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This post has been edited by Luftwacko: Oct 24 2012, 07:09 PM

Sounds like some stupid rant la. Some noob that couldn't get his team into CEVO-P let alone CEVO-M.

If its anything this derikson is good at its ranting. Professional Ranter.. Heh..

Instead of ranting like some angst noob. Why doesn't he try making a mod to suit the mass public then.

I mean it seriously. Its not that I like promod for some egotistical reason. I have to since SKOTH4 will most probably use it again.

I gotta get my team trained up to par with most of the others who are already ahead.

I don't mind playing mods like promod just as long as they simplify the basic gameplay elements that made games like CoD1 and CoD2 shine in the first place.

What these kinda guys don't understand, is that the people who have actually went through hell to get their teams to where they are after struggling in the competitive scene, see things very differently than those who've just started fresh playing CoD4.

*note: CoD4 wasn't designed for competitive gaming in the first place.

Yes, we know the perks are a big part of the game but thats unacceptable by those who actually play this game as a sport. Everyone here watches sporting events right? Team sports? Yeah, most of you guys could tell if the other team was better just by watching right? That's what e-sports is like since the first WCG.

The thing that separates the good teams from the bad teams is just three things: Skill, Teamwork and Experience. Gaming gear is the last little bit that will help to improve their game.

I speak freely and I want to know why is everyone so angst up about the thoughts of people who gave their very best to lay the foundation for the rest of the others who gave theirs too.

+1...

ps: this is not spam its just taht this guy said it all i cant add anymore to his facts my +1 is for what derikson said btw

This post has been edited by Holyboyz: Oct 28 2008, 05:20 PM

+1

If Promod really was that bad, would see the competitive scene changing already. Too bad you don't. And I don't think I have to say why.

Everything has flaws. Nothing is perfect. All we can do is slowly fix the flaws.

This post has been edited by Strayfah: Oct 28 2008, 04:24 PM

Hmm, well. I'm working on a mod for our local games. Basically tweaks from PAM4 and Promod. The sway stays.

Honestly, i play both. i played both. I see the flaws both as an organizer and a player. PAM4 is outdated soon and i will need an alternative if the game is to go on. As players we see things the developers do not. But no Mod can fix what we find, because the variables are found within the engine itself, where no player can access. Unless they are just plain textures, i for one will not argue about the existance of bugs in the game unless they are apparent.

To me, the sway is there to implement realism, regardless of what other people think. Have you held a gun before? It SWAYS. No matter how skilled or buff you are. It will sway eventually.

But in my humble opinion, those perks did not need to be removed, neither was there need to eventually do such profound changes to a game engine. All we need to do is reduce its usefulness, rather than completely remove it from the game. You see, Call of Duty thrives on the aspect of humanity, realism and the human advantage. That is why perks are there. They represent those who are faster, stronger, smarter, deadlier. In fact, if i could restrict perks to certain classes, the game would be balanced competitively by itself, rather than a complete removal.

For example, Deep Impact only for a Heavy Gunner? Instead of giving a 1.5 penetration to it, why not give it a 1.0 or 0.8 increment? Its far less, still useful and not overly abusable. Dead Silence for the Spec Ops? That way, the spec ops will give up his speed for quiter movement but at the same time, but there is never more than 1 player with Dead Silence to expect.

The reason why people are so partially into or out of promod is due to its lack of content. Any other game could be easily tweaked to what it has now, just that it looks different.

Im not totally agreeing with what the poster said about stun nades tho, they are just annoying. Unless the range can be reduced(which they can) and/or time stunned reduced, it will put it back into play.

Honestly i hate being killed by an SMG at long range, because technically, its not supposed to be effective at that range. Thats one of the many reasons why i do not want promod.
If it was all about skill, then ambient sounds, rain, snow, fog, explosive cars should be easily taken advantage of by a resourceful player, where as less skillful players will eventually lose out as they are not used to such barriers.

Visual barriers such as fog, hamper real life snipers/markmen and test their perception when they are on duty. These are professionals who risk their lives to do their duty and as professional gamers who immitate such people in a game, we are not one to complain about the environment given.

I dislike the fact that they are removed, simply because you can no longer sneak by a less-perceptive player, who eventually needs to only aim at a location and rely on reflex. War is not all about reflexes, a game based on war should not be any different.

Commands to remove grass or shadows have also hampered this, but not to the extent that some mods have. Overdone.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 28 2008, 05:03 PM

Hey crashtec, since you're creating a mod, may I suggest a few (2 cents?) changes?

Well, that's my idea to make weapons that are apparently underused in mp more useful. I've created another thread earlier regarding underpowered stuffs in the game so that I can construct more ideas for changes but apparently I got flamed . But wadahek, here're my ideas so far. Tell me what you think.

