Many will say Arsenal and Barca has this beautiful football - always on attacking mode with short pass while every players running all over the pitch non stop. It nice to see them playing and entertaining. But, do you all want your team to be like them? I mean becomes an entertaining side but failed to win any titles? Or maybe only target for one or two title only per season?

Why teams like Liverpool, Chelsea (not MU maybe because their fans claimed that they're entertaining too) can't produce beautiful football? Is Rafa or AG (or Jose Mourinho before) don't know how to produce entertaining football?

no. i think most fans will prefer trophy rather then entertaiment football. Just like liverpool in 2005, people will remember they win the UCL, but wont give a damn they play boring or defensive football as trophy still matter the most. In fact most managers will do this ... same to those minor teams in epl when travel to the big 4. defend deeply to at least get a point.

if Man U play attacking football during the 1st leg i think Barca already booted them out with 2 to 3 goals ...

It's about different people with different taste. Some may care less on how the game is played as long as trophies won, regardless playing negatively or even unprofessionally (if you get what I mean).

Also, never label some teams (eg Liverpool, Chelsea etc) as teams that do no play beautiful football. I did see these team played good football in some matches (eg. Chelsea vs MU). It's just that they have different strategy for different games and apparently, most of these are not towards to beautiful football.


Back to Arsenal and Barca etc... to be said playing beautiful football. As an Arsenal fans, I have to admit that we do not play beautiful football most of the some time.

Anyway, please define what beautiful football is.

I agree that Arsenal did play beautiful football during our invincible season (long time ago). We played fluid, fast, attacking football that saw us scoring goals in split seconds.. Then, we were in a few transition seasons when players in those good seasons are either leaving us or phasing out. Finally, in these two seasons, we start playing different type of football, which is the multi-short-passes with the intention of controlling the game and possession. We are once again claimed as playing beautiful football. Yes, I enjoy watching it but I wonder if it's the same case for non-Arsenal fans.

This post has been edited by kimhoong: May 2 2008, 09:24 AM

First of all, playing entertaining eye-candy football does not mean a team can never win, Arsenal did and won as did Barca a couple of seasons back... I guess football goes in phases, sometimes, a tight disciplined unit wins while free-flowing teams can also win, as exemplified by Barca and Chelsea (and various others)...

No doubt, everyone wants to see a team that plays entertaining football, but at top clubs nowadays, the pressure to win is so incredible, making attractive football difficult... Arsenal have come under the microscope this season after the failure to win anything for 3 seasons now? But they are certainly entertaining...

Another point is the culture of a particular club...like any companies or organizations, if the culture is to play attractive football, then the fans have come to expect it... like Real Madrid, they won the La Liga with Capello last season, but it wasn't enough to keep him on the job, his football isn't attractive enough (or so we are told anyway)...

So I guess it boils down to a few factors; is winning the overriding objective? culture? as well as a massive dose of luck sometimes...

Individual preference as well, some people enjoy the Serie A, some people can't...

For me, winning is important but not everything, if the players that put on the jersey have shown pride and gave their all, even defeat can be fulfilling as a fan... showing pride in wearing the jersey is more important than playing good football...

Well, what made you watch football in the first place? The love of the beautiful game? Peer pressure? The marketing?

I for one think that if all teams played like the modern day Liverpool and Chelsea or even Greece for that matter, football will be terribly boring. Most of us support Liverpool not for the way we play, but for the traditions and ideals personified by our club. Given a choice, I'd want us to revert back to 'pass and move' anyday!

Most fans will want throphies at the end of the day. That matters most. Of course, the perfect senario is entertaining games plus throphies but this is not always a perfect world. It is all about strategies.

I thought I rememberd Ruud Van Nistelrooy used to say. He tried to produce to produce some beautiful goals back in his early days. The coach, if I am not mistaken is Marco Van Basten. So in order to produce some beautiful goals, he failed many times and when he scored, he pointed it out "See, how I put the balls in?" Then the coach said to him that, u don't have to produce beautiful goals. Just put the balls in. And the rest is history.

