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 IAFM, CPS, CamPro, All Discussions here.

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sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 10:01 PM

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Here you go..

http://www.proton.com/innovation/rnd/campro.php
sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(yu_wang @ Apr 7 2008, 10:17 PM)
more info here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campro_engine

For those lazy ppl, i'll try to summarize. There are 3 Campro engines out there:
1. Plain old CamPro (all proton cars after Waja and before New Saga)
2. CamPro IAFM (New Saga and latest batch Persona)
3. CamPro CPS (Gen-2 CPS and Waja CPS)

The plain CamPro was supposed to have cam profile switching technology since the very first version, but it was dropped to save cost(?). As a result it had a big ugly torque dip at lower rpms (i.e. no power unless you rev high).

IAFM stands for Intake Air Fuel Module (lol @ i am fat man). I dont know how it works, but basically the torque dip is gone. No need to rev so high, easier to handle in city driving and traffic jams.

CPS is the real Cam Profile Switching technology, which also has the same effect as IAFM. Maybe a little bit more overall power. It comes together with something called VIM (Variable Intake Manifold) but usually it's shortened to CPS only.

Interesingly, if you try to read CamPro CPS in full (no short form) then it sounds like Cam Profile Cam Profile Switching.  blink.gif It should also be noted that none of these are cutting edge technology developed by proton. They exist in many other cars, probably under different names.

Sorry if i made any mistake in my post...cya  icon_rolleyes.gif
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Thats why they doesn't mention Campro CPS, just CPS. Even the emblem at the boot also just CPS 1.6.

QUOTE(athlonxp @ Apr 7 2008, 10:17 PM)
campro = no variable cam, no variable valve, no nothing

iafm = TVIS found on 1st gen 4AGE from AE86 from year 1985  yawn.gif

cps = variable valve lift which dont work. a sophisticated and well designed engine with valve lift tech should make 165hp like B16A. this "new technology" could be found in 1988 EF9 CRX B16A

vim = variable inlet manifold

today is 7/4/2008. phailed
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To be fair, the hp in CPS is low than the older VTEC engine, some are contributed by complying with Euro-4 standard (something about polution etc... sweat.gif ).

sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 10:40 PM

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QUOTE(RCrex @ Apr 7 2008, 10:35 PM)
technology followed far from behind the century eh?
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What to do.. sweat.gif Even CPS they got from Lotus, if develop from scratch.. doh.gif

QUOTE(yu_wang @ Apr 7 2008, 10:37 PM)
Whoops. I stand corrected, thanks.  doh.gif
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Maybe they want to drop the name 'Campro' becoz it already have bad reputation.. whistling.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(yu_wang @ Apr 7 2008, 10:45 PM)
Then again, Gen-2 CPS engine block still says Campro CPS. I have photographic evidence.  whistling.gif
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Same with Waja, but Campro is not mention in car registration.. whistling.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(RCrex @ Apr 7 2008, 10:48 PM)
then what is in the registration?

campur?
o maCAMPRO ?
hehe
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CPS 1.6 only. nod.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 11:54 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 7 2008, 11:47 PM)
btw, rebore the campro block and fit bigger bore piston to increase the displacement lor....
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I prefer changing the hi-cam to a higher one. Can save petrol if kept revving under 4k rpm. icon_idea.gif

QUOTE(aizad02 @ Apr 7 2008, 11:50 PM)
errr...IAFM is external device at the air intake rite?so,is there any chance to put it to normal campro arr??
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I think its possible. hmm.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 7 2008, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(aizad02 @ Apr 7 2008, 11:57 PM)
it tot original cam campro oledi use high cam.or i'm wrong???dat's why campro power only comes at high revs.
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CPS has 2 set of cam, once hit 3.8rpm, it will change to high-cam.
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 07:16 AM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 04:43 AM)
change to highcam can save petrol??..  hmm.gif  hmm.gif
2 sets of cam??... or u mean the cams has 2 profile lobes like vtec??... blink.gif  blink.gif

somehow i dont see any difference in performance during switch over of the cam profile....  doh.gif  doh.gif
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The 2nd cam in CPS is not as 'wild' as VTEC and it also engage early (3.8k) compared to VTEC.
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(farique @ Apr 8 2008, 07:47 AM)
seriously, this is the first time I heard such thing as installing high cam can save petrol. laugh.gif
so, they basically have the secondary cam eh? How's the activation of the higher cam? Is it similar of to the VTEC's?

I thought CPS is something like DVVT, VVTI, etc?  hmm.gif
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CPS got two profile cam (low lift and high lift)... As long as keep revving before the activation point, it still use low lift, thus normal FC. whistling.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 12:19 PM)

then whats the use of cps leh??... jz to cover the torque dip in the dyno chart??..  doh.gif

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VIM cover the torque dip I thinks. Because CPS open earlier than VTEC, it cannot use a wild cam like VTEC. A high lift cam would only give optimum power a high RPM. The higher the RPM, the higher lift is better. VTEC open at 7k (if not mistaken), thus it can utilize higher cam than CPS. High cam (high lift) is useless in low RPM. This is what I understand about cam profile system. Pls correct me if I'm wrong. icon_rolleyes.gif icon_rolleyes.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 03:34 PM)
vtec open at about 5k plus i guess.... 7k almost end of the power graph lor....

campro cps using what ecu??... siemens??... u think anyway in the future someone would take campro cps cams and regrind the higher profile camlobe for better performance??....  hmm.gif  den we can have power jump/increase like vtec or mivec...  drool.gif  drool.gif
u've mistaken VIM for CPS ler...  doh.gif
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Dont know much bout VTEC, but isn't 5k is too low, even MIVEC open at 5.5k.. hmm.gif

Donno what ecu CPS are using, how to know? shocking.gif

I also hope R3 would try to experiment regrind the lobe, which I think is possible icon_idea.gif icon_idea.gif ... But how to change the activation point?

