anyone??

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Added on March 21, 2009, 1:19 pmhow is the salary?

This post has been edited by chong1984: Mar 21 2009, 01:19 PM

bad

where r u working now?

consultant lo

which company??
how is the salary?

salary bad +-2k freshie
which ar its an mnc

which campany...located at where?

kl

*passby...*
i am contractor ^^

ahah i was also in contractor

what is the name of ur company?can share?

i'm a contractor too

can u stated which company u r in?

2.4k b4 confirmation.
plz dun keep askin ppl which company la, many things confidential 1, how 2 tell u?
If u r looking for good pay companies den go find dose big companies like ranhill or KTA la.

hmm...
list down few BIG consutant firm if u are unsure,

KTATenaga
Norman Disney & Young
Eagles Consultants
Petareka
SSP

few others.. i forget d..
will update in my blog in future.. hoho..
party nite.. seeya around

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 21 2009, 10:00 PM

I'm interested in consultancy. I study in mechanical but do not learn anything related to pipeline design or fire fighting n etc need in construction sector (my course more on product design n ofcoz air-conditioning)...so i wan to know if u guys have learnt something about that related to this field in ur course or u actually learn all that (piping design, sanitary system n etc) in work?

of coz, u can learn from work, if u have kind enuf superior to guide u..
but as an engineer, i do believe u can pick up plumbing services by urself, with enough reading of specification and BS standard. understand the principle of it, then would be handy for you as plumbing is the easiest system for mechanical services in high rise designing.. fire is a bit tough with Wet and Dry System..

anyway,
breakdown mechanical services and electrical services..
most profit margin comes from doing V.Engineering in ACMV and Genset, transformer, cable sizing.. u should pay more attention to these..
sorry.. i am contractor..
haha

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 21 2009, 10:08 PM

Thanks for the info coz i not study all that in my course...im more interested in consultancy rather than factory work...

consultancy ?
fresh grads? look thru the info bout those company i stated on previous post then..

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 21 2009, 10:20 PM

u may learn sum principals eg for ac design it'll involve sum heat transfer basics. pressure loss etc all u'll learn during work reading is not the only wat to learn design u need to be involve in the project know wat r the problems faced in not only design but all installation in order to b a good consultant.

r u sure u wan to be 1?work load is huge paywise not on par to the load tat u r handling. compared to other engineers who work in other fields paywise m&e consultant engineers lose out alot.

if u dont have the passion and will for it u'll give up very fast. + its a dirty industry both the seen n unseen ones.

good luck if u decide to cont

KTATenaga
Norman Disney & Young
Eagles Consultants
Petareka
SSP

xcept for NDY other r only well known in msia.

other international ones r

meinhardt (can b found and active in msia)
j roger preston aka JRP(can b found and active in msia)
SKM aka Sinclair Knight Merz(can b found and active in msia)
ARUP(not sure active in msia o not)
Hyder(not sure active in msia o not)
Atkins (not sure active in msia o not)
Maunsell Aecom(not sure active in msia o not)
and a few others

other msian ones
valdun
jentrikon or sumthing
etc

hey guys, have u ever heard of promecor solutions? it's an m&e engineering firm

haha... agreed with nicvoo
final destination of consultancy is becoming associate of the company to get profit sharing, else.. gtfo..
u sure in dilemma if it doesnt goes well

read ur blog and this need sum fine tuning

M&E breakdown into 2 major parts which is Mechanical (M) and Electrical (E) :

Mechanical
- Fire Protection System (spinkler, gas protection, heat/smoke detector system, Fireman Intecome)
- Air-Conditioning and Mechanical Ventilation
- Sanitary System
- Cold Water Hot Water System
- Irrigation System
- Natural Gas Services
- Vertical Transportation System (Lift, escalator, moving walkways, vertical platforms, dummy waiters)

Electrical
- Electrical HV
- Electrical MV

ELectrical LV
- Electrical Small Power
- Electrical Lighting
- Generator

ELV
- PA system
- CCTV
- SMATV
- Telephone
- Structured Cabling System( Data & networking)
- Audio & Visual System
- Building Security System (card access, guard tour system car park barrier access)
- Building Management System
- Earthing & Lightning
- accoustics

new ones
Green sustainable engineering etc.

its very board therefore alot of work n pay wise not rewarding unless u hav the passion n will to learn n self improve u'll b fed up in a very short while. but if u jus do small small projects it'll b enjoyable hahaaha

This post has been edited by nicvoo: Mar 22 2009, 01:10 PM

wow.. fantastic...
will update accordingly ^^
but in depth, place like UAE or western countries, they just dun called this as M&E, its MEP, mechanical, electrical and plumbing, but this term kind of weird for me thou.

yes.. green building which an 'IN' thing over SG, does not been set as an standard in Malaysia yet..
designer can choose to adapting it or just ignore it over MY still..
but in future do hope it will become a enforcement.
all those bugger in government just know to say but nothing is implementing so far...
but quite shocking, my company tendering a project for JKR, its a green btw.

nicvoo: u work in SG rite?

even in sg its called mep

ahh... tats where u r misinformed. the 1st green building in the SEA region belongs to msia. even sg b4 they hav their own ZEB took msia's as a reference. can be said tat msia was the leader till sg came up wif their Greenmark thingy. chk out the site http://www.ptm.org.my/PTM_Building/location.html

there was an article in the star whr they were talkin bout implementing it will b smthing like sg's greenmark n eu's LEEDS well lets c wat they come out wif but wif the rate of bribery n corruption n the lack of maintenance watever they implement also useless.

the main reason for a building to b able to conserve energy is by constant maintenance. sadly in msia not done

those maintenance ppl i work wif while i was a contractor sadly have n "tidak apa attitude" any screw ups call the contractor they never take the initiative to learn how to maintain their system.

i worked in msia then left for sg

Wow Wow... lol
Nicvoo very detail oh.
I'm more to da mechanical engineering part in M & E consultancy.
So far I find plumbing and fire protection to be quite manageable.
ACMV is da hard thing 2 catch hold.