For me, "Beautiful football vs Result-Orientated Football", we have to get to basic. I think, back in our young days, when we still doesn't know about clubs, we watch football because we want to see goals. So, if the result is always 4-0 for Man Utd vs Name-Any-Club, I think I'll be satisfied, doesn't matter it is beautiful game or not. What I wouldn't want to see is, if Man Utd vs Small-Clubs, we score 1 against them in some unimportant game and we play negatively.

This post has been edited by DarkWan: May 2 2008, 09:27 AM

IMO,people are just whining about the team playing defensive football. But that's the way how they succeeded. No point in changing the way of playing if it goes on well.

football has changed alot , nowadays all the chairman or owner of the club need results n trophy , i m sure everyone love entertaining football , n i believe all the managers love it as well. The problem is u hav no idea how much the pressure they hav everyday, so some of them or in some big games they will choose to be more tactical than anything else, cause as i said, at the end of the day results is wat u looking for , unfortunately.

This post has been edited by heavenhell: May 2 2008, 09:29 AM

I agree with this.

No doubt fans would like to see their clubs pound their opponents into submission but in the end, it's the three points that count above all else. If you only support your club for the way they play, I can give you my assurance you'll switch teams the moment you change managers and your style of play changes. Fans today want to be entertained above all else.

I don't believe that playing entertaining football and winning titles are exclusive to each other. And to just give examples of Barcelona and Arsenal is just showing one side of the coin. Man Utd and Real Madrid are currently top of their respective leagues and they both have played entertaining football this season. It is possible to play good football and be effective at the same time.

i love beautiful football. i love to see goals. but most importantly, i love to see the spirit of the players. back to old days, Chelsea did play beatifully but they failed to win big thropy. but i still love them. why? bcoz they play with determination in each game (that i watch). and now, their playing style not that attractive but they already won EPL and can challenge the big teams in Europe. and i still love them bcoz now as i'am growing up, i see football more in strategy. not juz the entertainment or the goals. even in a bore 0-0 game, i still feel enjoyable while most of my friends that watch it with me keep complaining abt how boring it was.

so the conclusion is: enjoy the game

beautiful football is needed for sum excitement...
imagine every team not playing it, then football can b quite boring to watch...
then, we would hv less things to cheer on or clap our hands for...

I agree that current football scenario has force most of the clubs to play tactical football. It's a multi-million business and they cannot afford to lose.

I don't think anyone is saying that it cannot be done but question is, for clubs like Bolton and Wigan who do not have the resources to play beautiful football, do you still go out and try and play that way, get hammered 0-5 or play Route 1 football and nick a 1-0 win? I am all for the results. If United play every match like they did against Barca (first leg)but ended up with a quadruple, I'd be the happiest man alive.

Ya, exactly, I want that happen too. An entertaining football would produce good outcome, because you play for the win not for draw. Maybe exception, the like of Netherlands under Johan Cryuff time, developed total football and entertaining match but never win World Cup. The thing is we always remember they are still one of the great until now.

This post has been edited by killingspree: May 2 2008, 11:03 AM

But we're talking about winning titles here so I think we can safely discount Bolton and Wigan out of it
If United played like they did against Barca every match, chances are they probably wouldn't win anything
But that doesn't mean they were wrong in playing like that. You have to vary you tactics according to the opposition sometimes. To win titles you need quality. And quality players can play entertaining football. Whether they are given the liberty to do so depends on the coach in charge.

Does the italian play "beautiful" football?
What I wanted to point out is that not everyone has the same opinion on a beautiful game.
It could be boring to some but might turns out to be entertaining to others.

Anyway, like what was mentioned like others; beautiful play doesn't guarantee trophies or success which is the main purpose of footie matches these days.

sometime "boring football" can give u a cup/title like Greece do in 2004
but i prefer "joga football",i satisfied when watch Barca playing against MU even Barca lost
better win in style than win with negative football

i'm second that. .

changing pace and tempo of the game when an opponent pressure out team... actually i felt like football can produce more than one style in one game.. for the first 30 minutes, one team will produce beautiful football while the opponent trying to keep the pace. when the game enters 35 minutes of gameplay, the mood and style usually has changed.. they were in the tempo of scoring goals... total football is needed somehow but when the opponent start to produce their pattern of attacking, no more beautiful football will be practices.. that's why on that time we can see the passes will be given away.. player doesn't really communicate like they way the used before...fast break, tight defenses and more aerial attacks in the game.. in football. 3 points is what u want to earn...

