Yes, and are you trolling sir?

absolutely not sir
juz mau double confirm

obviously u have taken my joke way too seriously. everybody knows that i was just joking but u decided to bring it up to another level. mayb u felt offended that many people questioning why SC is in every year. If u noe that WCG list is a crap then why bother? I love watching SC. Everytime SC final i make sure i wont miss John Rambo in action. Well yea u can say that John Rambo is nothing compare to Korea godlike player but hey John Rambo is my friend and i love to watch SC and to me he is a gd player.

if many refuse to accept that SC is the freaking sh!t then let them be. i even dont give a damn that people keep on comparing WE and FIFA ALL THE TIME. bcoz its a game. everyone has its own preferences. its like CS 1.6 and Source and COD 4 and COD 5. many people prefer COD 4 then 5 bcoz dont have all those vehicles stuff. but that doesnt mean COD 5 isnt good. its preferences.

have u really read my post properly? did i admit that quality games is one of the factor as well? or u just cant take the fact that Starcraft was in the WCG list not bcoz of its quality? And so is FIFA to make u more happy. FIFA is never on the list bcoz of its quality. There, i have said it so that u can understand more clearly.

u have keep on mentioning how fail WCG is but did i mention WCG was a success? did i say WCG did a great job that it should be given a noble prize?

all i have been trying to say is tht WCG list of games got nothing to do with the quality or the popularity of the games. Simple as that. If they want to earn for profit or to survive by all means it is their rights. But u cant deny the fact that WCG create awareness through out the whole world of the existence of e-sports. Tetra from Singapore bcame a national hero bcoz of WCG. He slap his GM bcame frontpage news in the newspaper. From all other news he made it into the frontpage man.

there are other international tourney i believe but many people pay more attention to WCG bcoz of its name "World Cyber Games" but people forget the failure of other international tourney such as "Electronic Sports World Cup". ESWC didnt follow the biz model of WCG and thts y it couldnt survive. And yet most people especially Euro claim that ESWC is better when they themselves fail to survive. Well of course there are a sense of unrelated factor in why they say ESWC is better bcoz WCG is from Asia and ESWC is from the west.

And if u read to my post properly i have stated that i disagree with the game list but i understand why WCG did that. Did i def saying WCG is the best? WCG is right?

u may think that the survival of WCG is not relevant but it is to other countries including Malaysia and other countries who doesnt have a strong e-sports community yet. I have a friend in India who bcame an instant celebrity bcoz of WCG. WCG may not as u point out be the true flag bearer for e-sports but we all cant deny the fact the influence and awareness it has through out the whole world. Dont deny the fact that a world champion in WCG doesnt change anything. If WCG isnt relevant then why Korea was so desperate to get as many medal as possible from Starcraft. There were even controversies in WCG 07 i think for match fixing between the Korea SC player. They are freaking celebrities earning thousands but they still care to win a medal from WCG. This prove that WCG is still relevant for the e-sports community and thats y many people were dissapointed everytime WCG list out games which are not their cup of tea.

obviously u need to get out of Korea. Dont tell me Germany and China doesnt have this 4 factors. We also have this factor but we really lack at sponsorship and medias. Thats the reason i founded Spotgamers. We are coming into 1 year now (wow didnt notice that) and we did pretty good for just a blog with no profit at all. Only loss

yes everything start from A game but to push it need another factor. if u read my post properly i was pointing out the fact that A game alone is not sufficient enough to go all the way out. u need the factors to work it out or shld i say the whole package.

All of ur post is pointing out the fact that i 100% agree in WCG and 100% disagree that quality games is the key factor. Now ur misleading people thinking that the previous is true. Which is entirely wrong if u read my post again carefully.

I donno why u care enough about my joke bcoz it was nvr intended to u. It was a bit sarcastic but I dont like the fact that ur twisting my words and pointing it out as if i were defending everything WCG did.

if u want to keep on going by all means go ahead. i will still say the same thing. all of my post has been saying the same thing in case u didnt read it properly. If u still think im defending WCG 100% on its list then i will say this again, WCG list got ntg to do with popularity and quality.

im not sure how many post have i mention this. feel free to quote in any part of my post in which i support WCG game list and agree that all the game on the list is the best game in the world. dun worry i wont edit like some people do.

