(Con't from last thread)

Tirok, kindly invite your friend Harry Kok here to clear his name. You cant do that on his behalf.

Silence means consent.

If Harry continue to talk nonsense in MESYARAT JAWATATANKUASA PERANCANG NEGERI KEDAH and his blog but unable to clarify himself here, it is confirm that he Harry Kok does participate in destroying the rice bowl of swiftfarming community in the country as claimed by forumers. His 'reputation' if any left any will be gone case forever.

To Harry Kok,

World is getting smaller, you better migrate if you committed sinful slaughtering of millions of swiftlets and break the rice bowls of the whole community in the country! Similar scenario with Ms Hehe of Ipoh.

It is possible to win court case against forestry dept or state government of Sarawak if all parties willing to pull in resources ie $$.

Heard so many cases where the white hair robbing land from poor souls. Understand from sarawak friend that there was a case in Bintulu hotel/residence project where white hair connected company finally has to pay compensation after losing court battle for acquiring land thru force. But it dragged on for some time.

Swiftlet farmers are not robbers or thiefs and people are willing to comply to guidelines set in the past and government also always been supportive eg Housing Minister Ong Ka Chuan annouced it is legal to use shophouses for farming so they cannot impose overnight change which will affect rice bowls of so many poor souls and bankcrupt many except for few early birds who already made their retirement fund. So if want to fight lets go to court and fight till cow comes home.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Feb 18 2009, 06:57 PM

Thanks for enlightenment Lucas1!

President of Awesome Swiftlet Farming aka Harry Kok in fact trying to mislead Jabatan Perancangan Bandar dan Desa Negeri Kedah with the proposal to swift all swiftlet farms with the Cadangan Pemindahan Petempatan proposal. Many thanks to proactive team who shot down the proposal even before the start of the important mesyuarat.

3 days already passed and he still remains silent so conclusion Silence mean Consent.

Give up on him lah. You cant teach the old dog to walk straight. Enough bashing lah guys. Lets not waste time and energy on this Harry chap. Lets focus on how to tackle many problems/headaches in the industry. Lets assist the authorities/councils in order to assist us.

We must not deny the industry contributes many problems cause by few bad hats eg noise pollution, ugly facade, illegal extensions(without certification by structural engineer), unpainted building, internal hygiene etc. How to solve these problems and make everyone co-orporate so that swiftlet farms can integrate into the towns/kampungs without affecting the comfort of residents. Without the need to swift the town or swift the farms out of the towns? Lets help town councils to tackle the problems so that we can sleep well at night by contributing ideas in the forum.

Times are bad, lets work together.

Ben,

Are sarawak farmers bring the case to court to buy time? Court case ... 3-5 yrs? Better than 2 yrs grace period.

Understand if someone occupied your land without permission for many years and if you want them to move out you cant just tear down their house. If go to court also need 3-5 yrs before case can settle. That is law. Unless someone says no law in Sarawak, only white hair law aka law of the jungle!

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Feb 20 2009, 03:50 PM

The proposed Kedah Guideline is seriously contradictory to the Garisan Panduan Permohoman Lesen Premis 2005 issued by Jabatan Kerajaan Tempat.

Noted Clause 3.0.f of 2005 guideline stated 'dari segi kegunaan bangunan, ianya hendaklah dari jenis komersil.

How can they say it is 'haram'?! Instead of 'haram' or 'tidak berlesen' (correction from my last post), should change it to 'belum mendapat lesen' as many have tried to apply but yet pending for whatever bureaucratic reason.

Because of 2005 guideline, many have invested some their whole life saving into commercial buildings to build swiftlet farm around the country. You are talking about billions of ringgit being spent for the last 5 yrs. Kedah state government cannot just draft a totally new clause without referring to the old one as billions of ringgit will be wiped out of the country if they are not careful causing bankruptcy and the result bad loans to the local banks. Are they trying to start a credit crisis in the country? Not forgetting town councils will lose future revenue from assessment and licensing fees.