Nicvoo, since u r working in da consultancy line in SG, mind 2 tell me how r they paying da consultants over there in SG?

I do not noe anything bout da green building n stuff coz mine is a relatively small company n developers in malaysia tend 2 go for da dollar sign rather than da environment, so not much green thing involve. But its definitely a great hit in overseas.

As I noe, many consultancy firms tried 2 set foot in UAE but den almost all burnt their hands there. Dunno da actual reason though.

PJ Mechanical engineering consultant. Will update soon.

nicvoo!!

Just a doubts, i taught irrigation system fall into C&S?

i'm doin elec but done some basic mech design.
in msia yeah its still ok not so strict u can do watever u like haha in sg all have their own code of practice for each service so its hell. fire protection is the worst. ACMV also real headaches but hell i'm elec haha

in sg u get rewarded if u go for green plus there r incentives. eg. solar there's rebates from the gov if u use solar. if u get platinum ratings for greenmark the dev,m&e consultant n archi get 1mill each

hahaha y they get burnt is simple. compared to othe countries consultants msia ones r a bunch of ppl who do not explore other possibilities plus they r so used to being corrupt to settle everything tat they cant do wifout it. everything they'll xpect the contractor to settle it.

the work that uae do r very technical. how the hell can they fight wif atkins,hyder,maunsel, arup etc? the experience and knowladge tat these consultants hav compared to msia ones is like comparing heaven n earth

sad to say ang mo consultants to this day r still better n higher regard then asian ones

lets get it straight 1st irrigation u mean landscape irrigation or drainage?
drainage is under c&s
landscape irrigation will b under the landscape consultant however the main infra will b by the m&e eg. tank sizing, collection n distribution of water. the end points like to use drip/sprinkler/etc n how much water will be decided by the landscape guy

diff countries diff services under diff scope eg in msia VTS in under mech but in sg its under elec

I working as consultant as well in Wisma Central (beside KLCC)

I only join this company for 1 year+, because my company do not has enough engineer, I need to take care of 3 projects, all mechanical included (ssuuuuuxxxx), it makes me almost crazy every weeks......any comments

One of my project is the F&N Fraser Business Park, it is a turn key project...i realy don like turnkey project, it always change layout, even the structure work is done, its still change..wtf....

Since the checker consultant for this project is KTA Tenaga, and i heard that, for major project, they got 2 engineers handle ACMV, 1 for CWS, 1 for FF + Lift...so i guess working in this kind of big consultant firm is quite free, and high pay as well......correct me if i am wrong

Thanks

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Added on March 22, 2009, 10:36 pmI working as consultant as well in Wisma Central (beside KLCC)

I only join this company for 1 year+, because my company do not has enough engineer, I need to take care of 3 projects, all mechanical included (ssuuuuuxxxx), it makes me almost crazy every weeks......any comments

One of my project is the F&N Fraser Business Park, it is a turn key project...i realy don like turnkey project, it always change layout, even the structure work is done, its still change..wtf....

Since the checker consultant for this project is KTA Tenaga, and i heard that, for major project, they got 2 engineers handle ACMV, 1 for CWS, 1 for FF + Lift...so i guess working in this kind of big consultant firm is quite free, and high pay as well......correct me if i am wrong

Thanks

This post has been edited by nyencheong: Mar 22 2009, 10:36 PM

I'm refering to drainage & irrigation agriculture. Indeed, im dealing with water control product which my targeted consultant are C&S that involves in drainage & irrigation. Thats why it create doubts on me. Even the local government that im dealing are the Drainage & Irrigation Department(DID).

If 2.4k bfore confirmation in consultant firm, i would say its high

I only got 2k before confirmation.

In consultant firm, i believe you cant request for more, company rarely will pay high.....if request for high salary in construction line, better go for contrator.

lol 3 only count ur lucky stars i've 6 ahahah. its like tat one lo change n change n change. big comp they hav 1 for each service but guess wat same like u they r not handling only 1 project on their hands the hav 3,4 mayb 5 projects its normal else how the comp earn $$ wif only 1 person 1 project?


the m&e r incharge of the main system as i said the tank water collection n pumps to distribute. the end side will be determines by the landscape consultant but this is in sg it mayb diff in msia

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Added on March 22, 2009, 11:00 pmagree 2.4k is very good pay already, i got 1.8k when i started lol sum small ones i heard only 1.6k

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Added on March 22, 2009, 11:08 pmanother thing to add even though the work sucks i doubt its a good idea to post your comp name n location its a small industry everyone knows anyone so careful

This post has been edited by nicvoo: Mar 22 2009, 11:08 PM

nyencheong,
also consultant huh ?

nicvoo,
bout the corruption, its fuking damn true, everyone in industry no matter tom,d*** and harry finding loophole to get kopi o.. specially checker consultant..
yeah... this thread getting more n more informative, i am quite new with 1 yr plus of experience, need learn more from sifu here ^^

UAE case, according to feedback given by my manager, there are too many authority to go thru, each services need go thru each authority and they have more stringent standard to follows..

