I have this dream, a dream to make my whole town buildings all BHs or at least, my part of town totally Swiftlets' sanctuary. If it is successfully, then we should have no problem with our neighbours or the authorities because even the Majilis has BHs, too.

At least, in my area, there are more BHs than none BHs and I hope it will expand to all so all @ town can share GOD's wealth.

Well, that's a dream, my own beautiful dream. HAHAHAHA

Only if the authorities have their own Birdhouses, only then they understand our feelings and cos you have to be there to feel. To feel LOVE, you must be in love...........Talking and explaining will be the most difficult job to do and that's why I admire our friends trying to convince the authorities that we are the good guys and we are on the people's side.

I bet you on if anyone who disagree with BHs in town and if you get him to be involved in BH buz, soon, he will fall in LOVE with the swiftlets........and then you have another friend. Why so selfish, support all newbiz and encourage others to be in the buz.

The market is too big and so big even if all Malaysian are involve in the industry, we still have good harvest and good market unless, China starts to have their own BHs, then we are in trouble...........just my own opinion on how to solve the present situation once and for all. Talk talk only and no offence, I believe.

Just let me give you some information or reasons for starting a BH.
1. To me, this is the best investment as you never lose but gain and as in any investment, you may not gain or your gain may not be as much aa the others. When you are successful, you may get back your investment in 5 years and still have all property worth sometime over 3 times the investment. Even if you fail and wish to give up, you sitlll get back what you invested as other esp. fellow successful investors will buy cos they know where you fail or at least they think they do and they are not sharing because one person lose is another one gain....seem selfish but lit normal as in any type of venture.

2. Let me give an example, a friend bought a BH at over 1.5 M and he has been harvesting the nests for a few years and he is already almost getting hie investment back but that is not the jack pot, someone just offer his BH for a cool Rm4M....where on earth can you get these return and this security of return.......it id just like hand you win, tail don't lose.

3. How much, these all depend on how you are going to do it and let give another example, a friend only has a room for the birds and he is successful and is harvesting over few Kgs every harvest. Not all investers are successful, some are slow, some are fail, too but as I mentioned, even if you fail, you don't lose....just you don't gain. Never listen to sweet talks by those sweet tslking salesmen (CON) and just listen to yourslef and honest friends Who are the honest friends....that's the question??????????????? see, I have a marking " H" on my forehead and "H" for honesty...hahahahaha

Illegal Harboring of Protected species and that's a new words for me.....providing sanctuary and protecting of protected species is an offence?

First time in the world that you can be charge for harboring or providing a sanctuary for any kind of protected species and not to mentioned that swiftlets are not totally protected species. This time Sarawah Forestry Dept surely boleh!!!!!

All this time, I thought that you can only be charge in court for harming, killing or destroying protect species areas but never because you provide them shelter or protection or a place to breed. All these killings and destroyings, the Sarawah Forestry Dept have done them all and should be charge in Court and there are clear evidences.

As Malay used to say" Ini pun boleh!"

A test run will be appropriate and if have a vacant land, it will not cost you much unless you are going for the Guinness world of record just like some guys building BHs so big that sooner or later 747 jet can land on the roof.

Have little money, do it on a small scale and reinvest when you get your money from the sales of birdnests...........slow but steady but never borrow from ALONG or your BH will very soon end up as ALONG's BH. Believe me for you keep on waiting, you will never build your palace of fortune (BH).

Presently BH owners shouldn't be afraid or selfish that if someone build a BH near your BH, that's good because only during the first year, you share your birds with him but after that, he will be a contributor of bird to your already overcrowded BH. Think positive, and you will be be happy and live to a hundred or more and obviously must with daily supplement of birdnest. No point of raising your Amps each time a new BH set up in your area......and all the other BH joinging in later and what's happen to the rest of your neighbour....sakit kepala, lama lama jadi gila.

