Jul 3 2008, 12:46 PM, updated 18y ago
-I just stumbled upon this on The Inquirer: Nvidia "opens can of whoop-ass" on itself. It points to here; quotes below:
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On July 2, 2008, NVIDIA Corporation stated that it would take a $150 million to $200 million charge against cost of revenue to cover anticipated customer warranty, repair, return, replacement and other consequential costs and expenses arising from a weak die/packaging material set in certain versions of our previous generation MCP and GPU products used in notebook systems. All newly manufactured products and all products currently shipping in volume have a different and more robust material set.
The previous generation MCP and GPU products that are impacted were included in a number of notebook products that were shipped and sold in significant quantities. Certain notebook configurations of these MCP and GPU products are failing in the field at higher than normal rates. While we have not been able to determine a root cause for these failures, testing suggests a weak material set of die/package combination, system thermal management designs, and customer use patterns are contributing factors. We have developed and have made available for download a software driver to cause the system fan to begin operation at the powering up of the system and reduce the thermal stress on these chips. We have also recommended to our customers that they consider changing the thermal management of the MCP and GPU products in their notebook system designs. We intend to fully support our customers in their repair and replacement of these impacted MCP and GPU products that fail.
We have begun discussions with our supply chain regarding reimbursement to us for some or all of the costs we have incurred and may incur in the future relating to the weak material set. We will also seek to access our insurance coverage. We continue to not see any abnormal failure rates in any systems using NVIDIA products other than certain notebook configurations. However, we are continuing to test and otherwise investigate other products. There can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products.
-So, I think now we could guess why we see so many new Presario (mostly V3xxx series; not sure about F7xx series); it appears NVIDIA IGP (chipsets) are the root cause of the problems... The previous generation MCP and GPU products that are impacted were included in a number of notebook products that were shipped and sold in significant quantities. Certain notebook configurations of these MCP and GPU products are failing in the field at higher than normal rates. While we have not been able to determine a root cause for these failures, testing suggests a weak material set of die/package combination, system thermal management designs, and customer use patterns are contributing factors. We have developed and have made available for download a software driver to cause the system fan to begin operation at the powering up of the system and reduce the thermal stress on these chips. We have also recommended to our customers that they consider changing the thermal management of the MCP and GPU products in their notebook system designs. We intend to fully support our customers in their repair and replacement of these impacted MCP and GPU products that fail.
We have begun discussions with our supply chain regarding reimbursement to us for some or all of the costs we have incurred and may incur in the future relating to the weak material set. We will also seek to access our insurance coverage. We continue to not see any abnormal failure rates in any systems using NVIDIA products other than certain notebook configurations. However, we are continuing to test and otherwise investigate other products. There can be no assurance that we will not discover defects in other MCP or GPU products.
-By the way, NVIDIA stated in the above article that they will reimburse the partners (such as HP) for this issue. So, maybe HP can replace the laptops' motherboard after this. Time to extend to extend warranty, anyone?
[UPDATE on 5th July 2008]
-Some more news from Digitimes: Nvidia contract makers in Taiwan low-key over defective chip reports.
-Apparently it's GeForce 8500M la... But it could also be more than what have been announced.
[UPDATE on 8th July 2008]
-More updates on this matter from The Inquirer : Nvidia plays the meltdown blame game.
-According to them (The Inquirer), it seems about 24 models of HP laptops/notebooks are affected! Wow! And according to them again, a lawsuit from HP is pending now. A link to a page on HP website that supposed describing the lawsuit have been taken down, apparently. Sigh...
-Anyway, read the whole story to understand this issue (in summary, according to The Inquirer nVidia is blaming others - including HP engineering department - on this issue).
[UPDATE on 10th July 2008]
-Here's another update scoop from The Inquirer: All Nvidia G84 and G86s are bad.
-In summary, (according to them) all G84 & G86-based parts will die sooner or later, including desktop & mobile variants. Also on that page, HP seems to issue BIOS updates for HP Pavilion dv2000/dv6000/dv9000 and Compaq Presario v3000/v6000 Series Notebook PCs; not sure this also nVidia-related...
-Changed the topic's title from "Why Recent Compaq Presarios (AMD) Have Problems..." to "Why Some Laptops with NVIDIA Parts Have Problems.". This will reflects the real issue better, I think.
[UPDATE on 29th July 2008]
-The Inquirer reported that:Ten Dell models have defective Nvidia GPUs.
-Somewhat similar news from Tom's Hardware: Dell Releases BIOS Updates for Failing Nvidia GPUs.
-And lastly, Digitimes: Channel vendors demand card makers recall faulty Nvidia products.