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Added on March 22, 2009, 11:37 pmu called CONtractor not for nothing..
they carry cultural of conning ppl -.-


This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 22 2009, 11:37 PM

everyone wans a bit of the pie of coz its already a culture. i've also my fair share of bribery

hehehe its the other way round as i said it is the other way round thrs no authority in msia n they folo watever standard tat the dev from eg American dev so folo American standards. if they say no standard to folo usualy they folo the BS back so basically its all BS (aka bullshit)

part of being a contractor is the art of conning well contractor con consultant consultant con client so its in the food chain hahha
another forummer iDK is a project engineer he's quite knowledgeable bout the UAE market i think

i also in this field for almost 1 year since grad from uni. taking care of 7 projects , without any guide from senior engineer, coz my company dun have senior engineer.. only two director which is mechanical and electrical. full of stress for such workload.. btw, my company is the 1 located at bandar tasik selatan..

hahaha so much negative input who still wans to join this industry hahahaha unless u r damn interested in this field join in the fun else dont waste ur time

okok 1 by 1. I've been onli off for a few hours n its loaded with replies.

Gary 1981 : Let me get dis straight. M & E scope of work for plumbing is from da main water meter onwards to da building and everything internal. beyond da main water meter at da distribution pipe is under da scope of C & S. To correct Nicvoo (sorry, no offence), landscape irrigation pping is also under M & E scope of work although scopes varies from project to project depending wats covered in da contract. Any internal drainage or irrigation or waste water piping in da vicinity of da project area would be under M&E scope by right. Check ur contract to confirm.

Nicvoo : Da hardest part in FP I think would be da compartmentation of da basement and da smoke discharge system in da basement. Other than dat, it can be found in da book. UBBL and da red Fire Fighting book. Its always da basement dats giving problems. As for ACMV, always oversize da cooling towers and AHUs. If after da job n it is found out dat da engineers undersized da air conds, or consumes too much electricity, engineers would be in alot alot of trouble. I had 1 job b4 dat they missed out da heat load of da CT scan equip. n da machine almost overheated.

Like I said, overseas emphasize more on da green grren things, wherelse malaysia goes for cheap cheap n even cheaper.

Nicvoo, u still haven't reply me on da salary of a normal M & E consultant in SG. If it is high, I would consider working there also. lol

nyenchong : Turnkey projects r always da pain in da ass. Plans keep on changing. Sometimes b4 M & E comes out with da amended layout, da arch has already come out with yet another set of layout. It would be worse if u have SG clients, famous for being picky n fussy.

Nyenchong + Nicvoo : 2.4k was b4 da economic downturn. It would seem alot too u all but if u r living in KL and PJ area, its not really as good as it seems. Everything is so damn expensive and da living standards r so high.

Nicvoo : My name is in 6 diff projects in da project list but active ones so far r onli 3 or 4. lol. Still, its a pain in da as* when all r tendering at da same time. Its hell.

firecrac : Not onli CONtractors r conman la, we CONsultants also da same wat. Dats y it takes a CONsultant to guard over a CONtractor. Make sense? CONsultants keep an eye on da CONtractors by putting a C.O.W. on site n we all liaise with "see an ass" engineer and LANscape acheeteks. But we all still have 2 report to da S.O.s (Architects) which in turn reports to da "kill I ants" (client)

Endnote : I've been in dis field for 8 months, see no future if I stay in construction for da rest of my life. Would be jumping to another line soon as da economy recovers. Like Nicvoo said, so many negative feedbacks, yet ppl r still goin in dis field. I personally think da knowledge gain being a consultant engineer is much much greater than sales engineer or project engineers coz we overlook all services where da earlier specifies. Although I have yet to find out where shall I put my knowledge into use, but I have a feeling dat dis knowledge will be valuable someday somehow.

Feel free to PM me for details. Good nite. Tomorrow still got a tender document 2 prepare where da tender collection date is day after tomorrow.

none taken as i said it varied between the countries till where the cut off is. in sg the work is only the distribution on whether its drip/sprinkler or watever to water the plants is decided by the landscape guy. drainage will b the work of c&s n archi.



compartmentation will b the prob of the archi they'll do the fire compartments n decide wat type of ventilation needed. theres no such thing as always oversize. oversizing doesnt cause u to consume more elec? by oveesizing how much oversizing d u mean?chillers n ct have night n day load which differs. oversizing equipment means more $$ to get them n also bigger space, bigger equipment loads bigger ducts less headroom, etc. its not as simple as to say jus oversize them lol



dream on hahaha still in asia if u go aus or eu mayb theres better pay. u missed out on the great sg rush hahaha now recession they prefer to get ppl wif xp n they can choose not not like b4 employee market anyone also they take.


