Hi all, my rig is as below. one question, currently i am have difficulty overclock my intel e4600 to 3.0ghz (stable at 2.85ghz) on stock vcore. I am using value ram, is it holding me back? is it possible if i am changing to performance ram my rig can overclock pass 2.9-3.0ghz? thanks

get a 1066 ram..yes..it is holding u back..get a higher clock Ram...

not your RAM issue.

the E4600 runs at 800Mhz FSB. means at 1:1 FSB to RAM ratio, it's only running the RAM at DDR2 400 speed.

your RAM has more than enough headroom.

my E2140 also 800Mhz FSB and using DDR2 667 only but can do 3.2ghz also, with the 667 running at 800.

just make sure you have the RAM setting to 1:1 (yes, your P5K has the option) and

your processor is running 12x200 = 2.4ghz.

to reach 3ghz, you just have to run it at 12x250. with 1:1, your RAM is only operating at DDR2 500 speed, which your DDR2 800 can more than handle it.

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Added on September 9, 2008, 12:06 pm

please explain how his DDR2 800 is holding his processor back when a the same pair of RAM also can be used by E2140 / E2160 / E2180 to go beyond 3Ghz.


This post has been edited by goldfries: Sep 9 2008, 12:06 PM

Yup, do just as goldfries says...

Maybe a bit out of topic here...
Can somebody sugggest me performance ram for notebook.
Where can I buy it?
Planning to upgrade asus F6V

first you post a reply that is with wrong information.

now you post single emoticon post.

please, don't spam. and don't post if you don't know the matter.

notebook section would be better for you but why would you want performance RAM for notebook?

Hi goldfries, I had tried to set the fsb at 250x12=3.0ghz and disable the C1E option and leave the rest to default or auto. but it can get pass POST, when come to windows initialize page it will then reboot. only manage to get it stable at 2.82ghz (235x12). If not the ram problem, is it the power problem? also in the bios for my mobo the ram can set in different divider, can i set it as close to 800 mhz as possible, not 1:1.

1. not RAM issue cos at 12x235, your RAM is only running at 470, which is far from your 800 limit.

2. looks like your processor could use some vcore boost. try upping the vcore.

3. yes you can set the RAM to beyond 1:1 but i suggest you do that only after you're settled with your OCed speed.

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Added on September 9, 2008, 12:32 pm4. see if you can lower your multiplier, which based on your board. i think you can. try 8x300, then 350, then 400.

and yes, vcore boost might be needed. and what i usually do is unplug the HDD from power. only plug HDD power in when i really want it to enter the OS.

This post has been edited by goldfries: Sep 9 2008, 12:32 PM

try 5:8 memory ratio

what i know,e4xxx series not overclockable compared e2xxx series...

thank you all for the advises

yes but still can go quite far.

anyway, my E2140 died after 1 year of 100% OC now my E7200 from 2.53 can go ~3.6 so I'm happy.

yep i read the review and im intrigued too get it but hoping on some extra budget 1st.

hi goldfries, do you think now is the right time to go for the C2Q, or E8xxx series?

go for E8XXX..some proc can push untill 4ghz..

personally if i were to play games, I go for E8xxx

if i were to do A LOT of video encoding (yes, meaning almost daily basis. huge files. not your once a while family holiday type) then yes, C2Q.

Hi goldfries, I read your review on Window vista, thinking about upgrading myself, i am more towards gaming, do you think wise to upgrade to vista now, or should wait after sp2 come out.

well im using vista now.
no problem on gaming whatsoever.just make sure 2gb or above ram.i run mercenaries 2,spore and bioshock on it now and no lag or framerate issue and im just using e2180 and 9800gt.

i have 4gb and vista ultimate detects as 3.25,

anyone have any idea if vista 64 detects 4gb?

This post has been edited by XaVieRGizmo: Sep 9 2008, 03:01 PM

yes it will detect 4gb.

Is there any different using ram 2 x 1GB, or 1 x 2GB, i saw most branded performance ram comes in 2 x 1GB

OCing with 2 sticks is easier than OCing with 4 sticks of ram

not a review la. mine is just to complain.

for me, Vista is fine on my gaming rig. just that work rig, donno why not recognizing most of my USB stuff (on gaming rig, same OS but ok wor) but somehow can recognize Nokia N81 straight.

i think going Vista is fine. just be prepared for crap, in case it happens.

hi, would like to check, since value ram also can used in overclocked, what is the advantages of having performance ram? is the performance differences that big between value ram and performance ram

Sigh ok looks like time for a technical explanation.
Intel processor speed is a function of two things:
1. Front Side Bus (FSB) speed
2. Clock multiplier.

