there's been some threads discussed about music schools and fees, and some career discussions going on in some irrelevant threads. so i'm suggesting a thread dedicated to music education and career. forumers can share their experiences, as well as seeking for helps like choosing colleges/uni, career etc etc. this thread is going to be huge and with a lot of database about music schools, fees, colleges, universities, and all sorts of careers like teacher, performer, music engineer, composer, arranger etc.

any volunteer going to start this thread? i'm lazy to update the first post and post informations given by forumers.

___________________________________________________________________________


OK, the discussion is on, guess i have to be the TS and manage this post. please tell me if there's anything i should manage this thread.

as a general rules of this thread, before you post anything destructive and bashing, studying the word "respect".




This post has been edited by little ice: Apr 20 2008, 06:33 PM

Most people, when talking about career in music, probably think in terms of being a superstar, or release albums as a band.

I think those are every musician's ultimate dream but alas, I am not too sure about the potential of such a future in Malaysia unless you target the Malay audience. I always hear people complaining about no future in Music in this country, but if you use your head and think out of the box a bit, there're many ways you could try without falling down hard and still earn a decent living.

It's not to say impossible, but you could get Nathan East's dvd video where he talks about career in Music.

For Chinese/mandarin based musicians, from what I heard, Taiwan is the place to go.

Even the non-vocal bands, can make a career by releasing instrumental based songs (preferably original, or you could license them) as albums and sell in other countries. I think these non-vocal based songs have potential since it transcends language barrier.

Of course, I only speak from what I gather from the local musicians/bands I know.

These are the ultimate dream lah, releasing your own album. Some also write songs for famous big stars in Asia and collect royalty from them. Usually these people are armed to the teeth with music theory and know how to create/write great songs without the need to be too specialized/proficient in any particular instruments.

After that, comes other choices, where if you're not stubborn or eccentric enough, below are lists of career options I can think of.

1. Game music composers, charge your fee as an independent contractor, but your style of music knowledge must be wide, and you need a lot of IT skills to deliver your songs in digital format , which may not necessarily just be wave/mp3, could be .MID or for people like me, I prefer them in Mod/XM/S3m format since long running music can run and repeated for hours and take only 100kb or less, probably even less with compressed samples. I am heading towards this path because I need these for my projects, and very few people locally know how to create proper game format music that I want/need. If you know how to create XM/S3m/IT/MOD based songs, please PM me.

2. Create mobile ringtones, either original or rearranged/licensed songs, for mobile ringtone companies. There was a boost in demand in the recent few years for musicians to work on these ringtones. I used to work in a big mobile ringtone company but not as a musician. I know many musicians in this particular industry last time and some are visually impaired people who even managed to get in.

3. You can even branch into sound processing/mixing later on if you want, learn up sound engineering, etc, and learn to be good at computer software.

4. Be a music teacher, don't look down on this path. This is lucrative, especially if you're good in 'snob' instruments such as the Piano and violin. You can give tuition and work less than 8 hours a day, less than 5 days a week, girls are notorious for sweeping this industry. hehehehe.

5. Work for yamaha or similar big companies as a sales consultant, then work your way up as a manager, get paid a full-time job but at the same time, work on your own songs and music and hope to make it big one day as a band/musician. This route is taken by many rising guitarists who wants to be able to learn many things about various guitars and amps, without having to spend so much money on them. They get to work and learn, and play guitar (bosses encourage this to attract customers). It is a sort of a dream job for the young musician. Some of these people really manage to convince stubborn guys like me to part with my money. These fellas can really create GAS in you. Buggers.


Overall, computer knowledge, is bloody essential, not just simple computer knowledge, but knowledge of good software like Cubase, and the likes, etc.

If all you know is play the instrument and don't know how to use computer based software to record/edit/mix/arrange your music, you probably can't go very far unless you just aim to join some orchestra (but you gotta be the best of the best lah, usually parents damn rich to send you to snob instruments classes).

Even Steve Vai knows how to use computer software to edit/mix/arrange his own songs. I really take my hat off this guy, these people really really know how to improve their knowledge even at such an age. They're so humble and willing to learn.

Even Nathan East is IT equipped, my jaw dropped when he brought his whole 'band' in his notebook. *LOL*

Unless you're a vocalist, I think other areas of music has more potential and are more 'safe' choices. I think the type of musicians who really need to worry about their career are the vocalists, unless they're into those snob vocals like opera tenors, sopranos and the likes.


