From report and information that I gather.......from 8 to 15 years. Experience don't tell me how long they can live cos' they just drop from the sky and die, somewhere in the forest and that's the reason that they can't carry any bird flu; they never get contact with the ground to get the flu viruses.......unless human being hand feed them and thus, transferring the diseases to the birds. I always warned them that we should never hand feed the free birds until they grow too fat to fly with our designer's genetically manufactured food, antibiotic and steroid to produce nest that may weight half a kilo each, hahahaha.

Yeah, TSS and many buyers are asking for nests as there seem to be a shortage of nests and they are offering higher and higher price for nests but I am not blind by the money to throw eggs and chicks for the sake of getting more money!!! Not Rm5K or even 10K per kilo.. Let the buyers wait for the ripe time to collect only when the birds fledged.

If the price is right, maybe I can help in securing nests for them from my friends and I don't ask friends on how they have their nests now cos' I have been thru talking and preaching the good and kind husbandry method of swiftlets ranching many times.

Interesting point there? Some friends suggested shifting of eggs to a fake nest or putting extra eggs to the other nests; I don't believe in either ways will work......

Just to share some experiences, I not only not harvest my corner nests during the initial period, I left the corners there (sometime Blocked it with paper) until it blocked the birds from building nests at the place and then they have no choice but to build next to it.....from my experience, they started building nest next to the corner nests and not only that, the next few generation birds seemed to build nests near the "mother of all nests". Initially, I had 90% corners but after a few generation of birds, I ended up 90% half cups. Although many argued that corner fetch lower market price but then, it didn't make sense to me cos if making lesser 25% will make the birds happier, I rather take lesser amount but then, my increment of birds will be much better than that of my neighbours.

That's the reason that I once had nests that form long row of nests and some even had more than 10 nests which sometime ago, a famous Sifu called it the "king of all nests" which were make up from a whole family of birds.

I did observed that when your birds get used to you, they seemed to ignore your presence in the BH and will remained in the BH as maybe they did feel safe with you and knew that you would do them no harm. Long ago, I had a BH just above my shop (home) and every off day, my wife and I used to go up to the BH and do maintenance and then end up to clean ourself or feeding the fishes at the pond just outside the BH. All the while, the birds remained in the BH circling around you and sometime one would missed and hit you. Thus, nobody knew that we were harvesting Birdnests then.....and it was really wonderful.

Me overtalking again, apologies.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 3 2009, 06:50 PM

It's always been the Perhilitan and their requirements. That's why we find it difficult to export unprocessed EBN oversea and need to sell to the Indonesian to export our raw EBN. Only Malaysian processed EBN will be more easier to export as the wifelife department is not involved. China allowed Malaysia to export unprocessed EBNs to China tax free ( EBN that are declared safe and with proper documentations) and we are not utilizing that advantage and we rather smuggle out or sell it to neighbouring countries to export unprocessed EBNs cos of the difficulties and problems to export. Malaysia should infact be the centre for EBN export, a hub where all EBNs from neighbouring countries send their here to be reexported to oversea instead of we selling to the Indo middle men to reexport to oversea....sound stupid but true. By correcting the mistake, we may be the World biggest Exporter of EBN without needing to even own the most BHs.

Given our Government closed and friendly connection with China ( main importer of EBN), we should have taken the initiative to harvest the advantages that we now have or otherwise, when we missed the ship, when come another??????


Everything boleh here, killing a cat will land you in Jail but killing thousands of swiftlets is OK................to charge or not to charge, that's their right.


Am I right? or am I outdated?

Oyes, Someone in Kuantan told me that Perhilitan also want BHs in Kuantan to pay Rm200 lesen for each BHs but to my knowledge, no one has pay them........

Beautiful, so you have over ...let see 250 heavy nests divided by 42 coming to 4 kilo....not bad at such time and buyers are ever ready..... many are complaining of no new nests but to those who really provided sanctuaries, they still have plenty of new nests, new chicks and new eggs to boost about...........one of followers of sanctuary's method of harvesting had a coffee break with me and told me that he was at his BH yesterday and was please the new nests showing at location just harvested after fledgling recently.

Secondly, What I meant on my last posting was during the initial period of having about 30 to 50 corner nests, I blocked some of the empty nests to force the birds to make nest next to its nests but at your counting of 250 corner empty nests, you must have over 1000 of nests in the BH but then, no way by now you still have 90% corners and maybe close to 50/50, I may believe lah....maybe your birds are different.

Or Bro, you must be kidding and April 1 is still far away. hahahaha....