Intel quoted FSB numbers are quad pumped, thus to derive the actual FSB speed of your processor, you need to divide by 4.

Non Extreme Edition processors have their clock multiplier locked, so overclocking is achieved by increasing the processor FSB.

Now very important: The lowest speed you can run your RAM is 1:1 with the FSB. (I think so, has anyone seen 0.9:1 divider?)

Every processor model is different. For example, your E4600 has FSB800/4 = FSB200. Thus at stock, your RAM is at DDR2-400 (DDR is double pumped), as Goldfries has explained. Thus you have a lot of headroom, as your RAM can reach DDR2-800, or FSB400. Your processor will not reach 12x400.

Now, your question. Performance RAM is used for processors that have higher stock FSBs or lower multipliers. As an example, I'm using a q9300 that is native 333x7.5. Now i know that my chip can reach 3.5Ghz, but to get there I would need 467FSB = DDR2-934. Your RAM would not be able to reach that, thus I need to use DDR2-1066.

Also, performance RAM has tighter timings. Typically ValueRAM has latencies of 5-5-5-18 ot 5-5-5-15. Performance RAM can go to 4-4-4-12 or better.

This post has been edited by zer0hour: Sep 9 2008, 06:56 PM

There are some gem value ram out there
Heard of FPY5 1300mhz?
Heard of Team Value 1100mhz and good latency?
It is a matter of chip and what it bin to do

Aha yeah true, but those are the exceptions to the rule =p
I've seen cheap HP RAM using Micron D9s too..

A-data d9gmh

ValueRAM vs High Performance RAM... easy, get the one with known good overclocking chip one

zer0hour pretty much nailed it with his explanation.


There are many leagues of 'performance RAM' too, and while my OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 800 might look good, and have low latencies out of the box, I have been unsuccessful running it at 1000MHz or more, stable.

Better to get something with D9GMH chipset.

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Added on September 9, 2008, 11:00 pmThe reason why they come packaged like that is because for whatever amount of RAM you need (1GB, 2GB, 4GB, 8GB, etc.), it is best to divide the amount and run them in two, to get the best performance out of your 'dual channel' setup.

If you just by one DIMM, you won't get the advantage of the setup, and if you buy four, you're still only getting dual channel, only now your system has to work with two separate threads of data for each channel to get the information held in the RAM.

It has nothing to do with 'being better for OC'ing.'



This post has been edited by CHiNO730: Sep 9 2008, 11:00 PM

300 per pair lah
Can get Xtreem 1066 for a little more

with my value ram i can get 19 seconds on 1mb superPI.its aeneon 667 somemore.

with that ram 13sec also can do

well those are exceptions.

what zer0hour mentioned are the general cases.

most time, HP RAM is only when
1. you know what to do it
2. you know how to get the max out of it

or else, it just works same with ValueRAM.

eg. running E4600 on stock. put in HP or VALUE RAM - also performance same. if the timing is better by default, then you can get some boost.

not all HP RAM comes with great timings. my OCZ Reaper 4GB kit - 5-5-5-15 by default. i could push it to 4-4-4-12 though.

As what many have mentioned here, it's the chipset that matters on how far the rams can go basically.
The other factors would be the PCB Layer count. Many value rams tend to use less layer PCBs while HP Rams have higher number of PCB layers.
I'm not too sure specifically how will it help in overclocking, but from what i heard, the higher the number of layers, the better the rams will withstand extra voltage pumped into it.

FP-Y5 doing 1300, thats only 1 revision of it if i've not mistaken. Used to know the specific revision when i was still selling rams.
While for the team values, yes i can confirm such rams do exist. I have a pair which can do 1200Mhz at 5-5-5-15 2.1v.
The team values were relabeled, so no way of telling what chips are those under the disguise, but best bet will be either D9 or Promos. From the shape of the chips, they do resemble D9, but the pain it causes when i try to run it on CL4 indicates the other way round.

There are many D9s out there.
Stating only D9 is very general.
D9DPN will not clock as good as a D9GCT/D9GMH/D9GKX.
Only D9Gs are known to be good at clocking.

So please beware when you try to purchase rams and only ask if they are D9s. D9s are everywhere, but not GMH,GKX and GCT.
Please also take note that the current Crucial Ballistix and Ballistix Tracers which are available for a good price does not use D9G. D9Gs will not come at such a price.