One more thing to add, I believe we live in very interesting times. Production cost of musical instruments have gone down, thanks to China and Indonesia's labor and material costs.

Gears nowadays, I feel are more affordable, decent in quality for the price. Compared to other people I know who spend money on tech gadgets like mobile phones and high end notebooks and DSLR cameras, I think my expenditure did not have to go near theirs to get decent gear that I desire, unless of course you're talking about the Piano, which I think is not as cheap as last time due to rising cost of the wood because of deforestation. (But this is where the digital piano comes into the picture, such as the Yamaha Clavinova)

Overall, I am glad that my spending comes at a time when these gears (electric guitar) is within my desirable range of budget.

well said bman!

but this is not official thread yet leh, anyone want to volunteer to open a proper one? bman's post can duplicate and post other the proper thread later.

Wow bman's post is very informative
I have been thinking about my career to be a musician as well

I second the path as being a music teacher. My friend's music teacher earns roughly 10k per month for being a full time piano teacher
This path is hard to begin at first, but when you get your first student, the second and third will come. You can teach at music centers and quietly "pull" the students and giving them private lessons, without the music center as a middle man to earn more

Another thing worth considering is to go to some of the Western countries once in a while to do some street performance. Westerns view of street performance is different from here in Malaysia. They do not take street performance as "cheap" but they will admire your talent. My violin teacher did that and she told me about it, can earn RM1-3k just for a week there but this is not a career to be depended on

they're called buskers (such a sensitive word ). i've saw some during my trip at london. singer with guitar in LRT (they call it tube), sax players on street, i even saw harp player! very nice.

but i admire your teacher can earn 10k per month, that's some really good money. but i bet your teacher is really good.

why not be somebody like gapnap.blogspot.com

haha. i was just waiting for gapnap to post here.

eh gapnap,
so have u decided between
1. fvk working life and go full time PUB/Event band
and
2. fvk working life and go full time PUB/Event band

everyone else, got any questions on music career, just ask gapnap

seems like people are talking about modern education/career.

ok, lets start, im talking on behalf of both sides, and i dont take sides.
(i do alot of reading in wikipeida so im not writing crap)
lets start with classical education:
a normal classically educated student of music usally starts their education at 5-7 years old. they learn the music based on baroque,classical, romantic and 20th century music. the learn and take exam based on LCM, ABRSM or trinity exam halls. the take theory from ABRSM exams.
a classical student usually studies by grade.( grade 1-8, diploma ).

As usual, a normal oversea music college/university usually only accepts a student who has a minimum of grade 5 and above( but they only take auditions and diploma students:note the minimum). there, they train a student based on classical studies left behind by bach etc etc, and studies performance, orchestral works, history of music, etc etc.

Students who come out from there becomes conductors, music teachers, orchestral players, etc etc.

Ok, now lets move on to MODERN(contempary) Music.

these students can either be classically train/self taught/or teacher taught. these students does not follow the classical way of learning, and are differed from person to person. either way, some college would accept student without a thoery grade exam by putting in fundemental area. students in there learn jazz studies, hearing, improvisation. there are currently not many music college which teaches modern music, but the famous ones would be ICOM and BERKLEE.

the people graduating from these college would become singers, band players, sound producer, teachers, jazz musician etc etc.

hope that clears up abit, either way, check up wikipedia or music website for infomation.

just a suggestion. if anyone wants to opt for classical degree, i wouldn't mind recommend USCI. however, it used to be really good college and i've seen some great graduates around 5~6 years ago, not anymore now afaik. i know a few top notch classical musician teaching there as well and probably that's the only advantage.

i don't think there's any uni/college offering better classical course as for now. however i'm not quite sure how it compare to trinity/abrsm full diploma/degree course (does it even exist?).

same thing goes to ICOM which offering modern music courses. there're a lot of superb graduates who're jazz musicians which you'll see them performing in jazz festival often. i know quite a lot of ICOM graduates and current students, man, ICOM now sux hard, sorry to say that. and the fees will make your eyes pop out. whatever it is, i think ICOM is still better than USCI modern music course. i've been to their campus, man the studio actually already better than many budget studio out there, despite it's for school!

as a general rule of thumb if you want to success by doing degree, you have to depends solely on your own. not that you don't socialize, don't expect the school to spoon feed you. i can honestly tell you that less than 20% you can expect from school, the rest you have to learn it with your eyes and ears, and you have to take own initiative to keep yourself moving. many graduates nowadays don't posses good knowledges and skills because most of them expected the school to spoon feed them, or they simply want to pass the exam and get the cert.

