Real sexy...

i think the 10D should be better for music as with most of the 10" sub.

Frequency response of the Toy Tower L/R (purple trace), REL T1 subwoofer (blue trace), Toy Center center channel (green trace), and Toy surround (red trace)

The REL T1’s close-miked response, normalized to the level at 80 Hz, indicates that the lower –3-dB point is at 43 Hz and the –6-dB point is at 36 Hz. The upper –3-dB point is at 98 Hz using the LFE input.

Can someone explain what does the chart means. I'm interested in the blue trace which is the REL T1.

This post has been edited by lightning69: May 1 2009, 01:11 AM

Lots of Sifu here so no problem.

yes, the pro is here

Thanks man...very good info. When you say "struggle" ... at what volume level to do think that will happen. I don't mind if that thing struggle if one takes it to extremely high volume level because i don't really play my movies that loud. Most subs will eventually struggle but if it can perform well at normal level for most movies, then it should be alright. After all REL is a very reputable sub manufacturer.

I think I would prefer more controlled sub than big boom boom. It scare my kids away! Will give this sub a try when i got home from work.

Any dealer of SVS subwoofer dealer in malaysia?

The SVS PB-12 Plus Subwoofer looks interesting. Any idea how much?

You should consider to get this dealership....sure can sell quite a bit.

I just learn that the Velodyne CHT12Q quote I got from Miri have to wait 1-2 months to order from the States. Any dealer in KL can ship to Miri?

I just got back from auditioning the REL T1 a while ago. During the audition I manage to try out the Velodyne CHT-12R (not the Q) and the JBL ES250P so that give me a good opportunity to do a direct comparison between the 3 subs.

The REL T1 is a 10" sub that comes in a really tiny package while the CHT-12R and the JBL ES250P are both 12"sub in a much bigger cabinet.

When I first saw the T1, I am so surprise how small is this sub. Its really really tiny in a cabinet that is just 1 cubic foot. I really have doubt that this little cube can even produce good bass as the size is just too small for serious bass!

Then we play some original demo DVD with DTS audio which have some great music and HT stuffs. I just wanna listen to the sub so I don't really care about the picture DVD is fine for this audition. The first one we try out is a live band with some really nice drums. After listen to this track, I am really impress with the bass quality that comes out of this little cube. I listen to a few more music video including one songs from Eagle and then move on to some movies demo. The T1 is surely a very capable sub producing really great sounding bass and it can goes loud too!

Then I saw the CHT-12R and the JBL Es250P so i thought i want to try it out just to compare it with the T1. First is the 12R and i am so shock to find out that the bass is so "shallow" as compare to the T1. The 12R can produce bass but its just don't feel that "full" as compare to the T1. I turn up the volume of the 12R but then it sounded loud but boomy and loose. Then I tried the JBL Es250P and this sound a little better but its no where close to the T1 and terms of quality bass. I could not believe that botht the 12R and the ES250 which is a bigger sub could not stand up to the T1 so I swap back to the T1 just to listen to it again. Oh man...it just sound so much better. Its tight and so full and so musical that it really put the other two 12" sub to shame. I hope I do not offend those 12R user here, but you really got to listen to the T1. Its just so complete!

However there is problem with the T1 that I audition as it produce a very strange noise that feels like something is loose. The funny thing is once we lift the T1 up from the floor, the sound disappear. It could be from the loose wooden floor so I need to go back and do further audition before I buy it.

This post has been edited by lightning69: May 19 2009, 08:52 PM

The T1 is Rm2950.

Now I know why the T1 get such a rave reviews everywhere. Home Cinema Choice of UK even award it the "Subwoofer of The Year Award 2007". It is indeed a great sub. You only know how good this sub is when you you compare it which the other subs in the same listening session.

I have always wanted a "big" size sub because I believe that size does matter, but now I have to believe that small sub can be great too. This little baby bring my love for quality bass to the next level.

This post has been edited by lightning69: May 19 2009, 06:43 PM

Please don't get me wrong. I am just sharing my experience with the 3 subs that I try out. The reason I want to compare it to the CHT-12R is because I am really interest in getting the CHT-12Q which is the replacement model for the 12R with similar spec. If the 12Q is much better than the 12R, then i would want to try it out before I jump into the REL T1.

But from my experience, the T1 sound so much better(trust me its a huge difference) that I would not even consider the 12R or the 12Q if they are similar. The 12Q is RM2800 and the T1 is RM2950.

Sorry. I am no expert in calibration. However the sub were all place in the same position and tested with the same AV eqiupment. All I did is swap the sub and playback the same material. Maybe with calibration the 12R would sound better but that could be the same for the T1. What I learn from the seller is that the 12R was traded in for the REL T1. So the T1 was not properly run-in because its out from the box while the 12R should be very well run-in already.

I don't really know how to write a proper review, but all I can say is the T1 sounds so solid...it just feel so damn good. But when I swap it with the 12R, it just feel very hollow. You can immediately feel that its the bass its from a sub(which is not a bad thing) but it just doesn't seem to blend in like the T1. I try to increase the volume of the 12R to see if i could get some more impact but all i get is more boominess....its just not the same as the T1.