Ya, Rm300 per pair confirmed D9GMH.
Slap HR-07s on them and they fly.
Some will be willing to pay for them considering the fact that, it's guaranteed D9GMH and you won't need to void your warranty to check it out.
While for other HP rams, you'll need to rip off your Ram Sink which in most cases will void the warranty.

Wow, thanks a lot, now i have a clearer picture. will try to learn the timing setting now.....

died after 1 year of 100% OC? Bro, don't threaten me, now my E2160 OC at 3.3Ghz@ 1.55Vcore...i know my Vcore 'quite high'...

Anyway, i'm using value ram DDR2 667 as well, after set to 1:1 ratio, now run at 734Mhz @5-5-5-15-20...i'm sure not the ram hold me back...

if u're mentioning D9GMH,its only limited to 1GB sticks.Why? coz D9GMH chips are only available in 64Mb per chip. 1 DDR2 stick maximum can hold 16 chips.total 1gb on a stick for D9GMH. the current 1gb stick crucial ballistix , if its single sided,means its not D9GMH, its actually D9HNL.D9HNL is 128Mb per chip.so its used to make 2gb sticks nowadays to overcome density limitation by D9GMH.but D9HNL cant OC well.too bad.
till now, i dunno wat other 2gb per stick RAM tht can do good OC above 1Ghz wif good timings.

aiyah different usage mah. yours may last longer leh.

the answer is non. all 2gb sticks will not do tight timings at more then 1000mhz without excessively insane voltage (like 2.6 or 2.7)

failing that,

how about goldfries edition rams? world fastest ddr2 rams lol!




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i don't recall mid september has September Fools day. but would be nice if i can make $$$ out of RAM chips.

My previos KVR DDR667 stable OC E4400 @ 3.2GHz (320MHz*10, 2:3 Ratio), RAM running @ 960MHz

Someone is nuts on playing SPD

commonly performance ram had more low CL value than value ram, so the access time will be faster than value ram. But I didn't really feel much different between them.

maybe bcoz u're using Intel system which is frequency more effect compare to latency.if u're using an AMD,different story already.

Can you elaborate on this?

Yup I'd like to know why you say that too.

intel chips can overclock high FSB.high FSB needs high RAM frequency to cope wif the overclock.i believe the current C2D is fast becoz of the cache .high RAM frequency and high FSB assists the cache further.but intel platform need access the NB for the memory controller.thts latency already.intel is going for higher frequency in order to overcome the weakness in latency.
AMD chips cant clock the bus speed high.but AMD memory bandwidth much higher than intel now coz of built in memory controller inside the processor itself.Intel platform memory controller is inside the chipset.low latency much benefit AMD coz data need not access the NB for the memory controller (shorter path).

this is wat i understand from articles i read across the websites. correct me if i'm wrong.my english might not be perfect.

I'm not sure I understand.

You can find low latency memory and use it on Intel boards with better results compared to higher latency chips - thus low latency also improves performance on Intel chipsets.

The memory speed is also important because it determines how fast the cycle can be completed and the information delivered.

Hi All, currently i managed to get my proc oced to 2.88ghz (320 x9). So is there any different if i set my memory to 1:1 which is (640mhz) or as close to 800mhz as possible. In the bios i can set beyond 800mhz, if i set it will it overload my ram.

thanks

400 cannot ah boon? Why dont u up the Vcore? I not sure about E4600... I never had a C2D

Set your memory to as close to 800 as possible if you're going to stop at 320x9. If you're going to overclock further, leave it at 1:1 first.

my vcore (bios) already set at 1.35v, vcore idle is around 1.31 and vcore load is around 1.26-1.28v. the idle temp is 40c and full load in prime 95 can go up to 66c-68c. don't dare to set the vcore higher anymore....

Hmm those temps are a bit too hot for the Hyper 212. According to this chart it only loses to the CCF by 20%..so should be cooler. My QX@4.2Ghz loads at 60ish C.

I'd say reseat HSF or lapping time.

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?...eid=2271&page=5

is there any different if i change my 667 value ram to performance ram?
2x2GB 667 change to 4 Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2 PC2-8500 1066MHz

when youre surfing and do word processing it deosnt feel any faster.
in gaming maybe.

Actually the difference isn't that much and hardly noticeable.

Performance RAM = marketing gimmick

hmm...many anot ?

performance ram doesn't mean marketing gimmick, some they really provide good chipset so that we can overclock to a better extend

normal usage such as surf net, chatting, word processing i doubt u can feel any difference

@darude87 i mean gaming.