This post has been edited by little ice: Apr 20 2008, 06:35 PM

This is exactly like the IT industry.. aiyooo... except in Music if you make it, you make it big.

to me, there are no good classical music uni/collge in malaysia. my teacher ask me to go oversea and not waste my money here.

wat u expect
http://www.icom.edu.my/html/fs.php
u check this guy out, he learned guitar for about 2 years( somemore go to national service ), he already want to learn music. he did not understand a sigle thing about music other than strumming chords and icom accepted him.
I BEt many of our lowyat member can play a WHOLE LOT better than him but dont have the money to pay. rich kid.

anyway,
A person who picks up classical course would be
CLASSICAL COURSE: PIANO, VIOLIN, CELLO, FLUTE etc

A person who picks up modern courses would be
MODERN COURSE: ELECTRIC GUITAR, DRUMS, KEYBOARD, DIGITAL MIXXING, AUDIO EDITING etc etc

---

Added on April 20, 2008, 8:00 pmwell, ABRSM Full diploma/degree courses would be taught by ur teacher. the cert is not as good as a uni cert of course.

wow, there are many great uni/college offering music!!
EXAMPLE:
Trinity College of Music
Juilliard School
London college of music
West Virginia University
University of Montana
University of Oklahoma
Thames Valley University

....



umm, i guess GREAT music uni/college would be oversea, is not that malaysia music college is not good, is that it cant be compared to oversea.

just that..........

OVERSEA= EXPENSIVE

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 20 2008, 08:00 PM

hahahahha...

yes , i have decided ...

anyway , some tips ...for Music Career in Malaysia ...

is not how well you play , is not what you can play..basically the only thing that matters is ...


your network


no network = no money
teaching might get you some money in the short term
infact , you can actually make RM3000-4000 from it in a month

..but as u grow older ..your friends around you are like getting 8k-10k..
forget teaching , you need to charge RM400 per student to get that income

actually, the college/uni i mentioned is actually quite good, for the price. of course, you do not want to compare them with international one (those you mentioned are top class la). i've seen some great performer with great success and they're graduates or ex-students.

talking about oversea schools.

firstly not everyone can afford that kind of cost. you're looking at few hundred grands of cash if studying at the school mentioned. secondly, even you have the money, they probably won't let you in, because of the high standard.

secondly, going oversea doesn't mean the schools are always better. i've been to london, and visited a university offering music degree. man, i can tell you how sux it is, even worse than local ones. yes, you got to know many foreign students and friends, you see different things, but i can tell you, the fees is already expensive for school that actually sux, so it's definitely not worth it. if you ever enter such school and you didn't get to compare to the local one, you're actually wasting even more money.

my opinion is, it's either you aim 2+1 courses (2 years local and 1 year oversea to open big eyes see see), full local courses, or full overseas high end courses. in my experiences, local uni/college can still learn a lot, especially talking about stuffs other than instrument performance. however, afaik, there's no master degree offered locally, so to go for master, you have to study abroad.

that's the very big problem of local schools. both UCSI and ICOM is aiming at $$$, they have nothing to care except money. they have earned their big names because of the graduates from the past, but not anymore. it's not that there's no good teacher and good environment, but you'll find many schoolmates/classmates must worse than you around.

don't get me wrong, some oversea school ain't no better either. and did you ever notice ABRSM standard also dropped like sh!t? if you have a chance to play grade 8 pieces in year 1990, you'll immediately understand what i'm trying to say.

---

Added on April 20, 2008, 10:45 pmi definitely agree with you that, network is very important. but that only come after ability in music. if a person have the ability, but no network, yes, there's no money. but if a person without ability, sorry, don't even talk about network.

i'm not sure if you actually meant network is above all aspects, that's actually destroying music industry if you trying to make people think that way. i know you sell gears, making money is top priority for you, and that's absolutely fine with me. but the real music making is not about money IMHO, money is a must, but not a "must", if you get what i mean.

