Mods adviced me to open a thread in here for discussion.

His/her name hiding to avoid conflict.


This fellow already picking on me for the third time. Even blind also know he is coming after me for revenge.

There are two thread removed which I am not able retrieve my customer list and informations.
The thread is opened way before he becomes the mod.

The recent case.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=367358&hl=
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=541628&hl=
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=616281&hl=
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=636039&hl=
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=629645&hl=

Best example for power abused.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=588872&hl=

I advice staff in here removed his mods title immediate effect.

This post has been edited by DAViS: May 5 2008, 07:32 PM

what is excessive bump?more than 3 "i already pm "?

i only can see less than 3 bump

OMG..just read a couple of thread...you just replying to question also consider indirect bump kaa??

If you indicate that you are replying to a pm its an indirect bump.

what if the indication of replying a pm comes with a reply to one of Davis's potential customer's post...he needs to indicate a pm as what is contained in the pm is sensitive (price related if you see)....

but i see some of the posts he is answering his buyers' questions in the thread (as reference for all) and at the same time, indicating that he has replied. UGPM alone would definitely be an indirect bump but i dont see any harm in answering a question and at the same time, for the sake of clarity, inform the buyer that the pm has been sent.

not the first time v2k has been complained for being unfair or power abusing, and somehow i dont think that is a coincidence.

All I see is indirect bumps. A lot of things can be answered by sending a PM to potential / current buyers instead of "bla bla bla, check your pm".

Is that mean you can't reply to ur own thread at all? Every explanation must be reply in PM? lol... this should be pretty interesting case.

i have gone through all the thread last time and i find out that most of the seller done so ... even i also doing that ...but how come i never been take action ?

its not fair to do it to davis only

As far as I know once I have replied the message, the thread can't bump on that particular day.
If I have mutiple reply without "Do not combine", the posting will merge together at the previous posting and it will not 'bumps' up the thread either.

Look at those replies and see the time stamp you will know why.

Am just stating the reasoning behind Viking's action. As people wanted to know.

That is how the BUMP button supposed to work.
You've replied=BUMP for the day. If you have not replied, you use BUMP=BUMP of the day as well.
If you have multiple reply to do, there's Multi-quote Function for you to use.

If everyone with the mentality of oh, my thread have not bump cos of the message combine. I shall uncombine the post. If everyone take their own sweet time(2 hour one post, reply, next 2 hour another post; this ain't fair isn't it to the others?) in replying, some even can quote their own post(yes, I've seen this) and act like

this bumping system is created to at least provide a fair system for all the traders out there.
Certainly everyone wants their thread to be on top all the time, ain't?

We have a lot of threads to look after every day, so some might be considered as lucky for being escaped. OK, thanks for telling I'll look into your threads more often next time.

Those people in power perhaps should read the thread then only leave comment at least read the time stamp.

when ppl have power they tend to abuse it. So just be happy about it. Not happy find another forum or start another forum lol.

I really dun see any indirect bump as there is so many seller still doin it.
pls be fair a bit ... so many safe trader " allowed " to answer " received ur pm " or " replied his msg via pm " but not us ?

Always hit the report button if you see such replies. Everyone is treated fairly, safe traders are ought to obey trade zone R&R as well.

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Added on May 6, 2008, 12:15 amAnyhow, this thread isn't supposed to be here. Thread moved to Main Site/Forum Feedback and Helpdesk.

This post has been edited by fruitie: May 6 2008, 12:15 AM

We remove posts which are in breach of forum rules, just cause you don't see them, don't mean they're not there.

Report button. We don't "allow" it, we just don't notice it.

we're looking into this now. those who have nothing constructive to say, keep your comments to yourself.

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Added on May 6, 2008, 1:56 am

Davis, as a holder of the safe trader tag, we expect a higher level of maturity from you. However, it seems there are just too many instances that you seem to think you're above the rules of the forum.

While you might have a point to the above threads not being indirect bumps, there have been numerous other occasions where you have indirectly bumped topics by quoting your own posts, and posting redundant replies ie "you've got PM". There are also many instances where you have pointed members to external links to make purchases which is against the trade zone policy.

This coupled with your unnecessary comments when advised to put in the tags for your sale threads, posting defamatory comments against a trade enforcer and reopening threads closed by a moderator are more then enough grounds for us to reconsider your tag.

Your threads will be reopened, but we do hope that you will exercise more caution in the future when it comes to the rules of the forum. Our rules are quite straightforward, and it would be in your best interest to adhere to it.

Sorry, double posting.