Taking about jadi gila.....few months ago, I went to see a specialist as I hear voices each time I tried to sleep. Paid over Rm300 and 2 hours to be told that I am OK with my ears.....thinking of it back now, it's my brain replaying the swiftlets sounds from the neighborhoods. Cannot make a fuss as I am also in the trade although I don't even put a AMP in my BH..... complaint to MPK and maybe my BH also kena.

From what my past observation, they just love winged adult termites...........each time you see winged adult termites flying out, hundreds of swiftlets just go crazy..........maybe, we shall try termite for food, and possible that's health food for us, too!

Other winged insects, too like flying ants, mosquitoes...................and they basically eat any small insects and I have seen them zooming over rubbish dump for houseflies during the very dry season when flying insects like mosquitoes are scarce.

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Added on April 26, 2009, 7:02 pmJust say that it is more safer to go by KLIA than by Terminal 3 as the KLIA passengers also consist of VVIPs and the super rich which that SOAB department normal avoid creating trouble while T3 are all low fares paying passengers.......when do you find our VIPs or the influential people using the T3 except maybe, the CEO of AirAsia because his FOC passes has been terminated by MAS.


Anyway, that just a suggestion.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 26 2009, 07:02 PM

Let discuss on the topic, well as far as I know ( after this, the Perhilitan will know)

1. Custom and Perhilitan don't mixed unless they take the trouble to send guy to the custom department.
2. There is no custom duty on export on Birdnest.
3. I have been to HK and I saw Birdnests sent to a shop there and they were just pouring out the nests. The boss there told us that the shipment was from Malaysia and that I can send him the nests thru ****** courier company and it was safe then and most of his Malaysian sellers did.....


The above are just for general knowledge and discussion and what's yeaterday may not be the same as Today for Tomorrow, we cannot see....so, you better think first before doing anything.......Just to be safe, did what my friend did........I cannot post it here for if I did, the method cannot be use anymore.

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Added on April 27, 2009, 8:37 pmDear Friend, me no SIFU but a true friend for all swiftlets sanctuaries providers and I am glad that you have faith in me...........then I will just do what I always did. I will just tell you what I think and let you decide if I am right or wrong.

1. V-holes. All depend on where your BH is situated and if your area is very windly and cool, then never use any V-holes but do build V-holes for future usage when you have thousands birds. If you have many V-holes, close them up and maybe, keep few to prevent conjestion of air.
2. Why????? because if estate land, you have too much wind esp. at night and the wind will cause the birds to be unstable and they will not build nest unless they feel right. Another thing, the inside will be too cold for the birds and remember your ABC of swiftlet, they like warm and if not, their chicks cannot survive in cold so are their eggs going bad.....what's mother swiftlets will make home in BH unsuitable for their offsprings. instinctively, they will fly away the next morning hunting for new home.

3. Coming to why we build BH to keep heat out but they also serve to keep heat in. Warm and a little wetness is always the best. And for that, we come the the entrance and why it is built the way it should. I believe that I have explain more than required.....so I rest.

Any disagreement or comments on my few sen knowledge, please kindly post....I like to learn, too.

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Added on April 27, 2009, 8:39 pmDear Friend, me no SIFU but a true friend for all swiftlets sanctuaries providers and I am glad that you have faith in me...........then I will just do what I always did. I will just tell you what I think and let you decide if I am right or wrong.

1. V-holes. All depend on where your BH is situated and if your area is very windly and cool, then never use any V-holes but do build V-holes for future usage when you have thousands birds. If you have many V-holes, close them up and maybe, keep few to prevent conjestion of air.
2. Why????? because if estate land, you have too much wind esp. at night and the wind will cause the birds to be unstable and they will not build nest unless they feel right. Another thing, the inside will be too cold for the birds and remember your ABC of swiftlet, they like warm and if not, their chicks cannot survive in cold so are their eggs going bad.....what's mother swiftlets will make home in BH unsuitable for their offsprings. instinctively, they will fly away the next morning hunting for new home.

3. Coming to why we build BH to keep heat out but they also serve to keep heat in. Warm and a little wetness is always the best. And for that, we come the the entrance and why it is built the way it should. I believe that I have explain more than required.....so I rest.

