Congratulation and maybe you need to change the picture...........she has grown up just like the forum.

Just a suggestion, my friend.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Feb 17 2009, 04:16 PM

DL is a great guy and if he is there, he will be able to convince them all provided they allow him enough time to address the issue. Others, I cannot give my comment but DL was an old friend and I know him too well not to trust him.

Take my words, if he is allow to speak and he really speak well and none stop for over few hours,gee and the most importance of all, he is our friend and a reliable trusted friend.....and he know the buz......

DL, go for it and don't missed the ball as we all depend on you....

"As for our beloved H....really `Luck Sei'...Don't dare to talk much....at the end he said he is only a blogger and not an expert n he said
he also don't know how to move the birds !!!....

ehh???......how come different from his planned presentation paper ??..we read his paper which we do have a copy.....ohh...different ohh....the paper mentioned him as EXPERT THAT CAN SHIFT BIRD'S .....now totally 360 degree change liao !!!...."


Why still have to condemned H, haven't he tried his best to correct his mistakes....so..let it be and no more. He has suffer alot and has paid for the mistake. By admitting that he is only a Blogger and not an expert and that he don't know how to move the birds and keeping his mouth shut is already sometime we shall be proud of him.

Every man has his pride and he know that he make a mistake and he admit it if what you have posted is the truth and what H has done now is something hed should be proud and be forgiven.

Hopefully, H will lend a hand for DL and others trying to save the BHs.

Let begone be begone............. another friend @ meeting is alway better.

I will be looking forward to the day when we discuss only about how to improve our BHs.

DL, we are depending on you to do God's work.

We won the war and it is the beginning as Kedah is the first stop before PBT proceed to other states and kedah representative is tasked to make another more simplify proposal for our national guidelines as the MB of kedah also found the draft guidelines too many red tapes.....and needs to be simplify to help this industry PROSPER.....


WE WON THE WAR, but the battle has just began..........there will many more such wars before the battle can be won. Luckily, we have a MB who have a heart to hear us out and a speaker like DL who can talk well. There will be many more wars and many more MBs and hope all MBs do have a golden heart, too.

With Generals like DL on the front line, we have the confidence in winning the battle but we must not let our guard down. All Focus on our battle and no more internal fighting. We appreciate and thank those who help in the battle.

West,
It was just a battle....the war is made up of many of these battles.
The Authorities must be convinced that relocating is a futile effort.....and rightly many have pointed out that these are free flying birds not captives.
So, compensation is in order if they want to take that road. ..............

Yah...U C, sori even battle and war got mix up, I am also feeling hopeless just like our brothers in Sarawak..... confused and maybe alittle insane and don't know what to do: to give the Robbers the keys or to have your BH force in. Don't we have Laws to prevent these from happening and aren't our Federal Law supersede their state law. So many questions but no answer. I should have study Laws and I will now be with our brothers @ Sarawak instead of watching by the side line.

Wise Judges, Smart Lawyers and experts in Laws.....reading this forum...help those poor and desperate Malaysian seeking your advice and help to prevent such killings...like the killing field......where is your heart and aren't your's make of the finest things.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Feb 18 2009, 08:37 PM

20 Ways You Can Save Our Wildlife

Some "dos" and "don'ts"...

1. Do not buy bones, skulls, teeth, trophies or feathers of wild animals.
To obtain these product, animals have to be killed and you are encouraging the wildlife trade.

2. Do not think of our wild animals (such as wild boar and deer meat) as exotic food.
If we continue to eat these animals at the current rate, there will soon be none left. There is plenty of beef, chicken, fish and other meats available.

3. Don�t think of wild animal parts as having medicinal value.
For most of the times it is not true. A simple fact - the rhino horn is made of the same stuff (keratin) as your finger nail. Therefore, if you have a fever, would you cook and eat your finger nail?

4. Do not think of hunting for wild animals as a sport.
It may be a sport to you but it is certainly not a sport for the animal.

5. Do not hunt for sale or trade in wildlife.
Commercial sale of our animals reduces the tourism potential and regeneration potential of our forests, and is bringing some species close to extinction in Sarawak.