If Arsenal don't play beautiful football, I wouldn't have watched soccer for so many years. It's the beautiful playing style that attracts me most,otherwise, football is plain tedious to watch,isn't it?

in the modern / commercial era football, it's better to win ugly rather than losing beautifully.
a lot of team are playing ugly in order to progress to the next stage just to earn their fair bit of the lucrative commercial / tv deal.
can't blame 'em though....

btw, i'd like my favourite team to win ugly and bagged the 3 points rather than losing 4 - 3.

if you love beautiful football u just assume football as entertainment.. for me football is my life.. i can't live without football.. i grew up with football.. the game is all about winning and scoring goals.. i cant accept if my team playing beautiful football but losing the game.. it's all about tactic.. sometimes u need to play defensive and sometimes u need to play offensive.. it's all depends on the opponent.. even a team like derby could produce entertaining football sometimes.. as long as u win the game, the way we play is doesn't matter.. there's no award for the most beautiful play team of the year.

But thats the only title for RM this season maybe. They lost Copa del rey and UCL. As for MU, they have to abandoned their style when facing Barca in UCL. They also lost the FA Cup and CC. For BPL, if Arsenal only concentrate on the league, they might still chasing MU and Chelsea for the title I guess.

For what I am seeing, to play beautiful football, a team must have a big squad, like having equally two good players in every positions. Or else they should concentrate on one title only. To play a short pasess, it requires a lot of stamina. Players must keep running all over the pitch. Fatigue and injury will be a big problem at the end of the season if they're taking part in most of the tournaments.

That's the only title for us yes..but it's also the only one which rewards consistency. Cup games are cup games. And yes while MU abandoned their style in the CL semi final I don't think you can just conclude that playing defensive is the only way to win titles. Milan last season scored plenty of goals. Barca won in 2006. I think if you dig up the statistics of previous winners; majority of them are attacking sides.

As for big squads, that's a requirement if you want to challenge for titles in the modern era regardless of style. And i dunno about short passing requiring more stamina. Long ball teams give the ball away alot and tend to struggle to keep possession. And they generally have to run alot to cover the space. So it all equals out for me.

I want my team to play beautiful so that i will be entertained. But i'll take the trophies above anything.

Conclusion: trophies > entertainment

It is always great if the team you support plays beautiful football just like how Liverpool played during the McManaman era. Yes, beautiful football is nice but in the end it is the points and trophy's that matters most.

Winning is the main objective, and then comes the art of perfecting, which is achieving the objective while doing it gracefully. I view it that way.

if you hate it when Greece won the cup, you a person that love beautiful football

and i'm one of them

winning is a must, style is a bonus ^^

The reason i support United is cos of the football we play. Rival fans maybe cant find themselves to agree with it, but at one point of time, it was undeniable that we were the best side in the league to produce such exquisite style and flair on the ball. Id take beautiful football anyday over results. Thats the way i am. I cant imagine United winning the league Greece-esque. Id never be satisfied cos there'd be nothing to reflect upon. Same reason why i hate to watch chelsea (except against Utd last weekend and Lpool in midweek). Under mourinho they were always playing effective football and i detest that approach, but it worked for em and it brought them trophies. Their style under grant isnt so monotonous so its better.

Like wat verx said, theres a reason why United and Madrid are on top of the league. Goals bring u the points home, and to get goals u gota have that attacking flair. United adopt this approach, and thats why United are on top with only a healthy goal difference. That goal difference is a result of the attackng mindset.

When need requires, United wud definitely revert to the 4-5-1 (ex. Nou Camp). As long as they dont do it on a consistent basis, im already satisfied.