Please stop defending yourself. Stop saying I'm twisting your word, because only after your 4th reply you told me where you stand. Before that although you don't claim you agree, you also never deny it.

WCG should die trying rather than die doing nothing. They're as good as dead if they serve no purpose anymore.

Thats why i kept explaining, because you don't understand the perfect model for e-sports. If you write this in Starcraft forum, you would be a laughing stock.

This post has been edited by RtP|DEV: Apr 19 2009, 06:38 AM

so can u explain more abit bout the perfect model of esports?
great games r still maintained in wcg, so i wouldnt say they r better off dead.. but seriously their selection this year=-=

please again read my words carefully. this is what happens when u like to quote on people's word without seeing the whole pics.

it was a surprise to me that u only realize this after my 4th post when i have 7th post now. Even worst when i have to ask u to go through again all my post to find it.


*

U are still trying to deny the fact of WCG influences on other countries and how it also help to give the awareness of e-sports. They are to me successful for they still manage to survive for almost 10 years now whereby some of its similar type competitors bungkus. It seems to me ur denying the fact that even if WE is on WCG it wouldnt bring WE to another level when many still until now frustrated that it didnt make it. WCG will boost the WE community just as how WCG had done to other games including FIFA.

WCG did take a bold step especially with TMNF. TMNF is a free game and they dun earn much if not anything when they could have earn more from Grid or NFS. So y did they opt for TMNF? There are rumours goin that EA and WCG had some arguments bcoz WCG refuse to put all the EA line up in its game list like in previous years. I think there might b truth in it since FIFA was not on the immediate game on the 1st list. And i don think they earn a lot either from mobile games. There are more who play games on consoles and pc than mobile games.

The way i see they are trying something but it is still unclear yet wat is the motive. I believe they trying to implement some changes but its gonna take time for sure.

Again u fail to understand bcoz u decided to quote instead of understanding the whole pics.



Now the way u see it is in terms of games. U feel that CGS is a failure bcoz of its selection of games. Well i can say that if CGS was better manage they would have an increase of followers every year. There are even talks with each nation gov to invest money in building up a team for CGS bcoz CGS has mainstream media exposure which can help e-sports bcame true in other nations. The China gov even build up an e-sports stadium just to fulfill CGS needs. Your so called failure CGS has just manage to influence one of the big taiko in Asia to invest in a stadium. Though the stadium will also be used for other e-sports event as well but without CGS they would not think of building one.

So when gov is showing support in e-sports, u think the mass public wont join e-sports in regards to the games? Mayb u wont but millions other will.

Why? bcoz of monetary value it has offering hundred of thousands to gamers.

The 1st challenge E-Sports has to face is the general public perception. Would parents allow kids play games instead of studying or getting a good job? Hell no if playing games doesnt give u any benefit and cant even fill in ur empty stomach.


But here CGS came with this business model that offers professional gamer a yearly paid contract worth hundreds of thousand. Do u think that this money alone would not attract people into competitive gaming? Do u think parents would still be skeptical about this that they will still encourage their pro-gamer kids to still find a good job although their kids is earning hundreds of thousand? Do you think sponsors dont want to sponsors the team which has exposure across the world through mainstream media? Do u think medias dun want to write about people who earn hundreds of thousand just by playing games?

All the factors are there but u still call it as a failure and yet u agree that this factor exist in Korea. Thats kinda funny to me.

If in Malaysia i would say SMM also adopt this marketing tactic. They offer more than 100k to the gamers every year and thats y DOTA has jump onto another level compare to other games. If SMM had nvr taken this initiative DOTA in Malaysia will still be just like that, a semi-pro league just like the rest of the games. They even go further by adding up national pride last year whereby our local boys gonna compete with the best in Asia. U play games, u get paid and, u get to be a celeb and be a national hero. Not good enough to influence the public?

If EA or other game publisher did the same thing as SMM other games will also jump into another level. But they dont see any benefit yet investing a lot of money to support this cause.

