Hmm, well. I'm working on a mod for our local games. Basically tweaks from PAM4 and Promod. The sway stays.

Honestly, i play both. i played both. I see the flaws both as an organizer and a player. PAM4 is outdated soon and i will need an alternative if the game is to go on. As players we see things the developers do not. But no Mod can fix what we find, because the variables are found within the engine itself, where no player can access. Unless they are just plain textures, i for one will not argue about the existance of bugs in the game unless they are apparent.

To me, the sway is there to implement realism, regardless of what other people think. Have you held a gun before? It SWAYS. No matter how skilled or buff you are. It will sway eventually.

But in my humble opinion, those perks did not need to be removed, neither was there need to eventually do such profound changes to a game engine. All we need to do is reduce its usefulness, rather than completely remove it from the game. You see, Call of Duty thrives on the aspect of humanity, realism and the human advantage. That is why perks are there. They represent those who are faster, stronger, smarter, deadlier. In fact, if i could restrict perks to certain classes, the game would be balanced competitively by itself, rather than a complete removal.

For example, Deep Impact only for a Heavy Gunner? Instead of giving a 1.5 penetration to it, why not give it a 1.0 or 0.8 increment? Its far less, still useful and not overly abusable. Dead Silence for the Spec Ops? That way, the spec ops will give up his speed for quiter movement but at the same time, but there is never more than 1 player with Dead Silence to expect.

The reason why people are so partially into or out of promod is due to its lack of content. Any other game could be easily tweaked to what it has now, just that it looks different.

Im not totally agreeing with what the poster said about stun nades tho, they are just annoying. Unless the range can be reduced(which they can) and/or time stunned reduced, it will put it back into play.

Honestly i hate being killed by an SMG at long range, because technically, its not supposed to be effective at that range. Thats one of the many reasons why i do not want promod.
If it was all about skill, then ambient sounds, rain, snow, fog, explosive cars should be easily taken advantage of by a resourceful player, where as less skillful players will eventually lose out as they are not used to such barriers.

Visual barriers such as fog, hamper real life snipers/markmen and test their perception when they are on duty. These are professionals who risk their lives to do their duty and as professional gamers who immitate such people in a game, we are not one to complain about the environment given.

I dislike the fact that they are removed, simply because you can no longer sneak by a less-perceptive player, who eventually needs to only aim at a location and rely on reflex. War is not all about reflexes, a game based on war should not be any different.

Commands to remove grass or shadows have also hampered this, but not to the extent that some mods have. Overdone.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 28 2008, 05:03 PM

Well, to me, its not an imbalance if everyone has their own advantages.
Teamwork, Experience and Skill.

If you can identify why they DONT exist in the mods we play, then this argument is valid. Otherwise, i would say both require skill, teamwork and experience. So, that isnt promod's advantage really.

Honestly, have you seen a game so modified in competitive sports like WCG, WGT or ESWC? No right?

That is why it is important to maintain certain elements of the game. We may not be united between PAM4 and promod but you will find that ESP does not strive on beating others with our own rules, but rather to experience them all, conclude by choosing the best for the locals then if possible create our own modified mods (like singapore) and eventually make it balanced.

No one is stopping you from joining international tournies. Seriously, this discussion pays no heed to what is and what isn't. There is no need for this argument to continue solely because it will have no effect on the local community unless you develop and unbiased neutral mod that fits the needs of both sides. Such as the availability of perks while having competitive play.

This is not impossible. You noticed that even without sufficient training in promod, most local pam4 players easily adapted to promod, despite their hates of it. This is simply because promod is easier to play as many of the elements and aspects of the game is removed. Players from Malaysia were not outgunned, they were rather out-positioned in WCG.

I was watching how they beat my team in SG. 14-0 is nothing to be proud of, unless you learn something from it.

Today, i can safely say that my team can easily make that a 14-12 or even a possible win, simply because we've been training the spots and the angles. Their skills are harnessed from the barriers the non-promod games give them. It eventually becomes easier to play promod because of this.

In conclusion, the mod will eventually play the least importance because eventually, since reflex plays such a big role, all you need is your reflexes. If your reflexes are godlike, positions and tactics are solid, promod is easy. If you play the stock game, you will still own with these skills, but perks give less accurate players a chance to stand up to you, since their focus may differ. (They may focus on pin-point firing instead of face-to-face combat, choosing their targets rather than attempting to kill whoever comes into their sights)

I love ghillie's because they hide you in grass, you can sneak by a player and take his team out from behind. Then you'll hear screams like "WHO THE F LEAKED A PLAYER! WHERE THE F DID HE COME FROM" and you snicker.

It takes skill to do that too, it takes skill to spot him too.

The main thing you need to worry about is most probably the rule difference. But since the local community has almost fully adapted PAM4's mod, the difference between them are barely important to mention. The round number difference, the defuse time, the plant time and eventually the hardcore mode. Perk restrictions ofcourse, but honestly a majority will abuse dead silence, that will ultimately be removed in upcoming tournaments. (Dead silence didnt play a large role in previous competitions, as people prefered more lethal aspects such as DI or Stopping Power over the UAV jammer.