Machang boleh jamin Suara Burung yang berkualiti , adakah "Money Refund" jaminan atau "cuba dahulu, bayar kemudian" jika berpuas. Harga yang berpatutan hanya atas kebolehan suara. Kalau tidak berguna, 10 ringgit pun sudah mahal dah! Adakah trak recod atau tempat bunyi tersebut telah dipakai untok membukti kekuatan nya dan bukan aklan sahaja, kawan. Saya ada ratus suara dan tidak pernah saya pakai menlainkan suara yang pertama (Lagu lama P. Ramli) yang telah berjaya medatangkan burung walit. Harap tuan punya suara datangkan walit dan bukan burung hantu ,,,,,,,hahahaha, Oleh demikian, harap dapat kawan meberikan sedikit bukti atau resume atas kebolehan suara kawan.

Ma'af jika terlebih demi kebaikan semua diforum ini..........

Asalam Mualaikum

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Added on December 6, 2009, 12:19 pmYoung or capable or powerful or just anyone willing to help out for the betterment of the industry can always call up DL and knowing DL, he will be most helpful to tell you how you can help the industry in your area or to assist him in convincing the authorities to see the positive views of this industry and also to kick the ass of those who know nothing but acting as expert in this field thus causing so much more difficulties for those who are trying to help but hampered by those idiots.





This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 6 2009, 12:19 PM

Personally, I think we should use Tai Chi.......push and pull. Only use force when really require but try soft approaches whenever possible....that way, neither sides will end up bruise or badly hurt. Give other face and we end up having a new friend instead of a enemy. In our industry, better to have friends and no enemy. Convincing opposition/trouble makers to be on our side if possible but then you need guys who really can talk sweet flowers and birds singing to be successful and I ain't that guy cos I F*** more than I can convince lah. Good and successful salesmen are that type of persons we need and anyone around??????

Again, that's my own view on the matter concerned.

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Added on December 7, 2009, 10:53 amEco Park's concept of birds park even has nursery for the chicks meaning that they are going to harvest all the nest in approximated 45 days cycle and take all eggs and artificially hatch the eggs and then hand feed the chicks which already is against the wildlife act and why the Perhilitan has no objection in the matter.

If Perhilitan still consider swiftlets as wild, then action must be taken against the Eco guys. I believe that what they are doing is only pretext for harvesting the nests illegally (throwing the eggs and chicks into dustbins in the later stage, I presume)......initially they may do all the above but gradually, they will not because it take alot of labour and time not to mention the cost of doing so. Added to it, there is no assurance that the birds will return to the same place to breed after fledgling. Unless they cage the birds and rear the birds like chicken farms........that will hell for the free birds if possible and what the Perhilitan going to do about it?

Someone asked why the problems facing the industry are posted in this forum cos I believe that many of Government Departments like Perhilitan and Veterinary are reading our forum for signs, feedbacks and idea on industry plus the public's opinions in the matter.

Again, above are my own opinions and suggestions on the matter, apology if offended.

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Added on December 7, 2009, 6:56 pmI am glad that the terms created by me "Swiftlet Sanctuaries" has been widely used and I hope that the authorities esp. the Veterinary and Perhilitan understand that we, the providers of the SS are infact helping them to preserve the Swiftlets species........ and that they are suppose and should provide us full assistance and not to create hardship and difficulties. Public and other agencies may not understand us maybe but surely not the Perhilitan or the Veterinary as we are infact providing Swiftlets Sanctuaries and in the same time creating wealth and jobs opportunities for the nation. Not to mentioned that we have help so many other industries to prosper and all dead or wasted buildings have been utillised by us to create wealth and opportunities. That's our PM understand and hope that all will end well for the industry.

Another that I am proud to be the one to bring to the attention of the authorities toward the "One Stop Center" for all applications for this industry during the Seremban Workshop. We do not want to run round in circle from departments to departments.......just one department will do to handle all applications and the department concerned will do the needful for us if necessary.

Appologies for being proud as I believe that I did something right for once toward the bettement of the industry.


This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 7 2009, 06:56 PM

A Newbiz PM me .............Out of my curiosity,please advise whether a land 100 meter from the beach and next to a swimming pool is suitable for building bird house. Some said it is too windy and the chlorine smell from the pool would chase them away.
If they is a water pond within the BH to increase humidity, when more and more bird shit fall into this water pond, will there be any adverse effect? Is is true that new BH has only 30% success rate?