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Added on May 6, 2008, 8:15 amse7en,
In your position you already know that the external link is for reference only, we have sort it out and you should not need to rehearsal again.
I did given all the points and facts on why the external links given and we did rest the case don't we?

Since LYN allowed some one in here choose to micro managing my threads, in future I try not to reply my customer question in posting which certain people would think I choose to use indirect bump method.
I have many sales to make and conduct and I have no time to resort this low level bumping tactic like 99% people did in here. Sorry is not my concern and I don't bother it either.

Since I have pointed out where is wrong doing by that specific fellow which I have named it at my title have you guys ever look at it or at least click my links and read the timestamp? If not please do so and sort this matter in justice way.

The "you've got PM thing" have you read the posting yet? I choose not to quote in here but I want you personally click the link and read it.

"Defamatory comments" only made to certain personnel which he has a history I told you guys before. You choose to back your man, I rest my case since I have being challenging you guys standing ground, infact from what I see is some people are seeking for revenge and troubles. Last time when I have some wrong doing, goldfries and rangered will informed me via PM like recently last year one time I have some scripting issue the autobump running for many times in an hour. Do you see that a simple issue can be solve if we approaching through soft way in proper manner but some one in here choose not to instead flexing his muscles infront of me and many others (as peoples reported).

Last and least, do not use "reconsider my tag" as your choice to shut my mouth and my feedback, it ain't work that way. The tag given by you because the way I conducting honest business and selling genuine items in here, I never apply for it but you honour it willingly from your heart which you feel is suitable within the manner of conducting business in here. You may remove it if you think you have to, I have no objection on it.

If I have done anything wrong, get some one else contact me or manage me instead of the person that I mentioned. The last time the thread which removed closed by bad intention, now I am asking where is my thread? I have to retrieve my customer informations. You can close the thread forever if you think it is absolute wrong and causing your site reputation or server damage which it has being there for about < 2 years.

Thank you.

Regards,
Davis

This post has been edited by DAViS: May 6 2008, 08:15 AM

I don't see a need to post in your sales topic informing the potential buyer that a PM is sent to his/her inbox (based on the time stamp it's the same day).

If you have additional information, just update it in the first post of your sales thread and inform buyer via PM to check the first post for more info.

As a safe trader, you should know the following :

Example of legit bumps.
Example of indirect bumps.
And, is this a chat thread? These conversation can be done in PM.

Davis, you're not special enough for us to 'assign' someone to monitor your threads and I can assure you we do not accord you that privilege. Neither do we accord you the privilege of courtesy PMs before we take action because we don't do that to anyone. Our policy here has always been for moderators to act first, then review only on appeal.

Regardless of your 'honesty', there have been many complaints about your arrogant attitude. Being polite and courteous is a trait you obviously lack so it would be great if you could work on that. That said, constructive comments about moderator actions are always welcomed. It just appears you are too full of yourself in thinking its all about you when it isn't.

RBR,

Do remember arrogant attitude towards a personnel whom act like a king at the first place or choose to put their words in to my mouth. So many complaints but in the end what is the outcome? You said is no longer an issue and complainted thread closed, sales and business continue as normal. In the end some one would it is part of the business and we should live on it. I live on that situations and I don't find why should go further to please some one whom I wish not to deal futher with that kind of attitude.
Do you have any say on the record that I proven before? If not please do not bring in other non-related issue in here. We look at the issue case by case.

As many said no matter how many good things you have done, you will be wrong if there is an excused towards me. So I have to live with it if is rude and wrong. I always welcome the complain to be raise in the forum so that we can have a discussion on that matter and how to solve it. I don't it is wrong instead I encourage those dislike me to go ahead make it as case study.

To suiteng,
Don't worry, I don't find that in future I should reply in sales thread because I can find a real words to put off as peoples are micromanaging it and so call indirect bump!
Anyway if you like the tag, I can give to you for free since you have applied it for 100 times. hehe.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...3&#entry7936303

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Added on May 6, 2008, 10:16 amNow we have se7en warned people in here do not reply non constructive stuff which is running in grey area, many would choose to keep silence because they know what will step on for the next step in the grass field full of mines.

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Added on May 6, 2008, 10:19 amSome said rules can't be bent but I said before the rules bent I got a 10% warning from some one which I can't remember because my signature is too big (even smaller like present one). Later on I got mentioned some one signature far far bigger than mine but he is a mod but nothing happend but silence? Don't worry I won't pursuit my complaint because from what I see is once the issue raised and seems no issue to some people then we can let it go with a matter of fact a nod of head and and forget it.

