If you're just looking in the city, all you have is Harvey Norman and d*** Smith. That is the sad reality.

If you want parts, the only place to be is www.umart.com.au, www.msy.com.au and www.gocomp.com.au.

Yes, the only thing I miss about Malaysia is the food and the range of consumer technology. We're rubbish at everything else.

I wouldn't call adrian7386 rich. The Honda Jazz is about $17,000 in Australia. That's just under RM50,000 at the current exchange rates. The same car in Malaysia would cost you about RM110,000.

A$17,000 is less than the university tuition fees most of us pay a year.

Okay guys, we need to differentiate between Undergraduate and Postgraduate courses.

In the context of an Undergraduate, generally there is very little between the universities. You are not "researching". Everything you do has been done before, has been learnt before, you are not the first person to do what you have chosen to do.

That said, different universities have strengths. ANU may be no 1 (or no 2, depending on where you look), but it will be one of the last places I will go for a Computer Science degree. This is not to say their Computer Science is inferior: as a matter of fact it probably is better than the many mickey mouse computer science courses that plague Malaysia. My point is, while most employers favor graduates from specific universities in different states (RMIT in Victoria, UQ and QUT in Queensland, UWA and Murdoch in WA are some examples thrown up by the Candle ICT Survey), it is not the final decision maker.

Personally, there are many other factors one has to take into account when deciding where to study. The institution is only one variable. Adelaide University is more established than most universities members of this thread attend, yet I know some people who will balk at going there, simply because its in Adelaide.


Post-graduates on the other hand, are a different kettle of fish altogether. The institution of your choice will determine whether you get funding, how much weight your research gets, how much help will you get for your research, what kind of supervisor you get (trust me, having a PhD student with me has sworn me off academic research). In this context, a university like ANU might be the better choice, with its (general) reputation of research, will more likely than not be easier to get funding compared to if you went to (say) CQU.

If you want to see the bigger picture, then maybe the US might be better for academic research, as they indeed have a culture of university philanthropy, far better than Australia. But again, it all depends on the institution. PhD students actually are quite padded in Australia. The university gives them a grant and a scholarship, if CSIRO takes an interest you get more money, one can apply to Universities Australia for grants, and even the states/corporations will chip in if it catches their eye. (One of my seniors got use of the Telstra NextG network for studying the mating calls of Koala's with mic's attached to them and relaying the calls via the NextG network to their server.)

And the best part of all that is, its all tax free!




So is the land of down under the right choice? Depends. Is Digi really "always the smarter choice"?

Well maybe if you did more research, you'd discover that Bond is a PRIVATE university in Australia.

The vast majority, if not all, students in this thread are studying in PUBLIC institutions in Australia, which like IPTA's in Malaysia, are funded by the government. Bond does not get a cent from the Australian Federal government (okay, if you wanted to split hairs, they like any other university do get grants and some QLD money does make its way into their books). Thus, domestic Australian students pay a fair bit, and international students pay a whole lot more.

Secondly, it would have helped if you mentioned which Bachelor degree you looked at, but Bond does not have the same calendar as other publicly funded universities in QLD (university calendars, while similar, have variations across the different Australian states). Importantly, they have 3 semesters in a year, in contrast to the usual 2 (excluding summer semesters which most people do not take). I will not go to the extent of saying "People must be studying like robots", but it is tight. So a summer break is not really on the timetable.

Finally, while it may cost a lot, one has to keep in mind that if you survive you do get a degree in a significantly shorter period of time (shaving up to 2 years and 3 months for their LLB compared to other law schools in QLD). That is an incentive for many.

Whoa whoa whoa!

Let's make a distinction here: are we talking about Monash Melbourne/Curtin Perth, or the many Monash branch campuses around the globe, and Curtin Miri?

Monash Melbourne and Curtin Perth are publicly funded IN AUSTRALIA. Their branch campuses, while part of the home campus in Australia, are private institutions in Malaysia. There is no way that the Malaysian Federal government is going to fund a foreign university in Malaysia. And no government will ever fund a university not on its home soil where the bulk of the students do not pay taxes to them.

