Thanks for the link. Although not specifically for the Klang Valley (as Optiplex wants) I suppose a state-by-state breakdown is the best we can drill down to at this moment.

According to that table 4, out of the Malaysia total of 3498 Selangor has 1046 pharmacists (29.9%) and FT has 660 (18.8%). Means that Selangor and FT combined have nearly half of all the pharmacists in Malaysia.

Good saying.

So if doctors have sufficient pharmacology knowledge, that's not enough for you? In the same way, do you agree to hand pharmacists the dispensing right if their number is only SUFFICIENT?

Because they wanna earn more ma. They jealous doctors earn more than them ma.

The same lousy doctors are trained in med schools which have pharmacy course. So the pharmacists are lousy also.

And as the table shown, about 50% of pharmacists are concentrated in Selangor and FT. So if the trial in KV is a success, how about pharmacists in other areas? More pharmacists will flock into KV if dispensing right is given in KV only. At the same time. other areas will have no more pharmacists liao. So what's the point of having the trial?

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Added on December 19, 2008, 12:10 pmTheir lively hood is not affected at all, as dispensing right is not exclusively doctors'.

BTw, a suggestion to moderator. IF possible, pls move this thread to RWI. It deserves more intelligent inputs from regulars of RWI, instead of some people here posting invalid reasons and going round and round the points we have discussed many many times.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 19 2008, 12:17 PM

Irrelevant. In court proceeding, that is called speculation and not admissible as evidence.

If you want to speculate, how about this. If there are dispensing right, I am sure a lot more people would want to study pharmacy and be a pharmacist. That is free market at work. Told you before but you forgot.

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Added on December 19, 2008, 12:24 pmIs this your idea of more intelligent input? This fellow couldn't give a valid or alternative reason and instead talk about some chill pill.

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Dec 19 2008, 12:25 PM

Are we in the court right now?
We are in a discussion, and i dun see any wrong in trying to predict what will happen next.
Anyway, this is a logical argument. What will be the fate of pharmacists in other areas if dispensing right is only exercised in KV?

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Added on December 19, 2008, 12:26 pmWell, i think many of us agree with him, as you are the most emo one and keep on jumping to your own gun that lives are cheaper in Msia.

So are bomoh and mee goreng relevant in this discussion? Also the name calling and personal attack.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 19 2008, 12:27 PM

What is there to stop more people wanting to do pharmacy and going back to their home town? Then their home town would be so saturated with pharmacist that they too will demanding dispensing right?

See? Speculation works both way.

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Added on December 19, 2008, 12:28 pmShow me the "many" you talked about. Confusing country with KV again, are we?

This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Dec 19 2008, 12:29 PM

Well, when that happens, dispensing right can be handed back to them.
However, i am talking about if dispensing right is only given to pharmacists in KV. IF that happens, will the same pharmacists you mentioned want to go back to their hometown which is not in KV?

Many lor. You wanna start a poll in Kopitiam?

No, not at all. My serotonin increases instead of adrenalin.

Off topic:
Is that you in the avatar? You look Very very rare for both doctors and medical students.

This post has been edited by hypermax: Dec 19 2008, 12:33 PM

Oh, there's no need to put me in the limelight. I've already admitted that I don't understand enough of the status quo to form an opinion against or for this.

That said, I didn't give you a valid or alternative reason, because your question was self-contradicting in itself! You asked, "Why can't we have the best for ourselves?" (where "best" means "duties of dispensing be separated"). I replied, "we have it already, just ask for it and you'll get it".

Again, I'm just laying down the facts

But in real life, is that practical? Tell me. When was the last time anyone went to see private doctor and the doctor, as a matter of routine procedure, will tell the patient they can opt for dispensing by pharmacist? Excluding the situation when the doctor clinic do not have the medicine in question.

When there is separation of dispensing from diagnosis, then it becomes routine to have medicine being dispensed by someone who can double check for potential mistakes. This is the choice we are talking about. Let's not get into hair splitting.

My father does go to the pharmacist to get his monthly dosage of medicine obviously under the doctor's prescription.
That is because it's nearer to our house than going to the specialist center.

I suppose that's more like a follow up.

Please tell us, the very 1st time he got treated by that doctor, did he get it from the doctor or did the doctor offered him a choice?

