Nice work. Very impressive...especially by hand some more. That 50/50 looks awesome.

ZeroSP...I suggest before you say anything, just stop for a moment and think deep and hard of what you've just put down there in your post. If you meant that as a joke then it's not funny. If you're jealous of Darren's achievements, so are most of the detailers around the world. Some question his work, some question his pricing, some question the necessity of spending so much capital, some even question whether the results were his or from the detailers he employed. But one thing *almost* all the detailers around the world agreed upon is, Darren has succesfully commercialised 'Professional Detailing' to a level achieved only by a handsfull of people around the world. I don't see much advertisement from him, nor do I see him doing any marketing fiasco in any forums. But yet, people are talking about him and kept flocking his place...and he doesn't even use Optimum products. Ask yourself why?

Sorry to butt in like this. But I'm just surprised of what's being posted and so sad with all these going-ons....

I do feel that I just need to add a wee bit on this. Not pointing or targeting any particular person/establishment, just a general statement.

It's ok for people like me, you or any other consumers to put down their views of other establishments or products (may it be good or bad) after trying/using them or engaging their services. As, being a consumer, we do have that prerogative. It's just a matter of exercising it wisely. But for somebody who are doing the same business in the same industry to do so....well....that's just plain rude and un-gentleman-like conduct.

I try to never look down on any brands/products/establishments/etc. unless they really stinks (putting aside CarPro IronX, Sonax Wheel Cleaner and the like as they stink like rotten egg but work quite decently...). The same product you're selling might be selling at a different price somewhere else, or somebody else might charge cheaper for doing the same thing you're doing. Who's/what's good or bad is for people like us (consumers) to decide. And, I think there is a saying that goes something like this: "one person's trash could be another's treasure".

We, the consumers, had long seen and experienced too many 'bad' traders taking advantage of our non-awareness and ignorance for the sake of 'making a profit'. That's why I like to DIY those that I can afford to do myself. That's why it took me months to buy a simple TV set, it took me years to buy a house of my own, it took me days to buy and change a single light bulb (okay....that could be because I was being lazy...), etc. And that's why I've spent god knows how much RM already for detailing tools and products (since we ARE in a detailing thread) just to test them out and learn to evaluate their pro and cons. And there are always two sides of them: PROs and CONs. Not strong enough but cheap, dangerous but fast and effective, extreme durability but can't protect from water spots, extreme protection but can't even last a week, etc...etc....

We learn so that we can progress.....and if we want to progress we need to learn....

Cheerio and have a cheerful and nice detailing voyage...I know I do.

What's your budget? What do you want to achieve?

Sorry to say, but with RM300, you won't be able to get much. A new, good quality DA would cost you at least around RM600, and an orbital (we normally call it a Random Orbital Buffer - ROB) like the Bosch is round RM350. By the way, a rotary rotate/spin whereas a DA/orbital would 'vibrate', like the B&D or Bosch. You won't be able to do much correction with a DA/ROB. But, saying that, I'm trying to find some time to try out some new polishes that is said to be able to do some decent amount of correction on a DA/ROB. So, there might still be hope for those who have limited budget to get some decent level of results. But still, RM300 is a little on the low side, considering you'd also need to buy a few buffing pads as well.

I'd say your next best option would be to get to know some of the detailing enthusiasts around here who detail as a hobby. Make some friends and you might be able to borrow from them cuz, from personal experience , they only use the machine occasionally. I would volunteer mine but, unfortunately, my bosch is already with another guy.

If you don't fancy that, then you can opt for those china-made cheap rotaries that cost around RM200 and spend some RM100 ~ RM150 more for a few buffing pads. Just be aware though, these machines' performance are way off if compare to the like of the Makita or DeWalt. But you should be able to get a decent level of finish with some extra patience, care and perserverence, not to mention some good quality coaching and plenty of practicing.

Another option that you could consider is to get your car to be properly detailed by a professional and just follow up with some DIY maintenance. For this, the B&D might be all the tools you'd need. With a good maintenance scheme/routine, you might not need another full detail for a couple of years or so.