This post has been edited by DAViS: May 6 2008, 10:19 AM

What does this safe trader thing to do with your indirect bump case? That application was how many years ago and refer to my sig, I'm retiring from trade zone.

Since you're talking about safe trader's tag, well se7en & RBR, you heard him. He said he doesn't want the Safe Trader's tag.

Did you take action and click on the REPORT button? You can report anyone, regardless they are mods or admins or staff or whatever. If you didn't click that button, then there's no issue here.

This post has been edited by suiteng: May 6 2008, 01:59 PM

Sound Like Indirect " Threaten "

If You Quiet , I Will Seldom Look Into Your Threads..

Since You Posted Here, I Will Often Look Into Your Threads.. ( Special Care For You )

fruitie , Your Comment Let Me Felt

I Choose To Silent From The Thread Started, But I Read This I Must Sound Something..
I Bet I Will Be The Next Special Care ThreadStarter Since I Posted Here..

But I Still Wanna Point It Out... I Don't Care..
I Hope Everybody Will Be Treated Fair Enough..

Well thank you for your thought, I see that you like to drift in this sort of manner in the uncomfortable section of others by reading through your others comment. Others people like to do that but I am not, no time for this.

Sorry, not interesting to keh poh chi others but I would telling them in the face.
I hope that others won't simply click report on me either.

I will reply soon to the comment which is related to my initial intention. "Chit chat" better to be done in PM or my MSN.

Agree With That.. Better Solution To Solve Those Matter...

Not Siding Any Side, If MODs Already Reminded You Via PM About The Matter ( Maybe More Than 1Time ), And You Still The Same..

Then You Deserved For A Warn Or Force Close. Nothing To Be Blame..

I see reason why the mod remove your posting.I checked the Levi's TIme Collection thread and already counted you posting "You got mail" for 12 times and thats only for 4 pages.


That is indirect bump.The mod has done his job so case closed

I see nothing wrong with that post. The reason Davis posted here is to get attention from forumers and welcome their comments, right? Now he obtained another TE's attention, he should be happy because other than viking, another TE will be looking at his thread and will be judging whether he did or did not break the rule.

That's what I noticed too, and I just quoted some examples in my previous post.

Your initial intention is strayed when you talked about safe trader and start digging up my history 2 years ago. I though you have no time for this?

In my previous post - I'm just highlighting those post which is legit, which is not, and which is not needed. Does this have to do with my safe trader application which was 2 years ago?

A safe trader's tag is offered to someone who appreciate it. Since you offered, does that mean you don't mind if your tag is revoked?

This post has been edited by suiteng: May 6 2008, 02:01 PM

wow, same case as mine where i offered my safe trader tag to be revoked.. lets see how mod handle this case

I got 1 question need to ask.

Why must 1 post PM sent, who he want to inform?
The receiver should know what???? Cant he see the red bar ontop?

That's the point, they don't have to. People do it to bump their threads up.

Yep well said.The mods has done their jobs and the action taken is justified as you can see for yourself in your own thread you posted "You Got Mail" for 12 times spanning 4 pages out of 5 pages.

That is indirect bump bump bump.Its not fair for the others cause your thread keep get bumped up and not giving any chance for the other sellers thread to be seen by buyers.

You are not the only seller here so please cut some slack and let the other do their business too

many buyers will tend to ask their questions directly in the thread. things like pls pm me the price or bank in details. yeah, i know the seller can just PM all of them and then keep quiet. but imagine if 20 ppl ask that question and the seller is not allowed to post any reply due to indirect bump rule. what will that thread look like? the next potential buyers will think the seller is missing. it is a courtesy to reply them. same goes to our daily conversations. if ppl ask you something, do you reply to everyone of them? or do you keep quiet and wait for 20 ppl to ask you questions first, then only you reply them one shot?

if the mods are still adamant on the indirect bump rule, then i suggest the forum just ban everyone from asking questions in the thread. let the seller post one msg, then lock up the thread. the rest of the sales can be done thru PM rite? and also the mods better spend their precious time from now onwards and start closing all the threads. almost all threads in the sales section are in violation of this.

Asking a question is fine, posting replies to questions is fine, asking for details in a pm is fine, telling someone UGPM is not. Why? It's useless and unecessary. If the guy get's a pm the forum informs him of it.

Look at it this way, if you were selling something and your thread was permanently stuck in the 10th page because people spam ugpm or some other unecessary post like Happy new year, happy wednesday or w/e everytime he wants to, would you be happy? No.

Also, if you see something you think is in violation of the rules, report it. I find it strange that people keep saying they see such and such is breaking the rules but fail to report it.