SG clients as i say sg hav codes of practice to folo unlike msia its free for all its not fussy its becos ppl hav standard where as msia no standard



i was getting 1.8kpay in kl too. my project is behind hotel istana. so u getting 2.4k as freshie i would say its high



all consultants r like tat. even if u r looking after 1 service. 3 o 4 big ones? o small one?



well i've a nice illustration of archi,consultant.contractor,qs n client in my office pc will upload it tomolo anyway in msia consultants r usualy known as"kam sau koon" in canto. the c&s are customer service while the architects gives us heart attacks



the knowledge u gain being an consultant,contractor,sales,project r all different. u've only been here for 8 months already say no future lol havent even completed 1 project hahaha. havent seen the world yet in 8 months. ppl who join this field mus generally be interested in this field. else like u work 8m run liao


haha i need to do presentation to clients chk shop drawings chase ppl haizzz.. sienzz.....

not enough engineer in your company? Me,Me... if your boss don't mind I know nothing about construction sector and learn from 0

This post has been edited by Alice_1122: Mar 23 2009, 06:19 AM

i also want to tumpang, the company accept internship trainees?

doesnt know so much ppl in m&e sector..
haha..
for me, its exciting doing d&b project, u learn something once every changes, i am electrical engineer, but i learn almost all in electrical and mechanical, c&s and even archi, ID..
value engineering is our key to get earnings, specially in high rise, 1 small changes on 1 floor, changes applied thru all typical floors up.. says 20 floors... 1 floor save rm1, 20 floors = rm20.
as long as m&e earns, u taichi all things to c&s, plaster masonary shaft, core riser, playing with walls and glasses for OTTV, etc etc.. really makes u pockets of dollars ^^

PM me for internship trainee position, but be prepared to work till 8pm ya.

lol
u tai chi there ppl will taichi back so wat goes around comes around

well at least u enjoy ur work tats the way to go to survive

of cos for contractor changes makes them happy no change = nuthing to earn
anyway i wont call it value engineering in msia it'll b called cutting ends hahaa

enjoy ? maybe... yes and maybe no..
construction best fit for workaholic, sadly i am not.. i work for satisfaction on work only.. might consider switching field once i finish my post-graduate program, as i dun feel like conning ppl and runs around corners to earn money in future... or maybe go on PMT side of work.. not in design nor operation..

hahathen i should say u r satisfied wif ur work

still got energy to take post grad studies i no energy at all

Well I tot tai chi is a common practice in SG. Heard from my friends dat every SG fella is a tai chi master, who pushes responsibility to others rather than taking it up on ur own fault.

Depends on wat changes la, if get negative VO means da contractor can eat grass adi la for dat job.

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Added on March 23, 2009, 10:42 pmOn a regular basis, I work till 7 - 8 everyday, after reaching home, shower, dinner n settle down, it would be roughly 9 or 10, 11pm have 2 go 2 bed. Where got time 2 study other courses summore???

This post has been edited by babytensai: Mar 23 2009, 10:42 PM

haha..
u see me good, i see u good only..

pity le... everyday check on client consultant dwg/calculation, totally fade up... our design team screw them, but yet no changes, still comes out with lousy work!IR title with no basic design principle.

revert to them, takes thousand years to comes back!
dulan.. come out with drawings and calculation ownself.. just get them to endorsed..
fade up with lousy consultant, but what to do...
company find cheap consultant for big job, seems like they learn from us more than we learn from them... fade up!!
that's why ppl always said "pay peanuts, get monkeys!"

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Added on March 23, 2009, 10:46 pm

haha.. with so called time management, impossible is nothing



This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 23 2009, 10:46 PM

Yea, diff country diff practice standards, I would say depends more on contract.

In Malaysia, its da M & E consultant's responsibility for da MV at basement coz we need dat 2 get da BOMBA approval n if dat delays, we will get screwed up n down. Oversizing a bit sure got 1 la, not 2 much la, just call it safety factor, pandai pandai la. lol. Slight oversizing can really save u at times when u miss out something or miss out some factors, it simply means dat ur design is more prone 2 changes or have more feasibility. Nothing is perfect though, as it is in every design.

If Consultancy is as bad in SG, y do ppl still put their heads in dis field? Base on a 2k salary for M & E consultants, sales engineers r getting 3k per month plus allowances, service engineers 2.6 inclusive OT n allowances, Oil & Gas line is earning 5 - 6k per month offshore with plenty more benifits. Sad 2 say I do have many friends who work in SG but none of them r in construction, mostly Oil & Gas where they dig black gold.

So far C & S is still ok with us M & E. Da headache is architects n clients. In some cases, landscape architects. For instance, I have a hot spring resort project in Ipoh which had dis lanscape architect who is constantly changing layout till da architect couldn't catch up with him. M & E places da hose reel where it is visible 2 public where else da landscape architect wants it to be out of public sight coz it is red huge n ugly.

Yea I've been in dis line for 8 months n i say it has no future not base on my 8 months experience, but rather by looking at my seniors n bosses' achievements. Quite saddening. If da interest does not come in line with da money, den it does not really work out u noe. After all, we still need 2 survive, eat n feed a family rite, not at da moment but soon enough 2 be.