Ask away if you have any more questions.

Well, you can try washing your car more thoroughly and pay extra attention to those area where the marks originate. Dirt/contaminant could be accumulating at those cracks or crevises where they originate and rain/water would wash them out, hence causing those marks. Try flushing them out more thoroughly with a strong jet of water or something the next time you wash your car and see whether the occurrance is reduced. But as long as the marks can be easily removed during your normal washing, then it wouldn't be much of a concern. If they're difficult to wash off, then I would think that the protection (wax/sealant/coating) is weakening/deteriorating and it's time to apply a fresh coat.

Regards.

ps. no I'm not a professional detailer nor do I detail for money. I'm just a hobbyist whose been maintaining my own rides and enjoying every minutes of it.....hehehe.....

Yes...I agree with that. To own the Makita 9227C or the DeWalt 849X or the Flex PE-14 would be a dream come true for enthusiasts.....

I prefer to apply waxes and sealants by hand. But I do see the advantage of using a machine for it - less tiring. The DeWalt I mentioned earlier is a rotary buffer - one that spins, not prefered by most people for wax/sealant application. Most of the time, if we were to use a machine, it would be using something like the Bosch or B&D random orbital buffer. Tight spaces/area would be a little bit of a problem though, but for those area, just change and use hand instead.

But....errr...is your B&D a rotary (spin) or an orbital (vibrate)? Your backing plate got velcro or not?

Either way, for application of wax/sealant, the softest pad would be most suitable, either Lake Country 5.5" Black or Blue pad or Meg's W9006 6.5" Finishing Pad or the like.

Unless, of course, when you're talking about finishing/waxing you mean removing some very mild defects.....

They are effective but, as with *most* cheap machine, they're not as powerful or nice to use as compared to those from the established brands. For example, these machines would bog down (or slow down) when you apply pressure, makes louder sound, the head can get very hot, etc. But if you don't mind those and after you get used to using it, it can produce results as good as their more expensive counterparts. I had one of those when I started getting serious into detailing and I don't have a single regret of selling it and getting the Makita (though it took me a while to save up the money for it). And I also know of a few fellow enthusiasts who are satisfied with just having the cheaper rotary as they don't really clock too many hours on them.

As for the brands, there are plenty of them out there selling at any hardware shop with all sort of names. But, try to find those from well established names before you go for the 'no-name' ones. I can't remember the one that I sold off, but I know of a Boh Hai, there's also the Maktek, Skils also selling a cheap polisher....and plenty of other with weird names. You can find plenty selling in mudah.

Your routine sounds fine to me. But, for me, other than the regular weekly washes, the rest I do when the time comes or when/if required. For example claying, if the surface still feels nice and smooth, even after a few months I'd just let it be cuz there's really no point of claying if not needed. Same thing goes to waxing and polishing. After a while you'd get to know when to wax again and when to polish. I also get lazy (or busy) some time and didn't do any polishing for more than a year. But do remember, the most important thing is TO PROTECT the paintwork. Polishing is for the looks and, if you can close one eye and stand all those swirls and marring, you don't really need to polish (I had to do that very often nowadays cuz don't have much of the luxury of time with works and family commitments). But I will make sure that I keep the protection going until I can find the time to make it shine again......

Regards.
TA.

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Added on October 19, 2012, 3:12 pmOh...may I just add that detailing is more like 80% skills and 20% tools and products. You can have the best tools/machine and the best products in the world, but without practicing and learning the proper techniques, you won't be able to achieve those that you've seen here. How many times have we seen people buying an expensive product from a well known brand and then condemning it saying that it's crap, whereas others have been using the same product and have no such problem?

This post has been edited by KrisMas: Oct 19 2012, 03:13 PM

Errr...sorry to say....but the KP-600 is not really a 'Dual Action'....it's an orbital. Don't think it can do much correction. But, saying that, I haven't tried it with Meg's Ultimate Compound though.....I've been reading that a DA/ROB with the right pad together with todays modern-day compound can give the rotary a run for its money.....