If you have a chance, go listen to the T1. Its REL good!

This post has been edited by lightning69: May 19 2009, 08:35 PM

I might get the seller to bring it to my home for more auditioning to see how well it suits my living room.

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Added on May 19, 2009, 8:58 pmI am not sure if the T1 can produce low frequencies like the 12R but if you are looking for something small that can disappear in your room while able to produce AAA bass, then the REL T1 is a sure bet.


This post has been edited by lightning69: May 19 2009, 08:58 PM

I think that is very true. Most sub( I won't call them entry level because they are not cheap) can produce powerful bass that can shake our house but lacks quality or responsiveness. Its very much like digital camera where company push for higher megapixel but suufer in image quality due to higher noise.

I think the REL T1 emphasis more on quality bass than power, but that doesn't mean that its wimpy. I was wrong to judge it by its size until I actually listen to it. It pack a very powerful high quality class A/B amp with 300watts rms and that allows it to rise up to the challenge when call upon. From my short listening session with the T1, I am more than happy with the power of the T1 as it proves it can move serious amount of air too although it won't really shake the foundation of the house.

There is no "best" way to connect your sub. It really depends on what you want and the type of speakers you are using. If you have a large full range speakers, then you can connect it via the AV LFE out, set your speaker to Large, & turning off the cross-over would be good because this will allow the signal to bypass the crossover. However that would leave your sub to produce everything from the LFE channel. But some prefer to use the crossover to set the crossover at a lower frequency which is just slightly above the lowest frequency that the main speakers can produce. This setting will have the sub produce those low freq that the main speakers cannot produce.

However if you want more bass from your system, you might want to set the crossover at a higher level to produce the bass that your main speaker already can produce.

If you have small speaker like satelites or bookshelf, then you will be required to play around the crossover to make the woofer blend int your speakers.

One thing that caught my attention about the REL subwoofers is the very unique set-up. In fact REL call it the Sub Bass system instead of subwoofers. Unlike most sub, you either connect with the LFE or you could connect via the High Level output(direct from AV speakers output). The REL that I tested 2 days ago requires a very different setup. REL recommended connecting with both the LFE input and the High Level input(it even include Nuetrik Speakon connector and cables for this). In fact it has a volume control for both the LFE input andthe High Level input.

Here are qome quotes from REL:

"RELs are not traditional subwoofers, but true sub-bass systems. A REL is designed to augment the performance of “full range” speaker systems, to provide linear response down to below 12 Hz (Studio III, -6 dB down at 9 Hz). Therefore, for the moment, set aside everything you’ve been taught about subwoofers and how they are integrated into a stereo or theater system. RELs set-up and position differently than other subwoofers. A REL will take advantage of physics and room acoustics to provide deep pressurization as no other sub-woofer can. It’s important that you bring to the set-up process a willingness to do things a little differently in order to obtain these superior results. The end result of your labors will be an utterly seamless integration of true deep bass to a sound system, regardless of the main speaker’s low bass capability."

Connection:
"It is helpful to know that you will almost always connect the REL to the input on the rear panel labeled “Hi Level.” This connection is made using the supplied 34’ 10” (10 meters) cable, the bare leads of which connect to the speaker output terminals of the power amplifier. The easy and foolproof connection at the REL is done with a Neutrik Speakon connector. The purpose of connecting to the speaker output terminals is one of the unique secrets of REL’s success. By connecting to the high level input on the REL from the amplifier, you build forward the sonic signature of your main system, including the tonal balance and timing cues of the entire electronics chain. In this way, the REL is fed the exact signal that is fed to the main speakers."

Theater and Film Applications:
For Dolby Digital AC-3® or other 5.1 theater systems, once the standard set-up for two-channel outlined above is complete, the LFE output from the processor or receiver should be connected to the low-level input and appropriate gain adjustments made. It may be necessary to take the crossover out of the low-level input using the “mode” switch if extra upper bass output is called for. Keep phase consistent with what was selected during high-level set-up by simply choosing the corresponding setting (1 = 2, 3 = 4). For this configuration, you must set the processor to the “large” or “full range” setting for the left and right speakers in order for the REL to receive the bass signal via the high-level cable. In this configuration, the REL provides support for both the left and right speakers for two-channel listening, and support for the LFE when movies are playing. Most processors will allow you to defeat the subwoofer output when listening in the two-channel mode. The effect of this set-up is one of greatly increased dynamics in the mid-bass range; no bass bloat; and a greater degree of space and timing from the Foley effects. For an even greater sense of space and impact, a second woofer connected in parallel to the center channel will prove to be a dramatic improvement as well. And if that is not enough fun, a rear sub, both to support the rear channel speakers as well as to evenly distribute LFE through the room, truly completes the full-range sonic picture for state-of-the-art film reproduction.

To read more about REL unique sub bass system you can go to REL website @ REL

This post has been edited by lightning69: May 21 2009, 11:21 AM