Any disagreement or comments on my few sen knowledge, please kindly post....I like to learn, too.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 27 2009, 08:39 PM

As I believe in sharing all infos and for that the following has been PM to me, hope other seasoned ranchers may want to asist our friends.

Hmm ask u some opinion, beside the temperature, huminity, ext & int sound, aroma, roving area, entry hole, LAL, Predator; wat do u think other factors will encourage the bird to come and stay. As i just started my bh, i would see what major things if i miss out. Thanks in advance west wing.....................

I shall provide my share of views on the matter.
1. To build a home, one must have safety and comfort like wind disturbances as I have provided at forum.
2.Remember that too much of anything is bad same like us human, taking too much of Vits or health are bad. I always like to think from the point of the birds to get where and what I want so that whatever I do, I believe that the birds will like them but sometime, I maybe wrong but most of the time I am right.
3. Time are important and alot of newbizs are expecting too much or too fast and please never compare with other faster or better BHs and by doing so, it will weaken the very fundamental and wealth that you already have. Be contented and be patient. When you need to compare, do also compare with the unsuccessful ones and you will find that you are OK.
4. I have a friend who are always uncontented with what he has and he end up only 50 nests after two years and he already has the 50 nest from the first 6 months. Why.....he wasn't happy with the performances of his BH when compare to mine having 200 nests........and he keep on doing renovation and renovation and that hurt his BH growth.
5. After 2 years, mine having over 800nests and his still 50 nests and his BH is next to mine. Now, he has given up hope and he did nothing, now, his BH show improvement and nest are increasing without any modification to his BH.
6. Also, Luck play very important part as we do not really know why a sudden jump in the increment of nests and we can only assume that to be the truth.
Another case history, my nearby very successful BH did modifications on his BH and they took over 4 months to complete and during this period, my BH population increased 100% so that why I tell you never do anything when the good are coming, let it ride. Do the same in Genting and you will make alot of monies.
After saying these, I always emphasized that never do any modification when your BH show inprovement and never compare with your fellow BHs.

Oyes! forgotten about your VHs in your BH in town........keep them open if it is not windy and if you are not using humidifiers, you need to constantly wet the floor as the wetness of the air in the building interior help to keep in the right condition for swiftlets to breed.

Above all are my personal suggestions and any comments are surely welcome.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 28 2009, 01:01 PM

........why use wooden house in the first place unless you already have one at present and wish to save cost. Not that wooden building do not attract swiflet but then, for other reasons and factors, the brick ones beat the wooden building many times more.

As for environment also, wooden building create more problem, like the wetness will destroy the building, insects will make home and fungus will grow and so will diseases......all no, no and no except, if you have one old grandfather building, the old wooden beams are the better place for the swiftlets to make home. I have seen one old wooden house in Pekan, Pahang and you practically can jump and catch a bird or two.

Building a BH in an agriculture land is already helping the environment as you are producing natural fertilizer and the birds are controlling the harmful pests. Your BH is a land saving/eco friendly industry that producing many many times profits more than any industries or estate of the same sizes.

Above are my own comments only.

I feel I need to explain to you again and I will feel sad if you said that you will build a brick building after your wooden BH become successful. As we mentioned before that you move, the birds don't..............After the birds have decided to make their home at a certain location, it is rather very difficult to move them to another location even next block. That's the reason that one BH has thousands of nests and the next block has hundreds only.
And also for that reason, the value f BH depend on the numbers of nests as the buyers are sure that the birds will return.

Build a smaller BH and expand sideway later but not a wooden house, then a brick Building next time and you will regret later that your friendly thieves pay more visit to your BH than you do. Each time, your T friends clean up everything and that will hurt your BH development and you may end up so desperated that you will try to out do the thieves and harvest all before the thieves come.

I didn't even mention the problems with rats and his pest friends....I willl like to imagine how you are going to cope with the problems. Even the brick ones isn't spare of the problem but at least, they can be easier manage than the wooden BH.