My Answer to share and to be comments if any:

BH by the sea is not a good site but by the river, that would be good.
Next to a swiming pool is unthinkable as the shits may accidentally fall into the pool and no one with common sense will build one next to a swimming pool.
Water pond is good but is not allow in the BH but in the vicinity is good but make sure that there are fishes in the pond. Bird shits in the pond will only give out aroma that will attract the birds and will not not has any adverse effect on the birds.

Successful BH or not, to me..........If the area already id surrounded by successful BHs, your chance of success is 70% and if you do your homework correct, then you have 50% chances in a suitable good place. but if the area already has BHs but all not very promising, your chances of success is less than 30% cos the problem with the area are that all the BHs in the area are most properly total harvesters and leave no new bird to new comer..all are expecting the other to provide new bird and end up everybody is a loser; selfish, greedy but loser!!!! That's my own personal opinion to your no.2 question.

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Added on December 8, 2009, 4:15 pmYeah! Why only pick on EBN only and no mention of others under their wings.....why no mention about taking out snake skin, tiger tooth or elephant tusk....and many others like turtle eggs when turtles are going to be extinct already. I believe it all boiled down on someone, somewhere must have some hidden interest in the matter cos' I never seem a gov dept. taking so serious about their job otherwise we should have saved our turtles ......going out all the way to stop and prevent anyone taking out EBN, a Malaysian products. It not simply like paying Rm100 per Kg tax but where and how to pay is another problem......meaning that exporting EBNs are only for the selected few only and who they are, I don't know. Never saw anyone prevented a tourist from taking Malaysian products for own use.......until now and that's EBN !!!!!!

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 8 2009, 08:38 PM

Do you know that most of the Indo buyers are here not shopping for their processing factories in Indonesia but to smuggle the nests to their buyers in China thru HongKong runners because their country do not produce quality nests like Malaysia do and that their country do not have good friendship with China like Malaysia do and that Malaysia is given special privileged to be exemption from paying import tax on EBN.

The China buyers are paying good money for quality nests as we all know that Chinaman are very wealthy now and can afford best nests and nothing less....the Chinaman are willing to pay very high price for super nests and the Indoman are making many time more than if they process their own nests in Indonesia.

Why Malaysia Government didn't give its own citizens this golden opportunities to make good money at the right time, that's now and if not, like the farmers used to complained that they sweat and work very hard to plant but it is the middle men that make the most.....same story here.

Hopefully, Malaysia Authorities Heads are reading and shift toward the right direction......cos, personally, I don't gain from the export but as a true citizen of Malaysia and wish to see Malaysia prosperous and Malaysian well fed....... dan "bukan Lembu punya susu, sapi dapat nama nya".



Assalamualaikum and Salam 1Malaysia

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 9 2009, 05:14 PM

There is no Tax on EBN in HK but to China, there is so the Indo has no alternative but to do so. Since we have the advantage of selling directly to China without Tax, we should have capitalised on it and play safe. Without the support of Perhilitan on the matter, small Malaysian exporter of EBN if wanted to sell to China, we must go thru HK like the Indo i.e underwater; these way, we will lose to the Indo Taikoh as they have good connection that we don't.

If we do infact able to export to China legally, we, Malaysian can open outlets with declaration and plus advertisement that our EBN are legal in China ...with birth certificates (Country Of Origin) enclosed. This will give us a edge over other countries in opening outlets in China. Then, everyone will feel safe buying our wonderful nests.....and we, Malaysian can have a share in China big expanding market. Markets in China are too big even if all Malaysian join in.

Above are my humble opinions in the matter and expert in the field may want to give their professional advices and comments......VIPs like Dato Beh and friends who are exporting nests to China very regularly, I believe. What I can share are my 2 sen knowledge only.

The Star .Satturday December 12, 2009
Dilemma over RM1bil swiftlet nest trade
with my comments

KUALA LUMPUR: The swiftlet nest industry is highly lucrative with an annual turnover reaching RM1bil.

#And many more billions if the Government allows …….

Local authorities are against having swiftlet farms in towns as they can cause nuisance to the public and pollute the environment.

#If that the problems, then it’s easy…just give reasonable guidelines for the Swiftlets Sanctuaries Providers to obey and follow.

But in Sarawak where there are over 1,500 such farms operating illegally in towns, any attempt to eradicate them will impact negatively on the industry.

#What’s so illegal about the swiftlets Sanctuaries, and if it is illegal, then action must have taken years ago. Just that proper guidelines have yet be issued to ensure that there will be no problem or nuisance in the future.

The licensing issue cropped up last year after the authorities conducted an exercise to clear up illegal swiftlet farms in Mukah town.