RM400 per student is not something uncommon in malaysia. a master degree holder is charging typical fees of RM120 per hour x 4 = RM480 per month. there're plenty of good teachers earning at that amount.

that said, teaching is not for money. money is a return for the effort, but in the end the main purpose of teaching is to pass the knowledge and skill to the next generation. it's just that, high level and experiences teachers made their way to that level with a lot of efforts, so they cannot simply charge low price and that's absolutely fair.

PS: you'll be surprise there's actually plenty of teachers earning at 5 figures every months.

This post has been edited by little ice: Apr 20 2008, 10:45 PM

Lately i am beginning to seriously have my doubts on that. I mean of course if you really can't play a single thing forget it. But the level that you need is not really that high. Based on what's been coming out lately, it's not really difficult to play most of the stuff you hear today. With a little practice most people can do it. I know of someone who's in the music scene as a drummer, but never played 1 gig as a drummer. He's done piano and bass (and he's not that good at it ) and saxophone and gets paid lots for it. Well he's better at piano but the other 2 are just really "fooling around" instruments. And that was good enough for many occasions.

This post has been edited by Bassix: Apr 21 2008, 02:38 AM

i know how you feel man. sometimes, tipu tipu also can earn a lot of money.

but this really ain't healthy for music industry really. sadly but it's true this sort of things happen. it's all because business minded clients who don't have a single clue about music.

although not directly related but, i've once told by a noob producer who asked me to do a song arrangement for him. i took quite some time to finish one song, and he said the client screwed him up because of the late work, and he told me they will not want quality, they just want things to hit the dateline.

so you can imagine, because the one who pay the money doesn't really care. so basically anyone can tipu tipu can already grab business and do. but music is music, each song is unique, and each work going to get heard by everyone. if foreigners (including the real musicians) came and heard our crappy works, imagine that, "woah, malaysia really boleh".

i have no doubt, the drummer you've mentioned will only able to tipu within malaysia (sorry for the straight forward comment). they'll not get recognized worldwide, and will not get good reputation among musicians. i certainly against such situation. if i got a job that's not within my expertise, i rather not do it. it's money, yes, but don't let money destroy the music industry. i'd rather let anyone with real skill to do it.

ok, to be fair, not everyone is a pro right from the start. there're certainly the "low budget" markets, for those who doesn't have much money to get involved. but i'm more concern how the musicians will think. we have to keep moving and improving, and pass the opportunity for the fresh graduates and new comers in the industry.

PS: feel free to debate about this.

quite an idealistic view you have there...
But if your income depends on getting gigs then i guess you won't really have a choice. Sure you only can tipu tipu, nobody would deny that. And this drummer guy is also complaining because he's a drummer and he doesn't get credit for being a good musician because he's not playing his instrument. But hey, the stupid thing about money is, you need it.

if there's no choice, cannot choose lo.

yeah, to be fair there ain't any healthy market here to start with.

You know, the only instance where I see an actual musician would be useful in the eyes of those non-musicians would be when you need to perform live in a gig etc.

If they just want offline media recordings such as Mp3, wave, etc...


Haiyoo.... no need any musician who knows any instruments.

Just use computer software, arrange all the notes for the lead, rhythm and percussions etc using software and hand up...

Bet ya those people can't even tell if it's recorded in a studio or computer generated.

This is ultimate tipu but 1 person alone probably can sapu all the money.

So... must learn how to use cubase and similar software already.

Knowing how to play instruments alone very susah cari makan outside of gigging in clubs etc.

Technology will overtake many traditional jobs, and never would one's slightest expectation that they would replace musicians who only know how to play instruments and can't compose/arrange songs.

This post has been edited by bman: Apr 21 2008, 04:25 AM

well..of course what i mean was....
you don't need to have that "special ability" ...you can just be an ordinary player , can play in time , can do simple solos , groom well on the stage , some creativity, right attitude..and with large network ...you are fit enough already

of course not until change chord also got problem and enter the industry la..lol

well, i used to be one of those ...practice 4 hours a day , write my own stuff and all not expecting any money in return kinda of musician..
but as i grow older , dealing with medium size event companies , agents , top musicians around not bedroom wankers , clubs n pubs..
i see things differently-lah....i dono whether i am getting more mature or going backwards . probably backwards.