As the focus of competitive play changes from semi-casual to pro, more things will be restricted such as CONSOLE COMMANDS that eventually ruin the game. Removing textures and grass is one major issue i find players seem to abuse.

Malaysia and Singapore were beaten by Australia's Team Immunity in Singapore's Invitational by Sling HD. Why? They adapted to the rule changes, maps and game mode on the day they played. We went in blind, so did they, but they won? Even the teams from singapore which had the utmost opportunity to know those rules earlier lost. All they said was "Yeah, we didnt know the rules too. We came in blind". <---- and all the way from Aussieland. This is the reason why i believe game modes dont make a difference if you're "pro". Neither does the mod. The skills you have are yours, no matter what barrier you face, eventually, if you are skilled enough, you will pull through. The methodology of being a professional is not giving up, no matter the what barrier you have.

If you believe that yes, your mod is better than ours, then play our mod and win. Perhaps people will listen. Like you said, people won't listen to us unless we beat them at their game. This is what we strive to do, unfortunately, tournaments that allow us as Malaysians to join are rare overseas, unless they are online, which gives you 400 ping.

This discussion should end.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 29 2008, 03:39 AM

You want me to be straight forward with you?

Unlike your CSS, i dont recall calling it SHIT by the way, we do NOT have HL TV. Now, i dont know who in the right mind would in fact call what most Malaysian players prefer to play "SHIT". Perhaps IW's and Activisions downfall was their lack of intelligence dealing with communities. But that downfall is theirs, not ours. I for one do not even care about what mod is going to be used, because frankly all these threads you've created have only split the community apart, having heated arguements for nothing when there is already a set time to do it.

I am giving you political answers, answers that are not attempting to provoke or invoke others, rather give them time to think about what they want. Answers that are in between both modes, unbiased and with good intentions.

I have given the freedom to teams to choose what they want in their tournaments. When they say they dont want promod, i dont give them promod. Simple. But that doesnt mean you have to provoke flames and act immaturely to those who dont agree with you or vice versa.

This is the type of behaviour i find that stalls Malaysia from becoming anything pro. Attitude.

I agree that there must be a simplified rule. But your original arguement from god knows how many weeks back was that we follow "international rules". Yet again, there is none. Unless you want to support one of the few popular mods, which you are doing and wanted the attention SO much that you would want a tourney for it, in all honesty i would do it. But im not catering to just you.

If you really wanted the community to go pro, you should harness their abilities first, build up the "casual to pro" gamers before eventually starting a pro league or tournament.

YOU for one with all your experience should VERY well know how it works. With no local community you can consider yourself L33t. But to me, without a community, we dont have a future. Malaysia represented by 1 team? That team is top because? No one else plays? And we send this team because? No one else plays?

THINK. THINK. THINK. NO COMMUNITY, NO PROS. Just a bunch of thick headed skulls who think they are the best of what is left. I dont want that, i want to keep the top teams on their toes, so if they get chosen to represent us, at the very least we know they are the best of the best from the local community.

You wont stop me from what im doing. You mean you can't. Because i won't let you. Because the community and the gaming industry means a lot more to me than just winning competitions.

Yes, you made your point, why not just keep it at that?

"That's right you haven't actually seen it have you."

---

Added on October 29, 2008, 11:36 amand oh, by the way, the car explosion can be turned on or off, which was normally turned off in earlier versions of pro mod.

Now, if you were legitimately arguing that point, go see for yourself. Check the promod settings. You will see a setting there to turn it on or off. A setting added for admins to control their servers. This was available since PAM.



This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 29 2008, 11:36 AM

I agree. Close it.

There has been enough flames here. I dont need two separate ideals.
Like i said, i dont mind as a player to play promod. If you want it to be in tournaments give players time to adapt. end of story. If you didnt notice, its getting there.

I dont expect to run the show Teq, you know that. But you also have been very aggressive in your replies, when im trying to be neutral. There isnt a reason to resent the players. I told you, PAM4 will eventually be replaced, i for one will not deny it. I've seen its bugs from time to time but i see no reason for flames to happen. There is no sense in creating hate between players either.

It is unfortunate that the internet and the english language tend to cause misunderstandings.

I would also like to apologize if i unintentionally insulted anyone, especially teq. I agree with you thoroughly luft, albeit a little wacky. You have many points we stand to learn from. And i already made plans for the asian community to do such a thing "to unite a ruleset", with a competition running for the region. As the promod is widely used in the region, the optimal choice is to use it. Again, the meeting with the singaporean leaders and aussie leaders are to be set in motion only next year.

Me and Quikz(bfnut) had joked a lot about doing a tour around asia to promote COD4 and the chosen mod(if any). I am not biased to PAM. I just need you to understand teq.
But you tend to misunderstand my posts. At one point you actually said "I would help, just ask." Then a post later, it was a bashing on me.

>.<