So what if i bcame a laughing stock to them. If they still going to laugh on a proven working biz model which is concrete enuff then go ahead. If they are laughing at me they are actually laughing at themselve bcoz the joke is on them to fail to realize that it was the above biz model that brought up their fav games into e-sports, not bcoz of their uberly godlike wow gila lah quality game. I dont blame their inability to understand how the world,the real life works.

If u still wanna say that the above isnt the factor that brought up SC in Korea and e-sports in other countries, and still believe that the quality of the games is sufficient enough then ur definitely being ignorant. I give u 1 Million/year to play FIFA or other games. U dont want? Its ok, millions of people will.

Ok, i apologize and admit my mistake. From now on i'll quote the whole thing.

Yes WCG did create awareness during the early stage of e-sports, but they stray to far from their original purpose. The earlier version of WCG was good. What current WCG did is, they create awareness for scrubs by telling their game is competitive, and give fake excuse why a game should be played. This is bad for competitive gaming in general. In this day you have internet, it's not like we live in the 80s. If its creating awareness that competitive community exist, internet did its job pretty well.

"The 1st challenge E-Sports has to face is the general public perception. Would parents allow kids play games instead of studying or getting a good job? Hell no if playing games doesnt give u any benefit and cant even fill in ur empty stomach."
Didn't i mentioned that these scrubs need some cheap incentive to play a game? Didn't my first link said something about these? Just because some people at the other end of the world make hundreds of thousands a year, that doesn't mean some gamers also entitled to the same amount. It must come with sacrifice and effort. Read some story about 1st generation Starcraft pro-gamers. So great their sacrifice, it'll make you cry.

It's unfair to compare SMM and CGS. What SMM did was right because they didn't try to push something that doesn't exist in the first place. DotA have solid foundation in this country. It was built from the ground up by gamers who love the game. It's no fluke, the gamers and the fans are real. CGS on the other hand try to push something that doesn't exist and try to get fake audience. They believe the whole community can be brainwashed by some gimmick they produce. With the inclusion of CSS, they divide the current existing CS community. Be honest, you know why it's in the list, because "to them" CSS is more watchable to the audience. They fail to see that the audience want substance not outer appearance.

They still include DOA despite cry from fighting game community. PGR and FIFA are not worth watching(i'm not trying to offend you or belittle the game, I'm talking from spectators point of view). What made you think people will watch FIFA over EPL on sunday night? For games to evolve into sports, players alone is not enough. They need to attract audience, although you agree to this you fail to see what CGS was trying to do is getting as much fake audience as they can to their side. I always said this in SC thread, a competitive gaming without spectators are just bunch of nerd trying to prove whose e-peen is bigger. Why do you think sponsors would want to invest in something that won't give them much in return? This is the flaw of competitive gaming outside Korea. They try too hard getting gamers to their side when they're suppose to reach more audience(loyal fanbase not some casual fake audience). Gamers will always exist, they don't need to worry about that.

That's why i said before, we rely to much on tech sponsors. Because of that, some organizations are obliged to include some half-assed game into their list just to survive. Is it too hard for them to see that they don't need Microsoft? Since CGS will be shown on TV, why can't they adopt the perfect model from South Korea?(This partly answers your question kenixkenix). People drink Pepsi, drink Beer, eat Pringles, and use gadget like iPod, but why CGS can't see this and try to lobby for support from this kind of sponsors. Western world need to get out from their zone of comfort. That's why i look to your "survival" argument as a joke, because WCG also can adopt the same approach. Entertainment industry is recession proof. Soft drink, beer and fast food company are also recession proof. But tech companies are not.

Now you say the game selection based on merit is more of idealism. You go as far as telling us we didn't know how the real world works. From what i see you're the one who doesn't understand how entertainment world works. To me attracting audience is easy, the challenge is keeping your audience(read WC3 in Korea). Almost all popular TV series in the US will drop in rating after few seasons. Like i said before, things are always interesting to watch when they're new. When people see that's all there is to it, less and less people are willing to watch it. If a game doesn't have substance, they will surely fail. Yet you judge audience acceptance towards CGS based on its first season alone.

Now watch these 2 videos of Streeat Fighter 3: Third Strike and Street Fighter 4.


