I'm sorry but I really really disagree with you. There is a reason why we call them endangered animals. It is because the WILD population is decreasing. The experts are not referring to the ones that are kept by people. Basically, not having these creatures as pets affects us little (in the sense that we can survive) but having it extinct from the wild affects our ecosystem's delicate balance. Where do you get your slow loris from? The wild of course. It is endangered so there's no way anyone can keep it or breed it legally. And Are you going to release the babies into the wild to "increase population" as you put it? I don't think so. The way you say it, you are going to increase the popularity of the pet by creating more lovers. It sounds really good, but what happens to people who can't get it frm limited captive bred ones? They get it from people who catch it in the wild. There you go again. Population decrease.

Plus releasing into the wild is difficult. They need facility and basically lots of fund to rehabilitate the animal to go and fend for itself in the wild. Just simply releasing it is basically starving or killing it. Since food arrives for them twice a day, they won't know where to start looking for food. They won't know what their natural predators look like. Stuff like that. Even with rehabilitations, chances of survival is not all that high. If it is, then many species in the world won't be endangered because they can just breed and use this technique but it just doesn't work that way.

I can clearly see that many of the zoo animals are kept in not so clean cages and obviously lacking because sometimes, we can't just recreate things they need in the wild. That would explain why the zoo only has a monkey or two in certain cages? It used to have a lot. Wat happened to them? Can't they "breed" as you put it? Not so easy... If they can do that the cages should be packed, not decreasing in numbers.

And when you rescue one from those sellers, you are encouraging the sellers to get again because there are too many who want to "rescue" them. We humans are born with compassion but think for the later generations. Massive amounts are going to be caught from the wild to satisfy the need of people making them into pets. This decreases their population even more.

And don't compare them to ferrets and suga gliders. DUDE, they are not going extinct. It's on a whole differnt level. And both of these pets already have established suppliers who breed them in captivity. Your pet doesn't. It's comparing apples and oranges. The kind of comparison you should be doing is against elephants and orang utans.

So there is a very good reason as to why it is illegal. wild bred ones are just different from captive bred ones. This is not about your slow loris. This is about the population of slow loris as a whole in the world. It is illegal, it is going extinct in the wild, both of these are facts. It doesn't matter that slow loris are easy to care for, are funny or cute as you claim (and I'm not sure they are). They are disappearing from the wild and YOU are a contributing factor.

And you are now out to make more "friends" who will help deplete slow loris numbers in the wild. Please don't do that. Yes you own it and love it. But think for our world and the slow loris with a bigger spec. Encouraging people to love them as pets just encourages more being captured. How about encouraging people to love them as part of our nature? That's better. And helping people who "rescued" them impulsively is good of you. But don't encourage people to "rescue" them. If you really love them, you will want them to thrive in their wild habitat too, not just in your home.

Abe, I know you have good intentions and you're being straightforward ( The kind of people I like) but some people will just see it as being mean lar.

You're just making him stand his ground and be more stubborn. If he is trully as moronic as you say, telling him nicely and arguing really doesn't help so we should save our breath. Just say your piece and leave it be. Some people can't see the bigger point. But some just need to be told to nicely.

Even if he doesn't get it, I'm sure some others will consider wat you say. You did a great job.

I am telling you this as a lover of nature as well as all animals in the world. I will let it die. Why, you ask? How can I be so cruel and still call myself an animal lover? Because I look at the big picture. When it dies, the shop/seller will not go and encourage people to catch it from the wild so they can sell it. Because it's difficult to sell and not good for business. Then their population in the wild can be stable and even increase. So yes, I will let it die. I will force myself to look somewhere else and walk away. Because more is at stake than that 1 slow loris in the cage. The population of thousands of slow loris, their very existance is at stake.

Sigh... Please understand. From my paragraph above as you read it. Tell me, when you rescue it, aren't you buying it? You are encouraging people to catch more when you "rescue it" we use "rescue" instead of rescue because you are not rescuing the population of slow loris. You are putting them in danger. Even if you rescued it by stealing it, the people will think it is valuable, so got people steal, and feel more encouraged to stock whenever possible, and more get captured!

Unless you rescue it in the sense that you inform WWF or someting and get this buying to stop on the spot then I'm all for it.

When the request stops, the stocking will too. Rescuing is making more people want it. DON'T!

Please look at the bigger picture and help slow loris as a whole. They're disappearing because of humans! Don't be a contributing factor.

Abe... Not helping. He did it because he thinks he's doing something good (although if you look at the big picture, he's actually not).

If he can stop people from rescuing and buying them by stopping the encouragement and discussion of them as pets, I'm very happy.

It will give wild slow loris a chance to flourish.

Hahahaha... Yeah I didn't say the guy can't keep his loris. Just don't make loris keepers increaase.

I've got hammies~ Who follows? Hehee...

I again make my stand. I will leave it alone. If people are buying it for withcraft, you are increasing the numbers caught by rescuing.

It is not your sin if you are not the one to torture and kill it. But is is your sin if you "rescued" one and the slow loris went extint. Why? Because you have just become a contributing factor. You became one of the reasons why it died from the face of earth. Your slow loris could have stayed in the wild and bred. If you didn't buy your slow loris, a few more could stay in the wild and help build the population. As I mentioned, it is not about YOUR slow loris or whether or not it's happy. It's about their population as a whole.

Mild threat of extinction? There was no ban for trade. Was it even in the endangered list? Plus most people now actually get home bred gliders, not ones caught from the wild. So dreadfully hard to tame, those wild ones.

But slow loris are different. They ARE on the list. They are a protected species. Here are some facts:

1. According to the Indonesian State’s legislation no. 5 of 1990 concerning the conservation of natural resources and ecosystems (article 21, no 2), the trade and the possession of protected animals including slow lorises are forbidden. The perpetrator will receive a jail sentence of 5 years and Rp 100 Million (US$11,000) fine.Slow lorises are thus legally protected by the Indonesian State’s legislation and law.

2. Their status according to IUCN is vulnerable, which means it is threatened by 10% rate of extinction in 10 years time.

3. To give the false impression to prospective buyers that slow lorises are tame, cute and do not bite, wildlife traders extract the animals’ teeth using pliers without pain killers. The extraction process often causes fracture and breakage to the teeth in addition to mouth injuries.

After the teeth extraction, the animals are hung upside down by holding the legs and are then swung in a circle, in the belief that it would stop the bleeding. Many animals suffer infection following the teeth extraction, some even die from the process.

4. Based on the investigation and monitoring conducted by ProFauna from 2002 to 2006, there are approximately 6000 to 7000 slow lorises caught each year from the wild in Indonesia, a completely unsustainable figure. This poses a serious threat to the preservation of slow lorises, particularly in view of the slow birth rate of the species, with a maximum of one offspring every one and a half years.



This post has been edited by Jamien: Jul 31 2008, 02:16 PM

Guys, case close. So everyone can chill out. It's not like we're going to report matmon or anyting.

Plus matmon has offered help to those who actually already have slow lorises (so very nice of him ) but is no longer promoting and asking people to save them.

Everyone just got into the heat of a moment since we all love animals and we all want to preserve nature.

Plus Abe apologized to matmon mar. So we can all drop it nicely.

So we can all cut each other some slack and wait for matmon to update us about his slow loris (just for information gaining. People should not get it as a pet ok?)