This post has been edited by malaysianPotato: May 6 2008, 07:55 PM

what if the seller ask someone to keep bumping the thread ? with different ip?

guilty?

I'm not sure, I don't handle trade zone stuff, but I'd guess so. If you think someone is doing that, report it and we'll look into it.

as i know,it's easy to fake a bump using the method mentioned by me at the above.

But, i suggest that a trade enforcer is on a volunteer basis and not selling any stuff in lyn. This will make trade enforcer clean and fair.

Any nominee?

We have our own way to investigate on indirect bump via dup or 3rd party.

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Added on May 6, 2008, 9:49 pm

Alternatively, the seller could just update the first post in the thread saying that all PMs are replied e.g. ALL PM on May 6 Replied. There's no need to post a new post to tell them UGPM.



The reason for us to implement this is to eliminate this unfair situation to happen. We want this place to be fair for all. Like what you said, if the thread is popular, it'll get bumped more whenever people posts in that thread, thus there's no reason for the TS to reply UGPM to earn another bump again. It's just redundant

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Added on May 6, 2008, 9:51 pmNot everyone can understand simple things like that. Some need to be slapped a few times before they can finally understand about indirect bump.

This post has been edited by vikingw2k: May 6 2008, 09:57 PM

the solution to this problem is very easy

we can re-activate the member's sales section for sellers with a certain numbers of sales thread. thus eliminating the comptetition between the smaller capacity seller.

or

we can relax on the indirect bump. i still see it is a courtesy to acknowledge a buyer even it's a simple "i've already sent you a PM" since the buyer asked the question first.

else

we can just sweep all this under the carpet and review case by case basis. whenever we spot one, then we hand down the hammer. and whenever a seller complains again "why my thread was locked while the rest doing the same thing are not", we can always use the same old statement "we have a life out there, we just can't control all of them", and "if you always complain, why aren't you the one hitting the report button". in the end, this cycle will just go on and on.

If we look back in history, the culture was nurtured due to the nature of most seller's inbox being overflowed with tonned of queries and request. Naturally when one seller has tonnes of customers to entertain, due to a number of sales, It will get full. Esp there are high demand or the pricing is good. That was before, I'm not sure on how big currently each users have been currently allocated.

IMO I think there should be like a notification news just like the small red inbox tab where by a short information pertaining to new regulation or enforcement. I would say more than 80% of users here don't bother to read all the rules or faqs even if there are updated. It may serve as a spam in the users inbox, at least, they are notified of the new regulations, Besides, they cannot give ridiculous reasons like, I didn't read about it as the title with the mail or notification has already shown beforehand

Ugh, I'd rather people not reply within a quote as I can't quote it into my post...



In addition to what viking said, the seller can also inform users of pm's being sent when posting a reply to a question asked in the thread(e.g The reason behind the slow delieveries is because I had a miscom with my supplier. @Whoever pm sent) . We have been allowing that, the reason is that there is no unecessary/unfair bumping of threads in that way.



As viking said, there should be no reason for sellers to indirect bump if their threads are already active. To say that it's because of sore losers complaining isn't exactly true. We want to be fair to all sellers, if we allow indirect bumping, why shouldn't we allow bumping all together? Then "sore losers" as you so put it can be right at the top of the first page by bot bumping. We don't want anyone to bump their threads up just because they can, we want threads at the top to be there because people want it there.



If that's the case, there should be no reason for indirect bumps all together, right? Cause it doesn't matter if their threads drop all the way back.

It actually is factual. If you look at all the complains about how mods pick on certain people, the complainers will keep saying that so and so did what and nothing is done about it... Yet when we look through the reports, noone has reported them.

We don't and have never asked users to go out looking for threads to report. What we ask of you is that if you see something you don't like, don't think should be there, or don't think is right, you click the report button.

If you report often, great. You have our(or mine atleast) thanks.

I wonder what does 'arrogant attitude' gotta do with the issue here. It's a deal between the buyer and seller. Potential customers trade with a seller not mainly depending on his attitude but credibility. What's the problem of not 'acting good' if he doesn't want to but still stick to all trade deals?

I'm still a newbie in this trade section and if Viking is closing Davis' thread of whatever indirect-bumping there is, then please do more cause I've came across more others like that in other threads as well. RBR, don't judge a person if you don't know him/her. Same goes to anyone who thinks others are arrogant just cause they do not communicate with you the way you intend them to be, right? Don't like it? Confront directly.

p/s: I do admit I'm quite -_-ll with Davis while dealing with him, but nonetheless he makes the effort to make sure a deal is alright, haha.

