Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Malaysian Dota Scene Administration., Rankings updated @ 14 May 2010

views
     
baowen
post Jan 5 2009, 07:22 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,048 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
From: Klang


QUOTE(underminer @ Jan 3 2009, 10:59 PM)
I would bias towards the player's new team based on number of players from the old team. Say Team A decided to leave its current sponsor of Team A. Their new name Team B will be replacing "Team A" in the rankings unless stated otherwise by an outside settlement which will need to be communicated via pm to me.

But if negotiations can be conducted for both sides to ensure a better settlement. The old team might just be left there for sometime and both parties start afresh with new team names if a settlement cant be agreed. However, after a settlement is made, the new team with its new roster will be assumed from the settlement date onwards. In other words, future "roster" of the team will be based on the new roster from the settlement period onwards.
*
Let say a big tournament which have total prize of 20k is going to held in this week.... current top 1 ranking team
"assume as team ABC" only have the leader himself in the team... other 4 was new recruit... while other 4 "former" team ABC make a new team XYZ and join this tournament... so, now team ABC remain as top 1 in ur ranking system or team XYZ ??
I think you know current malaysia dota scene.. almost every tournament will have player jumping from team A to B or other way round.. and they are top team too... whats the solution for this ?? if follow the thing you say.. this ranking system no longer accurate and may happen Strong team vs Strong at early stage. Since the prize pool is 20k.. top 8 will have prize... so it is fair for team XYZ because they should have seeded.. not team ABC.... hope you know what i am trying to say, and it's a problem you need to solve before you run this ranking system...

erm... it's manually count or automatic ?
baowen
post Jan 6 2009, 09:11 PM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,048 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
From: Klang


QUOTE(underminer @ Jan 5 2009, 10:15 PM)
The ranking system serves as a guideline for seedings to be done by the organisers. I highly doubt organisers will follow the ranking system 100% in their seedings based on my past experiences.

Referring back to your example, as an organiser of this 20k tournament, I would seed Team XYZ in place of the "former team ABC" as the top ranked team in Malaysia in my brackets due simply to the fact that they have 4 of the last known members of "team ABC" in the rankings. The rankings only will be updated after the tournament is over, as such seedings in important tournament like this should be done with in depth knowledge of the scene in which many here would be ready to share if asked politely.
As the ranking maker, the teams will have the responsibility to approach me via pm for a settlement on the issue with me heavily biased replacing "team XYZ" to "team ABC" in the rankings due to the fact they had more than 3 of their former members in the team. Unless both sides agree to the current status quo with "team XYZ " starting afresh, the default situation will be to replace "team ABC" to "team XYZ" in the rankings and "team ABC starting afresh in the rankings.

The Malaysian Dota Scene is as vibrant as the international one with team loyalties can be bought or traded with the turn of the thought or the start of a petty argument over a single solitary pub-game. The default solution will be the "3 player rule" of the last participating tournament team roster that will be applied. Issues will arise when the "3 player rule" cant be applied such as a split of 2-2 and 5th player retiring. If this happens, the teams will have the responsibility to contact me of a settlement for the ranking system or both teams that start with new names will be started afresh in the rankings while their old team name will be "freezed" in the rankings until former team members of the team decides to reactivate it with the blessings of 3 of the last 5 tournament participating players of that team bearing that name.

The rankings is manually done on an excel sheet in which it will be looked through by independent team managers or players that requested it via pm with their email attached. The forum system did not allow me to upload an Excel file.

The UC_PRO case has been resolved with UC_PRO Tbun w4si claiming all the points at SMM 2008 with their new name UC_PRO in the rankings with blessings from w4si founder and manager Lucifer.

The full list of tournaments counted in this ranking to date are :

1. SGNDT last 16
2. QUAS
3. Borneo
4. Invasion

I fully understood the risk of making a ranking system in a subjective team game of Dota. That is why I try to involve as many people as I can in making it along the way. This project boils down to be my way to see which teams are the best in Malaysia and hopefully will boost participation of tournaments by encouraging teams to fight for a higher rank in a tangible predictable ranking system.
*
your solution should be what Odin say.. If your system is run what odin say... no problem would occur.
But if what you say you would seed Team XYZ rather then Team ABC... it would be unfair... as i said... Team ABC held up of the leader and 4 new player... while team XYZ is the former team ABC 4 player.. So, The team leader of ABC should give up his point what he have done so far.. (" he is the team leader") and give the current top 1 ranking to team XYZ, it's so unfair...
for more clear comparison, Team ABC = Team SK which have Loda, and 4 new recruit player, while the team XYZ = bogdan,Halo,Kwom,Akke and etc ( i duno their teammate name sorry ), so would you seed team XYZ instead of team ABC ?? as we know team ABC without Loda is nothing... so ? what would people think if you seed team XYZ but not ABC, will player obey the way you seed them ?? ( assume organizer 100% follow your seeding system )

QUOTE(Odin` @ Jan 6 2009, 09:50 AM)
Well the problem with players jumping from team to team can be solved by dividing those points among all the 5 players.
What underminer is trying to do is to protect sponsors from losing all the points they built up for their home team, but as far as i know its really difficult to keep players.