Swinburne Sarawak, Curtin Miri, Nottingham Malaysia, and soon-to-be Newcastle (the UK one) Iskandar Johor are all commercial ventures. For the (in their home countires) 2nd tier universities like Swinburne and Curtin, it is a matter of survivial. They know they cannot survive (not in the world of academia and rankings at least) with their home students, and since this is the Studying in Australia thread, in the Australian context they will never be able to compete with the Go8, for better or worst.

This is not to say that Swinburne and Curtin are inferior in any way: its just that they cannot compete with much more established universities with bigger research departments. As the developing world (read: us) gets richer, they will want more. Case in point: there are no lack of students queuing up for Melbourne University, even if their fees are generally 20% higher than the other Go8 universities, never mind the others. When you are left with the dregs, you end up like CQU.

In the meantime, there are no lack of people who would love an (amongst others) Australian education, but they do not have the means, financial or otherwise, to come physically to Australia and live here for an extended period of time. That is the void (read: untapped market) that all the many foreign campuses want to take advantage off.

It is a commercial venture. Monash Malaysia, Curtin Miri, Swinburne Sarawak, Nottingham Malaysia (I could go on, but I'll stop here) would not exist if there was not a business case.

Naturally, it does bring problems, such as Monash Malaysia's MBBS program: recognised by the AMC, but Malaysian citizens studying a MBBS in Monash Malaysia do not have the right to work in Australia, unlike their counterparts in Monash Clayton. A compromise has to be found between standards and price (read: lowered). There is a shortage of suitably qualified students, but no lack of students with money but not the academic grades.

To avoid the "Why is education so expensive? We're just cash cows" arguement here, let me just say this: free education is all but a footnote in this era. The days of Gough Whitlam are over. Many International students benefited from his abolishment tertiary school fees in his time. Just like how many of our grandparents benefited from free British education under Clement Attlee. But history has shown it is not sustainable on the long run.

Not for international students. For domestic home students maybe yes.

Which is why Melbourne University charges about 20% more for the same qualification in other Go8 universities where International students are concerned. Its a different story for domestic students. Just grabbing the numbers for a Bachelor of Engineering in UQ, QUT and Melbourne, Commonwealth supported places:

UQ = $3704/semester
QUT = $3577/semester
Melb = $3790/semester

(Note: Yes, I know Melb is phasing out their Engineering degree, and the fee's increase every year, and it is dependant on what subjects you take in a semester, but this should give a overall view)

Thank you member jae for pointing that out. "Nonsense" is spelt without a dash through.

KVReninem, I know there are many criticisms of the so-called "Melbourne model", but I do not agree that "no matter how lousy are you; you are still able to go with money".

The whole concept of the "Melbourne model" was never to "upgrade standards". It was a brave new system in following the US system in the Australian framework. The idea is that you produce more rounded students, so to speak, instead of out of high school and straight into something.

Also, they realised they were not getting the "best" students for particular courses. Yes, these fresh high school graduates had the TER cut-off, but it does not mean they were well suited for the degree. I make the cut for accounting, but I know I would be a very bad accounting student. The concept was to channel people into a general undergraduate degree, and (hopefully) after one is more mature, they can choose their career path with better understanding.

As I said, this is new, and it is hard to judge. In the same way it is impossible to determine the quality of all the private medical schools springing up like mushrooms after a rain in Malaysia, one cannot say the "Melbourne model" is good or bad, a success or a failure, before the first batch has even graduated.

If you don't like it, you don't have to participate in it. There are no lack of people queuing up after you.

That said, I have to admit, the greatest beneficiaries of the "Melbourne model" are the "typical" Asians, who go for the "soft" subjects like Economics, Business etc.