Then watch this CGS's DOA final.


Which one do you think will attract more audience in the long run? Which one do you think will attract more non-tech sponsors? If games they showed on TV have substance then surely general perception towards gaming can change. These games they showed made these gamers nerdier than they are in real life. Trust me, people don't buy cheap gimmick like reality TV, commercial band and stuff.

"So when gov is showing support in e-sports, u think the mass public wont join e-sports in regards to the games? Mayb u wont but millions other will."
Depends on what they call e-sports. If they brand Guitar Hero as e-sports, sry i'd rather watch Petrucci, Van Halen or Syu doing solo on their guitar.

"If u still wanna say that the above isnt the factor that brought up SC in Korea and e-sports in other countries, and still believe that the quality of the games is sufficient enough then ur definitely being ignorant. I give u 1 Million/year to play FIFA or other games. U dont want? Its ok, millions of people will.'
Except in Korea gamers and audience were there first before media and sponsors joined the bandwagon. Even in Malaysia DotA and its fans were there before SMM joined the bandwagon. What CGS did was getting the sponsors to sponsor games no one play, before they even have any audience. Now who's ignorant?

im sorry but I nvr judge CGS on the 1st season alone. all my post along has been talking bout CGS for the whole season. there are increase of numbers of viewers in the 2nd season with 80% came from Asia. but sadly they neglect the Asian counterparts and focus too much on the western team when it was clear evidence that the hits come from Asia. See this the sign of one of its mismanagement. if CGS doing fine i will say they will keep on going for another 10-20 years. Why? Bcoz they have a global market presented to them. They can easily get millions to watch and millions to follow and millions to participate. That is good enough.

werethere or not its fake or pure that is up to the each and everyone perception. though u believe that there are more people playing WE but i believe there are more people playing FIFA. from FO2 itself we can see thousands of FIFA fans. and b4 u said FO2 is a shitty game compare to whateva bla bla bla i will say again, its come down to everyone own perception.

how did u noe that nobody plays CS:S? how did u noe that nobody plays FIFA or DOA or any of the games? has it ever occur to u that there are people playing it and there is audience too? mayb they perceive that this games are good and suitable to their shows and would like to help this community grow more. is it wrong to do so? the quality of a game is base on perception. to me i dun like Narnia but to others they feel its a nice movie. so does that make me right and they wrong? nobody is right or wrong bcoz everyone has its own taste. ur trying to say as if everyone in the whole world thinks like u.. that all the games in CGS or WCG is sh1t. To u WCG doesnt mean a thing for it has gone way out of its main purpose. But to others WCG is their hope, its their dream to leap to another level, to go to another world and yes, being a champion in WCG will allow to achieve that.

do u believe that if Malaysia did win the world series it wouldnt boost our local community and e-sports? sometimes u got to prove to the rest of the people that e-sports does promote good ethics and can provide financial security in the future rather than just talking. that is why every year we always want someone from Malaysia to b the world champion. coz its definitely gonna get the right attention from the right people to understand that e-sports is serious biz.

u can try to talk about ur perfect model to the ministry or anyone of the top people but they will just listen and forget. but if u prove to them in an international tournament that we are the best in the world, nuff said the road is much easier now.

but with MESA (Malaysian E-Sports Association) and other gov bodies going to promote e-sports especially trying to bid for WCG Asia nxt year, i can say that something is going to happen in the near future. and believe me,all of this can be true for a simple fact of reason was because we broke the world record thru Cyberfusion. there were hundreds of gamers sacrifice their everything and be united in this 3 days event just to prove to the whole world we are just as good as u all.

thts is y i said how CGS and WCG is relevant for the simple fact that action speak louder than words. pls go ahead and talk about ur perfect model to them and see if they care. but now with ur guinness world record in ur hand u have the concrete and solid prove in ur hands that they cant deny it. so which is easier to convince? the talk or the action?

i noe that u still goin to say about gamers is the main factor yes it is one of it. that is one of the way. and the above is another way too. both way works. but i would say the above is better bcoz it is more solid concrete evidence than just putting it in words.

