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Financial Is property going to drop?, General property price discussion

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Veda
post Oct 30 2010, 04:13 PM

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QUOTE(cranx @ Oct 29 2010, 02:35 PM)
this is all good. The faster and sharper the price increase, the better. I would like to see some day when the norm for new condos is RM1000psf.
lets see how long this game of musical chair is gonna last. tongue.gif
*
Malaysia has never experienced a property market crash, even in 97/98. Putting all hopes on a market crash, as some forumers seem to be doing, might not be the best move wink.gif
Veda
post Nov 1 2010, 12:33 AM

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QUOTE(xSean @ Oct 30 2010, 06:48 PM)
if u so confidence about m'sia property...y not buy as much as u can...

maybe u got some unit, so that's y u want it up up up....

plz think, 97/98 condo price still below 100-200k...some just 100k plus....and dsl is around 200-300k....more than 300k can get very nice enviroment...and that time salary still rm2-3k for few year experience.

now condo for 200-300k is so so environment.....for better environment, u need 400-500k, dsl no need to say...no RM500K, no need to think...unless u wanna buy old and leasehold...now few years experience...salary also 3-4k, if good...can hit rm5k
if u not expert, u also can see the big variance there...and plz bear in mind, 97/98...u can eat char kuey tiew include drink rm3-3.50. now char kuey tiew alone already rm4. last time got that many tolls, got also rm1 and below...now shopping mall parking...few hours rm5-8 alr...last time 97/98, got that expensive...if more than rm3, u guys COMPLAIN KAW KAW...and SWEAR KAW KAW....I NEVER GO THAT SHOPPING MALL ANYMORE...

what if feel, once it really hit....it will kena kaw kaw....if u got profit rm50k and above, just sell it...any up will down...if forever up, then there are no more poor ppl...
*
I noted from your posts that you are hunting for a property for your own stay.

If you are confident property price will drop and investors/speculators will kena kaw kaw, then you should be renting and waiting for the day of reckoning. Of course, you could be in for a very very long wait wink.gif

Re: highlighted. That's why people invest. If prices remain stagnant at RM100-200k since 97/98, how can investors using cap appreciation strategy make money? brows.gif


Added on November 1, 2010, 12:39 am
QUOTE(klbull @ Oct 30 2010, 06:57 PM)
Try going back to 1970/71 ( the aftermath of May 13 ) and 1987/88 ( recession & Ops Lallang ) for the experience of a property market slump. If the government had not imposed capital controls in 1998 during the Asian financial crisis, and then brought down interest rates sharply, properties would have followed the stock market and crashed as well. During the worst of the crisis in 1998,  short term Rgt interest rates went up to 15% as capital fled the country.
*
Noted. But this shows property slumps are very rare and those waiting for a property market crash could end up waiting for years.

This post has been edited by Veda: Nov 1 2010, 12:39 AM
Veda
post Nov 19 2010, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(Nikmon @ Nov 18 2010, 12:18 PM)
This is the problem lo, the market is driven by investor and developer, the price is high and people like me earn < 10K, can't afford a 1000sqf,  all price is > 450k.....  car loan, education loan, children education fees, and need to consider the repayment for house loan will increase frequently in next year due to increasing of BLR.  Sad.....
dooms day for normal buyer...

Is this healthy or not? cry.gif
*
No problem dude tongue.gif I've read about this young saleswoman earning RM3500 who manages to get buy a RM487,000 property by taking 40 years tenure for her loan. Monthly installment is RM1,860. She bought from developer, who will bear interest during construction.

I really salute her rclxms.gif

Veda
post Nov 23 2010, 02:03 PM

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From what I've observed at a recent property fair and at a few property booths at malls, the 70% cap does not have much effect.

People still buy buy buy!


Added on November 23, 2010, 2:04 pm
QUOTE(noproblem @ Nov 19 2010, 05:50 PM)
Really hope a lot this kind of peoples and waiting for next 1-2 years... ^^
*
Ah, but she might also make six figure profit. Fortune favours the bold laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Veda: Nov 23 2010, 02:04 PM
Veda
post Nov 24 2010, 11:40 AM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Nov 23 2010, 05:36 PM)
There's a fine line that separates the bold n the bodoh  tongue.gif
*
Don't discourage her lah. Must cheer her on. After all, people say: property prices in Malaysia always go up one ..... no bubble one .....we are still cheap compare to HK, Spore, Shanghai one whistling.gif

