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Financial Is property going to drop?, General property price discussion

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Pai
post Aug 23 2008, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Aug 23 2008, 10:26 AM)
The best way to predict future is to make it happen.
*
Very true. We both made very diff bets, and we have to agree to disagree when it comes to Malaysia's future outlook.

I dont think we'll both do teribly bad in the future and I wish u the very best of luck. wink.gif





back to topic, with recent price hike, think generally we can all anticipate a major slowdown when it comes to low and medium cost properties. Looks like most 1st time home buyers now will have to opt for 2nd-hand properties as I dont think no sane developer would launch anything below RM250 psf now.
johnsonm
post Aug 25 2008, 03:30 PM

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and if all 1st time buyers go for 2nd hand properties, the prices of 2nd hand properties will get pushed up close to the prices of newly launched properties.
Pai
post Aug 25 2008, 04:44 PM

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think we can anticipate that the "fair" value of a subsale property should be 10-20% discount to new launches or newly completed properties.
humbble
post Aug 25 2008, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(billytong @ Jul 28 2008, 01:04 PM)
Long term in the sense of what ROI.

If it takes a property raise its value 50% in 10yrs, then it is not a good property.

I usually like to look for those that I can get 15-30% ROI within 3yrs.
*
I just bought a property in Bukit Indah by Setia Corp in JB, the price was RM230,000 8 mths ago, now, with the same dimension and built-up, they are selling at Rm325,000. I am tempted to sell but it is really a good location.What is the ROI in %

humbble
shadowz
post Aug 25 2008, 10:48 PM

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That is 95K increase... Thats roughly 40% increase. Less than one year too smile.gif I would say "VERY cool~" LoL!
agape_ian
post Aug 26 2008, 01:46 PM

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QUOTE(johnsonm @ Aug 25 2008, 03:30 PM)
and if all 1st time buyers go for 2nd hand properties, the prices of 2nd hand properties will get pushed up close to the prices of newly launched properties.
*
In fact, some of the existing properties are even higher than new developments.


Added on August 26, 2008, 1:47 pm
QUOTE(humbble @ Aug 25 2008, 09:37 PM)
I just bought a property in Bukit Indah by Setia Corp in JB, the price was RM230,000 8 mths ago, now, with the same dimension and built-up, they are selling at Rm325,000. I am tempted to sell but it is really a good location.What is the ROI in %

humbble
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While the price is still good, I suggest you to sell off soon since you have gained a large profit margin. There are too many uncertainties in the years to come.

This post has been edited by agape_ian: Aug 26 2008, 01:47 PM
joe_mamak
post Aug 26 2008, 02:47 PM

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I think he just bought at RM325,000....
cherroy
post Aug 26 2008, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(agape_ian @ Aug 26 2008, 01:46 PM)
In fact, some of the existing properties are even higher than new developments.

*
Existing properties has one advantage over new developments ie. lesser risk. That's why people willing to pay some premium over it, as those buyers don't need to face the risk of developer delaying the project, or worst still developer abandon the project. Especially nowadays, construction materials price had been rising fast which put a lot presssure on developer side, so delaying and abandoning risk become higher.
agape_ian
post Aug 26 2008, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 26 2008, 03:21 PM)
Existing properties has one advantage over new developments ie. lesser risk. That's why people willing to pay some premium over it, as those buyers don't need to face the risk of developer delaying the project, or worst still developer abandon the project. Especially nowadays, construction materials price had been rising fast which put a lot presssure on developer side, so delaying and abandoning risk become higher.
*
Agree. In addition to that, the new developments are often not in the prime location. Very rare I would say.
humbble
post Aug 29 2008, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Aug 26 2008, 02:47 PM)
I think he just bought at RM325,000....
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I really bought it at Rm230,000-00.The problem is, I bought my MRTA which costed me around 20k.If I sell the house like Rm300,000. What would be my profit like? The MRTA cannot carry forward to other properites? I am very sure this Rm325k is cost driven due to high building material cost instead of demand driven. As for IDR.....erm....I work in the PTP .Infrastructure not much changes. I bought it because Jusco going to be ready by end of this year,it is 22km away from my work place, and 5km from my in-laws house.The location seems perfecto to me. My house is very small only 20x65. I was fooled by the show house as the show house feature semi-d style.sigh...Houses around that area still available from Bank lelong but my wife said fengshui not good,stay already will shuay,have to repair and repaint,lawyer fees..blah blah...


humbble
joe_mamak
post Aug 30 2008, 02:16 AM

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Thanks for the clarification.
muscaa
post Sep 4 2008, 03:51 PM

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Damper for property

The Star
Tuesday September 2, 2008

By DAVID TAN

Possible BLR hike to negatively impact market

PENANG: The property market in the country may not be sustainable for long due to the possibility of an increase in the base lending interest rates.