Not helping,only help in look and benchmarking

I just downgrade my rig from Crucial Balistic tracer 4gb running at DDR1066 @ 15-5-5-5.0 to Kingston value ram 8gb running at DDR960 @ 12-5-5-5.0.

Honestly i cant feel any different at all. Even my 3dmark2005/06 score not affect at all.

This post has been edited by Cyclone87: Sep 20 2008, 09:32 PM

hmm, i would like to ask some help from u all here.

Currently i am running this rig:

Intel E2160 M0 rev
Gigabyte 965P DS3 rev3.3 F12
TEAM Elite DDR800 2x1GB

I tired to OC my system @ 9x400 and CPU:RAM ratio = 1:1 @ stock Vcore and Vdimm, it failed me at any timing also.

Then, i tried to lower my RAM speed to 9x350, CPU:RAM ratio remained 1:1, Vcore and Vdimm remained stock, it still failed me.

After that, I tried to increase the Vcore +0.1V and Vdimm +0.1V, it still failed me.

Then, I tried to lower my RAM speed to 9x320, CPU:RAM ratio remained 1:1, Vcore and Vdimm remained stock, finally succeed.

However, my system seems like unstable. Means within 1-2 days, my PC will auto restart itself without any sign. I had checked the temperature using Core Temp, seems like No problem (32-36C)

So, till now, i am still running my rig @ stock speed and stock Voltage.

I don't know why my CPU cant go further. Is it my CPU FSB wall hold me back? or my motherboard? If it is really the CPU FSB wall problem, should I go for BSEL mod? worth it?

Hope I can get some help here. Any help will be appreciate. Thank you.

i think u need to add more vcore.. also add some vtt for stability.. as for vdimm stock voltage is enough since its running at 800mhz only...

i see. But is it my processor got FSB wall? coz it keep failed me after 9x320. even i lower my multiplier also cant pass 320 RAM speed.

I dont know why.

don't think its the fsb wall.. e2160 can easily run 400fsb..

think I should try to OC again.

thanks for the suggestion ya~

You're going too fast. To ensure maximum system stability what you should do is increase FSB in 5 or 10Mhz increments at a time.
Now you probably need more Vcore like Icemocha said. Go back to 9x320 but increase Vcore by +0.1. Run IBT 10 loops to test if stable. If pass, increase FSB by 10Mhz, run IBT, repeat.
If at any time you fail IBT, increase Vcore +0.1.

Not really,my E2160 is walled at 390

Sometimes it can also be the motherboard, not the CPU wall. A lot of factors, you just have to find out so that's the challenge and fun

This post has been edited by Silverfire: Sep 30 2008, 06:01 PM

Sure lah
1066mhz rev1.2 is good

Would like to check, which type of ram setup is recommended: 2 x 2GB or 4 x 1GB?

I think 2 gb x 2 would be better compare to 4 x 1 gb

some value ram rocks too !!! only they dont have good heat sink

well,if they have a decent chip

early this year, im using VALUE RAM for my rig..
im using 2Gb of RAM and my PC gone hang when
using SOLIDWORKS for hours..

but when i change to PERFORMANCE RAM, the
PC going smoothly for SOLDWORKS...

why this happen?
any one can help me for explaination?

Could be a lot of factor.
Lack of vdimm,timing is too tight for value ram or you get bad luck and get some defective ram(Always memtest for 1st night of ram)

how to check the FBS and everythig for the ram ah.xD

Check it under BIOS or using CPU-Z.

how do i go to CPU-Z

U have to download it first..google it first..there's a lot of website to download..

Thanks alot

tenkiu2
...i'll memtest for my upcoming rig

boon.fong
me used value ram also..
overclock my HTT to 250mhz
and timing 4-4-4-12
still not get errors in memtest, orthos, prime95, bla3
but beyond 250mhz, cannot boot

just want to ask is it possible to pair hi performance with value one?cause mine cant boot..aish..

wanna ask every body bout my probs... hehe...
i oc my proc e8400 stepping C0.. actually i wanna oc to 4.0ghz but i fail... the highest i get only 3.7ghz... stable until here on orthos test...
here my status at 3.7ghz and my rig spec :
@ 3.7 GHz FSB 413mhz : vcore, 1.28v.. vdimm, 2.20v.. vMCH (NB), 1.30v....
FSB:DRAM = 1:1....
MCH multiplyer : 2
ram timing : 4.4.4.10
cpu multiplyer : highest 9X..