Therefore, if you want an accurate point system, the points should be divided by all 5 OR 6 members of the team. However, your excel file will be huge smile.gif In the end we might even get points for 3v3 or 1v1 and we will be able to know who is the TOP dota player in Malaysia  thumbup.gif
*
It is hard if he using excel to doing this system because done manually would mess up alot of thing when 1 team have 5~6 data need to watch, and if team disband the point count need to summarize again.... it take alot of time...

Honestly say, this system is my Degree project, but i failed to do it.. so i hope some one would actually complete it... it's really benefit to our e-sport community.
baowen
post Jan 8 2009, 09:18 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,048 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
From: Klang


create something new is always hard... to maintain the new thing... it would be more hard... i think this phrase is quite famous (sorry for the direct translation, my English standard is low)
"3 man majority" rule is a good definition for a team, but it's still not that accurate as well,
Case study time again.... Kingsurf team(lineup for ESWC Grand final in san jose), if yamateh and papaxiong remain in the kingsurf team, the remain 3 people have create a new team, would you seed the new create team name Kingsurf2 instead of kingsurf ?? because it's fulfill your "3 man majority" rule. Sound weird right?

The suggestion i will give is,
-Team A win Category A tournament, and Team A earn 9200point as a Team point.
-Team A 5 player, earn 9200point as well, 9200/5 = 1840point for each player (if the team have sub, then it divide by 6 player)
-Team A currently have Team point 9200 + Player point 9200 = Total of 18400point.

So when Team A split in the next tournament, Team A still have his Team point and would not affect too much, unless the Team A use the different 5 players.
When it come to the SK team case study, Team A still have 9200 + 1840point = 11040point, the new team B will have 7360point.

At least, the Team A would have some point, even Team A won't be Top 1 now, but at least it will remain at top 3 rank.
This is my suggestion for you to make a better point system. the point need make some adjustment, this part is a bit tricky, my maths was not good, so i think i leave it to you.

When the next tournament is going, Team A ("suppose to be rank 1 in the system"), because of change player, they become rank 3 now, if this tournament they didn't enter quarter-final, then minus their team point as penalty because since they are seeded as rank 3, they should have the "quality" to enter quarter final.



baowen
post Apr 24 2009, 02:30 AM

Regular
******
Senior Member
1,048 posts

Joined: Aug 2006
From: Klang


wow... a lot of update, nice job underminer
seems that a bit hard for you, have to do manually.
The ideal of malaysia dota ranking system is, can come up with a system which can count the point automatically once the organizer/administrator upload the result of the tournament. The website should contain, auto ranking system + personal&team profile(like mym website), any team changes their roster have to inform the system administration ( which is underminer ) to make sure the point didn't go to wrong person/team. player have to register an account in the website in order to let the system able to keep track on you, team/player who didn't create/register their "own ass" in the system are counted as "give up" in this ranking system, which may result you didn't enjoy the benefit of seeding. ( before this, need organizer recognize this ranking system as their main referral for generating bracket )

there still a lot thing can be done, like auto generating the bracket for organizer, schedule the tournament for the organizer. make until organizer just sponser prize money + pc + place, while the system do the rest. ( all the admin stuff, for example: registration, bracket, schedule all done by the system. ).

this will create less conflict, like whenever player mention that didn't see their name/team on the list, it might be they didn't create an account at the website at all ( or force player have to create an account in the website in order to participate the tournament.)

Thank for reading all these bullshit, because i know it quite hard to happen when it involve in money smile.gif
RM10k should be sufficient to setup the system + webhosting + encourage player to create profile in the website...... for example icon_rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(revivar @ Mar 3 2009, 04:43 AM)
Aiyo so mahfan. If team-based calculations are messed up due to ever-changing player roster, then just implement an individual point system. Every single game, if a player is in a winning team and achieved something, setup a milestones of comparison and distribute the points evenly. Then, a team consists of any Tom, d*** and Harry will able to be seeded accordingly to their personal achieved points.
*
To avoid sponser team gain nothing at all when the team disband, for example, if follow your method, current kingsurf 5 player leave kingsurf sponser and create a new team call underminer team. underminer team will counted as rank no.3 now and kingsurf team will treated as "new" team if they join the upcoming tourney with different 5 player. The method where underminer using is to protect player and team itself, if you got gone through the previous post, you should know about it.



 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0230sec    0.36    6 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 2nd December 2025 - 05:40 AM