true....water and any thing which is able to make money has been exploited to make people believe they need it and thus buy it..now bac to this carbon filter and activate carbon thing... don u noe wat does activated carbon actually do.. it not jus act as filter it absorb the other metal and chemical.. the activated carbon is very reactive hence it will bind to virtually anything.. and the surface with come in contact for a small 1cmx1cmx1cm is equal to 2 football field.. go c how big is ur carbon filter.. but if u buy those ciplak carbon filter then i m spechless la.. so ur those small particle will still bind to the activate carbon.. then for those germs, normal UV light is already suffiecient to kill 90 of it.. hence jus left to normal boiling to further ensure urself it it safe..
*
Uhh yes, active carbon can filter bacteria.

But how about viruses? synthetic dye? drugs contamination?unknown dissolve solids??


Added on March 24, 2009, 10:19 pm
QUOTE(xavi5567 @ Mar 24 2009, 09:53 PM)
the RO machine outside the shoplot is jus a money making machine.. rm0.3 per litre.... i doubt it is ever RO.. taste more like plain tap water which smell and taste a bit weird..
*
Lol how you know it is not RO??? don't assume, just because it is outside making money means it is a cheat.

I shall go test those machine with TDS meter if those are real RO or just paip water. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by NINJIAO: Mar 24 2009, 10:20 PM
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 10:28 PM

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Hmm...I think I have to give a bit of history about water and the problems around the world.

Water is an expensive commodity yes although probably not traded as petroleum is, it is still very precious. All around the world, everyone is concern about water shortage. These shortages are as a resulted of overuse, pollution or just that there's limited supply due to the natural environment e.g. desert.

In the US, because of how big the land is, a lot of people has water treatment systems at home and they use groundwater for their daily use. Now in some areas, the groundwater is badly polluted from past industrial activities or historical pollution e.g. tanning of hides, the tannery would simply dump the waste into the river as it's so convenient, including chemicals used to tanning the hides to make leather. A very good example is California, USA. The groundwater in California in certain areas are badly polluted from the 1950s and 1960s due to jetplane manufacturing waste (mostly solvents) as environmental control wasn't as strong as it is now. Other heavy industries have polluted the water cachement areas quite significantly that drinking groundwater is impossible and so, they buy bottled water to drink at home.

Water purification technologies developed over time, mostly as a result of the need for clean water for manufacturing processes. However, some of these technologies are developed to treat drinking water. Depending on the water content in a specific location, the drinking water treatment plant can be technologically advances (huge RO units for desalination in the Middle East, UV light to remove organic pollution in the water) or they can extremely simple with a few processes.

Is RO water good for you? It depends. Not all RO water gives the same result as it changes according to water pressure and chlorine. Some RO membranes are sensitive to chlorine fluctuations and will be destroyed by it. It's either thin-film cellulaste or polyamide : try to google and let me know. RO drinking water quality may not be too bad tbh because depending on the configuration of the system, the water purity may be different. Depends on the number of modules and configuration (single stage, double stage). RO membranes also have a lifetime i.e. they degrade over time so their overall efficiency will decrease.

I wouldn't buy it for home though because maintaining it may be more costly than expected. There is a little clause in the WHO drinking water guidelines about chlorine dosage that in the event of epidemics, the chlorine dosage can increase. Some folks say that an activated carbon filter upfront will help but even that carbon filter will be used up in no time. Also, with RO systems, you are using more water because there is a stream of concentrated "salt" water. I suppose that "salt" water can be used for gardening, if you did have a garden but if you're living in a condominium, it's probalby going to end down the drain unless you have plants.

The author is also generalizing about the big water companies. They are big reputable companies but they don't necessarily make the RO membranes and neither do they hold the patents for the process configuration. GE bought a small Canadian outfit called Glegg and just revamped the website to include free material about water technologies on their website (previously Glegg material and now updated as well). DOW is a chemical company that makes a lot of things, including RO membranes. Their competitor is Hydranautics. But these are big names and they don't make the small RO units that you guys see on the market. At least, I don't recall but I could be wrong.

The leaching of minerals from the body comes from the fact that pure water is acidic. It's known that acidic water will leach out the minerals, be it from the body or in the natural environment. What is not so well-known to the general public is that at a certain purity, the measurment of the acidity in the water is not accurate. pH of the water just cannot be measured. But it's usually of a purer form than is allowable as drinking water.

Carbonated drinks are acidic. Those in science classes should know. Blow a straw into water for awhile and measure the pH and it's slightly acidic. CO2 dissolves slightly in the water and forms a weak carbonic acid.