#The Action taken because of hidden agenda and that clean up exercise was infact illegal and action should be taken against the wildlife department for causing the death of so many swiftlets that should protected according to their wildlife acts and laws. What’s about the forced entry? Why didn’t the department taken those who supposedly broke the law to court but instead use force to break in and killed all the swiftlets’ chicks and eggs; all done under the pretext of protecting the so called wild swiftlets.

Furthermore, the Sarawak’s 1998 Wildlife Protection Ordinance also prohibits the species from being bred in other than its natural habitat like the caves. Prohibited other than its natural habitat then doesn’t the following sound foolish?

1. Sarawak’s Forestry Department director Datuk Len Talif Salleh said the state government wanted the industry to be developed in a controlled manner in accordance with the laws.
2. Len Talif pointed out that only about 100 licenses had been approved from the 600 to 700 applications received since May.
3. “Most of the licenses approved are for the ‘old-players’ who conform to the prerequisites,” he said.
4. All of the licenses were issued for swiftlet farms in Mukah, Bintulu, Kuching, Kota Samarahan and Sarikei with all of them in agricultural areas.
5. The good news is, the state government plans to build three swiftlet ecoparks in Mukah, Sarikei and Bintulu with lots to be sold and rented out to those who are keen.


#In accordance with the Law. Does that mean that ECOPARKS are natural habitat for swiftlets and why the town BH isn’t?; The industry to be develop in a controlled manner according to the laws (which Law) but the State wildlife law only allow the swiftlets to be bred in natural habitat and it seem that rich and influential people (the ECOPARKS Men) are the only ones that can bypass the law and what does it means by controlled manner;

#Licenses approved for old players only and to me, it sound double standard or something fishes going on; All the licnese were issued for swiftlets farms in agriculture areas but that’s also against the wildlife law and does the law has two sided interpretation;

The good news is that the state government plan to build three ECOPARKS

#and now we all know why and doesn’t that sound stupid? Should have said that the state government is going to dig 3 large caves to provide natural habitat for the swiftlets to breed and populate.

The swiftlet nest from this country is of high quality and is highly sought in China and Arab with prices fetching up to RM10,000 per kilo.

#That’s why they are interested in…by the powerful Eco men.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 12 2009, 08:41 PM

The real problem now facing the BH is not the Perhilitan but the State Government and its Local Authorities. Most of the Local Authorities are against having the BHs @ towns........and that's why Guidelines after Guidelines, there is still no license issue and there may not be any for the town if the ECO Parks can succeed in what they are doing. The licenses are issue by the local authorities and not Perhilitan and although the guidelines are from the veterinary Department/Perhilitan. Only a few states approve the BHs @ town like the Kedah, Kelantan and Pahang but for the rest of the country, assume to be very cold toward the BHs @ town.

Give the local authorities a valid reason to kick the town BHs out, they will and without any hesitation. That's what I believe but pray that I am wrong so help me God.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 13 2009, 04:16 PM

You are mistaken; Even buying the whole street doesn't make the difference at all.....when the Authorities want you to move, you either fight or move. Unless you are the MB, then it is different.

And as for the agriculture land, at present here, you must make sure that the land is not in the Bandar area, otherwise, you will share the same fate as the rest of the town BHs. Do it in Mukin according with the present guidelines (who know if they are going to change it again) so as to be safer side but that doesn't give you 100% assurance as long as the ECO man is there. They will throw at you even with the kitchen sink,,,hahahaha, just joking lah!!!

Anyway, we all shall learn to be positive about everything as things may not as bad as what we think and I am not here to scare you all but that we wish to let all @ forum know what to expect if these things do happen for at least, you die knowing why and be prepared for a good funeral.

Amen

Singapore.....the Singapore authorities will stop you even before you can start building one but then, at least you know where you stand and the Sing authorities are always none compromising and non negotiating at all. So, in Singapore, at least you know where you stand but here, Hari ini boleh, Besok tak boleh and if they disallow the BHs @ town during the initial time, no one will suffer and we will not have birdnests to boost about either. Malaysia will not be able to talk about how we can be the NO.1 in this industry. Before, they allowed you, later, they want some guidelines with it and now, they want to reconsider and later they want you to move out. The show may go on and on.............. so frustrating lah! Like I said, after so many Guidelines, we still back to square one.