This post has been edited by gapnap: Apr 21 2008, 01:31 PM

ok i must admit my view is indeed too idealistic.

what you've said is very true also. that's what i'm actually seeing now, just the same as yours. sometimes, a detailed work will never get appreciated. most of the time, clients just want fast, reliable, and cheap. quality? nah, they don't give a damn really.

i've also know a friend who's violinist. he absolutely play like, uh, i really don't know how to explain. and yet he's working at the industry of earning 4 figures by just playing a few songs. however, you know, he has packaging. dress like superstar, play violin pieces in fusion style like vanessa mae, and he's good looking too. it's just the way he play. i don't even dare to say he has half of vanessa mae.

however, i still believe that, if you're truely an expert of your own field, there's always a chance to breakthrough. i've deal with quite some good paying clients who actually know about their own stuffs, and they're happy with my stuffs, and slowly i got a chance to have my works presented at overseas. at the very least, i'm targetting on the standard that world musician will look at, rather than the standard the clients want, so no embarrassment will happen and people will gain respects too.

im kinda lost

Are we talking bout gigs, classical education, modern education or what XD?
before posting try to specify what we are talking about before ending up in flame-war.

im going to share a fact here which is true but sad( applied for classical instrument like piano etc etc etc, not guitar or drums IM BEING SPECIFIC =p)
Classical player can play classical and modern music
a modern palyer can only play moden music.

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 21 2008, 03:43 PM

Yeaaaaa! Crossroads 1986 Eugene Martone vs The Shredder from Hell !

you keep it up my brother....

i already gave up..i had accepted that this world is an unfair world...

your effort doesn't pay back

anyway , what are you? composer ? care to share any recent projects you done ? advertisement ?

we're talking about music industry in general. the one who pay the money is not a person who have a clue about music and leading to some musician don'y really care about quality in the end, play very good and play normal also get the same money.

flame wars and debates are different thing leh.

no objections. classical music is father of all modern music. one can only learn the skill from classical, it's the root.

NEVER GIVE UP!

You can always do other job/work for a living but never give up the dream.

Nowadays, with the Internet and youtube, we should be even more grateful because we have a chance to introduce ourselves, and get more contacts/network.

We just need to be less stubborn and adapt.

thanks!

yeah it depends on lucks too, maybe i'm a little more lucky that said. i have a friend who's one of the rare ones that actually can make you melt with his piano playing. the tone he produced is to die for. however, he didn't quite involve in gigs and large performances as well as music productions (he's a good singer too!).

i'm a music arranger. i mainly do pop music arrangement mainly for artist in chinese industry. i've also did some sondtracks for local animations too but that's of a rare project. i don't do jingles anymore. i did tried some, but it's really not within the reach of my composing skills. composing for commercial ads and composing for pop songs is just 2 different thing. and the pay for jingle writings, just, wow.

sorry to tell you that i'm going to stay anonymous at the moment, as i don't want to get involved in music industry politics too. however, i'll create some short clips just to give you an idea of what i've been doing. maybe soon i'll post it up on youtube.

ya, even jay chou is classically trained.
u may be asking. whats so diffrent with jay??
well, if u pay attention to his music, he uses alot of secondary chords and suspension 4 n 9, dimished 7th, flatten 2b etc etc which are usually use in classical music.
many pop songs doesnt use these "classical styly" and just do
C Am F G
C Am F G

Am C F G
Am C F G

Which gets boring eventually
wish i had a good video cam where i can record good quality music. then i would be uploading non-stop of music, ranging from baroque to romantic, 20th century to pop, game music to random music

with such a big variety of pieces i upload in youtube, i would have lots of sucriber in no time


'cept i dont have a video cam

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 21 2008, 07:26 PM

hahahahaha..cool..

hey , if you need a guitarist-sessionist ..remember to call me ya ..dont always call david chin

normally it's the producer decide which guitarist to call, i also love to try out some other guitarist. normally there's only 2 guitarist 95% appear often in recording session, they're jamie wilson and hisham.

debate over?

Tat was fast.

shall i make a conclusion?

classical>modern

provide a valid reason please?

and which part do you think classical>modern?

This post has been edited by little ice: Apr 24 2008, 05:23 PM

Classical vs Modern is like

Tube amp snobs vs solid state amp/modeling crowd.