6. If you have no other sources of food and are allowed to hunt animals for subsistence, do not hunt any protected or totally protected species. These are so rare that if they are hunted, they might become extinct.

7. Do not poison the rivers when you go fishing.
Poison kills almost everything in the rivers. Besides, it is illegal to do so.

8. If you are fishing using jala (cast nets) or jaring (drift nets), do not use nets with small mesh sizes. We encourage the use of bigger mesh sizes as this allows juvenile fish to escape capture.

9. Do not fish near the shore, especially in the mangroves. The mangroves are critical breeding grounds for most fishes and prawns.

10. Do not keep wild animals as pets. This includes birds like mynas, hornbills and parrots. By discouraging the pet trade, you are helping to eliminate the harvest of animals from the wild.

11. Do inform the National Parks and Wildlife Service if you encounter illegal activities concerning wildlife. Examples of some illegal activities are : hunting inside national parks and hunting or keeping protected or totally protected species without a licence.

12. Do learn about ways to conserve our animals. Subscribe to a wildlife magazine and watch nature programmes on TV.

13. Make education your objective when you next visit a wildlife centre.

14. You can contribute to wildlife conservation. Donate to a nature society or club. The contributions are often tax deductable. GIVE to SAVE!!!!

15. Be a volunteer for a nature society or club. Your efforts are valuable.

16. Encourage your school, club and friends to have talks and debates on the values of wildlife conservation.

17. Do take photographs of our wonderful wildlife. Show them to your friends.

18. Encourage your friends and family to respect Wildlife. The animals contribute to your well-being.

19. If you have the option, think of wildlife conservation as a career. It is extremely rewarding.

20. Finally, remember this saying, "In the end, we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand, and we will understand only what we are taught." Bring a friend to a Wildlife Centre and learn more about Wildlife conservation.

Above are 20 ways on how to save wildlife by the Sarawah Forestry @
www.forestry.sarawak.gov.my/forweb/np/mgmt/educ/ways.htm to save wildlife......what I can say is Bullshit and you can eat your own shit.

Pardon my manners.

---

Added on February 19, 2009, 12:53 pmBEST PART
20. Finally, remember this saying, "In the end, we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand, and we will understand only what we are taught." Bring a friend to a Wildlife Centre and learn more about Wildlife conservation.
This is the best part...... Kursus dari Sarawah Forestry
We will conserve only what we love........money and more money
We love only what we understand............money and more money
We understand only what we are taught....money and more money
Lastly, we understand that wilflife conservation is all about the money, money and more money.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Feb 19 2009, 12:55 PM

(You can ask any of your local bn association committee members, what do you think of David Lim, they will straight away tell you all nonsense!! as they knew Mr David Lim will not hesitate to f*** them up if they not do their job protecting farmers !!!....)

Hey......you are saying all BH Associations BODs are bad...just like sheeps, there white and black. Esp. Chinese being Chinese and they have their own mind and that's good and bad. They care for themselves in good time and only come together in bad time. One of my committees has this to say" We are with the President. When the President say stand up and everyone obey and stand, but when then President say Foward and eveyone forward but opposite way".

I hope that our readers are not the type. So, when DL say go, we all go the same way, right?????

I have always thought that you need a court order to break into a building legally and why the these have to happened in Sarawak. This is day light robbery and yet nothing can be done. Is this Malaysia kind of justice and what type of Law is this?? Do we have a Lawyer Tan or Judge Wong @ forum to explain to us from the point of Law????? Get a court injunction to prevent such incidence from happening again and seek legal redress for those BHs destroyed but I beleive all Sarawak BH owners are really afraid of offending the WH and his gang so they rather open their door for taxation. Better pay protection money to the gang to approve your BHs if you are afraid but I personally will never pay to legal gangsters, I rather they burn down my BHs if they insist to open.....burn down together with those who try to tear down the BH. If I have my way, I will fight the bad guys in court till the end...it is better then to beg for lesser punishment for no wrong today and promise allow them to punish you later. Paying compound for having a BH is to admit wrong doing and anytime in the future, they can tear down your BH because you have admitted wrong doing.

