i suggest you buy the new stream. you can get white colour for stream. isn't it?my neighbour bought the new stream last month, white colour. he tinted it with black colour tint and replace the original sport rims with the new black 17" alloy rims. the car looks very nice. he also plans to customize his car with mugen aerokit.

This post has been edited by 931002: Dec 29 2008, 01:34 AM

have you read my comparisons between accord and mazda 6? isn't ok?

yes, modulo grille looks very nice. but , unfortunately, our HM city does have that. i have booked the car. ASM colour. 1.5 e. the sales man said , i can receive my car on April next year. what a long, long waiting list.

CITY 1.5E (RM89,980) vs LATIO 1.6 PREMIUM (RM92,929)

1. Engine: city- 1.5 SOHC 120ps 145nm
latio- 1.6 DOHC 109ps 153nm
2. Transmission: city - 5speed auto with paddle shift
latio- 4speed auto
3. Steering type: city- electronic power steering
latio- electronic power steering
4. Suspension: city- front MacPherson strut, rear Torsion Beam
latio- front MacPherson strut, rear Torsion Beam
5. Brakes: city- disc brake front and rear
latio- front disc brake, rear drum brake
6. Dimensions: city- length: 4395mm
width: 1715mm
height:1470mm
wheelbase: 2550mm
ground clearance: 150mm
curb weight: 1160kg
latio- length: 4415mm
width: 1695mm
height: 1535mm
wheelbase: 2600mm
ground clearance: 160mm
curb weight: 1154kg
7. Tire size: city- 185/55r16
latio- 185/65r15
8. Head lamps: city- halogen
latio- halogen
9. Side mirror with turnig lights: city- available
latio- none
10. 4 reverse sensor: city- available
latio- 2 sensors only
11. Leather steering wheel: city- available
latio- available
12. Paddle shift: city- available
latio- none
13. USB connector: city- available
latio- none
14. ABS, EBD, and BA: city- available
latio- available
15. Dual airbags: city- available
latio- available
16. Body colours: city- blue, black, PMM, silver, beige
latio- silver, gray, black, red, white
17. Turning radius: city- 5.0m
latio- 5.2m
18. Steering wheel with audio control: city- available
latio- none

whats wrong with SOHC engine? what honda wants to show is that they can built high output engine eventhough they use SOHC engine. 1.5 SOHC, 120PS AND 174NM.anyway, can vios produce HIGH output if its engine SOHC? toyota relied on older technology because the company wants to cut cost. if you see high quality toyota models like LEXUS, the cars have a lot of new technology but the price is exorbitant. thus, LEXUS lose to other "orang putih" cars like merc and bmw. besides, toyota always design its car with old design with big, big square-shaped headlamps and the car does look sleek. etc. camry and altis. the grille always too big like old merc 70's. at the end of the day, people get tired and prefer more aerodynamic cars like honda and mazda. even merc has change its style. old merc looks like a box, but the new merc(etc. cls350) is sleeker and has modern design with its stylish headlamps. anyway, every people has their own taste. one can buy toyota and one can buy other type of japanese-made cars. however, nowadays, all new civic can be seen easily on the road compare to all new altis.

This post has been edited by 931002: Dec 30 2008, 11:49 PM

Modern SOHC Honda engine is proven better than old technology Toyota DOHC.
Accord R20A SOHC engine produce nearly 10ps output higher than Toyota DOHC engine (148ps). Even though the new accord is havier than Camry, the 0-100 time is faster than Camry. This clearly shows that Honda SOHC engine is better than Camry DOHC engine.