plus if u would like to compare to online league, it will definitely restrict other nation participation due to internet speed. how can i play with the guys in euro or in korea when the latency is damn high? No matter what CGS and WCG offers each and every one of the gamers a chance to play fair and square without this issue.

its funny to me too that u choose the female version of DOA instead of the male version. well if u ask me i still prefer DOA. why? bcoz its preferences. for u it may doesnt look nice. but for me it is a good game. does that make im right n ur wrong? no both of us are right and wrong. bcoz its each other perception. its jst the same as between FO2 and FIFA 09. i still prefer playing FIFA 09 though many have shift to play FO2.

it amaze me that ur quoting the whole post but still fail to understand it. did i mention again agree that gamers is part of the factor? i was entirely talking about how other factors contribute to the rise of e-sports, not gamers alone when u earlier pointing out the fact gamers alone is sufficient enough. and of coz there is a need of sacrifices for success. and tht was exactly wht we hv just did in Cyberfusion, in WCG, in CGS and etc etc.

well of coz internet is another source of info but still nobody can again deny the fact that WCG influences goes beyond boundaries. It doesnt make much diff if ur a champion in an online league compare to a champion in WCG.

so if new shows only got gd rating in few season and die later so wat? there will always be a new show spawn and inspired by the old one. there are more people getting bored to see every year see the same old SC in WCG. thts y now got SC 2 coming up. it was inspired by the old. either or not it will be jst like the old one tht is another story.

Quote me. You can find my quote from any thread you want from june 2007. If you can't find one maybe you owe me an apology since this would make me look like a retarded bias. When i mention something is shitty because there are something better. Better doesn't mean only in gameplay, but also organized community, and community effort. Look from my first post then quote me. I'll explain why its shitty.

For f*** sakes, is it me or you who do not understand?

Since when i said shit about game quality of FIFA, goddammit i already exclude FIFA and NFS from deserving title for spectators reason, not the game quality, yet you still bring these titles into discussion. I know many people play footy sims so please, next time tell me something i don't know. Notice why i used fighting genre, not Starcraft as example? Because i want to be neutral, but you keep dragging titles that shouldn't be in the argument anymore. You keep assuming what i think, but you don't see that. You kept b****ing how i'm twisting your words but you keep attacking me based on what you think. You assumed that i got offended because of Starcraft comment. Sorry dude not even the slightest, i didn't even defend myself because i thought it wasn't important. But now I'm offended.

Stop using your beautiful words, like this and that is their only hope, and dreams or such. If they dream so much work hard to prove it. Its not about preference. If community A is twice larger than community B, you don't need to be a genius to figure out who deserves the spot the most. Go to console section search SF, VF, and DOA then come here tell me which is the most active. What about their hope, their dream and the most important what about their effort? I'm talking about justice here, I'm not asking WCG to include Tower Defense in the list.

It's not about f***ing taste, what game you play depends on your preference. But what these big multi-gaming tournaments should pick have nothing to do with taste. Is it understood? AND DID I SAY NOBODY PLAY FIFA AND DOA, i was just simplifying the last part(its like 4 games in CGS). Now you took something like that seriously. Dude if you want to make claim like how big DOA is, please give me resource, video or something like that. Show me DOA community outside CGS and WCG circles. CGS and WCG are not their effort, they just got lucky. Then i can re-evaluate where i stand. Funny, Its hard for you to change your view even when i said that fighting game community do not recognize DOA as a legitimate competitive title. I've change my view from time to time based from what i observed. If i so "keras kepala" i would still not acknowledge DotA. So what i said in 2006 like how big WE was, doesn't apply now.

Nah~ you guys too serious in E-sport, jali would so serious and dreaming and trying hard to make eSport success and of course wish him success.

But the fact is, due to economy down time, it wont do well in 2-4 years.

1. CGS is fail - If taken the audience from asia and fans/audience base in asia, they done wrong marketing.
yet, million ppl in asia is too little, consider china, indonesia and india already take 35% of population.
Many thing take in concern, small kids rather dont watch TV live for egame compy but rather see the gameplay how they play, by seeing CGS, seriously even come with high prize, when i watching it, really a joke.

