awesome movie...


very nice way to 'cheat' the previous movies and series by just making it into alternate reality. they were just obvious with it with the multiple cheating stuff in the movie.

as preposterous the red matter was, the movie is still highly entertaining. are they making it into a tv or movie series?

sadly.. i enjoyed this movie more than wolverine

haha but yeah kudos to jj abrams, he did good

very much hoping they make a sequel soon

nice

i might just get it

correction... i think the red matter was inside spocks ship all along.
when kelvin rammed narada, the red matter wasnt there.

25 years later when spock's ship came through the black hole, they captured the ship, spock and the red matter inside it. but the red matter had been inside spocks ship all along.

when young spock rammed the prime spocks ship into narada, the red matter was still inside and thus ignited when it crashed into narada.

wth is the red matter anyway. its just plain preposterous.. so much for sci-fi

thanks for the explanation... i know what it meant to do..
i just meant that its preposterous something of this sort could exist in reality.
something so tiny having huge amounts of power in it..
hell.. if they're so advanced they can utilize it to power cities and worlds...
anyhow,, what i mean is the idea that a single liquid can form a black hole..
would love to hear some theories on it..

hmm interesting take there zenix...
ill just admit u know more than more than me in general science.
please elaborate further if you can on this theory if it does involve fusion/ fission of the sort.

i think what boggles me is that i just dont know the true nature of what the supposed red matter is... which is why its an easy escape for the story or a 'cheat' to move the story forward.

if just throwing ideas around, maybe its similar to the properties of a white star before it goes supernova or turning to a black hole. blah blah blah... i dont think our level of understanding currently can explain it. which is what makes the red matter more interesting, perplexing and for me atleast, preposterous. just coz we dont know what it actually is and how it interacts, etc.

alanyuppie, im well aware of the nuclear weapons man has produced and used. but its just back to the issue what is actually the red matter is.

a tiny drop can create a black hole that can devour a sun (if i remember correctly from the beginning of movie, for what its supposed to be used for). but then the whole vat of it creates the same size black hole when it crashes into narada. is there a limit to its size and how big it can go? why a 2d black hole and not spherical? why didnt create multiple black holes if it reacted independently, assuming it grow bigger with more of it. why not supermassize black holes? blah blah blah on and on...

what is this supposed red matter is that can create this black hole by fusing with nuclear power?

and yeah, science fiction can tweak or exaggerate theories but i didnt say i never enjoyed the movie.. i enjoyed it a lot.. but its just bugging me a bit about this red matter, what it actually is. how can it hold so much energy, rip apart space and time continuum. blah blah blah...

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 24 2009, 05:26 PM

no.. i guess not fully.. i just understand in so far as much of nat geo that i watch. im not a scientist. haha.. so its best to talk in laymans terms... im not trying to make myself look smart here, but im opening up for debate on the merits of some stuff... not just accept it point blank.

no... i dont know what a tricorder is.. i dont watch trekkie series.. sorry. so probly cant talk much of their whole history and all their technology/theories.

decalitihium, no i did not know that.. maybe i missed it in this thread.. but it would be first time i heard it. is it a real mineral/element whatnot?

im no expert on star trek but if its strongly rooted in science as some people claim it, the fiction wont go too far off.

anyway, my points above and questions above remains, regarding what is red matter supposed to be, how its supposed to function etc. and the issues about black holes.

i made a boo-boo above, i think its the sun that dies out and either goes supernova or turn to a white dwarf star... and then somehow can turn to black hole.

i can actually deduce that red matter is not nuclear.. since supposedly its thrown off into nuclear reactions (the sun at beginning, and vulcans planet core later). it reacts to nuclear power.. or maybe just fire... coz i quite dont understand how spocks ship ramming into narada can trigger the black hole in absence of nuclear power/fire or whatever.. but then again i forgot what that huge laser making holes drilling planet is based on what power. blah blah blah...

i was thinking what is the nature of red matter. a big star that dies out can create black holes, but smaller stars dies out as white dwarfs. so its function, its essence is something that is similar to a huge star... but what? how certain are we that minerals or whatever that causes huge stars to turn to black holes? can we be certain thats what decalithium does? or isnt black holes created by big stars are partly if not all caused by the huge gravitational pull of the aforementioned star before it went bust? or is it something more .... is 'elemental' the word? is it huge chunks of gravity or whatever that creates a chain reaction with nuclear power?
so if a dying star dies, huge gravity is present and tries to absorb everything around it, and if strong enough it becomes a black hole. small star= small gravity= white dwarf.
so are we to presume that red matter creates the 'moment' where the nuclear fusion dries out, no more hydrogen to burn, and thus creates the environment for a black hole to exist.
what is the red matters true nature?

haha... anyhow.. this is fun... chill laa.. ur talking like i hit a nerve or something..
isnt this is what star trek or whatever science based shows are about? to get people interested in science?

do u have any thoughts on the matter regarding red matter?