Shop drawing if no time just find faults n reject onli la, we r da kings in shop drawing. lol.

of coz u pay ppl peanut ppl will produce peanuts for ya. sumtimes bcos of the low fee they dont even bother


i never say tat mv is not m&e's responsibility i meant compartmentation n zoning is by the archi. oversizing again well implicates alot of things how much over sizing is safe?dependson the consultant;s xp tis one no book can teach u.

bomba its always about the $$ u show the $ ur plan approve faster.

its rewarding if u r able to prove tat u r worth the salt. u work as a consultant doesnt mean u'll b 1 for the rest of your life. if u r good u can open your own, else ppl will get u to join them. if u work like shit no need to say ppl c u also run. i know ppl who do i bcos of the passion for the job. the price of being an engineer. these r old skool ppl. never see tis in our generation.

yeah tell the landscape archi to talk to bomba.bomba say ok u can d wat ever u like

contractor also human its the responsibility. irresponsible ppl do tat. if theres no fault y find fault?after all contractors r also only lookin at the $ .sum simply jus dont wanna let the contractor go same like firecrac's case jus imagine u r on the other end how would u feel?i've been a contractor b4 i know.

many consultants in msia r not only running a consultant job they hav other "side income" too

This post has been edited by nicvoo: Mar 23 2009, 11:34 PM

Quite agreed with that achievements thingy, unless you can get profit sharing, else gtfo..
this is what i see also..
and to add, i do think engineer in construction sector are underpaid as they involve risk and responsible also.


Mindset of bribery is totally wrong, man!
i dont believe in all these side income thingy,
be more professional, it's your responsible and ethic to show ppl u are an graduate/professional engineer,
i know its quite corrupted in Malaysia, but everyone do, doesn't mean you must do..
but yet, it is depends on individual.. if the bribe is exceed the professional ethics in you, i am sure everyone will just take it.
btw, anyone know Hamdan the BOMBA officer?
see how our dear BOMBA officer Mr Hamdan now serving in jail / under investigate, is that the reflection of u?
think hard

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 24 2009, 12:03 AM

by side income i dont mean the only the illegal type lol

i know a few eng who hav their own business. sum r property investors, a few hav a hand in sum contractor comps

hahaha too bad the prob is in msia if u dont do it ur project is screwed hahahaha.... if u r not comforable in bribing get ur boss o senior to do it

ur project still in constuction haha wait when tnb come install meter time u'll c the true colours hahaha

so far, i see only clean things la... but i do heard lots dirty things..

as we fight hard for every approval, no matter JKR, BOMBA or what...
we had enough facts to justify our way of doing things are not wrong, they cant just simply ban us right ? if u wan ban, write officially to us with ur reason..

simple example, JKR ask for double sprinkler protection for the entire blocks of 40 storey building, our mechanical design engineer go ahead with having presentation to them, justify to them.. single layer are sufficient, what more with the added smoke detector, and the Dato Pengarah JKR even says its an added value lesson for him, and claps hand to my senior.

Achievement varies from person 2 person. Some say 10k is enough for da rest of my life some say no. I did ask my ex boss something, I asked him did he ever think of being a contractor or developer someday as either one earns more than a consultant. His reply was : Y be a developer or contractor? I'm not a greedy person, I run a small business earn a sum enough for my retirement den enough adi la. In da end, I left him. A little contributed 2 dat reply.

In Malaysia cash is king la, with cash, u can do everything. U can even get a murderer out of prison just like dat. Blast a fella with C4 n walk away like nothing has happened b4. Theres a reason y consultant engineers have low pay. Part n parcel is because of da bribery trend going on. Its sort of a sure thing for bribery 2 become consultant's side income. Luckily my company is famous in da market for being clean. But 2 many, when money comes, to hell da ethics of an engineer goes.

Our HAMDAN chiu yan (salted egg) hoseh liao la, but since he is malay, I bet da shit dat he got outta his bribery career is more than enough to get him out. After a few months later, he would be out as a free man n live a peaceful life in overseas with his bribery left overs never to be heard again.

Well, they pawned da cat dat guards over da fish for good, but yet, they replace its position with an equally hungry cat. Wats da difference? Latest news is dat certified fire protection engineers r paying a sum 2 him for a reason. Thus now if u submit a basement mechanical ventilation thermography chart to BOMBa, they will reject u n ask u 2 get it certified by a fire engineer. In town, they r not many fire engineers, so probably u can guess wat is goin on out there rite.

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Added on March 24, 2009, 12:45 amDose investing stuff can be done by many other professions not onli engineers ma.

In Malaysia its a norm 2 bribe. Everytime client will ask u wat is ur budget for authority contribution fees. Its actually more apart from da usual processing fees.

Next time when TNB installs meter, I'll make sure I be there 2 attend.

This post has been edited by babytensai: Mar 24 2009, 12:45 AM

I don't think you would call them fire engineers. At most you would call them code consultants. The career of a fire safety engineer is practically none existent in Southeast Asia due to the lack of technical knowledege and in cases like Malaysia, corruption.

its very much alive in sg

That's news to me. What companies are doing it and what is their role in a project?

any1 work in JRP? the environment, salary, culture n etc.......thanks.

This post has been edited by MCDC: Mar 24 2009, 04:25 PM

there r many in sg. 1 of the more well know internationally is ARUP. they r doing the fire engineering for alot of jobs. iirc the more well known ones r the marina sands casino, they provide fire consultantcy. in sg the fire code is very stirngent. they do simulation, design, reports etc to get the authority to approve the fire design.

even in msia there r many mega project by oversea dev who employ them to do these stuff but whether in the end they folo o not is another story

i hav a lot of x-jrp consultant even secretary frens ahaha so u figure y they r x

Yes I am consultant.

nicvoo, i knew this industry is small, therefore i didn't post my company name....because in the same building, there got at least 2 engineering consultant firm...lol, so i won't afraid, some more to share my things, so that other people won't join as well....haha

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Added on March 24, 2009, 8:48 pmGuy, mind to share how much ur salary?



