hi guys,i just take acca f4 n f5.but i want to self study.
is there anybody have the textbook?cos i want to self study.
and the book n studymaterial is expensive.
can i borrow,photostate and return back to u?
cos i desperately want tp study,but financially not stable to support myself in college.

here i thinking to take these 2 papers for coming sitting too. (hope i can do it)
i searching for one book of F4.. the rest i've got.. erm..i guess that your location is not that near to me right? Wish you luck!

i c..
umm..say my lecturer has gone through the legal system part, but he explained only several parts in details like the sources of Malaysian law, foundamental liberties, subsidiary legislation. The rest of this part, i think, he gave brief explanation, asked us to read ourselves and then ended the topic..
so..does it mean that those parts which he is not reli very focus on, we can pay less attention to it..like juz read it and hav a vague concept and that's it?

umm..so F4 mainly requires us to memorise right? there's no any application of knowledge we learnt?

thz =)

Those area you mentioned is "popular" area for exam (tested more than 2 times), so need extra attention.
Other areas is equally important but if hou time constraint this areas are the one you need to prioritise.
If you can remember the keywords is enough already (max 10 marks for this topic) ie : english law is divided into equity & common law.

As an accountant you need a certain degree of law to work comfortably & efficiently. Imagine little / minor area of law you phone the cpmpany's
lawyer or external one (not cheap you know). Plus accountant must know "everything about something" in the organisation to disclose it on the
financial statements.
You must know what to do & don't. Ie : cannot simply reduce share capital, no loan to directors,.....etc. Let say company borrow money from
1 of its many directors. As an accountant (auditor) you know its wrong but you need to hear explanation of company (if any) to justify its actions.

In exam, I can't really think of much application since questions are pretty generic (same every year with minor changes). Since law are not commonly amended like accounting standards, they almost ask the same thing every year.
Its almost like mathemathic theory : past year question (1 + 2 + 3 = 6)
this year question (2 + 1 + 3 = 6)
At most they only change the wordings or names.

Part A : 7 question (all copy & paste)
Part B : 3 scenario based question (basicly the same also but a little twist to it)
- 1 question on biz law (considerations, offer,....etc)
- 2 questions on company law (fix & floating charge, abuse of power, ultra vires,.....etc)

Yeah, basically try to remember everything in the book. Pay lots of attention to detail if you can, and drag the answer out for as long as you can - you can see the PYQs for examples. Usually you will score more points if you approach the question with solid reasoning but in a roundabout way. You might want to answer something like this:

Generally, because of (some law), companies are not allowed to (do whatever). This is because (reason). However, in (precedent case), a precedent was set that allowed (something). This is because (reason). Person A's circumstances are somewhat alike to this situation, however perhaps (some doubt exists?). Thusly, if Person A did (this), it would not be lawful under (some law). However, if the situation was (different case), he would be able to (do whatever), as (reason). This is subject to (certain conditions, or a test). Person A should be advised accordingly.

instead of

Yes. Person A can do it. Because (reason).

wow man! only this...seems not easy to attempt
but still have to pay our heart... Oh My God! getting old how going to memory all??

hi everyone, i have a question here.P2 textbook for last sitting (june 08) still can be used for the next sitting (dec 08) ?is there much changes for the standard or syllabus?

There was major changes in the IFRS 3 : Business combinations which will eventually affects other standards as well.
1) minority interest = non controlling interest.
Reasoning = other shareholders fell "inferior" to be called minority.

2) Now in calculation of goodwill, we must account 100% of FV of subsidiary's identifiable net assets which was owned by non-controlling interest &
owners of parent.
Reasoning : Can you tell me that you can split assets like (i own 90% of car ) Which part? how to split ?

Actually last time they treat consol like (parent owns group share of every item)
Ie : (property x 90% + receivables x 90% - payables x 90%)

Now, its almost similar but Non-controlling interest also owns them as well but allocated later :
(property + receivables - payables) = 90% owners of parent & 10% NCI.

The examples above are rather too simplistic & incomplete, but you will get a rough idea about it.

The change in IFRS 3 pretty much restructure the consolidation part (IS & BS) but apart from that no much material changes (for now)

Eh, that's odd. Wasn't previously consolidation was based on full consolidation of net assets anyway?

I believe what you mean is recognition of goodwill based on a cost of acquisition that also considers NCI's share of goodwill.

Aka, the asset/liability element remains unchanged but the goodwill amount should include those attributable to both the group and the NCI.

i c..
coz v hav no option in the exam unliike few years ago..all questions in f4 r compulsory and we've got no choices =(
if i dun really know or not certain about what to write..then i m doomed to score very low marks or fail =(
frequent practice of past year questions and memorising can help in F4 right? umm..hopefully..
i noticed that the doctrine of judicial precedents has been asked twice..but my lecturer didnt go thru it with us..i can't grasp the answer for this once i read it ><

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Added on August 5, 2008, 10:24 pmit seems a whit difficult to me to lay such answer
err..what do u mean by roundabout way?
is it something like not reli straightaway and simple to the answer?