Anyone here can think of a way to move Birds buildings out of the town incase the authority disallow BHs @ town...hahahahaha ( laughing in tears)

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Added on December 16, 2009, 2:18 pmHeard the good news from the our Dato from Trg. this afternoon ; the Exit tax of Rm100 for the first 1 kg is waived........ and only Rm100 for any amount exceeding 1Kg, hope that I heard it right!!!!! The new act is at its final preparation and should be table soon and the whole Malaysia will have one set of regulations and procedures only that's include Sarawak and Sabah.

So, sleep well tonight for tomorrow maybe a better day for the Swiftlets Sanctuary Providers.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 16 2009, 02:18 PM

Hey, is the latest recommendation differ from the Seremban proposal that I have attended cos......I am lost of touch with the new recommendation if it is different to the old one. Anyone having the new ones please forward.................

Many stuborn BHs owners didn't appreciate what we all tried to do and to solve problems for all. IF they can't help out, do try to cooperate by reducing sound and not creating complaints from neighbours.

It really help us alot when we try to negotiate with the local authorities when there isn't any complaints from the public...for that at least, we weren't shown stack of complaints from the enforcers. How to tell the local authorities that we can take care of ourselves if there are still so many complaints and so many BHs owners aren't cooperating.

When I was the President of my Association, I tried to propose that we use the majlis to help to forward warnings letters to the culprits but was prevented by the Committees from doing so and so I resigned. No cure for those stuborn fools who own BHs having over few thousands nests and still scared that others will take away their birds and blasting their sound days and nights like nobody's business.

So, readers of the forum, pls. help us to help you all by persuading BHs owners not to create unnecessary troubles...........for at least, those are trying to help will have lesser problems facing them when they try to deal with the authorities. All that are required are common senses that say your neighbours have rights and need their rest and that bird sounds may sound sweet to you only but not to your neighbours.

I care for the swiftlets more than the BH owners as what they are doing may sentence the swiftlets to their death.

Sorry if offended.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 17 2009, 09:01 PM

It all boiled down to "Quan" Authority has 2 mouths....either ways also possible but only to the authorities. Total Protected,Semi protected or Domesticated all depend on their own interpretation of the Acts. Now, the Eco and the Authorities are joining up to set up hugh parks to mass produce swiftlets for EBNs by rearing and hand feeding the swiftlets. If they are successful, GOD has mercy on the Free swiftlets..........Later, we may find designer's nests up to buyers' specifications.....factory made to order. Color, size and even number of feathers also can.

That's will be the day.................the day, I discourage all from taking birdnests as EBN will be contaminated and possible harmful to health and no more natural health food.

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Added on December 20, 2009, 4:40 pmIs the poster still there at the international Departure gate????? Cos, one Dato told me that they have successfully convinced the authorities to allow free 1 KG of EBN and that above 1 KG and even one container is only Rm100. and that the only department needed is the Perhilitan. Are the above true or false?????


This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 20 2009, 04:40 PM

Not stupid but very smart cos where there is money, there where I stay.............like in the Hokkian Song

Now, even the town planning department guys are going for a kill. Before if you do small renovation at your shop or office, no body cares but now, the enforcers are very fast to know and they are on your back so fast that you don't have the time to sneeze. They come ready with camera and taking pictures and notes..........

They will issue you a summon to stop work and to apply for renovation and your application now must be follow by a Architect drawing ( formally just a decent drawing will do) whcih will cost you about Rm4000 and they even tell you which architect to go to if you want a quick approval....if you get the breeze. The summon will 10 times the application....by calculation provided.


So, the present situation with our BHs is bad but will get worst when we apply for lesen as most of the departments will be cashing in and going for the kill and we are the prey.........

So, if any of readers here are doing renovation at their office or shop, do so discreetly; closed door and only move the materials in on off day to avoid the summons problem.

This post has been edited by West Wing: Dec 28 2009, 05:44 PM

In Malaysia way, the Laws can be interpreted differently for differently people so beware of what you speak or do cos it may land you into serious trouble.

Like a case with JPA, a guy got a summon for overtaking in a double lines road and knowing that he didn't, he went to the court. After 1 year with 7 postponements, he finally won the case.........and later,in less than 3 months, he received another letter from JPA that his driving license has been suspended for a year because of accumulating 3 summons over the last year, he should has paid the summon of Rm300 and may even get 50% discount if he appeal for it......oh my God, how does he knows that he has the 3 summons and most people will just pay up without checking if there is any truth in the summon to avoid going to court.

Many others must have received tens of summons and still free to drive and this poor guy has only 3 summons and if it was his at all!!!!! So, friends of forum, be careful when dealing with the authorities, they can bite you and when they bite you, they bite deep lah.

Words of advice from a friend.