This post has been edited by haya: Sep 1 2009, 09:23 PM

As member hihihehe has pointed out, it is the same for all international students regardless of country. If you get in, UKM's Electrical Engineering fees are really cheap. For domestic Malaysian citizens only pay RM1200/year in fees. An international student would have to pay RM7100/year in fees. Keep in mind that a significant majority of international students come from places like Indonesia/China/Botswana, and 20,372,180.41 Rupiah/13,751.62 Remminbi/13,771.86 Pulas' must be a hell lot of money to them.

How many Malaysians know that?

And local Malaysians have access to PTPTN (thats Perbadanan Tabung Pendidikan Tinggi Nasional folks), and it even covers IPTS'es! Try getting HECS when you're enrolled in Bond University. (Through on the sidelines, if you're a "bumiputera" of Australia you can get ABSTUDY even in private institutions.) Sure, repayments will "cost" you RM500/month, but look at how many people get away with it. And even our Dear Ministers think that the top students should be exempted from paying the PTPTN loan. Try arguing to the ATO that you shouldn't pay up because your CGPA was 7 in university.

Not that HECS is without criticism.

Unfair? Ask your own government, why, after a working lifetime of paying taxes, your parents need to fork out even more to send you for an education?



ps. BTW member Grimm, you think too highly of yourself. I can assure you that the Go8 and to a lesser extent, the ATN universities are not going to go bankrupt/cut student intake even if international students dried up overnight. The ones complaining the loudest are the 3rd tier universities, TAFE's, Colleges, dodgy or otherwise, and the research academics who moan they do not have the facilities for their research.

This post has been edited by haya: Sep 1 2009, 09:25 PM

Hence why Griffith of sometimes called "The university for the 3rd world", a play on QUT's slogan "A university for the real world".

But I digress. It is true that Asians (read: international students) tend to gravitate towards the soft courses like Business, Economics, Finance etc, which is why QUT's Business faculty is like going to Asia. Hence my observation that "typical Asians" are probably one of the biggest beneficiaries of the Melbourne Model.

I cannot say for others, but in QLD CQU probably has the highest proportion of international students: almost 70% of their student population. Again, it all depends on which faculty and you course you are in. I'm the only Asian in my law tutorial, and I would think most of the Asians in the law faculty would be Australian born (read: citizens).

Finally, if you look at the website hihihehe posted, Swinburne and Curtin also have very high proportions of international students, no doubt because of their Kuching and Miri campuses.

And it is quite possible to get a RMIT and Adelaide University degree without ever stepping foot on Australian soil, which I suppose skews the data a bit.

Guys, for gods sake, we have gone down the "Should International student fares get concession fares" debate all before. We don't have to rehash everything.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=15855656

My tutorials were cancelled and all consultation times are off. That said, "A single-day stoppage isn't likely to be highly disruptive". So don't hope your assignments are given extra time.

It is precisely this type of posts that I do not want to see in this thread. People who have not done any homework, rocking up to the thread, asking questions that have been answered in this thread previously.

We do not need your comments on how nice spring is. You will have many of them in your course of your studies.

We do not need to know how fast your ice cream melts.

We do not need to know that you have a lot of work to do.

We do not need to comment on every single post that has happened in this thread since your last posting.

We do not need people who clearly can't read the front page.

How is this post helpful to anyone when the author clearly has problem articulating their point. If you didn't know how to swim, would go jump into the ocean to save someone who is drowning?

What value does this post have to anyone considering studying or currently studying in Australia?

Do we really need to hear how the semester has been for you? If everyone commented on how hard university is, how does one separate the chaff from the wheat? The Studying in Australia thread is not the Students studying in Australia who need motivation thread. If you need motivation to study from complete strangers who may or may not exist I would suggest you check your priorities.

Do we need to explain the obvious? See also.

No, I would not like to see a case of "resident evil" in Malaysia.

The university has good support structures. If you have any academic issues, not complete strangers who may or may not be in the same institution as you.

I am already very tolerant of of event advertising. Remember, Australia is a big country. How is something in Melbourne supposed to help someone in (say) Adelaide?