Honda replaces its K20A DOHC 2003 Accord engine with newly developed R20A SOHC engine on Accord 2008. This new R20A engine has a lot of advantages over the old K20A engine. Some of the advantages of the R20A engine is:
1. Light weight
2. Higher output (156ps compared with 150ps on K20A)
3. Higher torque (189nm compared with 186nm on K20A)
4. Smaller in dimension
5. More efficient (less mechanical frictions loss due to less camshaft)
6. Variable length intake manifold to spread torque over the entire RPM range,
7. Integrated exhaust manifold to reduced space.
8. New i-VTEC technology that control the amount of fuel by controling the valve
opening and closing timing instead of using trottle valve in a conventional
engine. This will reduce pumping loses which will make the engine more
efficient.
9. Coated cylinder block to futher reduce friction loses.
10. Oil jet to cool piston which enabled the engine to run on higher compression
ratio (higher output without need to use higher octane number fuel).
11. Additional air flow sensor on both intake and exhaust to precisely control the
exhaust emmision for a more environmental friendly engine.
12. And many more....

Conclusion:
Honda main target is to constantly improving their product to satisfy their customer and environment. Not like Toyota, they still use the old technology engine so that they can cut cost and offer cheap cosmetic items to their customer just to attract old minded and old tech customer as long as they can sell their product. (eg: Avanza and Inova still use cheap non-independant rear suspension (axle type same as lorry and old van), Camry still use cheap macpherson type front suspension, WISH still use rear non-independant beam suspension same as old Iswara. Vios, Altis, Avanza, Inova, Wish and Camry still use 4 speed auto transmission, all Hondas are already use 5 speed. All this Toyota tricks are not well known to their old minded and old tech customer in malaysia.

Think again.....

For your info, Dual VVTI is just an additional unit of VVTI system installed on the other set of camshaft for DOHC engine (mean that both camshafts (intake and exhaust) has variable valve and timing) . There is nothing special about that. (Another tricks from Toyota) . It is not a new technology at all. The dual VVTI system is not installed on a low to middle price car to cut cost. If you are not sure about the system go and ask people who know well about it. Dont just listen to the Toyota salesman.

Do you know what is ECT?. ECT stands for Electronic Control Transmission. Nowdays every car in the world use ECT or Electronic Control Transmission except for a very cheap car like Kancil (still use mechanical / hydraulic control). Even old proton Waja already use ECT for their gearbox. (Another trick from Toyota) . My previous Accord (1987 model) already use ECT gearbox. Electronic control transmission (AKA ECT) is actualy a mechanical gearbox which is electronically controlled by ECU. By using this type of gearbox, engineer can easily program the gearbox operations by simply program the ECU according to the car and engine behaviour.
Again there is nothing special about ECT or Super ECT by Toyota, the only different is how the engineer programmed it. If you dont know or not sure, please ask the people who knows about it.

Think again.......
Happy new year!!!!!

people who prefer 4AT camry, altis, and vios are also non-sense and stubborn. they do not know how to choose between the good and the better..

This post has been edited by 931002: Jan 1 2009, 08:47 PM

To make a good NVH car, is very simple. All you need is to use soft spring, soft shocks, soft bushing, soft body, soft tire and a lot of sound proofing material. Do you think mitsubishi evo is a silent car? or mitsubishi don't know how to make a silent car? or only toyota knows how to make a silent car?. The design of any car is a compromise between a good handling, ride comfort, and cost. Any car maker can make a good NVH car with good handling, it just a matter of how you want the car to be an how much you are going to sell it. If a car maker want to make good NVH and good handling car in one package they have to use additional systems such as air suspension, auto adaptive shock absorber and some other thing which will make the car more expensive. Toyota's tricks is to use soft spring (easily sag when fully loaded / high body roll), soft bushing (poor handling / poor straight line stability / shorten bushing life), soft shock absorber (high body roll, bumpy) and a lot of sound proofing material (which is cheaper option) to most of their car just to attract buyers and most of Toyota buyers think that the Toyota suspension is the best.



Think again........

For your info, city and vios use the same type of suspension (MacPherson strut), the only different is vios suspension is slightly softer than city, so there is no issue of which one is better or 'tahan lasak'. But if you compare accord and camry suspension, both are totally different. Camry uses conventional MacPherson strut while accord uses more expensive DoubleWishbones suspension.