This post has been edited by Luftwacko: Oct 28 2008, 05:46 PM

I think everyone should jz go play paintball. Speedball version.
After that play Promod COD4.
After that play Pam4 or Stock COD4.
Then u ll realised playing paintball
... ur gun sways... especially WHEN YOU RUN!
... aiming down sights... your neck GETS TIRED!
... and if the team manages to sneak in a 'snake'. No matter how skillful the opponent is in shooting, if he 's not perceptive. The 'snake' can take the whole team down...

OMG... i m rambling hahahaha
point is COD4 is realistc... speedball is like playing pam4 in shipment

You should help brian then luft. I'll help in anyway I can. Just ask.

rofl are u sure? because i remember u like claymores in a competitive game. tell derikson about the importance of claymores and bombsquads

i agree with this

"Okay, back to the two remaining sniper rifles.

First, what dumbass left in the R700? It is moronic to have two weapons, now made identical by this dumbass mod, and give one the glaring weakness of having one less bullet's worth capacity."

same weapon but different size. now we dun have the uniqueness of say a scout and an awp in cs. i find it very irritating as i thought the stock sniping weapons were great.

and i also agree with tequila, which many of u still doesnt get it.

"The thing that separates the good teams from the bad teams is just three things: Skill, Teamwork and Experience. Gaming gear is the last little bit that will help to improve their game."

everybody need to be on stock. this brings out the best in each individual. u cant have multiple perks as it will imbalance a competitive game. which is why jugger, DS, extreme condish etc is a big nono.

the thing about these eu/na people, they are nostalgic. they like everything to follow the old versions of COD. WHICH IS DAMAGING cod4.

You just proved our point No21. According to the thing, the CREATOR of PROMOD is the same person who you QUOTE "the thing about these eu/na people, they are nostalgic. they like everything to follow the old versions of COD. WHICH IS DAMAGING cod4." Which is? PROMOD =) So either you didn't read the post properly, or you made a mistype. I hope it was a mistype.

I think Tequila has a excellent argument. though I don't agree on several things. But We've already gone through this in like 15 other threads, so i don't have to repeat myself.

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Added on October 29, 2008, 12:17 amBut seriously Tequila, I understand where you're coming from, but why don't you make the rest of them play our style instead getting us to play theirs? I understand that if we want it to make a name we gotta play it their way but why don't we fight a bit here?

This post has been edited by Sanction: Oct 29 2008, 12:17 AM

there is a paintball mod in CoD4 dude.click here

not easy man unless u unlock the full auto weapons.yes thats rite.with this mod u can lvl up n unlock new weapons.all paintball guns based on real life paintball guns.they even have a paintball c4 ... wth. very realistic just like u want it.custom paintball maps r available as well.

conclusion.wraith should stop playing both pam4 n promod n start playing paintball mod.hmm can consider having it as a side event as well hahahaha.

Sanction,

I want to wage war with the teams overseas first. I shall return wounded and scathed but none the less with pride and honor.

It is unfortunate however, that the gears of war (competitive gaming) set in motion by CS has greatly influenced the masses and that was just 7-8 years ago. Not very long for a sport.

We need to play by their standards too in order to have a say. They also have way more experienced teams in which we would be shutting out from our inexperienced teams if we don't even bother to try and expose ourselves.

We don't believe that we can beat them. Yet we try to persuade them with words and facts. This is wrong. E-sports is generally a sport in its own sense. Less talk, More action.

This is how I Fight.
----------------------------------
If the CoD4 Community in Malaysia is truly united. I would not have wasted 5 mins waiting for a mix scrim to start. Everytime.

Do yourselves a favor and stop wasting peoples time when theres a mix scrim. Make it a habit to enforce match/scrim conduct here.

Sorry I oso very nostalgic. Kekeke.

This post has been edited by t3quila: Oct 29 2008, 02:00 AM

It's all about the majority of support you have. It's like asking a random citizen to go against the Parliament. Nobody will listen to you. Malaysian support is not enough. We need to actually prove it to other countries first. We can first start with changing the rulesets around Asia and gathering their support. Then slowly move on to the rest of the world.

huh?? im with the guy against promod. i dun agree with parts of how promod runs the game. its not right. but that doesnt mean im not gonna play it as a whole. playing promod is a whole new experience, lots of people disagree with it, but why do the rest of the world follow it? its a love and hate relationship for me and promod.

for me, the ideal platform would be a mod which alters all the dust and crap flying around, with stock weapons and shits, BUT LOCKED PERKS. meaning, bandy, stopping power, and the last one locked.

but in the end, people will still complain =/



This post has been edited by no21: Oct 29 2008, 02:13 AM

Well, to me, its not an imbalance if everyone has their own advantages.
Teamwork, Experience and Skill.