Hmm...think I'll stop here. Maybe better if you post up a question that you need an answer to about RO and I can help answer. I can't provided the final answer but some direction should be ok. Take it with a pinch of salt. wink.gif

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 24 2009, 10:33 PM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 24 2009, 10:39 PM

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Wow myremi wrote a long fair informative page.

rclxms.gif notworthy.gif rclxms.gif notworthy.gif rclxms.gif notworthy.gif

Thankiu sifu of water.
xavi5567
post Mar 24 2009, 11:01 PM

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well i dont hav ur fancy TDS water testing system to test whether my water is RO or tap water.. but that is wat i c.. most of the time .. i jus those supplier come to take the coin.. i dont c they ever change the filter or membrane.. plus i never even c any membrane sytem in it.. ya i saw the inside of those RO water dispenser outside shoplot.. it hav 1 uv light 3 carbon filter and 1 big about 50 litre tank and the cooling system for cold water and coin system.. tat all.. each time they come they only take the coin.. they come once every 3 week.. and the machine is always used by people.. so i would roughly estimated bout 20+ people a day take at least 5 litre of water out of it.. so tell me how much it can be used b4 anything need to be changed?
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:51 PM

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Hard to say xavi5567. The thing with activated carbon is that it does 2 things mostly :
-remove chlorine
-remove organics

It's not known to remove bacteria in the water industry. It can remove dead bacterial though i.e. those that died from the chlorine dosing but usually, the dosing is added before the inlet.

Activate carbon is a haven for bacteria though. Because of the organics "trapped" in the carbon and the reduce chlorine amount, the bacteria nearest to the outlet will have more bacteria count than at the inlet (where the chlorine content is higher).

Not sure about 3 weeks. There are test kits for bacteria though but I don't know what is the acceptable limit. But it's probably not that bad as long as the water is not stagnant for too long. If it's internally circulating, 3 weeks should be fine I think. If not, well, drinking unboiled water in Petaling Street is equally bad. smile.gif You'll get bad diarrhoa but usually, that's it.


skiddtrader
post Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM

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I'm currently searching for a filter solution for my home. Although initially was to filter out the chlorine smell and taste, after reading the Net I've become more confused. I've read about the detractors of RO water and how it isn't natural. And by the way, isn't rain water more equivalent to distilled water?

As far as I know RO is just another form of filtration, enough to filter out bacteria so you can drink it without boiling. Which comes to my question, why do we boil our water anyway? Just to kill germs and bacteria?

Wouldn't RO water taste flat without the salt that comes with water? I can't remember RO water taste but I do know distilled water taste flat.

Is microwave water even better than RO water or UV treated water?

Would germs grow on RO water filters?
myremi
post Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM

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There is a minimum flow that is used a guideline with pure water to prevent bacteria growth. But that only works with very pure water though.

As for TDS testing system, that is pretty old thinking. Nowadays, water industry tech folks go by specific ions. I think the field test kit strips are pretty cheap. Call up companies in yellow pages. Should be ok.


Added on March 25, 2009, 12:06 amWhat is natural water? And how natural do we really need it to be?

If it's just chlorine, just buy an activate carbon filter. You can see the bacteria growth in the water just by opening the filter and seeing the brown film formation.

Boiling water comes about because of cholera and other water-borne diseases. Our tropical climate is good for them. smile.gif

Taste flat? Water is suppose to be tasteless. You're probably tasting the calcium + magnesium i.e. hard water.

UV is to treat bacteria but damn expensive for home use. Plus, the light bulb has lifetime and it weakens over time. Not to mention that there's a bacteria film that may form over the quartz tube.

Germs will grow on RO filters : germs wll grow everywhere, especially if the RO is stagnant for awhile. At work, the RO modules are only idle for maybe 4 hrs then starts again. Mind you, work is different from home usage (factory needs tons of water).

You won't die lah.

This post has been edited by myremi: Mar 25 2009, 12:06 AM
TSNINJIAO
post Mar 25 2009, 01:18 AM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Mar 24 2009, 11:54 PM)
I'm currently searching for a filter solution for my home. Although initially was to filter out the chlorine smell and taste, after reading the Net I've become more confused. I've read about the detractors of RO water and how it isn't natural. And by the way, isn't rain water more equivalent to distilled water?

Yup rain water is more equivalent to distilled or RO water.

As far as I know RO is just another form of filtration, enough to filter out bacteria so you can drink it without boiling. Which comes to my question, why do we boil our water anyway? Just to kill germs and bacteria?

RO is same like other filteration. only difference is the pores size is 0.0001 micron. 500,000 times smaller than a strand of hair. RO need a water pump or pressure of 40 psi to squeeze water thru the RO membrane. That is why it filters everything out including bad contamination or good minerals. But minerals should be taken from food because minerals in water is very minimal. That is why i'm trying to make a point in here. Your body need water so drink water. Simple. If need minerals then take from food.

Wouldn't RO water taste flat without the salt that comes with water? I can't remember RO water taste but I do know distilled water taste flat.

Uhhh, it taste same to me. hahah. tasteless.

Is microwave water even better than RO water or UV treated water?

You mean put water in microwave? It doesn't remove contamination in the first place lor. microwave it only kills bacteria.

Would germs grow on RO water filters?

Depends on system. but because mostly all filteration system is close system so it would be pretty safe from bacterial growth.

*

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