This post has been edited by Veda: Nov 24 2010, 11:47 AM
Veda
post Nov 25 2010, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Nov 24 2010, 06:01 PM)
Not discouraging, infact I admire people who takes WELL CALCULATED RISK. Basically :

1. The bold are an informed bunch who understands the risks & rewards, then proceed to buying.

2. The bodoh know half of the story or less but buy anyway driven primarily by the herd.

U see, both did the exact same action but one fella will suffer once the market heads south..............
*
Chief, when I said we should encourage her, I was being sarcastic lah doh.gif

This post has been edited by Veda: Nov 25 2010, 01:02 AM
Veda
post Dec 12 2010, 11:40 PM

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Dunno about other areas, but the price of the properties my family are vested in has continued to rise after the 70% cap was imposed.

And selling above bank valuation price is very normal lah, especially in prime areas.

Rather than wait for the price to drop, may I suggest those still looking for their first property is consider second hand properties in not-so-hot locations?

This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 12 2010, 11:42 PM
Veda
post Dec 16 2010, 10:52 PM

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QUOTE(blahnik @ Dec 15 2010, 06:00 PM)
i.need.a.house.in.pj. the price is ridiculous. i can't even get a decent 2 storey terrace at 700k!!! sigh.
*
Now ....

1. Why do u need a landed house? Why not a cheaper apartment?

2. Why in a prime area like PJ? Why not Cheras or Kajang or Serdang or newer parts of Puchong?

If you curb the middle class expectations, you could get a decent place for RM350k.
Veda
post Dec 16 2010, 11:58 PM

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blahnik,


Many families live in an apartment. Why can't yours? But if u insist, you can still get a landed property in Taman Puchong Prima for RM300k and in USJ12 for RM380k.

Middle class expectations is like the Malaysian version of the American Dream. The Dream includes owning a property in a prime area, preferably new, big and landed tongue.gif

But there's no shame in renting. Who knows, the property and stock market might actually collapse and force me to jump from a building ...... (joking only)


Added on December 17, 2010, 12:01 am
QUOTE(maxforce @ Dec 16 2010, 11:57 PM)
Funny lah... if ppl looking for PJ, takkan suggest Cheras, Kajang and Serdang?
LOLz...
If say Shah Alam, still possible for one to consider.
*
Shouldn't she look elsewhere if she can't afford PJ landed? That's what I meant when I suggest the need to curb the middle class expectations .....

This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 17 2010, 12:01 AM
Veda
post Dec 17 2010, 03:38 AM

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yeowa,

Blame the employers for being stingy with salary, not the government or speculation.

You said so many people suffer cause of the jump in property price - but look on the other side of the coin. So many people are blessed that the value of their property have gone up by 50-100%.

If a person can't afford to buy, just rent or stay with parents or get a subsale, non-landed property in a non-prime area. Besides, loan tenure can now go to 40 years - a couple of years ago, 30 years was the norm.


Added on December 17, 2010, 3:50 am
QUOTE(Nikmon @ Dec 17 2010, 02:02 AM)
What is middle class??dog?

so dog only deserve dog house? cry.gif

hope the gov can stop the speculation activities, else people like me, not high class will suffer a lot.
*
Well, some employers do treat us wage earners like dogs, don't they? And it's a dog eat dog world laugh.gif

I read somewhere that more and more Americans have given up the American Dream of owning a place, and are now renting.


This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 17 2010, 03:50 AM
Veda
post Dec 21 2010, 01:39 PM

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*Sigh* Even if the property market undergoes a correction ...... how much do you think the price will drop? 10-20%? When considering that property prices has gone up 50-100% in the past few years and continue to climb, those that managed to "time the market" (not many can do that!) and buy during a correction may end up paying more than today's prices tongue.gif

I can say with total confidence that the properties that my family owns will never be foreclosed or sold at bargain prices ..... cause we did our homework thumbup.gif

And for those praying for a drastic drop in prices that can only come from a very severe downturn ..... do you realise such a deep crisis may cause social unrest? Would you dare to buy then?


Added on December 21, 2010, 1:45 pmBtw. read below (from end of page 9 to page 10) for some investors' response to those hoping for property price drop. I know some taikos in that forum has at least 10 properties!

http://www.myrealestate.com.my/viewtopic.p...0066f50093fbb69

This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 21 2010, 01:46 PM
Veda
post Dec 23 2010, 02:28 PM

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A question to those waiting for the "property bubble" to burst so that they can buy cheap ....