Digital Modelers all the way!!!!


To hell with tube amps and the snobs

ah ha.

Ok lets call apon 2 person, 1 classically trained, second, a comtempary player.

now i put 1 grand piano and 1 keyboard.

first i ask the classical player to play the grand piano and keyboard. he playes wells and explains what he played, the intervals, the key signature, the composer, the dynamics, the beauty of it.

next i ask the competary player, he only plays the keyboard and says "Rock on!".

Debates continues


Dont let the thread die........yet

tsk tsk tsk.

all i see is your arrogance and ego. and your examples are, pathetic.

tell me, why do you want to use a n00b contemporary player as an example? do you think all a modern player can do is, uh, "rock on"??

brilliant.

This post has been edited by little ice: Apr 24 2008, 08:13 PM

horrible example.

i always thought

modern > classical

since classical is kinda " dead " playing... play true to the tempo and blah blah never change anything...

while modern... u can play with the tempo... and song's dynamics... it's up to the player's intrepretation... ^__^

i don't think there's anything to do with the genre.

a good music is a good music. a good music will have dynamics and soul, be it classical or modern.

i consider that's a bad player if he only "play true to the tempo" and "never change".

haha, i wrote it just for the fact tat the debate can go on XD

its has nothing to do with the gene, but the player!

if i were to say modern player sux tat means im insulting mychemicalromance( )

it actually depends on the player

Classical players, you all are looosaaahhsss.

So what if you know all the theories ?

You all are doomed to be nothing more than robotic players who reproduce all the classical scores by mozarts, beethovens and the likes of them, and none of you could ever come up with pieces that are commercially viable enough for the mainstream yuppies and teens and youths. You're all doomed to entertain uncles, grandpas, grandmas only.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Most of all the nice songs we hear nowadays are all modern pop/rock and stuff.

They make $$$$$$$ and more youngsters heard of Nirvana, Linkin Park, Britney Spears than they've heard of Chopin, Paganini and the likes.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk.

These musicians probably died paupers compared to people like Quincy Jones, Dionne Warwick, Debbie Gibson, you get the idea.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

omg..
everyone here is writing so long tat i dun hav the time to read all of it..
for me..
im still 18 goin for my uec exam..
but my dream is to be a musician..
so im kinda struggling on staying for the uec exam or juz focus on my music path... (someone may not knw wat is uec . uec is a something like stpm certificate for independent high school student which is approved by a lot of university except local gov university due to some reasons)
but..
im in science stream..
its nothing to do with music except getting scholarship...

anyone can giv me some suggestions??
for staying for the uec or focus..

btw..
looking forward on ucsi.. XD

i think its a lil bit off topic...

lol..........i LOL'ED XD

OMG OMG..........give me a moment to breath........

ok, let me explain...... listen carefully, to be a good musician, if u know classical knowledge, you have a hugh amount of information in your head, u understand cadence( its whereby how a chords leads to another ends sounds), u understand interval, u understand intervals, u understand everything about chords, melody writing, and FYI, classical player dont just study "classical", we study from the baoque period to contempary. YES!! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD! WE STUDY COMTEMPARY!!

We study musicians from the year of 1900 till now, we study the beatles, we study every musician who made an impact in history. we study how their music, how the chords are arrange difrently from the classical period, how debussy change the music scence, its all under music.

Classical student dont just "LEARN" to paly mozart, we learn ALL, we are Expose to ALL, we go to orchestral, we go to rock concerts( i go MCR XD), we do everything.

WE study the modern scence, wat makes this band song diffrent from this, while does this key melody change is diffrent.

EVEN ME, a classically train, sit downs and listen to linkin park and comparing it to my chemical romance, and see which chord and melody shift made the huge impact in key modulation which mades the music so special.

and for your information, if u check PROPERLY, a wass amount of comtempary musician/singer/producer graduated from a classical university. why are their music so much better than yours? cause they understand music better than you. the have a HUGE amount of knowledege, they know every detail of the history of music, they understnad CHords SOOO MUCH better than you!

if i were to write a chord for u , b2b( flatten-2b) can you tell me what does this chord mean??

NO!