This post has been edited by nyencheong: Mar 24 2009, 08:48 PM

For the mega projects, I reckon the engineers employed are international consultants? A local consultant might hop on board but that's really to provide consultation about local Building Regulations from my past experience.

Other than international companies like Arup, there isn't much local consultant doing all these engineering?

Also, are the design really for code compliance, i.e. you do what the code tells you or is it engineering, i.e. start from scratch approach?

I just got my SYABAS approval last month, but it already ding dong for 4 months since my first submission. They will have one o 2 silly requirements in between the letter, so read carefully n comply, unfortunately, we miss that out, n end up with half a year approval, really thank God i got it, but in between i spent a lot of energy n man power n time to do lo......really afraid of SYABAS, but BOMBA so far they still friendy wit me, nothing much obstacle......m i right?

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Added on March 24, 2009, 9:04 pmI strongly believe the thing u taichi out, it will come back to u one day........especially C&S, u taichi to them sure they can taichi bck to u one day n even worst.....actually fresh engineer handling few projects, i dun think can learn much design work, for me, i can only learn coordination works, and the fault in the design, beside, the main thing i learn is going to meeting, how to protect myself (I am ready my amor everyday) .......sien
"I will come back to you later." "I will discuss with my boss and come bck to u." "ok ok no problem" "reply to u within this week." ......blar blar blar.....sometimes pretend they are singing also....
Sorry about that, i am really getting bore n bore to my job.......

This post has been edited by nyencheong: Mar 24 2009, 09:04 PM

not really alot of mega project in msia r local consultants. international consultants cant really penetrate the msian market. tats for m&e u dont really c the presence of arup, ndy, meinhardt, skm etc. reason y they cant work in msia?simple the fees r too low.

not all can jus folo code n get settled wif it. not every building is the same. not every situation is the same.fire engineering is for protection n to avoid/minimize loss of lives n damage. of cos everything start from scratch but u'll need sum guide 2 tell u whether tat u doin is at least acceptable.

u cant design fire protection for a house same as fire protection for a shop. the code tells u wat design is suitable for a house or a shop in a way u dont over desing neither do u under design.

same like u go traveling alone u at least need a guide book to tell u whr to go no?u jus catch the plane there n start walking around?

if folo code = engineering y design?jus tell contractor folo code to do installation will be more then sufficient.

in sg thr r a few local ones. in msia as u say its non existent

Wat I say is actually quoted by suppliers from a very famous ventilation fan company. Its not a common sight for Fire engineers to come on board in a project in Malaysia, so its like I said, something fishy goin on behind.

As SG is a place where rules n regulations do da talking, thus I reckon such engineers do exist in SG. Words from a staff who worked in da construction line in SG b4 working in my current company is dat they too have 2 submit da basement jet fan thermography chart to da authorities but officials in SG check it throughly where else in Malaysia, its just for da sake of procedure coz no one in BOMBA noes how 2 intepret it.

1 reason international m&e consultant don't want step in Malaysia, is the way ppl do work. how many design engineers u know really carry values with them ? even got, left are hose old timer, ppl will for sure will not invest in low fees and comes even worst with the NEP thingy grows up lazy bums in authority department, which are only corrupt.

but yet, d&b is the trend now specially in mega project, which really beneficial for contractor.. follow code doesn't mean no design changes and VE, it depends how ur design team of contractor works too, blind contractor which do postman job will definitely be phased out in future.

btw.. fire engineer are the master of trades in m&e services.. and they earn the most in the industry according to some statistic i found in internet, but i think it doesn't apply in Malaysia thou.

nah.. u cant say like tat. some developments r owned by large oversea developers therefore the design they'll want it to comply with sum sort of code. take seagate for example. american comp their factory fire design all folo american codes.

to get jobs u need to be well connected. sumtimes the local consultant get the job but they do not hav the xp n resources to the fire design therefore they engage a fire consultant.

not everything is fishy. yes in sg. if u r going for the jet fan ventilation design u need to prove it works to the authorities by simulation. its called performance based designs. if u do the conventional ducted mv u dont need to.

which supplier quoted so? very famous ? nicotra ? kruger?

jetfan? haha... JKR reject it totally without 2nd thought, with this kind of mindset, how to grow?
bare in mind, jetfan only been approved by BOMBA but not JKR, if your job involve JKR in place, just forget it man..

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Added on March 24, 2009, 10:36 pm

it happens in Malaysia only if the client insist to, specially in manufacturing and aviation industry as what i know of.

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 24 2009, 10:36 PM

tats 1 reason. most importantly is tat internatinal consultants quote their fees using man hours. in msia lol local consultants spoil the market by quoting lump sum. so those international ones where got wanna waste time n $$ to do msia jobs? lol

d&b have good n bad u cant say its beneficial to the contractor shit still happens the contractor still got to eat it.


no jkr hav the right to reject it. jetfan technology has never been put to work in a real life situation b4. therefore alot of places not only msia do not approve it. in sg its approve but u need to do simulations report etc.