Do you know that in a crisis situation where property prices drop and NPLs shot up, the banks will tighten their lending?

In other words,
1. you might not get 90% margin of finance, maybe not even 80%.
2. valuation might drop more sharply than price
3. interest rate might go up
4. banks might be very selective in who to give loans to

Property prices might be "cheap" then but could you pay cash for it? Cause you might not be able to get a loan ..... this is what is happening now in the US tongue.gif

Whether boom or burst .... it's the rich and the banks who win brows.gif

Veda
post Dec 23 2010, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Dec 23 2010, 12:22 PM)
I have to agree with you. Myself, and the guys around me, have previously talked about owning a home.  and guess what?  After much independant search, none of us has settled for anything. We are all still in the waiting game. Because those expensive prop in the middle of no where, are simply not realistic.

The guys that do buy those property are those who blindly buy in the hopes of making a quick buck.  These are the people who will face financial difficulties and cause the market to spiral down.
*
You guys might be in for a long wait unless you all lower your expectations......
Veda
post Dec 27 2010, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(dreamadream @ Dec 27 2010, 12:55 PM)
i don't agree with the "pressure for wages increment also up" bit. Just take a simple example, 10 years ago as a fresh graduate my starting salary was RM2000 a month, last year, when my youngest brother started working, his starting salary is RM1800.
30 years ago, my uncle bought a house for RM30k. He sold it last month for RM1.5 million. If starting salary was RM300 30 years ago, it sure isn't RM15k now .....  whistling.gif

Our average salary is well lagged behind the property value  especially at today's price. True that sellers can put whatever price they wanna sell , to add in inflation cost or whatnot, but the issue here is : will there be enough local buyers ?
There are buyers now...... someone at work sold his house within 3 days of putting it in the market. People will always need a roof over their heads.

Even if there are water fish who is willing to buy at high price, will they be able to get the funding needed with the average salary?
A few years ago, the max loan tenure is 30 years. There's 40-year loans now. Soon there'll be 2 generation loans, like in Japan  laugh.gif
*
Answer in red. Some people in this thread may choose not to buy. But the fact is, there are plenty of others who will buy.

This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 27 2010, 02:31 PM
Veda
post Dec 27 2010, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Dec 27 2010, 02:34 PM)
I had came across a cash rich company, the company can buy the almost whole floor of condo when launch, and a single unit is >400~500k, then appoint property agent to rent it out.
They say those money is excess for company operation, they do not need it much due to lack of expansion program, while FD rate is so low, might as well park some into property.
*
Chief, kindly name the company. I want to buy its shares drool.gif
Veda
post Dec 30 2010, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(dreamadream @ Dec 30 2010, 02:34 PM)
actually i think those who have been struggling to find a reasonably priced property (including myself) will agree with your points, but i think it is only natural that sellers/speculators will not agree biggrin.gif

maybe the sellers will think that this is the "sour grape" attitude of potential buyers to mention about all this ethical issues, but i would say that speculating on property is totally different from speculation on stock prices. The first one is like taking advantage over a basic need of human being while stock prices speculation is more of business adventures (not all human needs to own businesses via shares)  brows.gif .. speculating on property is quite similar to stockpile rice/onions/flour etc to sell them at a higher and higher price, and when the average/below average income families can no longer afford, the speculators will just say: then change your lifestyle, i.e. instead of feeding rice to whole family, cut it down by half, add water and eat porridge instead smile.gif. But what have the average families done wrong to deserve the deteriorated quality of life? they continue to work hard (if not harder) but end up with a worse off living standard due to excessive speculation, this is just not on.when the gap between the rich and poor gets bigger, that's when we start to hv a lot of social problems. Crime rates in the country did not just shoot up overnight, it is a long process that has brought us to feel so unsecured today. Like what buddists believe, cause and consequence. if we take more than reasonable, we will hv to pay back later on. Just like the global warming problem.

GOOD LUCK to all of us who are still homeless  laugh.gif
*
You make it sound like investors/speculators are economic criminals hmm.gif laugh.gif

Re: highlighted. Having a roof over one's head is a basic need. Owning a home is not a basic need. If a person cannot afford a house, he can always rent. I own a unit at an upper medium cost apartment in a good area and am surprised by the number of white collar people in their 20s and 30s renting there. Mind you, the rental is not cheap - RM1.5k-RM2k - but they willingly pay what I suspect is at least 40-50% of their salary in return for a very nice, safe place. So, it's a win-win situation.