Above, are my personal comments on the matter (I am not a Lawyer) as I really feel sad and helpless for you all BHs owners @ Sarawak all seem not be doing anything positive at all...... unless I wasn't in the light. Pardon me if I am wrong and I hope that I am wrong!!!
Agreed tp move in 3 years or 5 years, then what unless you are buying time to change the sky. Any sky will be better than the one now....

I would suggest a solution for the Bh @ town , a win win situation where the Pro and Anti BHs can coexist . As we speak for the BH owners and we must also take into consideration for the general public concerned of their health. Although, we know that Swifltet’s shit are harmless to human and that human andswiftlets can coexist, we need to think of their fear and concerned….I would if I do not know and I wouldn’t take the trouble to know or should I?????
My suggestions are that
1. All new BHs@ town should follow some form of guildlines to ensure that all have been done to ensure others of their safety, health and welfare.
2. I would suggest that all BHs have the following:
a. At no time should there be any contact between the general public and the BHs by sealing the smell, pollution and sound away from the public.
b. Instate of Ventilations holes facing the outside, they should be all diverted up to the ceiling and eco filtering like having a roof garden for example . ( I may have a design)
c. All external of the building should be maintained as normal and internal walls must be added to both front and back and ventilations holes are only allow from the top to prevent any sound, pollution and smell from going out and falling on to the public, thus minimize any complaints.

d. All human entrance should from the back lane to minimize any disturbance to business @ shop, like removing birds’ waste and birdnests not to mention dirty clothing and shoes. All entrance should first lead to a bathroom to clean up before leaving the BHs.
e. Sound system should be at approved level and that all sounds . external (70% facing up) and internal should be turn off by 8 pm. At present, most of our complaints are from the internal sound which are disturbing neighbors’ sleep. even my neighbours and my family living in housing estate is complaining about the BH shop lots behind giving them sleepless night and after complaints, a few weeks of soundless and good sleep and then again Saturday night fever begin. Luckily , most of us either are BH owners or having members of family in this industry, else don't know what will happen!!!!! Personally, I have been successful without any internal sound. In the middle of the night, even cricket sounds so loud.
f. Instate of action taken on the BHs, the local council should encourage all existing BHs to follow the above by giving incentive like reduce license rate like A type(50% discount), B type(25%) or C type(no discount). Action to demolish should only be taken on the very stubborn to ensure harmony, peace and happiness for all and not only for the BH owners.

Again, above are my personal suggestion to curb the present BHs complaints and mostly what if and if it happens. What you don't see or hear you don't complain.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Feb 21 2009, 05:49 PM

[quote=kuching_farmer,Feb 21 2009, 07:23 PM]
FORMULA
P = 15+ years in refrigeration service. Only 5 yr in BH industry. Well verse only Chinese. Very good convincer. Can talk to birds to go into empty house. Very innovative and top salesman and opportunist. Can create and sell everything including shit. Very good businessman. Everything no profit, no do, no friend, no guarantee. Very successful and strictly business.

W= pioneer, bought Datukship, speak only Chinese, mouth very smelly. Trade in all dried seafood including stolen nests. Treat association like personal sendirian berhad. Same feather like J, but cannot flock together. Cannot see eye to eye with P.

J=Very ‘good’ man, anyone go through him sure come out naked including his brothers, sister, nephews etc……..

[/quote]
dun understand what u mean... who is W , J and P ?????

[/quote]

[/quote]
past posting......
Dear sifu and old timer swiftlet industry .............
As a newbie we hardly have a one way smooth journey in this swiftlet industry..............
Always bang the wall here and there..........
Any old timer and sifu can enlighten......... who is the helpful old timer in southen part of P. Malaysia ??????????
phang kam wah ???
wong tao onn ???
or someone else ????????? rclxub.gif

So U know lah and J, no need to explain, right!!

From my simple mind that tell me that only birds whose feet touches the ground could get bird flu like chicken, ducks and others even bird of prey.