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Added on August 5, 2008, 10:27 pmp/s:
how should i register for the Dec exam..?
do i need to wait for acca to send me an exam form to opt which papers to sit for and which preferable exam center?
i need advice on the whole procedure..
thx a lot =)


This post has been edited by stephanie0721: Aug 5 2008, 10:27 PM

yeah something like that, actually i acn explain better (but scared too long) so i just came out with the simple explanation. I think an extract of draft
will better visualise the changes

Previously Changes
Cost of investment x Consideration transferred x
FV of identifiable net assets at date of acquisition NCi (% x FV of net asset) x
Share capital x x
Pre-acquisition reserves
share premium x
retained earnings x
FV adjustment x
x multiply % of control x FV of net assets x 100% x
Goodwill x x

At the end you get back the same figure for goodwill if you apply Proportionate share of FV of Sub net asset.
The goodwill will have different figure if you apply F.V of m.v of share by NCI just b4 acquisition.

I apologise for any differences of standards material as (i do not know what it looks like when it was posted)

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Added on August 5, 2008, 11:41 pmSorry for the above post, let me do justice again (drafting it on table was a disaster)
Previous IFRS 3
Cost of investment
- Fv of identifiable net assets at date of acquistion x % of control
= goodwill

Current IFRS 3
Consideration transferred
+ Non-controlling interest (% x FV of net assets at date of acquistion)
- Fv of identifiable net assets at date of acquistion x 100%
= goodwill

Those methods will be applied if use Proportionate share of FV of Sub net asset.
If apply method of F.V of m.v of share by NCI just b4 acquisition. Then question must give m.v of share price of subsidiary (ie : RM3)

Consideration transferred
+ NCI (m.v of share price x no. of shares held by NCI)
- Fv of identifiable net assets at date of acquistion x 100%
= goodwill
But there will be goodwill attributable to NCI at (m.v of share price - % of NCI x Fv of identifiable net assets at date of acquistion)

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 5 2008, 11:41 PM

hmm.. i see. so how is the NCI calculated then? (parent's portion unchanged, i assume)

i think we had studied it when we studied for P2 current issues, right?

yeah. it was under IFRS3 - new developments in June sitting.
but has adopted into standard in Dec sitting.

can I ask a q ?
got anyone know how abt study at inti college?
Is it lecturer there good enough?

Its still the same with minority interest in IS & BS (for now)
The idea of change is on the net assets held by subsidiary which is split into equity holders of parent & non-controlling interest.
Previously we ignored NCI portion on net assets (by assuming parent owns 100% of net assets although control of holding = 90%, 80%,....)
Now we also accounted for NCI (by including it in in calculation of goodwill) by adding it with cost of investment.
Then the FV of net assets x 100%, therefore net assets are both owned (by parent & nci).

The goodwill amount will be the same with previous IFRS 3 method (if applying proportionate share)

well, the net asset part i understand, but now that goodwill is also inclusive of the amount by NCI (since FV of NA (NCI%) =/= MV of shares held by NCI), so I suppose that the NCI portion is now FV of NA (NCI%) + NCI's Goodwill?

For that matter, do you know how the change in the NCI's goodwill affects the allocation of goodwill as per IAS36, where we allocate goodwill to a group of assets for the purpose of impairment. Do we still need to notionally gross up the goodwill, or is it now valid to just use NCI's portion of goodwill + parent's goodwill as the goodwill to be allocated?

If have goodwill attributable to NCI, the allocation method will be (basis of subsidiary's profits & losses = shareholding)
For example : if Parent owns 90% of holding, NCI will get 10% of goodwill (not pro-rata basis)

Example : If parent owns 90%
Goodwill 4.5
Imp loss (1)
Impaired value 3.5
(Goodwill attributable to NCI, let say 0.5)

If i use pro-rata basis to allocate impairment loss it will be parent (4.5 - 0.5) / 4.5 = 89% , NCI (0.5) / 4.5 = 11% which are wrong
The suitable method is
parent NCI total
Goodwill 4 0.5 5
Imp loss
- 90% x 1 (0.9)
- 10% x 1 (0.1) (1)
Impaired value 3.1 0.4 4
3.1 will be shown at group BS, goodwill (NCA) while 0.4 will be shown at group BS, NCI (Equity)

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Added on August 6, 2008, 6:14 pmSorry, i forgot to space the draft
parent 4 - 0.9 = 3.1 shown at goodwill (BS)
NCI 0.5 - 0.1 = 0.4 shown at NCI (BS)

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 6 2008, 06:14 PM

So IAS 36 no requires notionally grossing up and instead just uses the available goodwill la.. i see, thanks.

What about acquisitions where there is no available market value of shares?

eh.. if im not wrong, new IFRS 3 got 2 methods wat, partial method and full method. When using partial method, still have to gross up isnt it? (referring to impairment)