As Queiroz said after winning the title last season, "The neutrals wudve definitely wanted us to win, it would have been injustice to football if otherwise."

i like the way football style been produce by any team as it is. i'll be bored if all team in this planet play beautiful style or all team play boring style.
every team is unique, some play defensive and some play offensive passing style that's why we enjoy watching football.

beautiful football was what attracted me to the game in the first place and it might sound weird, but i'd rather see arsenal play their beautiful football every week than play boring and win. i watch coz of the game and not just the win...

typical arsenal fans
I guess most of the arsenal fans love watching soccer because of its aesthetic value.

beautiful is not just for entertain spot.. but more for a way a player control the ball.. like cantona said.. make the ball happy..

players and the ball will connect to each other.. which side that ball are well suited... which side are the ball will control to the best form... and which side the ball should be place not only flying on the air.. (i dont talk about epl) cuz arsenal have beautiful football too...

sometimes when the team not play good passing.. not good accuracy.. it wasnt beauty.. will make the ball go no where.. some boring...

if we look for our local team a couples years ago, or a long - long time ago .. we have selangor, pahang, kelantan, sarawak and penang play beautiful football too..

This post has been edited by zeronehza: May 2 2008, 10:39 PM

why do u think there are so many people around the world watching football while other sports are not as popular..
because football is fun to watch...
if u take away the beauty of the game, its like football with no life..
and thats not football...
there's a reason why capello got fired while winning the la liga in his first attempt..get wat i mean?

fluid passing and attacking game in a fast pace can be very entertaining..it is more like attracting the opponents to keep up with the tempo..is beautiful football is what i am attracted to? well define what is beautiful football in the first place, is it fluid passing and attacking in a fast pace like what arsenal did..? My answer is no.beautiful football is attractive football in all departments, be it attacking or defending..Arsenal do play fast attacking football but what about defending? sometimes it can be very frustrating to let in simple goal after u score an excellent goal..if u win the game playing beautiful football, u deserve it, but if u win the playing negative football, do u think u will happy in the end when others says that it is just lucky, it is just ur day or ur opponents is off form..can u accept that as a hardcore fans..?..i do agree sometimes we need to accept that trophy is what matter most..and different strategy cater to different match, but to play eye-catching football is one that i am looking forward to..eye-catching in very department...fast attacking with fluid passing, with solid defending as well as good tactics..it comes in a package..

if u wanna watch beautiful football, then watch joga bonito, nikefootball.com

I maybe wrong.. but the same way goes to italy when they won 2006 WC.

well if the question is do you really need beautiful football i'll have to say yes. there should be a mix of both. as a fan, i'm entertained when my team wins a game. as a general football fan i prefer watching games with a lot of style and fluidity.

i think both of them should be balanced in a team. but i'd give winning 55% and style 45%. in the end of the day, u are a professional. u get paid to aide the team towards a victory. and i'll say victory comes first before style.

yes, for football sake, we really need beautifull football.. i personally dislike the negative way of playing football and the so called long pass type team (bolton, liverpool, england, greece). they play for the result only.. they did forget that fans pay ticket to be entertained.. i dont think that a true loyal fan will be very dissapointed if their team did'nt win anything but play a good attractive football. it is the manager and coaches job to win matches using good atrractive football. thats what make a difference between coaches. people like sir alex, arsene, rijkaard and a few more know how to make the team play beautifull football. i am pretty sure, that every football players in this world like to play a good football including us, but then again they need to listen on how their manager want they to play. the main culprit that that damage the beautifull football is those manager who afraid that by playing a good football will cost their job. message to all those managers, if you dont know how to make your team win matches by playing beautifull football, for football sake, please resign..

This post has been edited by presario9: May 3 2008, 12:42 AM

i believe managers nowadays are in intense pressure to bring success to the club, they need to play tactical tactics, something safe, winning 1-0 is already a fair results, enough to satisfy their multi-millionaire boss & to keep their job at bay.It is always difficult to play free flowing football, because you are attacking so intensively & most of the time your defence will leak out, thats has what been happening to Arsenal this season i believe. However, i'll still prefer to see two attacking team playing against each other. Tactical football are very much like italian football, no offence to italian fans but thats what i felt abt their club football.

I'm a fan of the beautiful football. For me, nothing beats watching a pulsating match, lots of good passing and dribbling, one touch passes and etc. I can see where you guys are coming from by saying trophies matters most at the end of the day. I cannot disagree with you guys on this as managers and bosses nowadays care about results more than anything else. You get sack if you don't perform. But there has to be a balance in doing so. I'd really hate to see a boring team play boring football but winning the title, but at the same time, you cannot say they don't deserve it.