2. WCG is not fail due to Samsung supporting. But it fail too in malaysia due to too little game involve.
Compare with indonesia, i would say indonesia and singapore way more successful.
You may blaim organizer, you may blaim local gamers not active support.

3. Cyberfusion consider kinda failure, i know lot of story of event setup and after event setup, it come with politic involve too, but well, gamers satisfied would say it kinda 40-60% ok too. just organizer is too fail, they hire a concert/lighting organizer instead of game/tournament organizer.

4. ESWC malaysia kinda success, and i think they did make a turn too, just too bad all been step down, money issues, blaim economic.

but well, argue with jali is useless, he will have some gamers supporter to defend him, and his thinking is correct, never deny it, jali...sometimes you are right, try think via other point of view, everyone got thier point of view.

But the corruption in cf is really...lol

huh
cf ada corruption?

anyway agree wif guardioo on the economic recession point,
imo, esports can be considered as luxury as it is way above basic and social needs..
so assume that esport as luxury, as eco turun, the permintaan for esports related tingy would also go down

basicly i dun think mym and eswc phail because of their management, its more like the current economy cause them to phail
so if wcg doesnt take in lol games for money, i assume they would phail as well
just a point of view on the economic factor =p think bout it

This post has been edited by kenixkenix: Apr 20 2009, 01:23 AM

oh whts with the frustration? if u not so offended in the beginning then y bother to post a comment regarding my joke? If u couldnt get my joke in the beginning allow me to elaborate: WCG is from Korea, Korean mostly play Starcraft and for that they donno wht is the other popular games outside of Korea so thts y this year list is weird. Of coz its not true. Thats y its a joke. Or mayb its true? but for u nooo... hv to change paradigm shift la this la tht la as if saying SC deserve to be in it where else the other games not really bcoz it has like the biggest community the world have ever seen.

even how big it is SC community in Korea, they can only send 3 people as rep. but most of the other nation find it difficult to even gather more than 8 players.comparing to other games its almost the same. VF might b easier to find in Japan,Korea but not easy outside. FIFA well its very damn easy. almost all nation got no prob with that. so if u ask me, it is irrelevant when 1 nation most popular game made it into every year list though the game is nice when it fail outside. it should consider global takes as well. if games is base on 1 nation liking then other national organizer gonna find difficult to get the numbers and bcoz of that difficult to get sponsors.

did i say DOA was bigger? again u fail to understand. let me make it simple to u. even if there are bigger community other than DOA doesnt concern CGS n WCG werethere they deserve or not. Yes its true bcoz Its up to CGS or WCG or any other competition to decide which game they feel fit to put into. If they feel ohh game A is better connected to their purpose or competition then go ahead.And funny enuff to me u feel this game deserve to be on CGS and WCG when ur infact against them. if the other community so big y does it need WCG and CGS? oh let me guess.. coz gamers alone is not enuff to push it to another level rite.. so it needs the other factors to bring it forward rite.. ahh i c. justice? lol for wat? the gaming community is so big it doesnt need any help at all. wat for join WCG, WCG so cheap. without WCG u guys can still survive wat. just organize a tournament and poof ur goin into e-sports dy. gov gonna support u. sponsors gonna flock to u.

and its not that easy just to get games in the list. sometimes the game publisher can b a pain in the a$$ and less cooperative. so y still look for trouble when someone else can help ease the burden? even long time partner EA got problems with WCG. so as u can see the world is larger and many factors involve in it as well. I noe a game in Malaysia which is quite popular recently but still the game publisher/ local distributor dun wan to try support it. They don want to help build up the community bcoz its too much hassle and its easier to just focus on selling it out.

example of a pain in the a$$ publisher:

Organizer: Yo dude! i wanted to put game A in this year list coz its very popular. is it ok for u?
Publisher: Ok. Pay us $$$$$ for the licensing.
Organizer: Err we was hoping if u could sponsor us the licensing and mayb help us in other parts as well.
Publisher: Hell no! U the one who want my game. My games is so popular so U should pay it. No pay no game.