Swiftlets never touches the ground and virus will never reach and affect swiftlets unless thru human. That' the reason I always against human feeding swifltets and the swiftlet are feed by dirty hands and lay to rest on the infected floor full with dangerous virus and bacteria.

Swiftlet has antibody that fight viruses and that why the nests are good for the lung. I always tell myself to take plenty of BN regularly and be virus free and so far for the past many years, I don't even has simple cold.......honest and the true.


Again, above is my littler understanding of swiftlets and I am so confidence that for the past over 10 years, I never wear any protection in my BH full of B & S and I am still here talking to you all after over 10 years serving my precious swiftlet. Sometime< I spend over 5 hours in the BH doing harvesting and maintenance job, then washing up and putting my legs in to a pond outside the BH to allow the fishes to clean my legs. You should try it as the fishes do a nice job of servicing you tired feets.

Should Swiftlets carry the virus, I shall be the first to get it......unless jealous and bad man has a hand in it........

---

Added on February 22, 2009, 4:59 pmAnother thing is be very careful, if there is a outbreak of bird flu in your area, all birds within 5 kilometer will be destroyed including swiftlets even we all know that swiftlet never carry the virus.

Don't rear chicken or and birds for that matter near your BH and discourage other from doing so.......otherwise, you do have a clean up BH and nothing can be done.....................warning.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Feb 22 2009, 04:59 PM

We cannot force others change their minds and actions, but we can always change ours’. We cannot stop others talking something we dislike but we can choose to talk nice if we really want. Q:Engineer Lee

# 3 chinese at a meeting will have 3 different views or opinions on a same topic but at least, let it be for the betterment of Swiftlets and nothing else.

Let me give you a story of why the Korea is more developed than most of other countries , not because they are smart ( a Korean of Chinese decedent once told me that Korean are not smart), but because they all can be single minded and focus on one subject.

10 heads is always better than one smart head but if all BH owners (all are smart or otherwise won't be in the buz) heads are one, they can change the world...... and DL won't be begging for help............give your strength and time to DL................and his gang. ignore those traitors as we have informed all friends to beware of them and they will disappear.

I wish the Govt. consider the after effect of their action to prevent BHs @ town because what will happen will be unforgivable. Shamefully, that's may be what I am hopping for as I maybe able to buy back at 30% of the price that I sold.

What will happen to the whole of Malaysia where most of the unsold or empty shoplots that being converted to BHs and now all will be for sale and there will be a glut and all will suffer...first the BH owners, then the developers, then the market and last the Govt. It will be worst now with our economy. The government should support the town BHs as the main source of Birdnests are from Town swiftlets BHs. Can someone give some statistic of how much contribution from the BHs out of town????

It will be putting our economy back and how are the Govt objective to put Malaysia the top producer of Birdnests. When the main source has been cut and most of the destroyed BHs birds will most probably fly to neighbouring countries. Please check it out with Haiwan experts and you will know that Swiftlets can fly over thousand of miles without stopping and what to stop them from flying to Indonesia....crazy if you think that the birds will just migrate to the Eco Parks? By offering the birds incentives like we do with human being or by giving the birds free lunch or dinner?? The birds stay at that particulaar location because they like the location and moving them to another specific location is easily said than done cos' doing it is impossible.

I have a joke to share. long time ago, my neighbour asked me a question" Why your BH has so little shits but plenty of nests and mine, all shits and very little nests" I answer" because I told my birds to clean up in your BH before return to sleep in my BH, you (birds) shouldn't dirty the bed, do you???? How's the joke?

..........it all mean that by playing sound @ Eco park may draw alot of birds to play but none will stay and it is the staying birds that we are interested and not the visitors. If the birds like the town and the town they will stay and no way can you invite them to stay at your place if they don't want to. Is that the birds choose and not we choose for where they will stay. Let the BHs @ town contribute to the country's economy and also with the town birds, only those @ Eco Parks or out of town BH can florish...without the core and the main source of birds to support, all other areas of BHs will fail badly. Don't kill the source of the swifltets as the Govt did with the Sarawak caves due to bad management and greed. Else, all swiftlets in Malaysia will perish.