KPMG partner Ooi Kok Seng said the low interest rates had been maintained for the past five years for housing loans, which were very attractive as they were 0% to 2% below the base lending rate, which was about 6%.

“Since the capital market has been sluggish and bank interest low, many people have invested in properties instead.
ooi Kok Seng

“Thus, any adjustment in the interest rates by Bank Negara to curb inflation may negatively impact the property market as there would be forced selling of properties,” he told StarBiz.

Ooi was giving his views at The Star Property and Home Fair Penang 2008 roundtable discussion in Penang recently. The three-day exhibition from Sept 5 will be held at the Penang International Sports Arena.

Another participant at the roundtable discussion, Dr Lim Mah Hui, said the factors preceding a banking and financial crisis usually involved too much money flowing into the system either from foreign investors or due to the central bank’s policy of being too loose.

“This invariably leads to two types of bubble. The first is the property bubble while the other concerns the stock. It has happened in the past and it’s happening today. The cost of cleaning up a banking crisis is enormous. Developers should not just build and build to make more money.

“Thus, it’s okay to take into account that we should not overdevelop. The current loan margin of 70% is fine. If one does not have money, then one shouldn’t be buying property,” he said.

Lim is a senior fellow attached to the Asian Public Intellectuals fellowship.

Meanwhile, Joint Business Council Malaysia chairman Datuk Faudzi Naim was more optimistic.

“I believe property prices in Penang will hit RM750 to RM1,000 per sq ft by 2010. This is because there are foreign investors who are interested in Penang due to its positioning as a hub for education and medical services.

“Last year I helped out in promoting Penang properties in Medan. Within a year, investors from northern Sumatra came over and bought properties worth RM30mil to RM40mil.

“These investors always compare Penang with Singapore as a choice destination for second homes,” he said.

However, Faudzi said developers must now also provide high quality professional management services for high-rise properties.

“Foreign house buyers want professional management services to look after their investments when they are away. The Government must also, of course, beef up the local security situation, and improve on the hygiene and traffic conditions,” he said.

Faudzi also said the state government should stop making developers build affordable housing.

“When developers fulfill their affordable housing obligation, they have to cross-subsidise from their other projects. This inevitably leads to the high selling prices of the properties in the non-affordable category.”

He sad the state government should look into redeveloping certain districts on the mainland as growth centres and as an area for affordable housing.

Another participant Tropical Resort Lifestyle Sdn Bhd managing director Ishihara Shotaro said Penang had to stop advertising and promoting itself as an island resort with nice beaches.

“The waters are dirty. This has started to have an impact on tourist arrivals from Japan and Korea.

“Singapore and Hong Kong don’t promote themselves as island with nice beaches, so tourists also do not have such expectation when they visit Singapore or Hong Kong,” he said.

“But Penang does and this leaves the tourists going home disappointed.”
simplesmile
post Sep 15 2008, 11:40 AM

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So.. does anyone know if the recession is coming?
Does anyone know of the country's job, manufacturing, service and consumer spend data?
joe_mamak
post Sep 15 2008, 12:25 PM

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Newspaper reports say Exports are up.

Consuming spending is down. <- don't need newspaper also can see already. laugh.gif





muscaa
post Sep 30 2008, 02:39 PM

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Sounds like we are heading to recession??

Bailout bill defeat could cause painful recession

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/ap_on_bi_ge/no_deal_economy

By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP

Sept 30, 2008

WASHINGTON - The fallout from the vote against a bailout package for the U.S. financial system may well be lasting pain for the economy.

The House's stunning defeat of a $700 billion package urgently championed by President Bush, sent shock waves through Capitol Hill, the trading floors on Wall Street and the Oval Office on Monday.

"An economic 9/11," warned Terry Connelly, dean of Golden Gate University's Ageno School of Business, of the potential fallout. As the package went down, panicked investors caused the Dow Jones industrials to nosedive nearly 780 points in their largest one-day point drop ever. Markets across Asia fell sharply Tuesday in the wake of the Wall Street downdraft.

Lawmakers defeated the legislation by a 228-205 vote, although Democratic and Republicans leaders and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson all pledged to keep working for a package acceptable to all sides.