Arrogant attitude has alot to do with what we are doing here because this is a COMMUNITY FORUM. It means, automatically, without having to say it, that you RESPECT every forumer here. We provide the sales section as a goodwill service, we do not get anything in return for it. And free moderation. Please learn to give something back, like respect and courtesy.

there u are. u answered your own question. if that buyers are interested, they will still post in your thread "can you send me PM/ details" regardless of the thread attended or not so be it unattended or at the 10th page or even a closed thread.

This post has been edited by scotty: May 7 2008, 12:53 AM

I'll patrol around when I'm free, we'll be thankful if some of you guys could give us a hand by hitting the REPORT button whenever you guys come across things like this.

I already expecting this thread is drifting out of no where but picking the wrong from the past?

So can some one in authority power to answer this?
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=588872&hl=

Those who sitting on fence please do not afraid to give comment since this is community forum as highlighted, you are doing for your own good if you dare to voice out.

*Got member told me there are posting removed in this thread which sounds unfavourable to the power gripper, sorry I can't see that.

Thank you for your support.

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Added on May 7, 2008, 4:09 amhoongji,
That is one of the point in here.
We don't reply customer officially in the thread and they are complaining we are RUDE!!!! without giving official reply.

I have learned that I can't fit myself to play the rules of every one, I just be myself and doing my own good. Have any one notice I got put out one comment on each thread that I will starting to reply customer posting in that thread? I got complaint because I don't reply there and that is why I am RUDE!!!!

It is hard to please any one if you taken further steps to entertaint them like asking them to call up or meet up to have a look by themselves but none of them dare to call or meet up. So...? I am RUDE!!!! again.

Waiting answer for my #1 posting but some how what we have here is swaying away from answering but picking the left over bones.

This post has been edited by DAViS: May 7 2008, 04:09 AM

"Some various photo shots. " nice tactics. I should learn those.

This post has been edited by N's: May 7 2008, 04:12 AM

People doing things without hidden motive, so you have a motive doing that?
What is various photoshots?

Do you know that each posting only can contain 10 img link?
Do you know that once you have edited posting when the deal got stale customer would blame you changing the T&C?
Do you know that hosting up the photo in the posting while the photo need to upload and remove took a lot of time especially the anti spam kicks in?

ok, atleast u can explain the difficulties you're having cheers, if not the moderator dono 1. . Time to sleep.

This post has been edited by N's: May 7 2008, 04:18 AM

Quick history lecture.

In the bad old days, people would bump by typing "bump!". This resulted in 10000s of posts in the database containing just "bump" (back when the DB only contained about 1mil posts, not the 6mil it has today). Not to mention, conversations between buyer and seller get sandwiched between the pages of bumps.

Then, a bump button was implemented. In addition to making the topics look cleaner, the bump button also ensures for fairness that a topic is bumpable only once a day. I started cracking down on so-called "manual bumps" (which is posting the word "bump") to ensure that the bump button gets adopted.

Shortly after, some traders started getting creative. To bump up their topics and avoid the once-per-day limit, they started making useless posts (that don't have the word "bump") with intention to bump. This so-called "indirect bumping" was trickier to define, but generally if we see intention to game the system, we act on it.

OK, I have changed some things around Trade Zone. The bump time is taken from the first bump/reply made in the day (counting from 12AM). This means that as many times a topic is replied, it only gets one chance per day to go to the first page.

This should remove any gains from "indirect bumping", should free the mods to do more important stuff, and best of all remove any confusion about indirect bumping.

Please start a new topic if you have any feedback about this new change.

so for such post like "u got pm", "pm sent", "items sent", "payment received", etc still have to avoid save some server resources after implemented the wKkaY's new "bump for once" feature?

Good! All the while it can tweak that way.

Now we already have the same mechanism as long as you do not tick "Do not combine" when replying all those posting would merging together with the fore reply but contain in the same posting iD.

It's already there, work the same way. Now my question is, it is already work the same way then why I have to received the punishment for "excessive bump" in a rude way by just locked or even removed (where is my another two thread?) ? More so on the thread example that I have given (but nobody dare to reply me?).

You broke the rule before wkkay implement the new feature. Now you're allowed to reopen your thread, it's already a good thing for you. So, what's the problem now?

You haven't give me an answer as well. If this thread is because of excessive bump, why you relate this with your safe trader's tag and dig up my history 2 years ago? Oh yeah, you mentioned that you're giving up your tag, right? Why is it still there?

Ok thats enough.

A new thread may be opened to debate the tweaks to the bump button.