But saying property prices has gone out of reach of the middle class is simplistic and frankly, BS. One could always buy in the less popular places ...... it's just that some people refuse to adjust their expectations (change lifestyle, as our leader said tongue.gif ).

This post has been edited by Veda: Dec 30 2010, 03:18 PM
Veda
post Dec 30 2010, 11:11 PM

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In this life, we are at the mercy of a lot of people .... our employers, our politicians. If the landlord asks you to leave, just move to another place. It's a bit of a hassle, yes, but owning a home and managing tenants also has its hassles. Besides, those who rent are not tied to a particular place ..... they can go wherever they like. Isn't that a form of freedom?

QUOTE
When you are willing to hire a taxi to work everyday, even though you can afford a car.

Why take a taxi? There's public transport. Or motorcycle. The "middle class expectations" I've been talking about rears its head again. People will argue that motorcycle is not safe, public transport not reliable etc ..... die die must have a car.

I won't bother to discuss the ethics side of the issue. The world is not fair - deal with it. If you are the son of a tycoon, you can be CEO in your 20s and 30s. Just do your best with the hand you are dealt with. If you are handed a lemon, make lemonade tongue.gif


Veda
post Jan 3 2011, 01:50 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Jan 3 2011, 08:49 AM)
Yes, so you concede, that it's unethical? That's all I'm asking atm.

The world may be unfair, but the real question is, what role do we play in making it worst? Certainly there must be some level of civility.

People die from terminal illnesses everyday, but that doesn't mean people can start murdering.

I won't really fault anybody for buying or investing in property before this (assuming they aren't aware of the ethical aspect), just hope that people realise what is happening, and discuss next phase of action.
*
Well, I've never felt any guilt over my investments. I'm not into philosophy, which I regard as a waste of time. All I want is is make enough money to retire young and wealthy cause I hate working for people.

Those putting their hopes on a market crash are playing a losers' game. There's been no property market crash for 25 years .... even in 97/98, prices didn't drop drasticaaly enuff to qualify as a crash. In the meantime, inflation will erode their savings while property prices keep going up and up, eventually going beyond their ability to buy.

Veda
post Jan 3 2011, 04:38 PM

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QUOTE(yeowa @ Jan 3 2011, 02:11 PM)
Nvm if it happen I hope you are ok.

I believe a lot of ppl would prefer readjustment of the property price rather than crash. You can call us loser, but we really can't afford the house which is convenient to our workplace or near to our current staying place with ppl like you around.
*
Whether the market crash, correct or continue to go up, I'm confident I'll thrive. Unlike the stereotype of speculators who supposely "follow the herd", I pick my buys carefully and practise risk management.

Re-adjustment of the property price = correction = 5-15% drop only.


Added on January 3, 2011, 4:42 pm
QUOTE(Onemorething @ Jan 3 2011, 03:01 PM)
I would enjoy your optimism while you can - dont worry being young gives you extra time to recover from life lessons!
*
If you hope to scoop up a Damansara Heights landed property at bargain prices you'll likely be sorely disappointed .... the ppl there have strong holding power laugh.gif If high rise at Mont Kiara or around KLCC ...... got chance since there's too many newly built apartments.


Added on January 3, 2011, 4:46 pm
QUOTE(TheDoer @ Jan 3 2011, 10:10 AM)
Just wondering...

How does one, sell their property at a profit, then buy another house which is under valued?

In essence, wouldn't it be the same to just stick to that same property?
*
I'm afraid you don't understand property investment hmm.gif ..... it's all about leverage and using OPM (other people's money)

This post has been edited by Veda: Jan 3 2011, 04:46 PM
Veda
post Jan 7 2011, 08:07 PM

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Frankly, I am amazed at the "facts" and "supporting evidence" that people will dig up to convince themselves that their belief and hope is correct, in this case that "property prices are going to drop" shakehead.gif

Folks, people have been talking for a long long time that property is overpriced and will drop.

And for those who are afraid of investment ..... you dunno what your are missing .... I'm having the time of my life speculating/investing in shares and property rclxm9.gif


Stocks are having a bull run now ..... and already people are discussing where to move their money to when the bull runs out of breath, as it will one day. And the popular choice is property. So u see, there is the possibilty of fresh money flowing into property in the near future, pushing prices up further. Those who wait too long may regret then ....




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