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 Best manager of our time?, Best manager

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TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 08:16 PM, updated 18y ago

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Your choice?

Mine is Arsene Wenger...

Also don't b**** because there is no Michels, Busby, Shankly etc. Managers of our time...

This post has been edited by disco333: Jun 7 2008, 08:18 PM
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 08:43 PM

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The fact is not many managers can do what Wenger has done...
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 08:45 PM

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Not necessarily, it could be based on progress made at different capacities

This post has been edited by disco333: Jun 7 2008, 08:46 PM
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 09:10 PM

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Wenger built an entire team for less than what Ferguson spent on one player. He has built a squad capable of winning the league by forming a group of young and talented players for a very small amount of money. Name me a manager who could have done that?

This post has been edited by disco333: Jun 7 2008, 09:10 PM
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 09:18 PM

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Did you even read my question? Ferguson has spent a crazy amount of money to improve his squad.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 09:24 PM

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Yup, I agree with ah_khoo. It is based on opinion and in my opinion Wenger is the better manager. Make of it what you will.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 09:26 PM

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During that unbeaten spell we won a trophy. So if you are going to win the league that doing it in style is harmless
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 10:30 PM

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Many people will say that he is not the best manager in the Premier League, that Sir Alex Ferguson is better. However, I am forced to disagree. I know that Sir Alex has won the Treble and Wenger has only achieved the Double, and that Arsene has not yet won the Champions League. But if he does eventually win the European crown, which he has a good chance of with this very young squad that will only get better, I believe he should be remembered as the greatest manager of this generation.

Wenger should be remembered not only for his trophies - and I think that he will win many more of these due to the talent and cohesion of his team right now. The fact is he has done so many other things for Arsenal and the Premier League.

While in charge of the Gunners, he has seen a new stadium built, recorded record profits, gone through a season undefeated, and introduced a beautiful playing style that is fun to watch. As for the Premier League, he has demonstrated to the other teams in the competition that you don’t have to play ugly football in order to win.

I am not saying that you have to agree with me but don't insult his achievements.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 10:39 PM

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Look through a few pages and many people belittle our unbeaten run. That to me shows a lack or respect.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 10:52 PM

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That is again debatable as it is a matter of opinion, if trophies are a benchmark then Ferguson has done brilliantly but if you take into account that Wenger has kept Arsenal within budget for so many years that he has enabled the club to move to a new stadium, increase the clubs revenue a year by about 200% from when he first took over and he has also increased Arsenal's profile considerably.

How is saying that Wenger is a better manager than Ferguson disrespectful? Care to explain your definition of respect because it sure as hell is not the same as mind
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:02 PM

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This is how I see it. it is truly impossible to really argue rationally about this as the two most important questions would always go unanswered, could Ferguson have achieved the success Wenger has and elevated Arsenal football club into a situation where they sell out 60,000 every home game on a tiny transfer budget .Whereas Rio cost more than our whole team at £28 million. The second question is could Arsene have had what was required mentally to drive a massive club that had been underachieving to such glories as winning the treble? My thoughts are that neither could have achieved the same success if the roles were reversed but if one looks at how hard it was to achieve that success I believe Arsene job is harder as if the best player comes on the market he doesn't have the funds to buy him ie Wayne Rooney at £28 million. So he has to continue pulling rabbits out of the hat like Fabregas for £500k, Toure for £125k, Adebayor for £3 million, van Persie for £2.75 million etc.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(Calvin871989 @ Jun 7 2008, 10:55 PM)
disco333 just say that ferguson is a better manager compared to wenger and we were all leave this thread for good and promise not to come back or post on this thread anymore. lol tongue.gif
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You can leave if you want, no one really cares....
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:14 PM

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QUOTE(:+:DarreN:+: @ Jun 7 2008, 11:10 PM)
Don't forget that Sir Alex won his first league titles without splashing a lot of cash on players. He bought Eric Cantona for £1.2 million pounds, and Fergie's Fledglings came from our youth system.
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Back in the day £1.2 million was lot of money.....
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:24 PM

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QUOTE(hazremi @ Jun 7 2008, 11:12 PM)
when ferguson took over united, the club position in the table was somewhere at the bottom of the table and the stadium was so much smaller than today. The club had no money at that time. From there, he slowly turned the club into what we have seen today. Winning his first title and build on his success for club and the club expanded into the biggest club stadium in England. Every match, there are 76,000 crowds,full house..From the club success, he generates money for transfer money...

And yeah, he even won Champions League as well..

"FOOTBALL,BLOODY HELL"
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When Fergie took over, United had the largest stadium in England that was filled every matchday. The club has history, the stadiums were filled well before Ferguson's era. United were also the richest club in England at that time, Ferguson took over a under preforming team and led them to the title which is impressive. They might have been near the bottom when he took over but they are the favourites at the start of that season which means that they had the quality but lacked leadership which is where Fergie comes in. To say that he made a team out of failures in nonsense, with a few signings he was able to lead them steadily up the league.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(MADReaLJL @ Jun 7 2008, 11:22 PM)
he got the money.. he just prefer not to use it
u said like he never spend much before.. its just during recent years he started to build his squad from young players

saf transform united from 7 league titles to 17 league titles, 1 european titles to 3 titles.. plus some fa cup
during the time he first took united, we are nothing like we are now
he rebuilt the squad and look where we are now

not trying to be rude but what wenger doing now already done by saf long time ago.. and saf done it more effectively than wenger
currently saf also focuses on young players but now he chose to buy because of the money he made from previous seasons.. what is the point gathering money but dont spend it enough rite? summore saf spend the money wise enough with the purchase of carrick, hargreaves, nani and anderson

anyway we can always see next season whether the young already matured squad will step up or not
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What Ferguson did is great and all but do it in modern football is very different. Fans have this idea that Ferguson had no money to spend when he first took over, only god knows where this myth originated from. He had a big budget when he took over which enabled him to sign McClair, Ince, Pallister etc. Without money that would not have been possible, when Wenger took over he signed Anelka for £500k and sold him for £23 million which funded his transfers so the next three seasons. There is a big difference between what Fergie had to do at the start of his reign at United and what Wenger had to do at the start of his at Arsenal.
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(jackdante22 @ Jun 7 2008, 11:35 PM)

"AW is the best manager in our time. Period."