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Added on May 24, 2009, 10:47 pmbtw... i forgot to mentione another qualm regarding red matter..

why didnt it interact or combust or reacted to the black hole when it entered it... which gives more light to its nature and more questions too...

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 24 2009, 10:47 PM

nice answer...

but thats the thing bout sci-fi, you can make up answers by correlating stuff to one another, saying how it reacts etc. its not hard-science which is why one should not take it as such and just accept it.

i guess from your answer, this red matter idea is not exclusive to this movie, which i though it was.

i was going to go to the anti/ dark matter stuff of what starts a black hole, but then as you pointed out, there may be other ways for black holes to appear and no just by stars dying/blowing up.

but im not sure if we can call red matter as anti matter, as its clearly liquid and its origin is an ore= matter.
red matter interacting with nuclear is still in a 'matter' realm...

i just find it hard that a simple, still a matter, can cause a black hole. a huge monster of gravity power which when the star dies out, exists when there is a vacuum, or lack of activity. which begs the question, does anti-matter cause it?

anyway, u would just go back to red matter is bizarre, can u direct me to any materials online that can shed light on this red matter. also the part of what other things causes black holes / wormholes instead of exploding stars..

red matter, i think by the end of movie when spocks ship crashed into narada, the red matter broke free and just became volatile and unstable. without interacting with nuclear power... so which is which...
if it doesnt even need nuclear power, then nero drilling a hole through vulcans planet is just for show lar...
couldve just dropped a droplet of red matter on surface also would suffice.

also, if its not anti-matter, i think it should go bigger. regardless if it wasnt big enough, some of the smaller still growing black holes wouldve passed thru the wormhole possibly but still exist and still grow there, so it may either make multiple black holes lapping over each other in various time and location or as from what i understand from nat geo it can only go bigger. its like throwing a bucket of water and a glass of water together, but in the end you get the volume of both. (if we assume this red matter will create a black hole with wormhole like it did for spock) and another example, when the supposed andromeda (if im not mistaken) galaxy crashes with our milky way, the bigger andromeda will not cancel out milky ways black hole, but both would still gravitate to each other and form a bigger black hole.
so just 2 points to consider.

anyway, if we simply say this new movie will take a lot of liberties then it just means i may be right, some things are preposterous to begin with. its like making something up, just to fill up the gap or tie loose ends. it sounds nice but can it really work in reality, in the real universe? anyway good talk and points by all, i dont think theres a definite answer as yet. postulating that its like anti-matter is nice but would that really be the case. if its not, what other possibilities might there be?

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Added on May 25, 2009, 10:32 amyeah... going into those phasers and stuff is a different (almost) subject altogether... not really interested in it. slightly more if not, just, interested with astronomy related stuff... so hope u dont mind i just ask about red matter all da way

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 25 2009, 10:32 AM

thanks for the info..

yep.. what i said regarding black holes is just regurgitating what is said from those nat geo shows... so i dont think i strayed any.. just mebe not as informed or as well-read... but it was in terms of black holes... not the red matter issue. ur analogy of coz fits coz thats the explanation given by them. u need more of nuclear matter to make it bigger.

still, my problem lies in that we still are not sure what is the mysterious black holes. most of my points above are in terms of real world science... not trekkie science...
scientists dont know whats in the singularity. wormhole is hypothesized. dont know what causes blackholes (or mebe i havent read or watched enough), even though it may be after effect of large stars exploding, but why does the blackhole appear? blah blah blah

still... my questions werent fully satisfied... coz im not convinced red matter can cause black holes if interacted with nuclear matter..
in trek universe, sure it can work, but in real life... well... thats what my beef is all along. if it existed in the real world, what does it do specifically.. well... if we knew, thatd mean humankind have cracked the secrets of black holes, its origin and ending... and i just dont think we're there yet in terms of understanding this 'force' called black holes.

i assume i will get the same response from u and this will go in circles. so i will give u da benefit of the doubt and try to read up on some things u mentioned.

btw... i did think of that jellyfish carrying along nuclear matter as well.. or atleast what i thought was easier to bring along nuclear power so can control where and when to ignite the black hole... no need get too close to the sun.. and no need to drill to the vulcans planet core... anyways...

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Added on May 25, 2009, 3:55 pmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat

read a bit bout it..
not really sure i can accept the part of multi-worlds...
its like all the multi-verse ideas...
is the universe inside a bubble. does a big bang occur outside our universe creating another universe..would a wormhole take us to another dimension/time/universe.. so on so forth.. which is right, if any is right? but these is all straying from the question of red matter that i posed ..