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Added on March 24, 2009, 10:43 pma few shoppin malls also hav fire consultants, it all really boils down to the developer

This post has been edited by nicvoo: Mar 24 2009, 10:43 PM

that's really true about the lump sum thing, that's why engineers get peanuts pay!
get peanuts pay, u don't feel rewarding, then u look for backdoors, ppl see u getting good money doing nothing, then everyone also want to share the cake, this goes in round and at last, it spoil the whole culture of construction sector.
Construction sector in Malaysia is just like places for old folks.. ppl stay in there because they are there for times, and looking for so called backdoor, very less ppl can stay in there unless u really really really interested in m&e, i know its sad, but true..

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Added on March 24, 2009, 11:01 pm

very sad but true, project engineer are likely from shaolin clan, they learnt to withstand hits, while project manager are from taichi clan, they push balls around. remember this, u will feel better when u attend CCM meeting.

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 24 2009, 11:01 PM

Nicvoo : Of course if they follow American standards they will need fire engineer's certification, but its not a norm 2 do so in Malaysia. Usually we let da smiling agong heads on purple papers do da talking. Da new shopping mall along LDP at da end of SS2 used 20k for its approval.

Firecrac : I agree with wat u say. Dats actually wats bringing down da quality of consultants. Da new generation use bribery ignoring da standards, solo consultants who does shitty job tenders projects with dirt low prices, dats y consultants r paid peanuts, coz most ppl think they r monkeys. I should say many of da consultants in asian developing countries r so. I'm sure if u have seniors n bosses, u would have heard them say dis : Last time long long time ago bout 20 - 30 years ago, consultants have a glowing ring on their heads. Now, consultants r so dirt cheap dat everyone can bully them, even contractors. If u have friends in Japan, US or other develop countries, u will notice dat consultants in those countries r much more well paid than Malaysia, because of da various reasons dat u've mentioned b4. Consultants now have no value, not respected, treated like dirt. Imagine Architects fuking we consultants up n down. In overseas, its da other way round.

CCM is a very good experience n clear cut of wat is happening in a project where all da project politics come up. Like u say, taichi, followers, n all. If u've been 2 Sunway CCM den u understand their way of doing things. If 1 of da project team member is absent be it landscape, M& E or C & S, everyone will start pushing problems n blaming him. Contractors will be like : Dis is not in my contract. If u wan me 2 do, issue EI lo, (they can use VO 2 claim money ma), some contractors even bypass consultants n bring up da problem 2 da client or achitect.

Sad sad case for consultants in Malaysia. If I were 2 stay in dis line for long, its not advisable 2 stay in Malaysia n be a consultant. It takes time for dis negative trend 2 correct back, n I dun quite have da time for dat. sad case. Nicvoo, I'm coming 2 SG soon. lol.

20k ? bomba test?

i would say different ppl which take different part in the whole project, they looks for different benefit, contractor's consultant looks for fees, the faster the part of job done, the faster they cuci tangan, they just rush and donkey do it, client's consultant must find loophole for back-charge contractor, so they drag time for approval, and show client they are actually doing works, while contractor like ding dong for longer period, get more cash, claim more VOs, while architect suppose to lead the whole project team, if that architect is kind of passive guy, then whole project sure fuk-up, i do found many architect company in Malaysia are more passive unless those international ones.

Be patient.. u haven't finish even 1 job yet, why rushy ?

I'm no longer young u noe. If I were 2 ding dong here n there without making any decisions soon, I would end up with nothing in da end. Soon, I'll be having kids, a family, n so on. Once these burdens set in, da spirit fire will be douse of a certain percentage. There is no more urge n motivation 2 venture into another field anymore. Dis is wat I'm afraid of.

Totally agreed......and that why in foreign country, the client will respect consultant, and they are really doing the things they should do.......while in Malaysia, the client ask consultant to change, n i am 100% sure the consultant will change it, without considering the original design is good o not!!!!

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Added on March 25, 2009, 8:34 pmAgreed with the CCM issues as well, people will push all the responsibility to the person who absent........n contractor will say its not their scope, n they are not interested......nothing consultant can do at this moment....just take the responsibility, end up with big canon, M16, rifle pointing us.....haih

This post has been edited by nyencheong: Mar 25 2009, 08:34 PM

That's not entirely true though. If a client (i.e. who's paying you) wants something changed, you will need to change it. Or else they will just find another consultant.

its not a bed of roses here either bro i jus counted i hav 7 projets on going not to mention the ones which stopped.even in sg if the contractor is in good terms wif the client they can jus by pass u. tats life everywhere also same.

come sg?at is time?lol unless u r joining health care i dont c any industry which looks stableenuf to ensure they dont kick u out b4 ur probation is over

yeah Geminist is right. the client employs u to help does wat he want else employ u for wat? same like u employ a servant at home. u tell her to wash ur clothes next min u change ur mind n wan her to iron them so the servant should do wat?

as a good consultant u'll need to advise the client whether the changes r implementable o not and the cost will it cost triple or will the system crash n burn after installed. as the client of cos they hav lots of ideas to implement its all money leh they will wan the best. but in saying so if the client makes a bad decision u need to advise them. if they dont wanna listen then write in b&w i've advise u any out come i'm not responsible.