If for me, I rather take a bank loan to build my secured BH and since that Bank interest is low. The above are my humble suggests and comments on the matter and the decision is obviously your's but I just can't keep my big mouth shut because I do like you to be successful and I mean you well........maybe, the experts around here can give your their opinions and I maybe not right but at least, I do concern for a fellow rancher. Above are only friendly suggestions and pls don't misinterpret.

Maybe I am getting old but since someone mentioned Aroma and before I forget, Let's talk alittle of aroma esp for those BH already has birds but want to have more: who doesn't!!!!

My suggestion is that never spray directly to the planks cos if you find them unsuitable and worse if having negative effect on the birds.....habislah, what to do, nasi sudah jadai bubur. Try cleaning up the plank, too wet and fungus maybe and maybe cannot removing the unforgiven error on your part to believe the so called consultant or sifu.

What to do is rather very simple, just use a few planks of about six feets and spray the aroma on one side only. Screw the planks on to the BH;s planks that you want to spray initially. This way, if you happened to misfired, you at least can withdraw the bullet any time by removing the planks and no harm done to the BH. The smell will be disappear in a day or two the most.

That's my suggestion only and will post other pointers as soon as I remember them......getting forgetful these days but looking rather young and healthy because taking birdnests everyday. Birdnest no good for the brain.

Wise Words of the day " A nest a day keep the Doctor away"

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Added on April 30, 2009, 12:12 pmCase history and I always like to talk about past experiances.
Once, a friend read a blog and ask me to help to buy Aroma from **** and I did buy for him but then, shamefully telling, I stole a little out of the 4 L container as tax. I applied to a corner about 6 by 6 and what do you know, it is the only area that has only one nest; the one there before I applied the Aroma and ther rest is.....cannot tell lah.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Apr 30 2009, 12:12 PM

Bad news.........be careful...the Break In gang is now in the state of Terengganu and they have cleaned up some BHs in Kuantan and in Dungun so I heard.

These thieves came well prepared and they have the necessary equipments to cut your pad lock even the inside padlock with gas cutter. As I have told you that the town cannot even protect the BHs well and what about the out of town ones......Right now, they are not interested with the out of town BHs because there are not worth their effort to break in.......sooner or later, they will. BHs owners may have to stay with the birds so as to protect their precious commodities.

My suggestion is to build a few BHs together if out of town for safety and other reasons plus more enjoyable fellowship in the middle of no where.

Town BHs owners......Please take preventive action and phone up fellow members if needed in order to help to kill a rat or two..... oppp.....I mean, break a leg or two.... oppps..I mean phone the Police and stand guard to prevent their escape until the cops arrived and that may take some time.

For goodness sake, don't buy nest from thieves and if your friends or buyers are doing so, tell them off and inform all BHs owners to boycott them.........for they are the our worst enemy.....when the buying stop, we hope the stealing will stop, too.

To build a building these days is getting rather difficult as the parking requirements can really prevent you for making one.

1. I don't know about other places but here we require a parking lot for every 500 sq meters and for a 20 by 70 x 3F, you at least need 9 parking lots .....and you only can buy 30% of the lots. Balance? you need to provide and how to provide if you only have land enough for a building and maybe an area enough for 2 parking lot. Even if you have the 70%, the balance lot costs Rm10K per lot..........

Alternatively, you can use the ground floor for parking and even then, you still need to pay for the balance of the parking lots if you meet the 70%...........udang udang baru apa!!!!!!

So, if you are planing to buy a piece of land in town and if the majlis is following the new guidelines, don't buy cos you can't build the building unless you have land nearby to surrender to the authorities for parking........cos we are facing this problem here and my friends have been appealing unsuccessfully for almost a year..... so, beware and if still no enforcement of the new rule at your area, better submit the plan for approval cos any delay will prevent you from doing one..............