If you can identify why they DONT exist in the mods we play, then this argument is valid. Otherwise, i would say both require skill, teamwork and experience. So, that isnt promod's advantage really.

Honestly, have you seen a game so modified in competitive sports like WCG, WGT or ESWC? No right?

That is why it is important to maintain certain elements of the game. We may not be united between PAM4 and promod but you will find that ESP does not strive on beating others with our own rules, but rather to experience them all, conclude by choosing the best for the locals then if possible create our own modified mods (like singapore) and eventually make it balanced.

No one is stopping you from joining international tournies. Seriously, this discussion pays no heed to what is and what isn't. There is no need for this argument to continue solely because it will have no effect on the local community unless you develop and unbiased neutral mod that fits the needs of both sides. Such as the availability of perks while having competitive play.

This is not impossible. You noticed that even without sufficient training in promod, most local pam4 players easily adapted to promod, despite their hates of it. This is simply because promod is easier to play as many of the elements and aspects of the game is removed. Players from Malaysia were not outgunned, they were rather out-positioned in WCG.

I was watching how they beat my team in SG. 14-0 is nothing to be proud of, unless you learn something from it.

Today, i can safely say that my team can easily make that a 14-12 or even a possible win, simply because we've been training the spots and the angles. Their skills are harnessed from the barriers the non-promod games give them. It eventually becomes easier to play promod because of this.

In conclusion, the mod will eventually play the least importance because eventually, since reflex plays such a big role, all you need is your reflexes. If your reflexes are godlike, positions and tactics are solid, promod is easy. If you play the stock game, you will still own with these skills, but perks give less accurate players a chance to stand up to you, since their focus may differ. (They may focus on pin-point firing instead of face-to-face combat, choosing their targets rather than attempting to kill whoever comes into their sights)

I love ghillie's because they hide you in grass, you can sneak by a player and take his team out from behind. Then you'll hear screams like "WHO THE F LEAKED A PLAYER! WHERE THE F DID HE COME FROM" and you snicker.

It takes skill to do that too, it takes skill to spot him too.

The main thing you need to worry about is most probably the rule difference. But since the local community has almost fully adapted PAM4's mod, the difference between them are barely important to mention. The round number difference, the defuse time, the plant time and eventually the hardcore mode. Perk restrictions ofcourse, but honestly a majority will abuse dead silence, that will ultimately be removed in upcoming tournaments. (Dead silence didnt play a large role in previous competitions, as people prefered more lethal aspects such as DI or Stopping Power over the UAV jammer.

As the focus of competitive play changes from semi-casual to pro, more things will be restricted such as CONSOLE COMMANDS that eventually ruin the game. Removing textures and grass is one major issue i find players seem to abuse.

Malaysia and Singapore were beaten by Australia's Team Immunity in Singapore's Invitational by Sling HD. Why? They adapted to the rule changes, maps and game mode on the day they played. We went in blind, so did they, but they won? Even the teams from singapore which had the utmost opportunity to know those rules earlier lost. All they said was "Yeah, we didnt know the rules too. We came in blind". <---- and all the way from Aussieland. This is the reason why i believe game modes dont make a difference if you're "pro". Neither does the mod. The skills you have are yours, no matter what barrier you face, eventually, if you are skilled enough, you will pull through. The methodology of being a professional is not giving up, no matter the what barrier you have.

If you believe that yes, your mod is better than ours, then play our mod and win. Perhaps people will listen. Like you said, people won't listen to us unless we beat them at their game. This is what we strive to do, unfortunately, tournaments that allow us as Malaysians to join are rare overseas, unless they are online, which gives you 400 ping.

This discussion should end.

This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 29 2008, 03:39 AM

Gee... If you're gonna use all them pretty words..

We're not getting to the point here and we never will. As it seems. The scene is considered dead from the beginning to boot. Because it never gets outside coverage.

And why does it not get coverage? Simple. No one would want to watch random. Shit. No one. Wants to watch a demo where they can't see anything worth learning.

Without any spectator-ship element and simplicity in gameplay/gamemodes the game you try to push competitive will die a painful death. Try as you may. A game with so much random things will NEVER make the cut.

We're gonna keep realism and your version of "skill" out of the argument. Everything the that clutters the basic gameplay element makes it this much further away from competitive playability.

Whenever there is a game that is very cluttered. The only way to boost its growing competitive community is to make a simplified, unified, no-nonsense and global mod/ruleset to abide by.

Normal demos are already very intolerable to watch. Everything is besides the skill element. How would you like to watch the real definition of skill? That's right you haven't actually seen it have you.