Well....if you still got that gatal and if money do rained on you, and if you're looking for a true DA like the Megs G220, I might just be able to steer you on the right direction for something better than that at around half the price or so......hahahaha......

hahaha....ok. You ask for it.
I only show you direction ah....you do the driving yourself.
1st: google for some info on this machine - Kestral Das6 Pro

And I guess you now know that Ultramate/Das6 Pro is sold locally.....time to break that piggy bank....hehehe....

This post has been edited by KrisMas: Oct 22 2012, 03:12 PM

By 'casual maintenance' I take it that you mean doing some minor corrections once in a while and majority of the times would be doing some paint cleaning or light polishing and waxing. For that, I would really recommend a DA. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are only 3 DAs available locally, the Megs G220, Ultramate and the Flex 3401 VRG. The Flex cost about RM2xxx, Megs retails for around RM16xx and the Ultramate RM7xx/RM8xx. Expensive? Yes, unfortunately, they are, but they are the best for what they do .

The cheaper rotary would be good too, as you can use it to remove some deeper defects as well. You'd need some practice and training when using a rotary or else, like you said, there's a small chance that you might cause more damage. But it's not as dangerous as most people say and not that difficult to learn. You just need to respect the machine and just pay attention on what you're doing. Learning to use the rotary is fun and watching the results is even more satisfying. I learned using the rotary from the many on-line videos, some guides from the detailing sifus and plenty of trial and error. So far, I can't remember damaging any paint yet. Just need patience and practice.

The B&D and Bosch are ROB or, another term would be an accentric polisher. The B&D is cheaper than the bosch which retails for around RM350. The principle on how they work is to immitate how you polish by hand. So, in a way, if you can do it by hand, then you can do it with ROBs. If you can't, then most probably the ROB also can't. But, again, I have yet to try my ROB with a few of new polishes that I just bought. These polishes is said to be able to do better correction with a DA and I'm trying to test it out and gauge how much correction it can achieve with an ROB. Still can't find the time to test them out though.......maybe others who had tried can chime in on this. Until then, I'd say that the ROB are good for applying waxes/sealants and doing some very light polishing (better terms would be paint cleaning).

I can't choose for you, all I can do is guide you and share my personal experience, observation and analysis. If you're looking to 'achieve' something with an ROB like the B&D, you might be dissapointed....I was. So I sold off mine and bought the Bosch which has a little bit more power and variable speed. I wasn't that satisfied either as, although it can correct a little bit more than the B&D, but it's still far from what a rotary can achieve. I still keep it because it's a great machine for doing some light polishing/paint cleaning and saves my arms from going limp from applying wax/sealant. A DA's performance would be something in between the ROB and a rotary. If that's what you're looking for, then a DA would be your best bet. Either that, or, if you're willing to wait a little bit more and give me some time to try my ROB with those now polishes......

How's that for an answer eh.....Hahaha....after reading back, I just realised that I didn't even answer your question....hahahah.....

1. It's difficult to say, especially when you don't know what they have done on the two occasions that you 'polished' your car. They might have used a very aggressve compound (that cuts a lot) or just very mild polish. There is this electronic tool that we call a 'paint thickness gauge' that can measure the thickness of the paint. From the readings, we can 'guesstimate' how much clear coat is left and whether or not it's safe to do any more compounding or polishing. You can try finding a place that have one but, as far as I know, not many detailing centre have/using this. If you can't find any, I have one in my possesion. Maybe we can meet up or you can join us in one of the detailing TTs that we regularly have.

2. Stone chips are a PITA. Nothing much can be done. Even if it can be filled and repaired, up close, it can still be seen. But it's better than repaint. Unless there's a terrible amount of them and looks horrible, then repaint is the only way. There's only one method (that I know of) that can offer good protection from stone chips - Paint Protection Film (PPF). It's something kinda like a thick plastic wrap. And, as usual, the better ones are expensive. You're looking at the price of around RM300 or more for my Waja front bumper alone.