They should acknowledge swiftlet industry has caused a housing boom in the country and sustain the local economy even during recession. Consider a high risky industry talking about 70-80% failure (West Coast)people still willing to folk out their hard earned money to invest. We are talking about private investment of billions of ringgit pouring into the market creating thousands of job from contractors, suppliers, to cleaners and exporters. Imagine telling Kedah government to spend billions of ringgits to employ thousands of Kedah residents with the risk of 70-80% failure rate. Are they willing to do that before they issued any new guidelines to close down all farms?! Knock some sense out of their heads.

All this while, the federal government has been very supportive of this industry and allowing farming at commercial lots. Even DPM also giving green light. May be Kedah Government start losing their head after winning last election, drafting such bias and distorted guidelines. Understand housing developers also getting hell lot of noise few months back due to some stupid policy they trying to implement.

Referring to the clause " jarak antara dinding premis burung wallet dengan dinding bangunan kemudahan awam " tidak kurang daripada 50 meter.

Agree, should delete this clause. So what even 100m meter away if one ******* turn on full blast it will be worst than a more considerate farmer 6m away tuning the sound and adjust the speakers properly. Distance be it 6m or 50m does not make much different.

40dba is very very low, equivalent to a close door aircon room, ask whoever draft this clause go check with any architect or building specs. Even external noise contribute from the traffic already more than 50dba. Unless they consider filtering external noise recording only BH sound may be this clause still can make some sense.

Proposed guideline probably should look into how to treat vent pipes to make building aesthetically more acceptable for town planning, double wall, dark windows etc.

Also should add condition stating that new guideline only for as guide not a bible. Even building by-law if you cannot comply to certain clause, there are still ways or rules to play in order to make it comply. By-law not no hard and fast rule. Eg your vent holes not acceptable, then make some windows to make it aesthetically acceptable rather than just say NO vent pipes for all BHs etc ...

WHO recommendation 55db during the day, 45db during the night. Understand Minister of Env also got set of code on sound level to be complied by factories near residential area, if not mistaken 60db during day, 45db during night.

Met a sound consultant many yrs ago. Understand when you measure sound level you need to filter out the ambient noise. There is a set of formulae to calculate the actual sound level deducting the ambient noise.

40db stipulated in the guideline is actually a clause that no one can meet even without BH around. Ambient noise already above 40db unless you are in a room with door close may be below 40db. Ayam berkokok already more than 40db so how?

They should stipulate noise from BH cannot be say 5db more than ambient by measuring before turn on and after turn on sound, measuring say may be 50 meter radius instead of stipulating building cannot be less building cannot be 50m away. Different requirement sound level during day and night to be complied referring to local Env or WHO code and not just pluck 40db from the sky.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Feb 27 2009, 01:37 PM

Now recall calculation is based on log10, not so straight forword 1+1=2.

So as per Engineer Lee just highlighted, clause should state during day sound level must not be above 55db or 3db above ambient noise level in the event ambient exceed 55db. During night 45db is more reasonable in compliance with WHO recommendation, or super kiasu then call for 40db. Snoring noise also break 40db already.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Feb 27 2009, 03:56 PM

Quote from what Skynest said:-

Consultant
Post 585
Just to share my years experiences in swiftlet farming, i think i can categorise all so called consultant in this industry as follow :-

1) Those who owned a successful farm, acctually most of the time owned by their relatives or their parents who had asked our indonesian sifu to design the farm and been operation for more than 20 years. As this type of consultant will be most famous as people think that it is his skill that make the farm so successful. This consultant skill level normally only about 60%.
Their success rate is about 50%.

2) Those who had only few years experience whereby he had asked another consultant to design his house. From there, he used that farm house as show unit and show it to potential client. This type of consultant
skill level normally only about 50%.Their success rate is about 10%

3) Those who do not even owned a farm house but had visited his friend
farm house and by looking at the design, he just copy it 100% and started his consultation business. This type of consultant skill level normally only about 30%. Their success rate is about 0%

4) Those who had few farms and had done many farm houses for many people and had honed the skill of swiftlet farming mostly by trial and error.
This type of consultant skill level normally only about 80%. Their success rate is about 50%.