It is like this, the Fed Gov has passed this crazy Law long ago and it's up to your local government whether to adopt it now or later and sfrom what I heard, only Petaling Jaya and Kemaman,Terengganu have adopted the new Law....with that most of the new application here kena tolak.
New Act requirement of 1 parking per 500 sq m and one must able to provide 70%, balance can be purchase.

Better submit it now if you are planing to build one or regret later when the Majlis implement the new act.

Hope the following do help if the local authorities do pay you a visit for the approval for BH license.

Few months ago, I was late for one of these visits in Pekan and I asked my staff to open the door for the inspection, little did I know that problem start with my unpunctuality. When I arrived, they have finished with my BH and I received a call from the Association President that my BH failed in the inspection and I wasn't happy and was advised to go to see the officer in charged who iwas still checking BHs a few block away.

The reason for failing my BH are
1. Two outside tweeters are not facing the sky. I argued that the tweeters are not even connected to any wire and that I wasn't using any external sound at all. He wasn't even listening.
2. I have a pool with alot of plants and fishes in it and under the regulations, that's not allowed. My argument that the pool is not in the BH and there are alot of fishes in the pool fell on deaf ears.

What I am trying to tell you to be prepared for such things and never take thing for granted that they will understand cos sometime, I think that some of those officers doing the inspection don't really know what they are doing or expecting and they can't be bother to entertain your reasoning or explanation. Try to keep your BH dry ( no water) and clean when they come for inspection and never give them any excuses to fail you.........lest you face the same situation like me and to face a second inspection if they care.

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Added on May 10, 2009, 10:38 pmTSLSLKTS

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Dear West Wing,

Recently reading all your posts. Humble and proud, humour and true.

Hoping to receive your advices on the birds behaviour through your years of experience.

1. Many birds visited my new BH every day (about less than 100) , even at very hot weather these few days, while a lot people said all birds went missing. They come early in the morning from 7 till 12pm. Then stop till 3 pm and play till 6pm. A few started staying, but observed from CCTV they keep changing place to rest.

2. As we observed from CCTV, ever since we stop entering the farm for about 1 mth, the birds visited my BH started to increase. They keep playing in and out, but not staying. My consultant said they are checking and observing my BH till they decide to stay. It takes time. What do you think? From your years of experience, how long it takes for them to make decision? blush.gif

3. Last time I did apply N**T aroma. It works for a weeks. The amt of birds reduced later then. We stop entering the farm, they started to time to visit. A good sign? Now dare not go in to the farm, although some successful farmes encourage me to enter the farm to apply aroma. What do you think?

Thank you in advance.

So sorry that I didn't read your new posting and you should have inform us here that you have started a new forum on swiftlets....I don't know others but anything about the goodness of swiftlet make happy and proud to be a part of its happening....

I am no Sifu but will share all I know about your problem above and hope that you don't mind that I bring it here to share with all @ forum.

When the birds oay you the visit and that's because your external sound is good and they are very curious and will enter to examine the area. But alas. your interior is not suitable or comfortable and so they are not staying and I disagree with your consultant on this, sorry Mr. Consultant.

Having the birds already curious, it time to make them stay and remember that today guest birds may not be the same batch of visiting birds visiting your BH tomorrow. Usually, new birds will come and new make nest but occasionally other adult birds do, too when you are lucky cos your neighbouring BHs have created situation so unfortunate and irresponsible.
Your question on how long does it take for them to want to stay, this is a impossible question to answer as it all depend on your BH environment and conditions......sometime it take just 2 weeks and they start making nests and sometime much much longer.

One thing for certain, if alot of birds entering your BH is a good sign but if they all left after awhile then it time for you to think what went wrong in you BH and modify them and maybe now, ou need to change your sound to attract them again to come to see your new setup or show room.....maybe this time you are lucky and if not next time perhap.....hope this time you be lucky my friend and hope to hear good news from you......

Another thing, all above are my own comments and suggestions and please do comment and others may not feel the same as I do......