There's a whole book written about the questions that you asked. They're really the basics for detailing. But to put it as simple as I can:
Clay - to removed bonded contaminant on the paint/clear coat.
Polish - to remove surface defects, level the paint, so as to make it shiny and glossy.
Wax - to apply wax or sealants so as to provide a layer of protection on the paint against the elements.

The basic step would be Clay -> Polish -> Wax

The 'redo cycle' would be - whenever necessary. When you feel that the surface is coarse and gritty - clay. When you feel that the surface has gone dull and not as shiny as you like - polish. When water on the surface of the paint is not beading nice anymore (just one of the indication that the protection has/is deteriorate) - wax. Or combinations of all three, whenever necessary.

Sorry, can't recommend any shops as I haven't been 'shopping around' for a while now. I only know a couple of places in Shah Alam and a few mobile detailers.

Yup. You can also use the rotary for 'waxing'. Just that I don't think there's any advantage in that as, when waxing, what you're doing is just APPLYING wax/sealant onto the paint. No hard work required there. So, normally, for me is just by hand.

I got my Bosch from ACE Hardware also, but that was so many years ago. I think I still see them selling at most hardware stores. Remember, it's Bosch GEX 125 AE. If it doesn't have the 'AE' behind it then it's the single speed version, a tad bit cheaper.

Wait ah...wait ah...I'll try to find some time for my tests. Lots of people are waiting for it actually...hahaha....

Sounds like you're using too much and applying them too accessively. Apply sparringly (use very little) and try to go for a 2nd wipe/buff after 10 ~ 15mins.

I've never use Sons of a Gun, but Magic 101 finishes off very shiny. But a 2nd wipe would make it lesser shiny and more like a satin finish. Try the above first since you've already have those. My experience with 4 cars, all 4 finished differently even when using the same product....

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Added on October 30, 2012, 10:35 amJust clay when or if you feel it's necessary - when the surface starts to feel coarse and gritty, even after a good wash. Claying won't remove the wax altogether, but it *could* remove portion of it. To be safe, just go over with a light application of wax after claying.

Just bare in mind though, like jackal400 said, claying *could* instill light marring onto the paint, especially when the paint surface is badly contaminated. Or, should I say, it's not the clay that's instilling the marring but it's mainly caused by contaminant that's sticking to the clay. Used correctly (and wisely), the marring should be very minimum.

Btw, jackal400, haven't heard/seen you online for quite some time now. Busy eh?

This post has been edited by KrisMas: Oct 30 2012, 10:36 AM

Will give you a heads up if there's any tt coming up.
Well....basically, most cars paintwork consist of base, primer, color and clear coat. The clear coat is the layer that's giving the protection. We are basically polishing away the clear coat. If the clear coat is too thin, you might polish away the clear coat (some termed this as 'strike through') and exposed the color coat. If this were to happen, the color coat would be without protection from the environment and that portion would degrade very much faster than the rest which still have clear on them.
I'm not saying that repainting is bad, it's just that it's difficult to get a good quality painter these days who doesn't just do a cincai2 job. Unless you're willing to pay a hefty sum of money for it, I wouldn't have too high of an expectations on the outcome/result. I've only seen two places where they do a very good quality job, and both places charge over 5k for 'basic' re-painting of a whole car, without changing the color tone. Another common complaints is colormatching when doing only certain panels. Even if they can match the color perfectly, the degradation rate won't be the same and, over time, the difference would show. There are some other factors but, all in all, best is to try your best to maintain the OEM paintwork and only go for a re-paint when it's absolutely necessary and unavoidable. That's just my view.

DO NOT BUY INTO THOSE MARKETING GIMMICKS. A 'wise old man' once told me, if a business has established themselves and is doing well, why in the world would they give discounts? Social responsibility? Making too much profit already and want to give back to the society? Maybe 1 in 100 would sincerely do that but, I haven't heard of any yet. I'm in quite a few detailing related forums and I haven't heard anything good about these groupon detailing packages yet.

