Since this thread has gone OT.

You have to considered undergeared applicants. While it's always nice to recruit someone who is geared for the content you're progressing in, this may not always be possible. You have to be realistic here, either you recruit for needed raid spots or you don't raid. In the last 2 months we've geared up a retridin, enhancement shaman and we've just taken in a new resto shaman, tankadin and shadowpriest. There's so much loot in BT/MH that the gearing up goes relatively quickly in there even though we were relatively late in progressing. As it is a lot of loot in MH/BT is getting disenchanted. So as it is, we're clearing MH+BT in 2 days (about 8 hours), even with undergeared scrubs in the guild. Although I have to say we're stopping MH soon to give us more time in SP.

Having some good crafted BOPs and badge epics is indicative of raider who's willing to put time in to gear himself up. Similarly having a nice wws is indicative of good player although you have to read those things carefully as you're often missing things like (for healing) group setup, what his role was (MT healing, raid healing) and generally why everyone else sucked so bad. At the end of the day the most important thing is to recruit someone who wants to play an important role in progression, who will turn up for raids - especially the wipe raids, and who has the right attitude (ie laughing at felmyst wipes rather than quitting). It's more important to make sure he fits in with your guild/raid socially than anything else imo.

But then again maybe i'm biased as we have a smallish guild (<40 raiders) and we only do 4 x 4hr raid days a week so it's even more important for the new joiner to fit in.

omg you're trolling/spamming your own topic.

It depends, based on rough mathcraft, our retloldin brings about 600dps just by being in the raid even if he's slightly undergeared. But generally healers and tanks don't make the raid. You really need 100% from everyone to perform in SP.

Umm... Tanks can tank and often do in welfare armor

umm nope... just do your heroics like a good boy and get your mighty fine t5-t6 level armor. 0 raiding required.

Come to think about it, arena shields rawks for tanking.

edit: LOL EMO

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Jun 5 2008, 09:58 AM

I tank trash in BT/MH/SP in dps gear. I eat crits occasionally. My healers don't mind. Arena shield would help reduce said crits. I would use arena shield if i could be bothered to grind arena points and i didn't have better.

On a seperate note, I consider badge loot to be welfare epix. I have a few pieces here and there to make up for missing slots. They require 0 raiding and often they are just as good as stuff you can get in raids and sometimes even better. Especially as a tank... god knows how many times while i've been raiding i've gotten whispered to go tank heroic Mgt. You just need to idle for 10 minutes and you get whispered: "Tank?" There is really no excuse to be an undergeared tank struggling through kara with all the loot you can purchase with badges.

There's a guild on my server, disbanded back before the alchemy changes because they lost the will to keep wiping on magtheridon. Then they reformed recently, went straight in ZA, MT was in t4 and rep gear with some geared people but almost everyone else in green + blues. Illidan dead in about 4 months with their BT clear in about 3 weeks (we helped with hods). So it's definitely doable to finally make it to BT in 5 months

Ouch... 6 hours

seems you have problems surviving to the 6min timer as well. Anyway.. it gets easier

Without glaives, the rogue dps on those charts are fairly typical tbh. The big problem with dpsing on brut is his 7700 armor value compared to say gorefiend who's only on 6200 armor which really effects melee physical dps whereas casters will have their standard resist rates. You could also pop elixir of demonslaying for additional AP instead of running with regular flasks... Still, after stacking 3 bloodlusts i would expect rogue and melee dps to be a bit higher. Although that could be explained by your dps warrior slacking big time, can't see battle shout is the list of buff gains.. although you could have gotten it before the fight.. which doesn't really make sense since you might as well roll with bloodrage at the pull.! Still i think i'd lose focus at the end of a 6 hour raid. Anyway grats on the kill.

BM hunters are very strong end game pve dps with a 'decent' group buff from FI. SK gaming's hunter is on 3051dps on brut. Locks also are the strongest dps at the end of BT due to the t6 4 set bonus effecting shadowbolt which is like 100% of their damage output (1 button dps ftw). But really, i wouldn't read too much into wws charts as it's so dependant on group setup, boomkins, elemental shamans, retridins, survival hunters, shadow priests etc.

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Added on June 11, 2008, 1:23 pmThe reason your mage sucks at dps is no bloodlust at 20% since the locks got 2xbloodlust. You gain more than >>30% mage dps at execute range with bloodlust especially if the stack buffs - eg destro pots, flame caps, icy veins etc. And you're comparing dps between mages and locks? Sigh..

And the warlock 4 piece t6 set bonus effects 100% of your abilities. The only thing that could possibly effect your dps more is pressing your keyboard harder. Compared to crappy 4 piece on warriors (hi 5% extra damage on ability that only contributes 18% of my total damage)

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Jun 11 2008, 01:27 PM

I'm not trying to diss locks. I like them, we normally go with 2 or 3 and we spoil them with boomkins and shamans. I think most other classes have other things to watch as well. For me, nothing is simpler than 3 bloodthirsts and 2 whirlwinds every 18 secs with heroic strikes thrown in, however i still have to manage my rage if i get a glancing/miss/no crit streak, i have to watch executioner procs for use with haste pots, rampage timer, battle shout timer, and ofc recklessness+hastepot+heroism+drums execute spam, demo shout timer so that we can run with curse of recklessness without gibbing our tanks and so on. It's not rocket science but still a lot of people will mess up. Still with that raid make up, i would expect the 2xmages to get their bloodlust at 20% which would easily bring them above the 2100dps mark.

edit: ahh didn't see you weren't trying to compare dps within your own guild.

edit2: ya i know your point about KJ and SK gaming. We don't all raid with SK and we don't have raids that are stacked like theirs. All we can do is play the cards we're dealt and maximise our own raids dps based on who's present.

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Jun 11 2008, 01:54 PM

While i did say that wws is so setup dependant, you can more or less figure out how the raid is configured by looking properly at the various buffs. It's also a good way to figure out who is slacking on buffing and dpsing.

Sadly i'm too much of a geek spending wayyyyyy too much time reading wws rather than working lol

edit: dude no one is knocking your achievements. The reason why i'm commenting on your wws is because i have quite a bit of say into the raid setup and our own guild forums are filled with theorycraft on how to maximise our own raid dps. We're currently working on felmyst and like you we still tend to screw up on Kalecgos every now and then and we're only a few weeks ahead of you. So if you want to take my posts as an insult to your guild's credibility then there's very little more i can say.

Anyway progress is stalled at the moment due to the high number of dutch and swedish raiders watching the footy atm....

This post has been edited by Kidicarus: Jun 11 2008, 03:38 PM

After having a rubbish time in SP last reset, was pleasantly surprised by people learning to play. Since this thread doesn't have anything to do with the OPs original post, I thought i'd just post a wws from last night

http://wowwebstats.com/gc2tb3xo5j4pk?s=123876-151944

Dps got 1 heroism per group and mages were complaining about CoE not being up at the start lol. What was nice though was the support dps classes doing decent dps even though they were slightly undergeared for SP. Except for our boomkin who was slacking -.-

Was also nice to finally break 1900dps on my warrior as well as getting some rocking upgrades xD