[UPDATE on 31st July 2008]
-Direct links to:
(1) HP Pavilion dv2000/dv6000 and Compaq Presario v3000/v6000 Series Notebook PCs - HP Limited Warranty Service Enhancement.
(2) NVIDIA GPU Update for Dell Laptop Owners.
[UPDATE on 27th August 2008]
-From The Inquirer (again):
1. Nvidia changes desktop G86 for no reason.
2. Jen-Hsun on Nvidia's bad chips.
[UPDATE on 2nd September 2008]
-Now, now, finally some detailed and reasonable explanations for all these messes. Look likes Charlie really did his homework (research) to bring these up.
-First, (Part 1) Why Nvidia's chips are defective:
QUOTE
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The problem is extremely complex and defies a simple explanation. It involves multiple poor choices, multiple engineering failures, and likely a few bad accounting choices. This piece could also have been entitled: "More than you ever wanted to know about bumping, and then some: How not to do things". But we will simplify the science and technical details as much as possible to make it accessible, so some things may be oversimplified.
..........
The end result of the failures is that bumps crack between the bump and the substrate on a chip, not on the bump to die side. When this happens to a signal bump, game over for the GPU or MCP. What is a bump, die and substrate? Why is it happening? That is a long and technical story.
.....
-So, you have to read the entire article. The problem is extremely complex and defies a simple explanation. It involves multiple poor choices, multiple engineering failures, and likely a few bad accounting choices. This piece could also have been entitled: "More than you ever wanted to know about bumping, and then some: How not to do things". But we will simplify the science and technical details as much as possible to make it accessible, so some things may be oversimplified.
..........
The end result of the failures is that bumps crack between the bump and the substrate on a chip, not on the bump to die side. When this happens to a signal bump, game over for the GPU or MCP. What is a bump, die and substrate? Why is it happening? That is a long and technical story.
.....
-Next, (Part 2) Why Nvidia's duff chips are due to shoddy engineering:
QUOTE
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Let's go down the checklist for Nvidia. High thermal load? Check. Unforgiving high lead bumps. Check. Eutectic pads? Check. Low Tg underfill? Check. Hot spots that exceed the underfill Tg? Check. If you are thinking this looks bad, you are right, expensive too.
.....
-Again, you should read the entire article to fully understand the whole point. According to them, Part 3 will be coming shortly. As as disclaimer, all responsibility of the authenticity of this facts are belongs to The Inquirer.Let's go down the checklist for Nvidia. High thermal load? Check. Unforgiving high lead bumps. Check. Eutectic pads? Check. Low Tg underfill? Check. Hot spots that exceed the underfill Tg? Check. If you are thinking this looks bad, you are right, expensive too.
.....
[UPDATE on 3rd September 2008]
-Another update from The Inquirer: the promised final part - (Part 3) What Nvidia should do now.
QUOTE
..........
In the end, it comes down to Nvidia screwing up badly on package engineering and testing, then trying as best they can to bury the problem while passing the buck. It appears that every Nvidia 65nm and 55nm part with high lead bumps and/or low Tg underfill are defective, it is just a question of how defective they are, and when they will die.
As far as we are able to tell, contrary to Nvidia's vague statements blaming suppliers, there are no materials defects at work here. Every material they used lived up to the claimed specs, and every material they used would have done the job while kept within the advertised parameters. Nvidia's engineering failures put overdue stress on the parts, and several failures compounded to make two generations of defective parts. The suppliers and subcontractors did exactly what they were told, Nvidia just told them to do the wrong thing.
When it started talking about this, Nvidia failed crisis management 101, and the coverup shows it doesn't care about consumers, just its bottom line. NV is doing exactly the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, and the lawyers circling with class action paperwork in hand are going to eat them alive
.........
-Read the rest of the article to find out.In the end, it comes down to Nvidia screwing up badly on package engineering and testing, then trying as best they can to bury the problem while passing the buck. It appears that every Nvidia 65nm and 55nm part with high lead bumps and/or low Tg underfill are defective, it is just a question of how defective they are, and when they will die.
As far as we are able to tell, contrary to Nvidia's vague statements blaming suppliers, there are no materials defects at work here. Every material they used lived up to the claimed specs, and every material they used would have done the job while kept within the advertised parameters. Nvidia's engineering failures put overdue stress on the parts, and several failures compounded to make two generations of defective parts. The suppliers and subcontractors did exactly what they were told, Nvidia just told them to do the wrong thing.
When it started talking about this, Nvidia failed crisis management 101, and the coverup shows it doesn't care about consumers, just its bottom line. NV is doing exactly the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, and the lawyers circling with class action paperwork in hand are going to eat them alive
.........
Regards.
This post has been edited by Musafir_86: Sep 3 2008, 11:50 AM
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How come? What do you said to them (HP Service Centre)?
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