Of the 5 step car care cycle, to me, the most important one is the 5th step, which is maintenance. If you're planning to start somewhere, better start there. If you have the resources, go for a full detail by a pro....a true professional. Afterwards, just concentrate on the maintenance, until things are more convenient for you and until you get to learn what the other steps required (in term of tools, products and techniques) and how to properly do them, and how to suit them into your lifestyle.

Glass coating? Well....lots of overhyped and over-rated coatings out there. But there are also quite a few good ones. Just be careful with the 'x no of years' warranty that they offer...read the fine prints and don't be misled my salesman (girl?). Either way, with or without 'glass coatings', you'd still need to do regular maintenance, or at least you'd need to wash regularly. These coatings are not meant to be an excuse to be lazy and forgo the regular mantenance step, these coatings are designed for EASE OF MAINTENANCE, i.e. EASIER to maintain and not NO NEED to maintain. If you notice, the word they would normally use is 'no need to wax again' and not 'no need to wash again'...or something like that. There's a lot of misconceptions about this so try not to get cought up by the 'trend' and the wrong info fed by the marketing gimmicks. Don't get me wrong, the 'glass coatings' are great technological advancement in paint protection but they're not a miracle product that don't require maintenance. I have a few coatings applied (testing) on my own rides (DIY of course) and it's been so easy to maintain them as compared to the traditional wax/sealant. If you can afford them, go for it. Oh...also, normally, the following terms applies: 'good things are *normally* not cheap and cheap things are *normaly* not good'.

If you're looking for suggestion and recommendations, I do have a couple of places/persons in mind, based on my limited experience of course.

No it won't, waxing is just applying something ONTO the paint, not removing the paint....but it's a whole lot of wasted energy and product though. From the sound of it, that's a job for a quick detailer or the like. You might want to consider using something like Meg's Ultimate Quick Wax or their Ultimate Quick Detailer. Sonax, Autoglym, Optimum, 3M, etc. all the branded names also have these type of 'spray on'. Or, if you're on a tight budget, you can try TW Wax it Wet....I tried it before and it's quite nice also. I use these 'spray on' all the time after a wash...kindof like getting back the 'just wax' look and feel.

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Added on October 31, 2012, 12:35 amSame-o same-o.
Stash? who? me? Nah...just a little bit of this and that, here and there, everywhere.....hehehe....but no time to do anything much la....work commitment ma....need to work hard and earn some money to sustain my impulse buying....hahahaha....

This post has been edited by KrisMas: Oct 31 2012, 12:35 AM

Don't forget to ask about their mandatory scheduled maintenance (if any) and the cost for it and whether it would void the warranty if you don't follow that schedule.

Sounds good to me too.
Just a few little suggestions though.

2) & 6) - I haven't tried Ultimate Wax so don't know about it's durability. But, normally, if you do no 6) after each wash or after a couple of washes, the wax *should* last longer than that. But, either way, sounds like a good schedule for me.

4) - Myself, after a good detail of the interior and dressed them up properly, I just use a damp cloth to go over them during my weekly wash or maybe after a couple of washes. Ultimate Protectant is quite durable if used for the interior. You'd really only need to use the quick interior detailer or just plain damp cloth and re-dressing *maybe* monthly, or even longer if well maintained regularly.

Another one, you might want to consider claying before using the ultimate polish (if required).

Hey...no sweat man. We're all here to share. Anyway, I was there before...as in staying in an apartment. I know the feeling and predicaments.

Right on. I wouldn't let my clay be that dirty...people do the above for show only

Clay would be the choice if you want to get rid of the 'roughness' feel. Don't need to be a pro to clay. After a few strokes like junbecks described, you'd get the hang of it and can finish a whole car in less than 1/2 hr. Polishing and getting rids of swirls, watermarks and scratches is another story though.....

I'd normally cut mine in half (approx 50gm). Store damp in an air-tight plastic container (eg. tupperware). Re-use if it's not too dirty. But I really don't use it that often since I do maintain (wash) my cars reguarly so not much contaminants. I only use it if I plan to do some polishing, and that would be around once a year......

^^^ hrrm....good one....never thought of doing it that way. Wonder why I don't see many of the guys doing this....