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Added on May 25, 2009, 4:04 pmbtw,, i did not think red matter is a simple matter (if u meant by matter - as matter, or as an issue'

it would be complex which is why i asked the question how could it trigger or help cause the black hole. theres a whole flurry of questions for it.
does the red matter itself composed of vast magnetic or gravity energy? is it like a singularity or whatever that unleashes its vast gravitational energy once opened? or simply is it like a ballon filled with water that releases it once theres a leak.
or does red matter interect with nuclear matter and from those chain reactions itself/themselves, create the black hole.
or is the red matter interact with nuclear matter to artificially create the 'moment' or environment and is thus just a catalyst to create this moment where black holes may appear. simulating the conditions. so on and so forth.

im a visual guy.. i may not give u equations or mathematical terms or whatever but my questions are valid..
im reasking if the red matter existed in our universe, what would it actually do?
because to know that, would imply u know how to create a black hole, its essence, its origin, its force, its structure.. like what is gravity that cannot be touched but felt its tug on us...
black holes are still a mystery i think...

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Added on May 25, 2009, 4:10 pmoh wait... u mentioned that bit with nuclear matter.. sure.. thats in trek universe and their explanation..
its like me saying i take a cup of hot milo and if i put in sugar, it will create a tornado or lightning ... it sounds preposterous but hey, if its in an imginary universe, this science and outcome can be possible.
so in real world terms, forget about trek universe. what would a red matter in real world be?

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 25 2009, 04:10 PM

im trying to make discussion here dude...
just use imagination a bit..
like my questions above... its more to find out nature of black holes...all this issues with red matter..
u cant get answers without questions...
anyways.... i may just have too much free time

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 25 2009, 06:16 PM

i am.. im imagining what would the red matter be in real world. im not saying it has to be in the form of red matter. im saying of its properties, what other things could resemble its functions or effects if any.
for example, what other things could possibly be like red matter which co-interacts with nuclear matter to become black hole.
or if the other possibility is that it just causes the vacuum environment after a huge star went kaput, what would it be. could it be dark / anti-matter? could it be something else.
im expanding the question and notion of red matter. it doesnt have to BE red matter specifically. like u can create steam from boiling water, or u can find and create steam from any other sources...

whats with all the kinda elitist/action attitude anyway, read up a few things wanna act so big shot, try to come up with something original. why don't cha.
i said red matter is preposterous in real world to begin with, in the end u backed it up saying its all made up science but rooted in current theories, possibilities and whatnot. but then i was expanding from the idea what would something similar to red matter be, and could it cause a black hole. hence the questions and few different theories of what other things it may be, not limiting to the a (red matter) + b (nuclear matter) route.

when i wondered bout the red matter, i didnt just stop at saying its preposterous.i actually tried to imagine what else could explain it or something close to it. the later stuff was on the question of what can cause black holes. maybe its the way i write, maybe its not too explicit but i wasnt just limiting my replies to red matter. more of the issue was the end effect the black hole. could red matter really do it, could it really exist and create a black hole in our universe. and then the various questions, how exactly does black hole forms? does red matter replicate anything from the theory. or anything else for that matter.. blah blah

read thru again my various posts if u want.

in the end, iprobably was going off topic talking about black holes, but thats what i was getting into.
simple terms, i dont believe red matter can cause black holes in our universe. and then i tried to imagine what other possibilities for black holes to appear. blah blah blah

id say try to keep up, but then its probly my writing and jumping here and there that confuses people

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Added on May 27, 2009, 1:31 amwell as azarimy has pointed out in trek universe it would make sense. and it could make sense in our universe if black hole has anything to do with matter.
yes, in our real world, when a huge star explodes it can turn to black hole but its an after-effect. not a direct cause of the hydrogen burning etc. i.e. it happens after theres no matter, not by matters 'fission-ing' or 'fusion-ing' etc.
its a huge gravity, some say its like a sinkhole to another universe or dimension or whatever.
it could be like u burning something in a closed bottle, only when the fire runs out and its low on pressure or whatever the top/ or whatever covers the top gets sucked inside and equalizes pressure of outside and inside bottle.
so a simple theory suggestion is it something similar? could the fire of nuclear burning and when its gone, the exodus of it creates a gap of some'thing', maybe matter, maybe gravity, or maybe a gap in the 'other' dimension and causes it to equalize itself in that space. or is it that each matter has mass and gravity but when the matter gets destroyed (hydrogen burned up), whats left is its gravity (energy maybe= and energy is not destroyed but transfered etc) that may or not be composed of anti-matter or something of the sort, and needs matter to be whole, so it sucks the matter around it in the form of black hole.. is that why positrons are emitted out from black holes?

yadda yadda yadda...

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everyone else seems to be so well read so give some ideas lar, promote healthy thinking... all just simply rely on what others said... only zenix replies and comments are unemotional, and un-condescending so i thank you for that.

my thinking is more like describing a scenario, saying a person crosses the street then got hit by a car and the car dented and the person flung out. mine is not so nitty gritty to explain each muscle that moves in the person, or the cars make and model.. anyhow i think most people get my point. i may not able to describe isotopes or fusion or the rotational angle of the earth and moon, but i can say that the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits earth. simple. layman. terms.

This post has been edited by sshahar9: May 27 2009, 01:40 AM

how much is the BD set with that awesome ship statue?

damn... dat ship statue is damn awesome lah wei...
fuuhh... seriously considering the set...

was 'warping' to see this movie in 2012 but delayed to 2013.... haish