What I really hate about Malaysians is the whole "I am a pioneer", aka "We don't learn from the mistakes of others" attitude. Case in point? KL's public transportation system. On a smaller scale, asking the same questions over and over again. As we all know, it is a bit of work reading through 100+ pages of a thread, never mind the tl;dr generation.

There are very few things we do as students that no one else has done before. You can either stumble blindly along, making the same mistakes every generation makes, or you can learn from what people have done before you, avoid their pitfalls and practice the things that work. Your choice.

The front page is meant to be a basic guide. It is a living, breathing document, subject to changes when new information comes along. But for some reason many people have trouble reading it. And instead keep asking questions that have been answered before. And their excuse? "I can't read so many pages".

And Malaysians ask Why can't we become a developed country?. Well guess what? One of the traits of a developed country is the ability to learn from the mistakes of others, and not "say out the views about something you dont know"

Bonus content: I have a feeling if I could write some SQL for pulling out data in this thread, I would get some pretty interesting statistics.

This post has been edited by haya: Sep 16 2009, 03:21 PM

http://www.rmit.edu.au/browse;ID=oenklct8l57q

Most universities will accept many mediums. I know different people who paid their first semester fees with Credit Cards, Telegraphic Transfer, and bank drafts.

Personally, Credit Cards are the best way. Probably the safest and has the best rates. (Bank drafts can get lost in the mail, TT rates are not the best).

If lawl wants to pay his 1st semester fees with a bank draft, the way to do it is:
1) Monash = http://www.monash.edu.au/fees/payment/methods.html
Doesn't seem they take bank drafts directly. I am happy to be corrected through.

2) U of Adelaide = http://www.adelaide.edu.au/student/finance/payoptions/
3) UWA = http://www.studentadmin.uwa.edu.au/welcome...ional_students)
No mention of bank drafts.

I find that Australian banks aren't that rigid as M'sian banks. I've had drafts where my name was mis-spelled, the bank was still quite happy to accept it.

One word: don't. I made my reservations about Low cost carriers to Australia by first time students clear when I wrote out the front page.

To Perth wouldn't be too bad, but to Adelaide is pushing it, and it is rough to Melbourne. Once you add in the cost of luggage, it works out to be about only 20-30% cheaper than a conventional airline.

When you're paying $20,000 a year in fees, what's a few tenner's?

http://www.hsbc.com.au/1/2/misc/atm-reform-faq

ɐısʎɐ|ɐɯ ɟo p|ıɥɔ pǝɟ uoods 'ɐısʎɐ|ɐɯ ɟo p|ıɥɔ pǝɟ uoods

This post has been edited by haya: Oct 1 2009, 06:23 AM

As much as I disagree with limeuu's opinion, the fact of the matter is, there are more than a small number of students, who with 1 result (let's just say a TER of 95 and going for a LLB for arguments sake) applying to different universities, get accepted by some and rejected by others.

With a TER of 95, you will get rejected by U Syd, Monash Melbourne (and maybe others). With the same TER, you will get into UQ, QUT, Adelaide and I think UWA (I'm not exhaustive). Same score, same Go8 (bar one) that people seem to love harping on, same LLB.

If we apply the law of demand/supply, then U Syd/Monash Melbourne can afford to get those in the upper quartile, ie. those with TER's >99. I know people who got a TER of 95.8 and doing a LLB in UQ. It is still easier to get into U Syd, Monash Melbourne (who take in the, say, 0.1% of applicants) than UQ who take in the, say, 1% of applicants).

That said, easier to get in does not equal lower standards or inferiority. Up to a point.

My point is, there is a division. Its just the lines may be a bit blurry. Some of my peers back in M'sia scoff that I'm in QUT instead of UQ (most of them don't even know it exists), but in my experience that I'm no worst off than my peers (I know too many UQ people for a QUT student ''') on the other side of town, so to speak.

Limeuu would put QUT in the 2nd tier, and I will agree on the fact that the 2 institutions, compared in isolation, are not on the same level. I will agree that QUT does take in people with lower cut-offs than UQ into many courses. However, I do not think I have a "worser" education in QUT.