Promod will separate the boys from the men. Argue as you may. The competitive scene will never see it your way. Its probably..

Because they're too busy already playing what everyone else is. And to also get paid for playing this sport competitively. The competitive cod4 spearhead teams are already satisfied. Resistance, Is Futile.

My point is, in order for a game to be recognized and adopted into the already established/nostalgic competitive scene. It has to be one gamemode, de-cluttered, down to basics gameplay and near zero randomness.

I can't stop you from doing what you want. But I want everyone to stop fiddling around with the mod problem and just play something that's worth everyone's time. Even if we continue like this, we'll eventually get to a point where competitive is the same as any other standard.

So Why Not Start Now?

Oh and by the way cars do blow up and kill in promod. Who told you they didn't Mr.Crashtec ?

You want me to be straight forward with you?

Unlike your CSS, i dont recall calling it SHIT by the way, we do NOT have HL TV. Now, i dont know who in the right mind would in fact call what most Malaysian players prefer to play "SHIT". Perhaps IW's and Activisions downfall was their lack of intelligence dealing with communities. But that downfall is theirs, not ours. I for one do not even care about what mod is going to be used, because frankly all these threads you've created have only split the community apart, having heated arguements for nothing when there is already a set time to do it.

I am giving you political answers, answers that are not attempting to provoke or invoke others, rather give them time to think about what they want. Answers that are in between both modes, unbiased and with good intentions.

I have given the freedom to teams to choose what they want in their tournaments. When they say they dont want promod, i dont give them promod. Simple. But that doesnt mean you have to provoke flames and act immaturely to those who dont agree with you or vice versa.

This is the type of behaviour i find that stalls Malaysia from becoming anything pro. Attitude.

I agree that there must be a simplified rule. But your original arguement from god knows how many weeks back was that we follow "international rules". Yet again, there is none. Unless you want to support one of the few popular mods, which you are doing and wanted the attention SO much that you would want a tourney for it, in all honesty i would do it. But im not catering to just you.

If you really wanted the community to go pro, you should harness their abilities first, build up the "casual to pro" gamers before eventually starting a pro league or tournament.

YOU for one with all your experience should VERY well know how it works. With no local community you can consider yourself L33t. But to me, without a community, we dont have a future. Malaysia represented by 1 team? That team is top because? No one else plays? And we send this team because? No one else plays?

THINK. THINK. THINK. NO COMMUNITY, NO PROS. Just a bunch of thick headed skulls who think they are the best of what is left. I dont want that, i want to keep the top teams on their toes, so if they get chosen to represent us, at the very least we know they are the best of the best from the local community.

You wont stop me from what im doing. You mean you can't. Because i won't let you. Because the community and the gaming industry means a lot more to me than just winning competitions.

Yes, you made your point, why not just keep it at that?

"That's right you haven't actually seen it have you."

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Added on October 29, 2008, 11:36 amand oh, by the way, the car explosion can be turned on or off, which was normally turned off in earlier versions of pro mod.

Now, if you were legitimately arguing that point, go see for yourself. Check the promod settings. You will see a setting there to turn it on or off. A setting added for admins to control their servers. This was available since PAM.



This post has been edited by crashtec: Oct 29 2008, 11:36 AM

This whole topic is a lump of crap. It's just bringing the community apart

Imo, let ProMod worry about ProMod and PAM4 worry about PAM4. I don't see why PAM4 player should hate on ProMod when it doesn't affect them. ProMod hasn't said anything about PAM4. We can have community playing two mods, what's wrong with that? I don't see a problem, just play the game because you love it. Stop changing other people's stuff... It's annoying to see these PAM4 vs ProMod threads turn into flame-fests.

What really irritates me is the person who started this thread, use your common sense before posting something like this up, stuff like this is like racism and should better be left unsaid. You've spammed enough everywhere, it's giving people a reason to flame you.

Will a mod please come close this thread now, it's already as good as it ever will be.

This post has been edited by snipaboy: Oct 29 2008, 11:56 AM

This ends right now. There will be NO unified community. You stand on your side, I'll stand on mine. We'll subject to our own matters and none of those matters should be questioned by either side.

This game is played by people like me also. Don't expect to run the whole show here.

The line is drawn as of now.

I agree. Close it.

There has been enough flames here. I dont need two separate ideals.
Like i said, i dont mind as a player to play promod. If you want it to be in tournaments give players time to adapt. end of story. If you didnt notice, its getting there.

I dont expect to run the show Teq, you know that. But you also have been very aggressive in your replies, when im trying to be neutral. There isnt a reason to resent the players. I told you, PAM4 will eventually be replaced, i for one will not deny it. I've seen its bugs from time to time but i see no reason for flames to happen. There is no sense in creating hate between players either.