Taking about bringing up the case and let the court decide, that I have mentioned but no one whose BH have been broken into seem to have taken the initiative, otherwise their birds still there.....this way, we buy time, we let the world know, and we still have a change that the court will decide in our favour. I am willing to contribute even the trouble is in Sarawak cos' like virus, they spread fast and need to stop them at the bud.

I think that the measurement should be 6 meters from the building wall outside of the BH facing toward the BH. If your External tweeters are facing upward over 70%. you maybe safe.............try it as we are using the Decibel meter for our Association. If even 60 meter facing a tweeter, you will exceed 40DBL.

I believe there is an international way on how to measure......

As for the sound meter, we have use it before and we have proven that we can passed the requirement if it is measure from the outside of the BH provided the tweeters are all aim at the sky instead of your neighbours' BHs as most of the new BHs are doing with the instruction from their consultants.

Another thing that I may add is that most consultants require you to change sound often and for that I strongly disagree. If the good is going, keep riding and only change when the it is no longer attracting any birds into your BH for the external tweeter.....

I have so much problem telling all new BH owners to do the following which have been advised by the consultants.

1. Sound need not be too loud as that will worsen the situation if your BH is already drawing birds in.......
2. Changing of sound when the good is riding will create distraction and the shit will tell.
3. Internal sound is always necessary if the birds feel secure and only be used when the bird feel unsecured.
4. Using Bird sound in the middle of the night only disturbed the neighbours and nothing good will come as if there is already birds in the BH, their sound are different during the day and night and so what for having the day sound in the night or the night sound during the day. Better let the birds make their own music. If the the BH has no birds, then what are the noght sound for?

Having a good sound that is like able by the birds is not easy but changing the good sound will destroyed the continuity of the increment of nest building although the old birds will stay to build nests no matter what you do....you may even on your light and play Micheal Jackson songs and they still make nests ........maybe slower..

Again, above are my humble suggestions on what to do and expect. Others who think otherwise, please kindly feel free to comment.

Banning new BH in town is very selfish of any BH owner to speak out. It is like having monopoly buz and if someone ask you why you can and I can't.....what's are you going to answer??

The better solution is that all new BH in town must follow some strict regulations which the old ones need not as there have been built before the implementation of the new regulations.

The building must have the following
1. Totally cut off the Swiftlets sanctuary (BH) from human therefore prevent any contamination if any in future. Although, we all know and it is proven that it is safe that swifltets and human can live side by side even in the same floor......prevention is always better for cure. Also, this way, any smell or dust can be avoided from affecting the public.
2. Approved and practical waste disposable. This shall be very simple to do.
3. Preventing sound disturbance from being a nuisance.

All the above can be work out and should be fair to all Malaysian, may them be Pro or Anti BH @ Town...........Many of those devils are against BHs for personal reason or greed. If they want to settle the BH problems, we will help them to find the solution and design. Now, they go for the Town BHs and later the Agri BHs......sama sama mati kalau tidak bersatu hati!!!

Again, above are my own suggestion and hope others share the same view.........pls. the above comments does not aim at anyone........

I will strongly recommended the air well entrance for BH for the following reasons.
1. In air well design or the open roof design, the external sound will not be heard from the outside of the BH; therefore, no sound disturbance to the neighbors.
2. All my BHs are open roof or Air well design, I am OK. I have asked my neighbours if my tweeters disturbed them and they say that they didn't hear the sound. Maybe, they are kind to me but if your tweeters are directed toward the sky, only the birds and the fairies will be disturbed.

3. The odour and air pollution if any, will be totally disappear or very much reduced when compare with the rest types.

4. The only problem with the system is the rain, and this is rather so easy to solve as most Shops has a air well. Maybe, construction of dog kernel may mean better for the contractor/consultant as they do charge for the extra job. Open window and dog kernel type will cause disturbance to your neighbours no matter how you construct your BH, if the external tweeters not the problem, the internal tweeters do cause the problem as the sound travel from inside to outside thru the entrance but if in the case of open roof type, the sound travel to the sky.... worst if you use internal sound for the night.....I wouldn't want to stay behind your BH........nightmare.