I doubt if the doctor will voluntarily tell a patient about opting for dispensing by pharmacist. I guess this is where the patient must be informed that the choice is available. But even so, I wonder if the informed patient will choose to get the meds from the doctor or the pharmacist? My guess is that most patients will choose the former.

erm..for me they should know more other than juz enough as there are new pharmaceuticals in the market every year. well maybe the number of pharmacists currently are low but there are steady increase over the last few years, you r rite currently we dont have enough pharmacist but juz for now. Earn more? the docs wan it oso isn't it, well they have the dispensing right but the drugs are not dispense by them but another person.They not really dispense the drugs but they have the rights and earn the money? btw this thread is for discucuss will pharmacist gain dispensing right in Malaysia? but not whether who deserved the right. off topic edi la

I dunnoe whether you are in medical field or not, but not all new drugs will be used, especially in Msia, as new drugs are mostly more expensive than their generic counterpart. And if you read through the previous posts, some pro-pharmacist forummers stated that if pharmacists gain dispensing right, generic or cheaper drugs will be used for often, as there will be less influence from drug companies (which i highly doubt so).

Anyway, this topic is all about whether pharmacists will gain/deserve the dispensing right or not. As i have stated, read the previous posts before you wanna join in the debate.

AFAIK,
Drug Company A influence doctor (well documented). Doctor prescribe Drug A. Pharmacist dispense Drug A.
So I fail to see how Drug company A can have much influence over the pharmacist.


Another scenario from what I read.
Doctor prescribe Drug A. Pharmacist has to dispense Drug A. But if Drug A are are made by several companies with different price, then patient has the choice as to which one he wanted and pay accordingly. This choice to patient is not always available from doctor clinic because doctor clinic may only keep 1 brand. No choice.

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Added on December 20, 2008, 8:33 amWell said. It's about who is the BETTER person to dispense. And the BETTER person should have the right to dispense.

Not who CAN do dispensing or giving out of tablet. Heck, with some training, you can even train a monkey to throw tablet at the patient.


This post has been edited by Optiplex330: Dec 20 2008, 08:33 AM

In Australia, there's a checkbox in the Rx that reads "no brand substitution". I imagine a situation where mom-and-pop private clinic doctors start partnering with pharmacists to have a pharmacy within the same premise. The good of it is that you no longer have SPM-leavers dispensing, but you still have the problem of brand preference, with profit motive as the pharmacist and doctor are in the same cahoots.

Even if it was regulated such that such arrangements cannot formed, the profit motive still exists - it shifts from one party (dispensing doctors) to another (dispensing pharmacists). I quote you an anecdote from here:

The Buddha way - The Middle Path.

Too much power must not be vested in either the doctor nor the pharmacist. Check and Balance of some sort is the key to better patient care and interest.

Right now in Malaysia, the doctor has too much power. In India, the reverse. Both not good.

True that.

Hey, what do you think about mandatory prescription writing as an interim step. I read about it in this page.

this is usually 'used' in critical meds which a patient has been stabilised on like epileptic medications and some other narrow therapeutic meds as different brands could contain different excipeints which can change the pharmacokinetics and bioavailability of it.
but for the most medications usually a substitution can be made.

Now these 2 are new words, pharmacokinetics and bioavailablility, especially the former. Do doctors study these and to the same degree of details?

well, i think it could be a good step since it would give the patient more information about the medication and other medical personnel(pharm, nurse. other docs ect) can easily know what they were taking without going through trial and error

but im more for mandatory proper labelling of the medications given out for the immediate future really since the prescription system is still a very long way off from what i can tell. make it a law instead of a 'good practise guideline' which doctors can choose to not follow.....



i think they touch on them briefly in meds course but from what i know, no where near enough to make a judgement call for most doctors (unless they have good amount of experience or they specialise in the field).
i have a lecturer who actually often get invitations from med schools to do short lecture on these topics to try to raise awareness on these... so that should tell you something.

bioavailability was the 'old standard' measurement (not sure how long ago) but now they rely on bioequivalence and therapeutic equivalence as well(in which this would prove that a substitution from innovator's brand to generics can be done).



*btw, while i was away from the internets for the past 1 week, this thread has grown like 10 pages in which i cant really be bothered to read through all of it. but from the last 2 page or so, all i see unproductive repetition and petty bickering until wakky started to step in. i would appreciate it if the discussion could be done in a more civilised and interlectually 'rewarding' manner

This post has been edited by mr lappy: Dec 21 2008, 08:22 AM