same for the servant case if the clothes r smelly n dirty u her to iron them a good servant will tell u its smelly need to be washed b4 iron. or u wan her o blindly jus iron them??consultants cannot blindly folo else anything happen will come after your head.

if that is a "GOOD" consultant, then there is the things, but sadly... some consultant can't even justify things with logic and analytic practices, no choice contractor have to ask them to change, i do feel many unqualified engineer are too proud of themselves, u are king on papers, but not when comes to site work, u cant even imagine the pipe work, duct work, busduct run in a simple schematic drawings, how u going to justify to me u are so called professional engineer? blind design will just get laughter from ppl, worst still, all these ppl i mentioned here is come from the top consultant company which nicvoo mentioned previously. hoho.. watever... dont push balls around.. we are in this game from the start, we just can follow it, client > checker > contractor > client's consultant >

babytensai : wah... so serious.. haha... don't think this industry guarantee much future if u are so rushy but job hop only when economic stable la, now what industry also not looking good..

p/s : we should arrange some beer session to release the stress, man! hoho

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 25 2009, 11:26 PM

lol some r jus plain lz get a PE in name only no xp at all. in msia too easy to get a pe. sume jus sign blindly. sg its harder to get a pe but still sum younger pe in sg know nuthing.

dont so fast go judging tat they dunno their stuff. there r many ways to play the game. one f it is to let u run till when u hit a wall they'll jus gif u an xtra kick. same contractor also always act blur everything consultant tell only do there r good ones thr r bad ones

one of the important criteria of being a contractor need to hav is the ability to drink hahahah. i remember when i was a contractor almost everyday also drnk sigh those were the happy days hahaha

I've just gotten my BEM certificate last month, n there is a clause dat bout da PE exam. It states dat to qualify for da exam, u will need to have 1 years experience under a PE and 2 years engineering service. Thus, I would have 2 be in a consultant firm for 1 year n for da rest of da 2 years, I can hop around in da construction line to get my PE. I'm not sure though but if its true, its good news.

Da bottom line is dat if anyone in da project team dat is weak technically, he or she will definitely get bullied left n right, be it architect, client, consultant or contractor. I've bullied an architect b4, she was a 30+ year old architect, but still if she does not noe anything other than her scope of work, she will get bullied.

Drinking? Not so much for consultant la. Everyday work till so late where got time 2 go for drinking session?

lol tats y anyone is a pe in msia regardless whether they know anything o not

What are the differents working with consultant n contractor as M&E engineer huh...in term of what u can learnt n job scope?

Consultants do designing work. Contactor is more oriented towards project management. I think.

lol wat project management dunno dun anyhow say

consultant design n set the specification n standards contractor build n install accourding to the design n specs set by the consultant

Ooo...i see...if i work with contractor then most probably will doing site engineer work?? and will learn little on design compare to consultant?? Some big construction companies like muhibbah, gamuda, mudajaya...they r contractor rite?? but they have their own design team doing design oso leh.....

contractor which have own design team is called "design & build contractor"
its like contractor can propose any other alternative ways to make system works with better system, energy efficiency, double protection or maybe cost saving, engineering is much more bout finding alternative ways to do the way clients wants.
so, what consultant A said doesn't be what consultant B or maybe contractor C thinks and follows, we called it design preference in better words, its a win-win strategy.

So these contractors' design team also doing the same task as consultant lo??

not really main contractor wifout their own design team also can b d&b contractor. they usually look after the civil works. for m&e they jus hire a few m&e staff to do coordination n sum simple design. they can always employ a consultant for them. the dont need to waste $$ to set up a m&e dept.

depending on contract. in d&b usually the client side hire their own consultant whilst the contractor side will also hire their own consultants. usually d&b client side jus come out wif the skeleton. the contractor will develop it from there. so the contractor will rely on their consultant to dev the design tell where miss out to claim vo where to value engineeer etc

I also don't know how to differentiate the engineer who work in consultant and contractor since both also need to do design and go to site as well...

contractor's design team do value engineering and propose alternative ways of designs.
all dwg, authority submission, liasing with internal consultant is done by so called contractor's consultant then.
eg, for my company contractor's design team just study on tender dwg by client consultant and they work merely on alternative ways to come out with cheaper and efficient alternative, and this proposal is then brought up to internal consultant to do all the detailing later, which include conceptual design brief, design drawing, design brief, design calculation up to construction drawings.

and don't think many job have so called internal consultant, unless it's d&b and involving big scale which worth paying the fees.

This post has been edited by firecrac: Mar 27 2009, 09:48 PM

lol u strt work ma know lo.

contractor eng wont really do design.the develop the given design or at most draw what he's gonna install on site.submit calculations,shop drawings, as and any req tat the consultant requires

consultant fully do design.higher lvl ppl will do project management, resources planning, authority approval etç

i got the salary of RM2420 nett.

i not sure bout outside, i myself is in a m&e company by itself, so we have almost everything for m&e company, from design team, to technical, to operation, QA QC, BQ, Claims, all these is done by our own engineers, we carry japanese construction cultural which emphasize on multitasking, we hire internal consultant just to do donkey's job to produce dwg and authority submission, and even internal consultant are seeking our response and reply on every issues pertaining on design or technical issue.

i believe every company carries different cultural and structure, it hard to judge the way how a company structured then..