Arsenal plays argubly the best football in England although i would stop short of saying they're the best in England. The best team in England wins the EPL league, period. People question why Wenger isn't sack despite not winning anything for the past 3 seasons. You got to admire the way he builts his squad, look at his limited resource, his youth superstars and they play the beautiful game. The fans love it, you'd hardly see any of the fans booing the team despite us losing. Because even if we lost, the fans know we actually went all out attacking to find an equalising goal or winner. Or if we're winning, you'd never see us retreating, play defensively, waste excessive amount of time and do any anti-football stuff on the pitch. That might have explained why over the year we tend to concede despite taking the lead or trying to protect the lead. To me, thats the way football should be played.

Couple of seasons ago, Norwich was playing in the EPL. Though they were relegated, i always thought this team played some positive football. They didn't go out the pitch, to try to secure a draw or to avoid a heavy defeat. They actually came out to play the game and try to win it. I thought it was very nice of them to play with that spirit. They conceded many goals but i still remembered them for the way they played. Similarly, in World Cup 2006 when Italy won it. If you ask me which team actually played the best football. Its not Italy but i personally think Argentina played the best but despite losing out, people still remember the scintilating football. Italy were efficient. They were playing very tight at the back, never concided much goals but they scored when it matters most.

Back to the question of Man Utd this season, lets not take the Barca match as an example. Whole season long, they actually played very good attacking football. They scored the most goals and conceded the least, so thats pretty good to begin with. Its only against Barca that they switched strategy but SAF probably had something on his mind by doing so.

As much as Avram Grant has promised to bring attractive football to Chelsea, i still don't see how has he fullfilled the promise. Chelsea is a good efficient side. They somehow gets the job done, but for me as i said, i'm a fan of beautiful football.

People have to take a step back and stop pigeonholing teams. If you want any amount of sustained success in terms of trophies you have to score goals. And to score goals you have to attack. I always thought it was unfair of ppl to label Chelsea defensive when they won their first title with Mourinho. They played some good football with their 4-3-3 system (I know some would disagree with me here).

And sometimes you also have to be clever with your tactics. Playing for the result is fine when there is a need for it. Even during Arsenal's "invincible" season I can remember there were times when Wenger would throw Kanu in just to hold the ball at the corner flag to waste time. You could argue that if the current Arsenal did more of that this season then maybe they would have still been in it right till the end. Just a thought.

Spot on giotto. Unfortunately circumstances are major determining factors these days.

Verx, scoring goals can be a portion of attacking football, however its never completely attacking football. Mourinho's Chelsea scored goals, but his team wasn't an attacking Chelsea; it was an efficient Chelsea. I'm not entirely sure if I can agree with your definition of good attacking football from Chelsea under Mourinho, unless of course, you mean that "good" football. About Wenger and Kanu's time wasting, I sense an accusing tone so I'll clear up some opinions. Do you see Eboue getting away scot-free from Wenger after he dived in an attempt to earn a freekick during the 05/06 ECL finals against Barcelona? See the discrepancies? I believe the decision to waste time was Kanu's himself. I wouldn't be satisfied if Arsenal were to win any trophies that way.

I'm surprised some fans place trophies above anything else i.e attacking football. I almost died of boredom from watching the Fiorentina - Rangers match. If any of the said fans watched the Fiorentina - Rangers match, I'd like to hear some response.

Football is a dynamic game. Chelsea's style may not have been beautiful as Arsenal but they scored goals so you can't say they are a defensive side. And all I'm saying is that I think ppl have to learn how to differentiate between the two. When they played with 2 wingers they did play football that was pleasing to the eye at times. But yes they do focus on keeping it tight at the back as well. I'm not denying that. All I'm saying is title wining teams have to keep a balance between attacking and defending. Where they find that balance depends on the coach.

And I wasn't accusing Kanu or Wenger of time wasting, I actually support it. It's part of the game. You have to be clever sometimes to win games.

And why is it Liverpool still have massive away and home following? Perhaps it's because we support the club for other reasons?