But if u ask a producer or a singer, they can explain.
just because they are comtempary singer doesnt mean they arent trained classically.

u are narrow minded. please think before you speak. u sound childish eventhou im younger than you.......by alot

---

Added on April 24, 2008, 10:29 pmP/S: i play the electric guitar and im in a band.

im 16.

and im classically train.

does that mean i cant play modern piece?

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 24 2008, 10:29 PM

me too ehh...
maybe my band can hav a crossover wif ur band leh...

and bman...
think when u talk..
i play classicals too...

julliard
Michael Giacchino, Composer, "Lost", "Ratatouille"
David Bryan, musician, Bon Jovi
John Williams, Composer, "Star Wars", "Jurassic Park"


David bryan from bon jovi graduated from julliard. a top rated music college in new york. Wait, HE WAS CLASSICALLY TRAIN? WHY IS HE IN MAINSTReaM?!?! OH NO!! BMAN, i thought.... u say classically train players are loser, then bon jovi are losers?? and they will never penetrate mainstream??

lesson? think before you talk. just because u think so, doesnt mean its right. if you are not sure, do some research before assuming

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Added on April 24, 2008, 10:46 pmomg JAY CHOU IS A LOSSAAAHHH TOO!!

cause he was classically train therefore jaychou will NEVER enter mainstream with the music he wrote because he is CLASSICAL TRAIn.

hey........wait a minute....

Jay chou is one of the most successful taiwan musician.

bman, i prove u wrong again.

can i post another hundreds of examples?

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Added on April 24, 2008, 10:49 pmoh can i share abit of "CLASSICAL KNOWLEDGE"

let DIDI tell you abit of music history.

J S BACH(Johann Sebastian Bach) was the founder and creater of the diatonic scale.
Diatonic scale= c major, d major, e major, F major etc etc

before BACH, ever piece is played in MODE, which is the dorian and etc etc.

SO lets imagine, if JS BACH nv created the diatonic scale, would there be mainstream music like now? will you be able to strum chords??

we must not neglect our roots.

i prove u wrong again Bman.

WAit, i will bring in another hundreds of example if i have the time

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 24 2008, 10:50 PM

Duhh.. but I make more money than you. Duuuhh..

I am sure you can play a modern piece.

Nobody's saying classical players can't play modern pieces. In fact, I always advocate a classical background to my friends who really wanna make music their main career to give them an advantage, especially if they are going to write songs/music one day. It helps a damn lot in soloing as well.

What's questionable is whether classical music lovers could come up with pieces that the young generations nowadays wanna listen. It's not just the talent alone, but the attitude. You can be damn good but if you're stubborn and don't want to deliver what the mainstream desires, then starve lor, even if you have skills like the next beethoven, especially in a time where very much less people appreciate beethoven and the likes of it.

But anyway, I don't like nirvana or linkin park or britney. I just oblige your urge to have something to debate on. I know you musicians are a weird lot, and talented for sure, but creative people tend to have problems getting along with their colleagues, and they're usually their own worst enemies, so no matter how talented they are, one way or another in their life time, if they don't thread carefully, they'll trip and f*ck themselves up over and over again. This is the same with artists, the painters, etc..

The music industry is dominated by corporate labels that know what the people want, and they also know how to shape what people want. So if one is so adamant on his/her own believes then you either start your own label for marketing/publish, or fade away into oblivion, even if you're the next prodigy who is as good as beethoven.

I would much rather make money selling the software I wrote, using music as secondary helper to what I do. Not gonna make music my main career because the chances of being totally independent are much harder than compared to being an IT geek hitting it big with his next software, especially in a country like Malaysia where creative industry has the least opportunities for those who desire to be in them, and even Singapore is not spared from such problems.

Not meaning insult musicians in this forum, but most musicians I know, are kinda starving, precisely because they cannot adapt, too firm/strong in what they believed in and unable to evolve, not just musically, but socially, and also unable to take advantage of technology, so most of these talents are left behind and fade away.

Talents, are a dime a dozen, if I don't like your face, you're a nobody, that's how the industry is, that's how people with money view their workforce/employees. Sad, but that's the truth, so there's no need to really say

Oh I am classically trained, but I am better than you modern players.


Ok fine, then we send the prodigy to some big corp label and instantly the guy in suit guy says ' I don't like your f*cking face and attitude, and talents like you are a dime dozen, I don't need employees/stars that are too talented but difficult to work with. I just need someone who is good enough, and I can package him/her up and make guys or girls go crazy over him/her and fatten my pockets'

So you see, talents are only a small part of what will shape your future/career.
Many talented musicians, artists, creative people have been buried alive in their career simply because they don't know how to evolve not just musically, but socially and commercially.