QUOTE(WisePrince @ Apr 8 2008, 05:07 PM)
owh.. really ar? hehe.. y ar? so, what is VIM and what is CPS?
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VIM are commonly mistaken because CPS and VIM both are usually referred as CPS only.. rclxub.gif rclxub.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(athlonxp @ Apr 8 2008, 07:08 PM)
vim at low end? cps at high end? proton website tell u this of course..but real life it is not like this

CPS is not high peformance engine and not fuel economical engine..then wat is this engine good at? boat anchor perhaps.. thumbup.gif

if cps isnt mean for fuel economy..why should proton make something that is not economical and put it in a low cost everyday family saloon?
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I've managed to get average 18cent/km with highway cruising at 140km/h (CPS engage) and often rev till 7k rpm.. I've notice that by cruising at 120km/h and less revving above 4k rpm, I've managed to get 16cent/km. My previous ride, Saga LMST also give me 16cent/km for 120km/h cruising. whistling.gif

IMHO, Gen.2 and Waja is not a low cost family car. Saga is.

Gen.2=sporty
Waja=premium saloon

icon_rolleyes.gif

sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(cloudstrife07 @ Apr 8 2008, 07:33 PM)
yeah like i mentioned up there. sometimes THEORY can't be use in REAL LIFE situation, hence need hands-on testings. brows.gif
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I don't think at low rev CPS can perform as efficient as VVT system as the latter varies the timing across the RPM range. But the best I think is i-Vtec where the lift is varies across the RPM range and VVT-L system (variable valve timing + lift) . notworthy.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 07:54 PM

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QUOTE(tcting @ Apr 8 2008, 07:51 PM)
Someone with CPS please give comments...
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Already have.. have uploaded 0-175 sprint video in Waja CPS thread an LYN top speed thread. whistling.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 09:11 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 08:57 PM)
VIM = variable intake manifold

why CPS and IAFM/VIM phails??... VIM phails because there isnt any major difference manipulating the intake length path... CPS phails because the higher cam profile isnt as great/powerful/high as vtec or mivec.....


wait, i dont think it is necessary since there isnt any significant switchover between both cam profile... haha...  laugh.gif

CPS and vvt is totally different thing lah... vvt/dvvt/vvti all those manipulates the cam timing (advance or retard according to driving condition/style)... while cps the technology of the valvetrain, similar to vtec or mivec....
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I dont think VIM/IAFM phailed since it removed the torque dip in Campro. I also don't think CPS phailed although it maybe not as great as VTEC. At least it allows me to get 0-100km/h approx at 10sec and to 175km/h in 35sec without any modification. thumbup.gif

Both 'valve timing' and 'lift' has its own advantage and disadvantage. Thats why I said that VVT-L is better since it has both. Valve timing at low rev and lift at high rev. I-Vtec uses solenoid to control the valve lift, giving it variable lift. CPS uses VIM and lift to produce a 3 stage engine operation.
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 09:25 PM)
okla... dont say it fail la... say it incomplete.... isnt outstanding....
vtec engines took years and millions of money to improve its technology... we'll see how cps will fair in the future... rolleyes.gif
yea... jz like malaysia football.... didnt lose 10-0 consider ok lor.... lost 2-0 considered win as well... doh.gif  doh.gif
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True2.. CPS can't be considered as a perfect engine, more like a decent engine only. It actually quite challenging to do R&D for Campro as the cost is high and total sell volume is quite low compared with other engine. Thats why they use CPS from Lotus.

About the torque dip, it is a problem that should exist in the fist place until someone decided to release the Campro without the cam profile system. sweat.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 09:49 PM

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QUOTE(Max @ Apr 8 2008, 09:45 PM)
how the cps operate?
i mean, like vtec it uses rocker arm n solenoid to allow oil pressure engage the high lift rocker arm.

got any cps cross/cut away section of engine/head ar?
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No idea.. interested to know also. tongue.gif

Found this.. but cannot understand oso rclxub.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkE6oQnCuWI&feature=related

This post has been edited by sphiroth: Apr 8 2008, 10:02 PM
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(imperialrealcs @ Apr 8 2008, 10:30 PM)

2 set of cam since it is DOHC, not because it is CPS..
they have 2 sets of lobe on 1 camshaft

CPS is considered a VVT system as it varies the valve timing but not continously..
VVTL-i has been phased out due to bad emission it make..
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Ooo.. So the correct one is 2 sets of lobe on 1 camshaft, not 2 cam sets. notworthy.gif

Isn't CPS varies the lift, not the timing? rclxub.gif
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 11:36 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 11:18 PM)
vr agree.... but still disappointed on campro cps.... hope things will improve in later campro cps batch.... icon_rolleyes.gif

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Care to clarify? whistling.gif

This post has been edited by sphiroth: Apr 8 2008, 11:37 PM
sphiroth
post Apr 8 2008, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(the_catacombs @ Apr 8 2008, 11:41 PM)
since it utilises high cam profile at higher rpm like vtec or mivec, why not make it a little wilder and produce more horsepower??... hmm.gif
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Since petrol is getting pricier everyday.. laugh.gif And the reliability issue. sweat.gif

This post has been edited by sphiroth: Apr 8 2008, 11:47 PM

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