Just to add, I take offence to being compared to Bolton. I do not think Rafa is a long ball merchant. Houllier, yes. Rafa, no. Funny you should mention us and not Chelsea. No offence to Chelsea supporters, but I think you use the long ball as much as us if not more. I see numerous punts to Drogba each game.

This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 3 2008, 05:36 PM

true enough when robben and duff were on the flanks,chelsea were fluid in attack,as well as keeping the back line disciplined and efficient..many fans were disappointed to see those two go,as they gave chelsea a lot of flair (and goals btw) going forward.but as u said,there must always be a balance between defence and attack in order to win games..sticking to an 'attacking philosophy' when a crucial game's already won and ending up with a draw will surely displease most fans if not all.sometimes the spectacle has to be sacrificed for the greater good..unless of course u don't mind your club not winning anything season after season.that's why it's the nature of the modern game nowadays for most clubs to choose substance over style when the situation calls for it

my answer to that question been brought up, is NO, we don't need beautiful football..as we can see, football has evolved to be more tactical than ever..less and less creativity and flicks needed..but who really cares, there are still billions of people still watch football every day..as long as goals scored, and as long as people get something to celebrate for, joga bonito is no longer needed

and i agree, results and trophies are the most important thing..i know this very well, bcoz, as a barca fan, i always watch barca being defeated by teams that applied very disciplined gameplay with great tactics, with only 1 mission, to stop barca play our own brand of football(that is, exquisite through balls and beautiful one-twos)..especially in nou camp..man, sometimes opponents play like 9-0-1 formation with no intention of going forward at all over 90 minutes!!after that we got draw or defeat at home..and that really favours the opponents..barca's player look dejected, and opponents are jubilant and said "mission accomplished"..

beautiful football is not needed, win is needed!!

but, for me, i will be happy if my team win..but i will feel very proud if my team play beautifully..so i prefer my team to play beautifully ..dat is why i become a barca fans..barca always play beautifull football for generations..cruyff, maradona, ronaldo gemok, figo, many of those flair based players have played for us

conclusion, just enjoy the game

cheers

like i said la..after d match, football fans all over italy branded rangers with all types of swearing words..rangers were beingsonegativeover 2legs,but in d end who get to d finals?who will enter the record books?

that will help strenghten my answer regarding the question being brought forward

This post has been edited by matyrze: May 4 2008, 02:52 PM

You gave 2 very contrasting answers. One moment you're saying you don't need beautiful football and joga bonito is no longer needed. Towards the end you say you like Barcelona coz they always play beautiful football for generations, and that you prefer your team to play beautifully. So what is your final preference?

If you really do like Barcelona, i have a feeling you're a fan of beautiful football, not your previous statement of not wanting beautiful football. Barcelona and Real has always been about playing beautiful football. You'd realise that both this team always strive to buy the best players available ie Robinho, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Figo, Zidane and etc. The boardroom and the fans itself cannot tolerate the team playing boring football and even if the results didn't come, they know the shirts would still sell like hot cakes.

This post has been edited by giotto: May 4 2008, 10:53 PM

i comprehend the question wrongly ..MANAGERS and PLAYERS are d ones that don't need it

I need it i dun wanna fell asleep during matches..i once fell asleep at mamak when i joined my friends to watch a bpl game (dun wanna mention which team in 'action' that time)..boring gilerrr...

This post has been edited by matyrze: May 5 2008, 10:54 AM

Correct...

Whoever says Liverpool is a long ball team is not a keen observer of the game or he / she is just a biased competing clubs' fans...

The only player to clear it upfield apart from Reina is Carra, really stupid to suggest Liv being a long ball team...we pass our way up, period. In fact, sometimes I wished we would just kick it upfield a little more to make use of Torres' pace...

i dont know others people,but i NEED beautifull football for sure...go to youtube n type freestyle or well know skilled player's name from any team at search box..then watch the video from result..sape yg tak suke tengok?