This post has been edited by West Wing: May 10 2009, 10:38 PM

Q1. I believe that they mean once they start the registration of BHs in town. This have been enforce already in some town. They may have some reasons for doing so as to prevent the whole town going swiftlets and town look more like a swifltet paradise but then they should have given exception for shop lots not occupied or cannot be rented out or too far away......just my suggestion.
Q2. All BH after the registration of BHs should be away from town.......a compromise situation and may not sound fair to the supposed late comer in town. What the authorities are telling that enough is enough for the authorities have accept the Pro Town BHs' argument that many billions of ringgit will be lost if they force the swiftlet BH to move and many people will go bankrupt if the authorities insist to force the BHs out of towns. Not to mentioned the country's lost of hugh income.
Q3. This is not luck nor privilege but just that the authorities is listening and willing to accept the argument and reasoning. It is just like the present BHs are under the chopping block and have been pardon but no more, any new one will be chop, chop and chop.......... The whole thing may again be different and again another danger coming, who know. My new incoming BHs may have to go with the new ruling but at least my old ones are safe, I hope.
Q4. All BHs must comply with the guidelines and that why the Association is mentioned here.
Q5. Very dangerous and I hope that I am wrong...... if they are telling you only to join the "ONE" swiftlet association and ....creating a Monopoly type of Association and the "ONE" may determine whether you can stay or not; now and in the future. I hope that I am wrong here.

The above are my own humble thinking and believe of what have transpired and may not be the truth ...... sanyone with the real and truthful Answers do please answer our friend, Eng. Lee 5 questions....

"
According to my 5 cents ability, you are in a good location and as usual, the birds are curious of the new BH. If the birds do fly in and play in the unfinished BH in the later of the day. Congratulation, you are expecting babies unless you have a miscarriage" say Dr. West Wing. Having good sound to attract birds which must be require for BH which want to attract the attention of the birds which are by nature curious animal.
Once they like your place, nothing can prevent them from entering and even shutting the window will see them knocking at the window.

Hope you find the bird playing in the unfinished Bh as a few of my friends have such good luck and now they are either having thousands and one just started 6 months and having about 40 nests.

Above are my believe and may not be the same as others. Please share your view on the matter as you see it.......

I thought all these while that the authorities never allow BH over 5 stories high. Maybe, I am wrong and hope that I am wrong cos....I will just need one such BH and I can live happily ever after. Wau...the entrance should be at least 10 by 20 to cater for such a big traffic of birds and maybe need traffic light to ensure no accident...ha.hahahaha


About the new guidelines, we will have to wait to see if there will be no changes and we can't tell as it may be another guidelines and another.....takut nanti sakit jantung.. As chinese saying, "KUAN" word has 2 mouths and we could only pray for goodness and kindness and hope that our brothers could stand up and defend the industry.

Illegal extension need to be very careful as one of our friend here got a letter from the authorities to demolished the extension of another floor without the approval within 2 weeks from the notice. Don't know what will happen as the owners will need to discuss the matter with the authorities. All the Association can do is wait and see......and cannot interfere as it has nothing to do with Swiftlets ranching/sanctuary.

Failure to comply can be fine up to 100K and Rm1K per day then after..........therefore the safest way is not to make any external modification to your town BHs. What's cannot be seen, cannot be taken action against.....no proof. All will be safe until the authorities want to issue licenses for BH, then they will need to enter to inspect your BHs to process your application.

That's my opinion.....

This post has been edited by West Wing: May 14 2009, 04:58 PM

In any BHs areas, it shall be very easy to atart an Association and it is just that no one want to take the initiative to start one. Like our Association, we started off with 30 members and one year later, we have over a hundred. Congratulation to Dungun, Dungun just started one and I believe as we talk, more localized Associations have been formed and membership will increase like the birdnests......... one BH Association for each town to cater for local problem and to join the federal Association to show support but just one most importance thing is that we all must stand united

Every BH owner will join as all are afraid and feel lost of direction plus just don't know what to do....waiting for someone to take the lead.......oh yes, it only tke 7 to kick off.....