In the meantime, the economic wreckage that the administration and Congress have warned about — rising unemployment, shrinking nest eggs and prolonged recession — might not happen immediately, but that doesn't mean it won't happen at all.

"This is like the advice you get from the doctor who says you should quit smoking," said Robert Brusca, chief economist at Fact and Opinion Economics in New York. "You know he's right. But if you don't, you're not going to die tomorrow and you're not going to die next week. But at some time, it's probably going to get you."

For now, Treasury was expected to work with other government agencies, including the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., to deal with problems on a case-by-case basis.

"Our tool kit is substantial but insufficient" without a bailout, Paulson warned.

There are some steps the Federal Reserve can take to cushion damage from the worst credit crisis since the Great Depression.

The Fed, which has been providing billions in short-term loans to help banks overcome credit stresses, could keep expanding those loans in an effort to spur financial institutions to lend more freely again. And, it could keep working with other central banks to inject billions into troubled financial markets overseas.

Also, the Fed could make it easier for banks and investment firms to draw emergency loans from the central bank by expanding the type of collateral they pledge to back those loans.

And, if the credit crisis were to turn even worse, the Fed also has the power in extreme circumstances to expand emergency lending to other types of companies and even to individuals if they are unable to secure adequate credit from other banking institutions.

The Fed also could do an about-face and start cutting its key interest rate again. The Fed in June halted an aggressive rate-cutting campaign and has kept its key rate since at 2 percent.

While some Fed officials doubt that another rate reduction would do much to boost confidence and persuade banks to begin lending again, Brian Bethune, economist at Global Insight, insists a deep cut would pack a powerful punch. It would lower the prime lending rate, now at 5 percent, that serves as a benchmark for credit card rates and many other types of loans.

Even if the bailout were enacted by Congress and actually worked, many predicted the economy will probably shrink in the final quarter of this year and in the first quarter of next year, meeting the classic definition of a recession. If Congress doesn't act, analysts, who were scrambling to downgrade their economic forecasts, believe those contractions will be deeper.

The unemployment rate — now at a five-year high of 6.1 percent — is expected to hit 7 or 7.5 percent by late 2009, which would be the highest since after the 1990-91 recession. Some economists say the jobless rate could rise even more.

"Undoubtedly, both businesses and consumers will run for cover. They will clam up," said economist Ken Mayland, president of ClearView Economics. "The snowball hitting the economy will pick up speed and gather mass."

More banks could fail, too. In the second quarter that ended in June, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. estimated 117 banks and thrifts were in trouble, the most since 2003. The threat of more banks failing in the U.S. and abroad forced the government to act swiftly.

The tanking stock market and falling home values — the single-biggest assets for most Americans — have taken big bites out of people's wealth and their retirement accounts even as high energy and food prices are shrinking paychecks. Consumers are major shapers of the U.S. economy. If they retrench, the country will go into a tailspin.

The bailout plan was intended to revive jittery and fragile banks on Wall Street and Main Street by buying billions upon billions of their worst mortgage-related assets so that lending, the oxygen of the American economy, would flow freely again.

"People are going to go home and look at their 401(k)'s and not be very happy, and these are not just people from New York, but Iowa and everywhere else. This bill is meant for everyone — not just Wall Street but Main Street," said longtime New York Stock Exchange floor trader Theodore Weisberg.
Savlon
post Sep 30 2008, 06:14 PM

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Recession is already happening in the US/UK, depending how you define recession.

Malaysia...dunno yet...but probably will come later...than sooner
cstkl1
post Oct 1 2008, 01:39 AM

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dude current situation in the us...

better if u understand it before posting a lot of rubbish..
here is a very good example in the world.. economist are all idiots..
all the front line traders/FC will tell u this

dont worry the bill will be passed. its currently suspended.. not dismissed..
second property prices.. are not overvalued.. its just that the toxic loans that are backed up by the assets are undervalued with all the AAA bonds etc in the US/Europe is having a credit crunch issue..