Think again....

Number of car sold per year is not a true indications of whether the company is good car maker. Proton / perodua is selling a lot as well in Malaysia. Do you think that BM, Merc or Ferrari is a bad company even though the number of car they can sell per year is less?. Toyota offer a wide range of vehicle in Malaysia (Vios, Avanza, Altis, Inova, camry, Hilux, Wish, Rush, Estima, Alphard and many more model). Compare to Honda, the vehicle they offered is very limited. Honda never produce low quality vehicle. Commercialy Toyota is a good company, they know how make vehicle that can sell well. the only thing is they not always offering you a good value for money vehicle (especialy on the low and medium range vehicle in Malaysia e.g Vios, Avanza, Inova, Altis and Camry). Toyota always use a dfferent strategy to attract buyers eg. they offer lether seat, sidemirror with signal light, LED light, a lot of compartment, chrome and wood finisher and some others things which is cheaper but they always refused to offer you a latest engine, suspension, transmission, body design and some others. Honda always offer you the best in technology to date vehicle compare to Toyota in same range of vehicle.

This is the fact. Nobody is going to force you whether you like Honda or Toyota.

Think again..............

Its all depends on you whether you want to pay more on chrome finished, wooden finished, leather seat, LED tail light, side mirror with signal, or you want to pay more for a better engine, better transmission, better suspension and styling....

I just want to tell the fact between the two brands. Thats all. Anyway this is just a discussions, if you feel right just take it, if not just leave it.

This post has been edited by 931002: Jan 3 2009, 01:30 AM

Just for your info....

Variable valve timing and lift technology.

Variable valve timing = to get more torque
Variable valve lift = to get more horse power


HONDA. (1983)
VTEC = Variable valve lift control
i-VTEC = intelligent + Variable valve timing + variable valve lift + variable valve phasing
SOHC VTEC-E = Variable valve lift control to increase fuel economy
SOHC VTEC = variable valve lift on both intake and exhaust valves
3 stage VTEC = SOHC VTEC-E + SOHC VTEC
i-VTEC I = Ultra lean i-VTEC to futher increase fuel economy
Advance i-VTEC = Intelligent + Continuously variable valve lift + timing control + continuously variable phase control

TOYOTA. (1991)
VVT = 2 stage variable valve timing
VVTI = intelligent + variable valve timing only
Dual VVTI = intelligent + variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust
VVTL-I = intelligent + Variable valve timing + variable valve lift (ceased production - does not meet Euro IV emissions requirement)


MITSUBISHI. (1992)
MIVEC = Variable valve timing + variable valve lift on intake valve only
Dual MIVEC = Variable valve timing + variable valve lift on intake and exhaust

MAZDA.
S-VT = Variable valve timing on intake valve only

NISSAN. (1986)
NVSC = Variable valve timing on intake valve only
VVL = Variable valve timing + variable valve lift + variable valve phasing

BMW. (1992)
VANOS = Variable valve timing on intake valve
Double VANOS = Variable valve timing on intake and exhaust valve
Valvetronic = Variable valve lift

MERCEDES
VVT = Variable valve timing on both intake and exhaust valve


Similar System.
Intelligent + Variable valve timing + variable valve lift + variable valve phasing
(Honda I-VTEC) = (Toyota VVTL-I) = (Mitsubishi MIVEC) = (Nissan VVL) = (BMW VANOS + Valvetronic)

Intelligent + Variable valve timing only
(Honda n/a) = (Toyota VVTI) = (Mitsubishi n/a) = (Nissan NVSC) = (BMW VANOS) = (Mercedes VVT) = (Mazda S-VT)



This post has been edited by 931002: Jan 3 2009, 01:47 AM

Anyway, Dugong will be one of the next endangered species soon.