and yes u said no one play."no one play" either means either "nobody play" or "more than one person play". or it can also mean "number one play". nothing was simplified here. it was direct

if i organize a tournament its up to me wht games i wanna choose.u dun like it then up 2 u lor. i choose to organize a fifa tourney than WE even if WE has more people. is it a crime? and no im not saying u said WE has more ppl than FIFA. its jst an example.

duhh of coz what the games they pick got ntg to do with quality or taste or popularity or wht so eva. thts wht i've been trying to say for the past 2 days. and again if u misunderstood me i will say this again: the list got ntg to do with quality,taste,popularity etc etc. Everything is WCG solely choose. Either they choose it bcoz of money,bcoz of quality,bcoz of popularity its up to them. Their tourney their rights. If u dun like it go and make ur own international tourney. Get all ur deserving games in it and c if it can go as far as WCG or not. All ur deserving game has big community wat. No need to fear anything dy. Petik jari sponsors mari.

and yes i apologize that u hv change ur view since june 2007.for i nvr stalk ur post at all. not until this last 2 days. and so ur point is that now more ppl play FIFA than WE? that FIFA is better than WE?


Srsly i think u shld organize tourney base on ur perfect model. U got the knowledge,u got the facts, u care a lot abt e-sports so it seems, so whats stopping u?

1. CGS representation was terrible. If it were presented better it will get better response. And its not that its done bad marketing. Most of the entertainment shows in Western get most of its audience from Asia.

2. I would say lack of exposure. A Malaysian champ never make it into TV or join any pagi show.

3&4. Its funny to me that u say u noe whts goin on in CF but donno whts goin on in ESWC and yet u say CF fail and ESWC succeed. Were u at CF? I join and if u ask me CF is a success bcoz for the 1st time i saw 274 people were united to prove to the whole world that Malaysian Gamers are World Class quality. And its a success bcoz it gets gov and medias attention.. whereby all the other events didnt get big attention as CF. CF will b d trigger for Malaysia bid to host WCG Asia. Failure? Nope dun think so.

Those behind stories i dun care if its true or not. If its true then u shld report to MACC. But u shld b careful too coz they can sue u for giving out false info without prove. The most important fact is we break the record. i noe some people on the net has been saying omg this sux our lan party is much longer/bigger than u guys. Well u can talk but no prove so sorry we break it not u guys. Dont cry yea. Funny again to me when nVision 1st done the record nobody say anything. But bcoz its Malaysia everyone started to talk about it. lol

yes argue with me is useless.bcoz i walk the walk and talk the talk when most people just noe talk talk talk but nvr do anything. im a very open minded guy. i can understand everyone own pov but wht i dun understand is most of this people only talk as if they are damn brilliant.. but where is their action? if u just read sumthing online bout the facts and everything it wont really help the community.

we want people who are willing to go into the battlefield and fight for what we all believe in. E-SPORTS.

u think CF,ESWC,WCG and CGS all just came like that? no. it all happens bcoz someone is willing to commit his life and fight for what they believe in. They just do it.

lol if their management is good then they would have oversee and prepare for eco downturn.

thts why WCG management is good bcoz they had oversee it. but not to worry every up there is down, every down there is up.

nah~u will always say u right..
i wont say eswc very successful..

you can say watever u want..u can even say i dont even take any move..i doesnt care anyway, since im not interest getting into organizing those event, you can go proud of you taking the 1st step, of course you should proud of it, eventhough u never make the first step, at least u move ur step, just i still feel it wont succeed tis few year, maybe (politic/corruption/race) does make some factor in doing event, not like we never ask for, just something rather keep it quiet then go into futher parts.

Looks like you're being defensive towards WCG. Read #151, that's how it's done in Korea. You think what i wrote on that post was prophecy i got from my dream? The days of government support are over in Korea. It has reached its maturity, and strictly part of entertainment industry. Now pro-team are supported by large Korean chaebol not government. These chaebol spend millions every year for pro-team they owned. Now that's proven business model.


So i tak suka, i keluar la? Nice approach. Thanks for being sarcastic, I'ts like telling me to try lead the government when i voiced dissatisfaction towards them. In 5 years WCG might become yearly exhibition for newly released console games. If that happens, eSports wil become mockery and it'll be interesting to hear your opinion.