To classify 1st tier/2nd tier may be unfair, but isn't that what M'sian's love, constantly coming in here and asking "Which university is the best for [insert particular course]?

Entry requirements do reflect, to an extent(its a bit like a twisted form of the law of diminishing returns) on the quality of the course (see USQ's LLB). Eventually you do get to the bottom of the barrel, and no amount of limiting students (supply) can fix that.

And U Syd and UNSW good universities? Yes they are. But which metric do you think, rightly or wrongly, does international student who has both offers, uses to decide?

You want to change the opinion/metric? chris_c28, I tried to change the culture of lowyat.net members on one, single individual thread, and guess what I got?

By definition, en suite means having a bathroom/toilet attached to your room. Non-en suite means you'll have to walk out of your room to use a communal toilet. It is common in student hostel accommodation.

How can a landlord blacklist you when you did nothing wrong?

The contract you signed was for a set period of time, which means if you (say) signed a 12 month contract, you are obliged to pay 12 months of rent. If after 9 months you decide to leave the place, you will loose your bond (usually 1 months rent) and will be blacklisted. Leaving 3 months before you lease is up is technically a breach of contract.

Either tough it out, or find someone to replace you before you move out.

I can't say for B.Arts, however I do know a B.Arts/B.IT double degree student in UQ. She's happy, and loves her B.Arts there, so I would guess it is a good bet.

That said, don't make a decision based on that sentence, and do some of your own research, What are you expecting to get out of a B.Arts?

Personally I would say any institution would be okay really. There is little to distinguish between UQ, Griffith, Bond or RMIT. I would rank other factors such as cost of living, social connections etc more important that the institution.

You will be too late for the February intake. I doubt AS results would be sufficient, however check with the individual institutions. (That means picking up the phone, sending an email etc, rather than asking a group of strangers on the internet which may or may not exist) Maybe AS would be enough for a B.Arts.

People who do A-levels would usually slot into the UK system. Trying to fit into the Australian/NZ system usually means you will loose about half a year waiting for the next intake.

Where do such ridiculous statements come from? That might be true in critical courses such as a MBBS (I am happy to be proven otherwise), but I highly doubt that ANY institution would blacklist you applying for the next intake just because you couldn't make the first offer they gave you.

Note there is no such thing as "reject the offer" per se. You will get a offer letter, and if the institution does not get your reply within the set deadline, they assume you will not be taking up their offer. That applies to late/lost/misdirected replies etc.

You'll be out of sync with the rest of your peers.

Some of the pro's are: smaller classes, a potential sense of close knitness within the 2nd semester intake group, anecdotal evidence suggests markers may be more lenient, less fighting over limited copies of library books.

Cons? Your course structure will be a bit different from the Feb intake group. Not all subjects are offered in both semesters, so generally if you deviate from the course structure outline (failed a subject etc) you will have a bit of juggling to do.

And I'm not sure if this is a pro or a con, but generally the June intake has more mature age students. That generally decides the "atmosphere", in a way. Until your subjects more or less get in sync with the Feb intake.

(Disclaimer: Most of that is written from a non-B.Arts student perspective, so your mileage may vary)

This post has been edited by haya: Oct 27 2009, 08:10 AM

Since Sicarius is just a Form 5 student in the Malaysian education system, I persume his definition of "local newspaper" is a Malaysian one.

http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v5/newsworld.php?id=447391
http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.php/ct/...id/555273/cs/1/

See also: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/natio...mp/1654081.aspx

What was actually said:
http://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search...rec=1;resCount=
http://www.aph.gov.au/hansard/reps/dailys/dr191009.pdf (see page 63 of the document)

A suggestion is not policy. And unless Sicarius can tell us which paper and article he was referring to, all this is just speculation, and this is the STUDYING in Australia thread, NOT the "I'm going to study in Australia in hope of getting a Permanent Residency like the never ending stream of Mainland Chinese thread"