If you do read it carefully, the success rate of their consultation work max
is only 50% !!!! and the more consultation he did, the lower the rate!!!.

Do you still want to look for a consultant to do your work.... of course you do... at least you have 50% chances of success rate.

Can you depend totally to consultant, NO, you need to put in effort for the remaining 50%. This includes daily monitoring of your birds population (if possible), weekly check on your equipments, sd players (if possible), any predators inside your farm house, external sound attractive or not.....
This part is the only important thing that will ensure your farm will succeed or not.

This post has been edited by Skynest : Nov 1 2007, 10:29 PM



Conclusion:- No one can guarantee 100%. Most successful farmers also dont own 100% successful BHs, if got 50% BHs successful also very good already.

As long as consultant did his job ie you pay $100 he gave you $100 products then fair is fair no one should blame him and all depend on mother nature whether birds wanna to coorporate. No choice spend bit more to get 2nd opinion see any mistakes etc.

But do highlight irresponsible con-sultants who charged you to the nose, gave you lousy plank/amp/cable/tweeters and use your house as experiment. Selling E-files cost $50 on the net but worth less than $5 where you can spend the same on good books. Banker turn consultant who told your to do a concrete ceiling of 1ft thick if got money to provide good insulation while you can install zink roof with thinner concrete ceiling to do the same or better function.

This is scary and should let all newbies know.

Swiftlet farming is like fisherman story.

There are good tekong (captain) and bad tekong.

Good tekongs are experienced, responsible, know where the good spots, provide fresh baits, very alert to change of weather and surrounding(pirates), no nonsense (can get F) especially to newbies whom sometimes who do thing that not suppose to do in the middle of ocean that can be harmful to others, do not guarantee you catch fish. Go tell and fishing kakis or tekongs I want guarantee I got MONEY, they will tell you go market, dont fish!

Bad tekongs are those who charged you exorbitant till left skaleton, tell all success stories promise heaven and earth but give lousy baits and food, tell things that you want to hear, hide things that nobody want to know, black become white, white become black, sleep when he should be awake, hack care whether you catch fish as long as you pay up,can talk till bird walk down from tree; fish jump into boat, bring his friends along without charge, parked at good spot for themselves, after getting all the good fishes sell them back to you as the boat position favour to them. Only thing in their mind is profit, profit and more profit. Customers are suckers.

Do you want a tekong who teach you how to fish, or a tekong that only sweet talk and make you a sucker end of the day?

If the tekong can give you good advise, teach you how to fish, tell you do and dont, can guarantee fishes no problem biting bait (bird flying path unblock, can attract bird to stay and nest), it is considering very good. Each tekong got their own kungfu, nobody knows everything.

Go ask any PHD swiftlet professor he also wouldnt know everything. If you know any sifu that can guarantee 1kg 100% money back within 2 yrs in West coast hotspot, do let us know. Many will be willing to pay double or triple. Thks.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Mar 4 2009, 03:44 PM

Good suggestion by WW.

Personally dont fancy those who own 100 bhs driving big cars. So what, many dont even bother about giving back to society. Look up to those generous at heart even own only 1 bh. Zero respect especially to our rich politicians.

IMO the main problem still be waterproofing. How many waterproofing vendors out there can guarantee more than 10 yr no leaking? Even that how are you going to solve waterproofing problem thereafter?

Sometimes, cheap and good still best option compare to complicated and problematic option.

So what my sifu said is correct, correct, correct.

No corner = 1 corner nest

Corner = 2 corner nest

So what do you want?

Heard quite a few Malaysians gave up their citizenship recently, quite a number across the causeway, from close ones to friends and relatives. Few docs friends pack their bags to find a greener pasture last yr.

What to expect, to put food on table also got harassed, to earn an honest living and sponsor children education also got destroyed, to follow rules and regulation/black and white also kena force to go under table. Special treatment from baby to school to jobless graduate to early retirement also need sponsor.

Prepare your sons and daughters to be global citizens, forget about the corrupted regime, the future generation will survive any where. Let the corrupts rot in the rotten state.