my rig spec as in siggy..
gigabyte ep45-ds3 ( BIOS F9)... latest BIOS...
ram kingston hyperX performance ddr2 800mhz
i think this 2 things most important part in oc...

my question :
1. it is bcoz my mobo or my proc not so good??
2. it is my ram holding it back??
or
3. not so lucky in this thing??

try to change multi to X8 and fsb to 500.
add abit Vnb to 1.35v and Vcore to 1.3V
1:1 for fsb:dram ratio.

see what happen

up your vcore. i use 1.36 for my E7200.

btw this is not OCing help thread. your RAM could be alright, may need to pump up vdimm too if you intend to push it much further.

hehe.. sori if a bit off from the topic... just wanna check if my ram get any prob or not... neway, i will try & post the result.. thanks sifus...

try 400mhz where 1:1 results in 800mhz RAM. see if stable at that speed, which is 3.6ghz.

now, i'm at 3.6ghz and it so stable 24 hours... but when i reach 3.7ghz, like in 24 hours it will reboot... at this clock speed, the ram value is 826mhz ( 9 x 413 )... and ratio is 1:1 FSB:DRAM... i only can push +26mhz more than stock speed... even at 827mhz, it not pass the orthos test for 5 min...

hmmm

do this and post the result
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=21038827

and also the voltages and settings u used which are relevant

vcore
vdimm
fsb/vtt
nb
sb
pll
gtl

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Added on November 15, 2008, 1:44 pmhmm pretty good bios
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboard...ep45-ds3_9.html

This post has been edited by cstkl1: Nov 15 2008, 01:44 PM

thanks for the guide bro cstkl1... look like biostar t45 has quite diff in bios setting than gigabyte but i'll try it... there is one diff in my bios than yours... it's GTL... what is gtl?? in my bios dun have this thing... maybe it in diff name i guess.. here what it give in the bios...

cpu PLL, cpu termination, cpu ref, cpu core.....
DRAM voltage, DRAM termination, Channel A ref, Channel B ref......
MCH core, MCH/DRAM ref, MCH ref, ICH I/O....

for ure mobo
cpu termination = fsb = vtt voltage
cpu ref = cpu gtl
mch = nb
mch ref = nb gtl
mch/dram ref = nb/ddr2 gtl
i/o= SB

for the skews for channel A and B.. leave it on auto..doesnt make a difference unless ure doing high mhz on the cpu with high speed rams
especially when go above 4.4ghz..

gtl calculation for u is this
cpu gtl = 0.667 = cpu ref/cpu termination
nb gtl = 0.64 = nb ref/cpu termination


so i would try this for 3.6ghz
set cpu ref to 1.12 what ever the lowest but not lower than this
cpu vcore for starters set to the stock vcore for ure proc at 3ghz when u boot..
nb set to 1.212v
nb gtl = 0.64
cpu gtl = 0.667 or 0.635
doesnt really matter until u go above 4.25ghz
set ure pll to 1.5 and ure sb to 1.5 lowest...

ok pll voltage for c2d not really usefull unless ure clocking 4dimms.
and always set the pll= i/o volages

vdimm leave it at ure rams highest rated vdimm.

ok whats the safest vdimm for 24/7 use

if ure using a 6 pcb layer .. 2.2v
if ure ram is 8 pcb layer 2.3-2.3
because of the unknown factor of ure cable management and airflow in ure casing i advise always use ram coolers...
get the dominator ram kit cooler.. its cheap and damn good quality
but make sure it doesnt hit ure cpu cooler. as it is quite high.

one thing i have noticed with ure mobo is the lowest vtt voltage is 1.2v

dont leave any of these voltages on auto
pll, cpu, nb, vdimm, sb vtt...

vtt dont go further than 1.4v
pll dont go further than 1.7v

good luck..


oh yeah also forgot ure rams
whats the performance level u should set

google anandtech rampage formula... good read http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3208

performance level = tRD = Static tREAD value (biostar and gaygay)

for p45 is + 1 to that of x48/p35..
400fsb should be this
ram at
1200mhz 5-5-5-15 tRD = 6
800mhz 3-3-3-8 tRD = 7
and so on
1066mhz 5-5-5-15 tRD = 6/7 ( ok for this need a bit advance ram clocking with strap 400.. u need to run a pull phase and run some skewing)


This post has been edited by cstkl1: Nov 15 2008, 09:37 PM