NOW IS THE TIME TO BUY!!!!...in the next few months...
not places like NY/Cali... places like florida/san fran etc...
there will be a lot of bargain...

this is best time for ppl to make their one of a time retirement to settle for the next few generations..

also taxpayer aka us residents are stupid.. they dont realize with the bill pass they have a great position to make money with the tax payers money.

what i am worried is there will be more regulate short selling till things consolidate in the US or they will be market manipulation now with the future contracts on the indexes. can u believe that CME lost the Russel to ICE.. sishh..
anyway reason for this is because wall street now is more regulated..

i currently very liquid and so are my clients all positioning our self for bargain buys..
u should be to
always be a contrarian when the world is in a f*ck up

This post has been edited by cstkl1: Oct 1 2008, 01:42 AM
dreamer101
post Oct 1 2008, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(muscaa @ Sep 30 2008, 02:39 PM)
Sounds like we are heading to recession??

Bailout bill defeat could cause painful recession

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080930/ap_on_bi_ge/no_deal_economy

By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP

Sept 30, 2008

WASHINGTON - The fallout from the vote against a bailout package for the U.S. financial system may well be lasting pain for the economy.

The House's stunning defeat of a $700 billion package urgently championed by President Bush, sent shock waves through Capitol Hill, the trading floors on Wall Street and the Oval Office on Monday.


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muscaa,

To most people on the main street USA, we are in recession now. So, nobody believe that the bail out bill will save USA from recession. In fact, most people believe it will not be 700 billions. It is more like a few trillions. The bailout bill will either cause inflation (too much USD) or additional taxes to normal people or both. People in main street will suffer from this bill. Only people in financial industry want this bill.

So, it is still 50 - 50 whether the bill will pass.

Dreamer
cstkl1
post Oct 1 2008, 08:19 PM

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QUOTE(dreamer101 @ Oct 1 2008, 08:14 AM)
muscaa,

To most people on the main street USA, we are in recession now.  So, nobody believe that the bail out bill will save USA from recession.  In fact, most people believe it will not be 700 billions.  It is more like a few trillions.  The bailout bill will either cause inflation (too much USD) or additional taxes to normal people or both.  People in main street will suffer from this bill. Only people in financial industry want this bill.

So, it is still 50 - 50 whether the bill will pass.

Dreamer
*
righto..in some sense but wrong in the whole..

the bailout is to stablize the current sitution..

yet a lot of ppl are still blaming wall street for creating futures/options contracts on a lot of this sub-prime linked instruments. structure products.. etc..
but ultimately.. it goes back to the basic product.. the assets which backs them up.

if this bill does not pass.. its going to hit mainstreet hard... on the 4th quater earnings.
already banks linked to HSBC are not fully disclosing their write offs and the total amount of toxic loan exposure.
the worst is yet to come.

the 700billion will also create a opportunity for tax payers money to actually profit from the current situation.

all i can say..
guess what folks if u dont back them up..
the more a lot of ppl are going to be make from short selling all the futures contracts indeces in the world.
and since short selling in the us is not so regulated..
the ppl in the US.. with most off their money is banking on longing on the market.. is the one thats going to pay us
and we will us that money to buy all their undervalued assets in the US..
talk about double profits.. its a win win situation...

last post..
ciao



dreamer101
post Oct 1 2008, 08:32 PM

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QUOTE(cstkl1 @ Oct 1 2008, 08:19 PM)
righto..in some sense but wrong in the whole..

the bailout is to stablize the current sitution..

yet a lot of ppl are still blaming wall street for creating futures/options contracts on a lot of this sub-prime linked instruments. structure products.. etc..
but ultimately.. it goes back to the basic product.. the assets which backs them up.

if this bill does not pass.. its going to hit mainstreet hard... on the 4th quater earnings.
already banks linked to HSBC are not fully disclosing their write offs and the total amount of toxic loan exposure.
the worst is yet to come.

the 700billion will also create a opportunity for tax payers money to actually profit from the current situation.

all i can say..
guess what folks if u dont back them up..
the more a lot of ppl are going to be make from short selling all the futures contracts indeces in the world.
and since short selling in the us is not so regulated..
the ppl in the US.. with most off their money is banking on longing on the market.. is the one thats going to pay us
and we will us that money to buy all their undervalued assets in the US..
talk about double profits.. its  a win win situation...

last post..
ciao
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cstkl1,

<<the bailout is to stablize the current sitution..>>

1) Which does not solve the problem. The credit bubble has to burst. Meanwhile, tax payers get stuck with a bill of at least 700 billions. The true number is at least a few trillions. And, the longer that you delay the bursting of the bubble, the more painful that it is.

2) Every week that this bill delayed, a few large financial institution will go bankrupt. This is GOOD. If you delay this further until after 11/4, you do not have to rescue anyone. They have all gone bankrupt. So, why this is bad?? Problem will solve itself if you do nothing.

Dreamer



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