Nothing is permanent. No Bh is permanent. Even our life is not permanent. Our ancestors have proven their success, we might have to do it again if things got worst with continual threat and harassment. Economy will collapse if one by one pack the bag and say good bye.

May be they prefer this place to be like Indo or worst Afican in future.

Sorry no offence to any one related directly or indirectly. The message is directly aim at the head. No one else in the forum.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Mar 25 2009, 09:38 AM

3 yrs just nice ie 2012 ie 13th GE.

Which party try to be funny will get kick out before the birds.

To add benefit of town BH compare to ecopark:-

i. Risk factor ie risk vs investment. a) Ecopark high risk as building cannot convert for other purposes if bird refuse to stay. Farming animals are forced to stay. Swiftlets free to come and go. b) Ecopark high risk as income generation probably 2-3 after investment. Town BH ground floor can be rented out to cover cost. c) Ecopark eg average 50 units side by side, by statistic swiftlet/50 but in real world probably more birds going to enter few houses say 1/5 sucess, so 4/5 say bye-bye to investment.

ii. Security problem. Ecopark away from town, with guards also post problem, can be tied up in the middle of night.

iii. Ecopark no different from normal shop house. If they are so afraid of disease, by right ecopark should be located say 30km from civilisation in the jungle, so post problem i & ii again. But the fact is swiftlets have been staying in town, exist all the while way before this industry was discovered, so why suddenly they are panicking? Why are they not afraid of diseases from cats and dogs at home? Domestic animals are the worst as they in contact with human. Swiftlets only stay above the sky never hang on cable or mix with other species.

iv. Other normal complaint eg sound / aestatic can be solved by associations and enforcement.

Ben,

That's the best Aelodamus Fujifungus story we ever heard in the forum though there are many AF stories told by Hungry Cook! Everyday is AF in the blog.


On a more serious note, congrats to LGE in Penang for identifying and eradicting hardcore poor in the state. Quoted in The Sun saying many philanthropists stepped forward to help. May be associations can emulate the same since this is God given.

Our upcoming new PM many times also mentioned about AF since he is from Pekan. Hope to see some light at the end of tunnel to have a new PM who will be supportive of the industry.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Apr 1 2009, 01:28 PM

Sounds like many are sufferring from swiftlet hallucination, can visualise swiftlet flying around the top of the head ... hehe.

Anyway, for discussion sake just throw some pointer. Farmers and traders should consider develop more cottage industry in towns by engaging local town folks for bird nest cleaning.

Penny wise china man mentality business men may say you newbies what you know. Indo and china labour cost cheaper. In order to reap quick profit dont waste time just export raw nest. If that the case we are always at the mercy of china to dictate the price as raw nest so easily available.

But come to think of it, if more town folks ie retired old folks, unemployed, housewives, hardcore poors, partimers etc can get involved as cleaners, this will create a new cottage industry in the country. Not just nest farming but cottage industry that involve process, packaging and exporting. More people will be benefitted not just farmers. In that sense, government before they implement any new law have to think of the implication not just to the farmers but those downstream cottage industries will be affected too. In short, try to employ locals rather than indos though cheaper. In the long run, even town folks will fight for farmers for their own survival as cleaners etc.

If all farmers only care for they own profit like some who blast their sound like no tomorrow, some day all will be affected. Like it or not.

---

Added on April 8, 2009, 6:14 pmWe already given them 51 yrs. Another 3 yrs are not that long. Just see whether the new PM will walk his talk or only talk while he walk. If they want us to sink, we will sink together with them.


This post has been edited by Bobby C: Apr 8 2009, 06:14 PM

Bureaucratic red tapes in the administration.

From farming to harvesting to cooking to eating also facing ass. Next time go toilet pang sai also kena harass.

http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=32343

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Apr 16 2009, 01:29 PM

Rokok & Arak not haram. But bird nest is HARAM!

Robbing and destroying BHs in Mukah is not haram but apply license is considered Haram because you will never get.

Ben, please recommend the best mental hospital for the bunch of crooks from hutan. Thks.

This post has been edited by Bobby C: Apr 16 2009, 05:03 PM