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I agree!
TSdisco333
post Jun 7 2008, 11:43 PM

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I think if you are a supporter of a small team, a manager like Wenger would be a dream manager as he will make a small team to become a great team. With the money coming into the game, If ferguson was to manage a team like Derby with a limited budget, he would have been a nobody. With Arsene Wenger, if he was to be a coach for a small team, the small team will become a great team with his ability to turned gemstone into diamonds.Any manager can be successful with money, Chelsea have proven that and also Blackburn years ago.

Wenger took a team struggling normally finishing around 6th and made them into one of, if not the best team in England, he won the double in his first full season, he won the league undefeated, his transfers are amazing, its Wenger all the way!
TSdisco333
post Jun 8 2008, 12:45 PM

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Initially I voted for Wenger, then a few people asked me why and said that Ferguson would be the correct option because he has won more trophies and so on. I did what was natural and responded by stating the reasons why I think Wenger is the superior manager, however all the United fans seem to think that any opinion which clashes with theirs are arrogant. Besides, can United fans get the over the idea that United were a small club when Fergie took over out of their heads, he took over a team that were favourites for the title that season but were unable to live up to the hype. They were under preforming and Ferguson got the best out of them and kudos to the man. To compare what Wenger and Ferguson has done is near impossible so let us leave it that. I say Wenger, you say Ferguson it is all about opinion. Don't batter me and call me a child because I have an opinion.

Grow up for heavens sake.

This post has been edited by disco333: Jun 8 2008, 12:46 PM
TSdisco333
post Jun 8 2008, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(boxsystem @ Jun 8 2008, 09:14 AM)

it still is a lot of money to me. Heck, I can quit my job and support my whole family at the same time with that amount of money.
To TS, don't be so thick. You wanted a valid argument. Here's one. I applaud Wenger for his unbeaten run. I applaud Mourinho for his achievements in EPL despite of his 22 star players. Heck I shouldn't have said that. It would contradict to my opinion. To me, everything is simple. Credit is given where it is due. Despite of Wenger's and Mourinho's achievement, I am bold enough to say that they can't even match what SAF has done over the years.

What worries United's fans the most is the day that SAF wanted to step down and enjoy his life without United. How significant he is? Now, tell me. TS, your knowledge on SAF about a thing or two doesn't makeup your excuses to say "Wenger is the best and SAF is not" plus keep on arguing on the same thing repetitively. Achievements is being count on how many trophies you've won and how you bring the club to be known to the world.

SAF is brilliant. He took Ji Sung and Dong to market United in Asia. I would say that Dong is merely a marketing tool but Ji Sung is an unsung hero in United. He plays well. And talking about nurturing talents out of nothing, SAF has done that a lot of times. Class of 92 is the best example. They won the Treble. Heck, most of them are local players. Beckham, Butt, Neville Bros, Scholes and The Welsh Wizard, Giggs. Does Wenger nurture local talents as SAF does? Hmmm .. let me count. None? Maybe you can enlighten me on this? And I would like to highlight that this idea and concept was brought in way back in Busby, Paisley, Shankly(and the list goes on) era. Liverpool and United are among the first ones to deploy this plan.

And don't bring in the issue of "SAF has big transfer kitties .. Wenger has none." As a matter of fact, Wenger does have tranfer kitties. And I believed that he doesn't wish to use them. Again, SAF is brilliant when he purchases the likes of Ferdinand, Rooney, Carrick, Owen Hargreaves, Anderson, Nani and next to be tipped as a World Player of The Year, Cristiano Ronaldo to complete his current team. With the mixture of experience and youth, a team can go far and you wouldn't have to worry about pressure or whatsoever in some tournaments i.e. Champions League, FA Cup and so on.
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Firstly, no one is relating money spent in football to our daily life.

The last time I checked taking advantage of people for your own gain is selfish. Park has been a good player, as for Dong the sole purpose of his purchase was more marketing. Besides Ferguson didn't sign Dong, the board told Fergie that they would sent scouts to China to look at a few players, Ferguson had no say. Fergies never been great at picking up real bargains and turning them into stars. I can't think of anyone who you could see as an example of how he's done well since the Fergies Fledglings era. He was convinced the likes of Kleberson and Djemba Djemba were the next big stars.

Ferdinand (£28 million), Rooney (£28 million), Carrick (£18.6 million), Owen Hargreaves (£17 million), Anderson (£21 million), Nani (£17 million) and Cristiano Ronaldo (£13 million). He didn't spot these players, he just bought the best players available in the market. Wenger doesn't have that luxury, he has to constantly be on the look out of hidden gems.

Ferguson is a great manager and what he has achieved is unrivaled but in my opinion Wenger is the better manager. As I said before, don't call me a child because I disagree with you.
TSdisco333
post Jun 8 2008, 01:48 PM

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Did I ever said he didn't. The European trophy he won was yesterday's equivalent to today's UEFA Cup not the Champions League....

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