Althought posting here will cause some unpleasant remarks, but we need to be responsible to all esp. our dear neighbours for their understandings and their support. Better be frank and honest then regret later.

Well, if agri land, any design will do if you think is right for what's the problem unless you think that the animals may protest or go crazy. Then, the decision is not mine but the Authorities.

Again, as always...above are my humble opinions to all newbiz.

Now, we talk about Eggs and swiftlets eggs that is. As far as I know AF lays 2 eggs and why one 1 or 3 lah?

My view are as follow...

1. 1 egg and stay 1 egg after a week.....congratulation cos the bird must from your neighbour because your neighbour has harvested the nest before the bird lay the second eggs and that is 2 days later and the bird is deperately seeking for a place to put the nest down and no nest is in the BH and your BH happened to have one empty nest. Maybe, the bird miscarriage and lost one hahaha

2. 3 eggs is also the same as above, no nest to put the egg so the bird just tumpang another nest. The bird can control the time to lay eggs but once the egg is ready, big and almost harden, the bird need to get rid of the nest. The bird will stop at 2 as any more than 2, the parent bird will find it very difficult to care for them. During bad time, even 1 chick may died and during good time, even 3 birds may survive.

Above, are my understanding of swiftlets breeding behavior and kindly comment................

No Cd is 100%, no aroma is 100%, no Sifu is 100% but most importance of all all newbees is to listen and learn the smart way. Never trust any consultant 100%..... If any consultant build me a BH and can promised me a thousand nests in 3 years and I am willing to pay him twice the amount for the BH or if fail, the BH is for free. Everything is thru experience and some luck. A good consultant must have many years of experience, ready to learn from others, see other's mistakes and correct own mistakes and with all the successes and failures, only one can be consider a good consultant and no university can teach you these. Everyone know the requirements and the conditions from sites and friends but is the little bit extra that you need from a consultant........

When engaging Consultant, beware of sweet talk and boosting of so many sucessful BHs that he has done and has he forget to mention the unproductive ones but if he has the trouble to further investigate and still trying to solve the puzzle, he is still OK. If he has the experiance and confidence, then half of your battle is done. Even the best design BH with the good sound may not be able to draw in birds. So many factors must be observed and some maybe overlook so be wise when engaging a consultant to do your BH......open your eyes and ears and at least you don't come out blurred.

Be Patient and Have Faith and give time. Don't be jealous and greedy ar else you end lesser than you have...a bird in hand is better than 2 in the bush (nearby BH). Remember, your neighbour has a early start and if he has a thousand birds, a thousand birds are his forever unless he make silly mistakes and you can thank God for it. Many Newbiz tend to expect quick result as the birds are free and they choose where to stay and when to make nest, we can only try to make their bed softer, their room warmer and hope that they make babies.

No offence to anyone as I am here to help all swiftlets lovers but be free to comment on my posting anytime. Please remember that I am not a consultant nor a sifi but just a fellow swiftlets lover with some experiances to share and also a very busy.....body.

West Wing is always West Wing and I swear by West Wing and if any other names, that's not me and if any comment or disagreement to my postings, please post at the forum, we all are learners and do comment on my posting but never bad mouth is all I request. I am no superman and I will only reply thru the forum and I do not have any personal site so I have only sincere intention. What I post is what I believe and maybe some do not share my views, and that's understandable as we all have our opinions. Swfitlet matters here and PM me for personal matter only like dropping by my place for a cup of coffee....fellowship.

What I posted if you think is right, take it and just ignore any posting that you think are incorrect. I post what I feel, what I think and what I believe so I am neutral and only pro swiftlets. If I did comment on any other postings, it is because that I think that it may be wrong.....so I posted my comment for other to comment and I really have not intention of creating trouble.

Sometime, we need to inform others of some swindlers, cheaters or trouble makers. we not let our friends know only bad ones but also about the good ones so that we all are safe and not to be taken for a ride. Pls. never quarrel over small matter as we, with exception of a few dirty ones are all friends.

Oyes, Kelvin, my friend and it about time that you phone me up....you promised.