If you boast like you're the only one who's contributing then you deserves no respect. Winningkaki, converting people to Starcraft, creating Starcraft community in my college out of nothing, grinding poker for my own online monthly SC2 tourney are what i used to and currently do. No matter whether its big or small, its still a contribution.


off topic:
I'm surprised that EVO and SBO survived by selling their DVD, entrance fee's and donation alone.

For the lulz.
uggh, just picked DOA4 for the first time.

so they have oversee it and took action by taking in lol games?
then i would rather phail
+1 for eswc -1 for wcg and +>9000 for NGL!

so long to read while minum teh

Do not worry my friend, there's still hope. currently there are talks about some German company buying ESWC brand.
ESWC is a martyr of e-sports,

why trackmania?

duhh u think the company want to come in on something tht the gov didnt support? of coz now it doesnt need anything from the gov anymore bcoz the gov have done a great job by switching their eco policy.


so much for ur history in starcraft.

wrong.im telling u to understand that the game list got ntg to do with quality,taste,community etc etc.still fail to understand.

but yea y shld u care since the community is so big.make ur own tourney base on ur perfect model. it wont go wrong.it will make the community go into another lvl wat. isnt that what u want? justice?

well mayb for u if u dissatisfied u jst gonna talk abt it. but im diff. if im dissatisfied i take action on it.bcoz action speaks louder than words.

in 5 years time i dun hv to worry abt wat WCG put in anymore. bcoz by that time e-sports will come true in Malaysia.

oh since when i said im the hero? im the only guys that bring up e-sports in Malaysia? did i say that? i hv been working it out for more than 6 years thus i've already know a lot about the ins and outs. there is just so much to learn if other people they just talk talk talk and read stuff in the internet and think hey im brilliant!

knowing and doing is different. thts y i always respect those who put their talk to their action bcoz it is not easy at all. its good to hear that u put up a community. so how many people in it? did u guys join last year wcg?

im asking people who has very brilliant facts and very smart brain to come up and do sumthing. its a waste of time to just arguing on sumthing which hard to b proven rather than bring it into action. at least the effort will inspire others to come forward to join the effort.

it was a general reference to many people who has been doin that in the forum so many years.

and i dun really care about ppl giving me respect or not. either they wan to respect me or not its up to them. i always respect everyone except for those who just noe talk only.

i am not here to make ppl happy or to like me or to respect me. im here to make sure e-sports will b true in Malaysia for that is my dream.

lol wat? obviously this guy doesnt noe how to play DOA4.

if u spam combos without even timing and understanding, u will definitely gonna easily get counter. And the counter system is much more complicated then just pushing 1 button to counter. to counter low,middle and high punch is diff.to counter low,middle and high kick is diff.

DOA has a simple concept but hard to master.

and u guys mst hv nvr seen people like tetra or sarafan or those pro ppl play.they dun use gamepad. they use arcade stick. i mean real arcade stick. but judging that u put up a DOA female version to compare i can understand why.

u really google for facts.im impress.but in case u miss the true way of playing DOA and it was in tht forum as well here it is:


lol and its funny to me u manage to find the post abt people who said DOA sux without solid prove but miss the above. why?coz ur googling for facts to support ur own pov but i think the best way is for u to try it. obviously those who say they prefer DOA got bash just like if someone say they prefer DOTA. oh not saying u one of them.just an example.

try to read what onslaught and gslip88 said and the 3rd last post. of coz they got bash back coz they r in the wrong crowd.

u said u not keras kepala. how come u miss that? oh i nvr been to that forum b4. so i nvr knew anything until u show it up. funny to me u miss it.

but the best way to understand a game if its good or not is to try it. thts y i play lots of diff titles. i dun go in forum see if tht game is gd or not or what the general masses think. i try it out.

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Added on April 20, 2009, 12:06 pm
do u understand what is management?

management covers the backbone of an organization. it covers systems,finance,operation,PR and etc etc.

they oversee it,make a budget to overcome it, and go for it. thts wht they hv been doing every year.

the others, they didnt do that.

This post has been edited by Rin @ si_jali: Apr 20 2009, 12:06 PM