Beautiful football, short fast paced passing, just an eye-catching performance from that particular team..
EVERYBODY loves to watch these kind of football, as a liverpool fan, i always switch on my tv, just to see Arsenal`s football...Nevertheless, Manutd are playing beautiful football too !

but i dont agree that, "I mean becomes an entertaining side but failed to win any titles"....
The year when Barca won the Champions League against Arsenal, they play beautifully, ends up with silverware...
Sometimes sad case happens like Arsenal, plays PREETY WELL, but lost some form, end up with no silverware...

[at the end of the day, the sponsors will be flooding in; if the big team always show the good results, no matter how ugly / defensive is their playing style.
i don't mind it if my favourite team win by a single goal margin....especially when they're playing in the final rather than playing beautifully and still end up losing 3 - 4
any disagreement?

If nt beautiful who want to watch...

some team play as-long-as-no-need-lose-so-park-bus tactic...do they even care about beautiful football?
ask barnsley when they beat the shit out of liv and chelsea..
ask reading..
do they wan beautiful football or they want a draw/win to secure their BPL position?

tak jugak. as long as fans strongly support their team (like barca..on this difficult time)...sponsor still coming becoz they know there's till a huge of potential buyer. (also other clubs like..the kops..milanisti..juvenitti..culers..madridista etc..etc) . even my team lost 10-11 in row..i'm still support my team becoz i'm always believe we'll strike back on the next (or another) season.

This post has been edited by fcbarcelona-my: May 11 2008, 11:46 AM

as long as you win, your football is beautiful.
if you lose, no matter how beautiful your football is, your club owner stil regard it as ugly

the big clubs ' huge followers worldwide attract the sponsors, and their results, players and playing style attract the followers. this must be the reason you support barca and not murcie or real zaragoza instead
barca play beautiful football. there is no denying it! but they end up with nothing and the clear out is planned. at the end of the day, it is still the result that matter most.

about the supported team, back in 1989, when i was a kid, i've had an option of joining my uncle with the all conquering kops team but i choose mu when they win virtually nothing. blame it on gary pallister but
my persistent paid off handsomely

exactly! any team can'park their team's bus in front of goal' and catch the opposite team they're busy pushing the bus away'
modern day football not necessary have to be beautiful. effective play is the name.
this may sound boring but watching the actors and divers on the field is far worst than watching a paint dry

With all due respect you weren't exactly an average side back then. Games between our two clubs were already competitive. You had good players like Jim Leighton, Paul Parker, Gary Pallister, Steve Bruce, Dennis Irwin, Ryan Giggs, Bryan Robson, Paul Ince, Lee Sharpe, Mark Hughes and Brian McClair in the side. Not bad by any stretch of the imagination and I'm sure you'd agree. If not because we were such a strong side back then I would say that your side underachieved in the 80's.

Dude I don't mean to be picky but we aren't "the kops". You won't like it if I called you "the Stretford Ends" right?

liv played longball???..if we were behind 0-1 and there's only 2minutes left u mean rite??



in houllier era that may be rite...but not in rafa's era...we r more into possession futbol rather than long ball team..there will be long & short pass thru the course of de game...but definitely not a 1 way style of long ball punt to penalty box!

giggs and irwin wasn't there yet. ince, mc clair, parker and hughes. yepp.
gary pallister entertain me with his run back to defend the line. thats it!
agree with you, but liverpool was just too formidable back then

err.... sorry about the kops. it was supposed to be the short form of the kopites.

This post has been edited by yngwie: May 12 2008, 01:01 PM

Ah I see no worries.

We were a formidable side of course along with you and Arsenal. Even Spurs were doing much better than while Chelsea was nowhere to be seen. It was a time where I would say all the top sides played fluid football and consisted largely of English or at least British players. It's the reason I find it so surprising that England can play really boring football at times, these days especially. I'm thinking it's because the have employed managers that are too disciplined in their approach like Hoddle and Sven.

i was still a kid back then but my uncle told me, if it wasn't the heysel tragedy, liverpool could bagged a few more euro crown.
england was once a feared team, they are a regular quarter finalist in world cup.
lately, seem like even a team like georgia can give em a run for their money
me too find it quite surprising; with the players of gerard, lampard and rooney(just to name a few) in their team, england still can't perform up to expectation.
no more flair in play. lack of creativity.....and thus, no results.