Talents are a dime a dozen, and this applies not just in music, but also other industry, IT, game development, you name it.

When one is not in a position to shape/change or influence anything, best not to rattle the status quo until one reaches that level, unless you wanna be buried prematurely like how I was in another industry, but that's another story to tell for another day.

MIKE SHINODA from linkin park.

After that, he began taking piano lessons, studying classical pianist techniques- wikipeidia

WAT WAT?!

bman, i prove u wrong again again again again.

shall i countinue my debate or AM I CLEAR?

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Added on April 24, 2008, 10:57 pmwow, bman, from ur post again, seems like ur mind is really NARROOOWWW.

please open your eyes, just because u are from a low side of society, u nv seem to see the big picture.

Many malaysian suceed in the music industry, is whether how hard they strive.
And no, good player dont starve FUI, only loser end up like that.

Take guang liang, he was classically train, and where is he now??

see, just because u suck, doesnt mean other people suck.

Many musicians are playing in orchestra all around the world, and your not.

please, OPEN UR EYES and widen your mind.

your posts are immature and childish.

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Added on April 24, 2008, 10:58 pmP/s: seems like u have a huge amount of jealousy towards talented people and prodigies

This post has been edited by icypetals: Apr 24 2008, 11:00 PM

yes bman, stop being an idiot.

Actually, I was illustrating a point. It is not about being jealous towards talented people because I am considered a talent in another industry that has nothing to do with music.

I am just saying, talent is not the only equation that will shape one's future.

You probably won't see my point because as mentioned, you are only 16, and very stubborn, just like I was, but in another industry unrelated to music.

For every example of you digging out a classically trained musician in the comtemporary modern music, there're always other examples that could be used to counter your examples, but this is like participating in a mud wrestling, it's a pointless waste of time.

The truth is, talent alone is never a sole desirable trait when people are considering to work with you or groom you.

who said mud wrestling is a pointless waste of time?
now wheres blacktrix?

preparing for the WCG competition

he going to wi-

uhhh...

in my arrogant opinion...

the thought of comparing modern>classical or classical>modern ...is super retarded...



tell you all what..
why don't both of you , bman and icepetals..meet up and jam together..
bman represent modern
icepetals represent classical ..
both of you can VS each other..like dragonforce video..


i be the judge ( whoever wanna join in also can lah..led zep freak? echo?)
then we see who pawn who ..that will be interesting

Me cannot lah, I am not trained from young, played less than 3 years. Music is not my forte.

You need to get someone more experienced in the modern music.


But if you need someone to write out code for program, then you can call me.

icypetals, you missed a point at the very beginning. nobody claim they can do modern stuffs without going the classical route.

on top of that, you're too young to understand that pop songs and modern stuffs do need a dedicated talent to do that. you know classical doesn't mean you know everything.

i hope you're not going to dig any futher, it'll only end in tears. be humble or else you're not going anywhere.

and bman, although you have a valid point of most stuffs you mentioned but stop bashing the classical music will ya?

gapnap stop pouring petrol into fire lol!

Actually, if people have read me blurting out Eugene Martone vs the Guitarist from Hell, you'll know that I actually much respect musicians who has classical training background.

I am not really bashing the classical prodigies lah, I know they're good. I am also learning up music theory myself, starting with classical theories on music notes/chords/arpeggios etc.

But as I've mentioned, talent, is not the sole factor in deciding one's future. I am merely just humoring the guy since he's dying for a debate and no one wants to get into one with him.

you're definitely on topic mate. this is the thread for person who want to know about further music study after secondary school, as well as careers.

if you have strong passion on music, just go ahead. but mind you, music is not an easy route to jalan. you have to dedicate your whole life for music or else you'll end up being half full half empty. many of my friends who're not really into music, after spending a lot of money finishing the course, end up doing direct sales or quit music. so if you're really serious, consider my advice.

feel free to ask anymore question, like you're interested in classical or contemporary music or music production etc.

Ok, I'm closing this thread for a while until I can clear things up. This is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay getting out of hand.....

-Thread Temporarily Closed-